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Liverpool - their year


ah reckon so
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At the start of this season there were a lot of posts on this site on how Rafa was a god because he had gotten them to a 2nd champions league final in 3 years and that this would be their year ( i have been hearing this for nearly 5 years now). They would win the Premiership by a record amount of points win the FA cup and also destroy everyone in europe and 1 joker even had the front to claim that torres and Crouch would score 75 goals between them.

I pointed out at the time that they were out of all domestic competitions by the end of January so could prepare better for the champions league - this was shouted down as people accused me of being bitter and jealous because i am a Man United supporter.

Now here we are in the middle of february 1 year on and the mighty Liverpool are out of the carling cup, out of the F.A cup at the hands of Barnsley having only just squeezed past footballing giants such as Luton & Havant and Waterlooville, they are a country mile off the leaders of the premiership. Which means their only focus is now the Champions league and if you are not careful you might need to win it in order to qualify for it next year as the mighty Liverpool seem to have been overtaken by the likes of Everton & Villa.

In my humble opinion if you took Gerrard (who is a world class player and leader) and Torres out of that side you would be left with a mid table team, most of these players are Rafa's signings & today in the papers he is asking for more time which equals more money.

but don't worry all you scousers and plastic scousers out there i'm sure next year will be your year

yeah right!!!!!!!!! :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

Please give Rafa a new 5 year contract it would be the best present a United fan could get

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Guest Terrier Tom

It has been liverpool's year the last eighteen or so!

But its easier to remember the past, 5 times, blah etