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Interesting that Wilfred Zaha the Crystal Palace striker, has made a stand against ''taking the knee''. Zaha said he will not take the knee now and, that he believes football should move on from this ''degrading anti racism protest''. 

I wonder who will follow him and no longer take the knee. Will the FA make a statement on this subject I wonder ? 

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It was always ridiculous, should players take the curtsy before a match to protest against sexism, or strike a pose to support LGTB etc. etc. etc.?

We all know (or should do by now) that discrimination is wrong, but we don’t need to carry a placard around with us to prove it! Spend the time and effort on sanctions (legal or otherwise) against transgressors, on the pitch or the terraces and let’s get on with the game!

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2 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

It was always ridiculous, should players take the curtsy before a match to protest against sexism, or strike a pose to support LGTB etc. etc. etc.?

We all know (or should do by now) that discrimination is wrong, but we don’t need to carry a placard around with us to prove it! Spend the time and effort on sanctions (legal or otherwise) against transgressors, on the pitch or the terraces and let’s get on with the game!

I see other sports have split divisions on taking 'the knee' ,eg. Rugby Union, Formula 1--Its so embarrassing to see everyone down including Managers ,Police officers etc. -- Its on borrowed time as I can not see it continuing when the crowds are back with their ridicule-The Racism issue is showing a more BLM protest and The F A will have to demonstrate a more pro active approach to this problem.

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1 hour ago, Mike Odgers said:

I see other sports have split divisions on taking 'the knee' ,eg. Rugby Union, Formula 1--Its so embarrassing to see everyone down including Managers ,Police officers etc. -- Its on borrowed time as I can not see it continuing when the crowds are back with their ridicule-The Racism issue is showing a more BLM protest and The F A will have to demonstrate a more pro active approach to this problem.

The Metropolitan Police Commissioner has said that police officers shall not 'take the knee'. The Army, Navy and RAF have also been told not to 'take the knee'. 

AFC Bournemouth's captain Steve Cook announced today, that Bournemouth's playing squad had all agreed not to continue taking the knee. Liverpool and Everton players didn't tonight. It will be interesting to see if Crystal Palace players follow Zaha's cue on Monday night. 

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36 minutes ago, Keith B said:

The Metropolitan Police Commissioner has said that police officers shall not 'take the knee'. The Army, Navy and RAF have also been told not to 'take the knee'. 

AFC Bournemouth's captain Steve Cook announced today, that Bournemouth's playing squad had all agreed not to continue taking the knee. Liverpool and Everton players didn't tonight. It will be interesting to see if Crystal Palace players follow Zaha's cue on Monday night. 

Liverpool and Everton players did take the knee didn't they? 

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Taking the knee is purely a symbolic gesture and will never achieve anything.

Racism will never go away as it comes from all sectors of life, it is not just one way.

When the crowds return racism will as well, it runs through the fabric of society all across the world.

The modern world is all about diversity and when this happens and cultures mix they also clash on their beliefs. 

Can you really be an Englishman in England anymore?

When in Rome do as the Roman's do is very apt today but is not followed, but would probably solve a few problems. 

Diversification is fine but should never be practiced to today's level, it will only create division and has done so.

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10 hours ago, St Darren said:

Liverpool and Everton players did take the knee didn't they? 

Yes, you're right Darren - my mistake, typing and talking to my daughter on the phone at the same time. 

10 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Taking the knee is purely a symbolic gesture and will never achieve anything.

Racism will never go away as it comes from all sectors of life, it is not just one way.

When the crowds return racism will as well, it runs through the fabric of society all across the world.

The modern world is all about diversity and when this happens and cultures mix they also clash on their beliefs. 

Can you really be an Englishman in England anymore?

When in Rome do as the Roman's do is very apt today but is not followed, but would probably solve a few problems. 

Diversification is fine but should never be practiced to today's level, it will only create division and has done so.

Very profound older and spot on as usual 🙂.

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Older asked the question - can you really be an Englishman in England anymore ?

So, who or what is an Englishman today. Has there ever been such a person ? Mixed blood would suggest not perhaps. In my book you don't become English just because you have lived in England for so many years. Recently (last year ?) a premier league footballer stated his frustration touching on this subject - saying surely you had to be born and bread in this country of English parents to play for England. Whilst I agree with that sentiment, it then comes back to the question - with so much mixed blood, can there be a true Englishman ?

A question for the experts and scientists I guess. It just seems wrong somehow that - as an example, you may have been born and bread in New Zealand of Maori parents but, because your grandmother once removed was English or Irish - you are able to play for England or Ireland at football, rugby or whatever. 

This is getting a bit deep. See what lockdown has been and done now ! ! !    😐  Please, no offence meant to the Maori peoples either - just used as an example.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Keith B said:

Older asked the question - can you really be an Englishman in England anymore ?

So, who or what is an Englishman today. Has there ever been such a person ? Mixed blood would suggest not perhaps. In my book you don't become English just because you have lived in England for so many years. Recently (last year ?) a premier league footballer stated his frustration touching on this subject - saying surely you had to be born and bread in this country of English parents to play for England. Whilst I agree with that sentiment, it then comes back to the question - with so much mixed blood, can there be a true Englishman ?

A question for the experts and scientists I guess. It just seems wrong somehow that - as an example, you may have been born and bread in New Zealand of Maori parents but, because your grandmother once removed was English or Irish - you are able to play for England or Ireland at football, rugby or whatever. 

This is getting a bit deep. See what lockdown has been and done now ! ! !    😐  Please, no offence meant to the Maori peoples either - just used as an example.

 

 

Well Keith genealogy would show a multitude of races in probably all of us across the world, but to be born here would be the first step to being an Englishman/woman.

Then comes practicing  the English way of life and values, we are exceptionally tolerant, polite and understanding with a passion for helping everyone, and a big dollop of respect for all.

Then you are a archetypal Englishman.

But most of that is slowly disappearing due to over diversificati of our society values.

I have had racism directed at myself four times in my life in my own country, once by a west Indian, once by a couple of black fella's,  once by an Irishman and finally by a south African.

Ridiculous, they have no english values at all and they live in my country!

How disappointing is that(?)

The point you make regarding who you are eligible to play for was introduced to strengthen international football teams so that they could give some semblance to being able to compete in the competitions that they were plainly not good enough to be in.

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20 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

It was always ridiculous, should players take the curtsy before a match to protest against sexism, or strike a pose to support LGTB etc. etc. etc.?

We all know (or should do by now) that discrimination is wrong, but we don’t need to carry a placard around with us to prove it! Spend the time and effort on sanctions (legal or otherwise) against transgressors, on the pitch or the terraces and let’s get on with the game!

Taking the knee has become just as pointless and as much a part of virtual signalling as rainbow boot laces once a season. The FA, Premier League and elements of print and social media are variously loose and enabling of racism in football. Witness the bile thrown at the likes of Marcus Rashford and Raheem Sterling on social media, and the "nudge, nudge, he's a young black man from an underprivileged background, look at how many houses and cars he has" stories that pop up in certain tabloids. Contrast that for example with the media treatment of Man City's Phil Foden. Kneeling on the pitch and bowing your head before a game does nothing to address this.

Both Rashford, Sterling and other young black men (Tyrone Mings is another) are young, articulate, socially minded and yes, incredibly wealthy, with a huge social media reach who do not need our traditional press outlets, and do not play by their rules. Some are having trouble accepting this.

 

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I just wish British people would speak English and not the American version .

Some interesting points on here . I agree that we are largely a tolerant nation  but we have our faults . I think we are a long way ahead of some countries in this respect  when you consider the situation in some Middle Eastern countries  where pure hatred exists between tribes  or divisions  between the same nationality , and has done so for generations with no logic reason .

There will always be a number of people  who dislike or hate people of another colour or . Many highlight their ignorance by  stating " they should go back where they come from "  and the subject  was born in Norwich . Sadly anti social media and forums have given many of those people a platform to air those views anonymously . Several young people have committed   suicide over the abuse they have suffered  on these medias and it has been ignored . Now the abuse has been directed at young sportsmen there is an outcry , quite rightly in my opinion , but surly this  abuse should have been stopped long ago . I don't think that a great deal will be done about this abuse , social media is now too powerful , the use of it is almost an illness .

Sorry to bore you , I've no excuse to be on here today , the weather is warm and sunny , but I'll give you an example of our tolerance on racial issues in this country . During World War 2  many thousand American airmen were stationed in East Anglia  , some of the air base crew were black , they were segregated on the base , weren't allowed to eat , worship or sleep  in the same areas as the white Americans . In the evenings they were shipped out to their own camps and didn't fraternize with the white Americans . Many of them went out in the evenings to the local pubs and cinemas and to their amazement were accepted by the East Anglians , who paid no regard to their colour and treated them as equals , something that many of them had never experienced before . This was 70 odd years ago in an area ie. Suffolk and Norfolk where the inhabitants were regarded as backward . According to many Southerners we still are .

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11 minutes ago, fenman said:

Some interesting points on here . I agree that we are largely a tolerant nation  but we have our faults . I think we are a long way ahead of some countries in this respect  when you consider the situation in some Middle Eastern countries  where pure hatred exists between tribes  or divisions  between the same nationality , and has done so for generations with no logic reason

Don't go to Wales then Fenman,  I've been there twice and my god certain sections of Wales do not like the English,  not quite hatred but an animosity to be sure! 

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3 hours ago, fenman said:

I just wish British people would speak English and not the American version .

Some interesting points on here . I agree that we are largely a tolerant nation  but we have our faults . I think we are a long way ahead of some countries in this respect  when you consider the situation in some Middle Eastern countries  where pure hatred exists between tribes  or divisions  between the same nationality , and has done so for generations with no logic reason .

There will always be a number of people  who dislike or hate people of another colour or . Many highlight their ignorance by  stating " they should go back where they come from "  and the subject  was born in Norwich . Sadly anti social media and forums have given many of those people a platform to air those views anonymously . Several young people have committed   suicide over the abuse they have suffered  on these medias and it has been ignored . Now the abuse has been directed at young sportsmen there is an outcry , quite rightly in my opinion , but surly this  abuse should have been stopped long ago . I don't think that a great deal will be done about this abuse , social media is now too powerful , the use of it is almost an illness .

Sorry to bore you , I've no excuse to be on here today , the weather is warm and sunny , but I'll give you an example of our tolerance on racial issues in this country . During World War 2  many thousand American airmen were stationed in East Anglia  , some of the air base crew were black , they were segregated on the base , weren't allowed to eat , worship or sleep  in the same areas as the white Americans . In the evenings they were shipped out to their own camps and didn't fraternize with the white Americans . Many of them went out in the evenings to the local pubs and cinemas and to their amazement were accepted by the East Anglians , who paid no regard to their colour and treated them as equals , something that many of them had never experienced before . This was 70 odd years ago in an area ie. Suffolk and Norfolk where the inhabitants were regarded as backward . According to many Southerners we still are .

During the 1960's whilst at sea with the P&O Line, we visited as our usual ports of call as we crisscrossed the world, South African locations. Before docking at Cape Town, East London or Durban, a leaflet was put through every crew and passenger cabin door, explaining the do's and don'ts of living in South Africa. Whites were kept apart totally from blacks. Some shops were white only and others for blacks. In town, busses were blacks down stairs and whites upstairs. Out of town blacks and whites had their own busses. The post office in Cape Town was one half whites, the other blacks. 

It was against the law, punishable by imprisonment, for a white man to date or marry a black woman. Also, it was against the law for a white man to have sexual intercourse with a black woman. No one broke these laws - if you were to stray into a blacks only bar - you would be shouted out by the occupants. You had to see it to believe it.

Apartheid is a poisonous and cruel law to live under - it promotes hatred on both sides. I believe it's different in South Africa now - I haven't been back since 1971 so I don't really know. I suspect it's not changed a lot . . . depending where you go.

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23 hours ago, Keith B said:

Well this far there's not been much take up/support for Wilfred Zaha's stand (no pun) against taking the knee. It will be interesting to see what happens tonight at the Brighton v Palace game.  

So - they all took the knee. I suppose had some remained standing, they would/might have been seen by some as racist. This is now the problem - people who may have felt the same as Wilfred Zaha will be confused as to what to do.   

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Once you’ve made a stand you’ve got to stick with it or you’ll be seen as woolly minded. Enough sports and sportspeople have made their opinions on discrimination clear without the need to publicly discriminate between the causes you support, be it racism, sexism, homophobia or any other ism’s and the like.

Enough is enough, the point has been proved, I think it’s safe to get off the knee and go for a Hakka, that’ll wind up the players, the opposition and the fans. Just tell everyone that it’s a pan-phobia support stance!

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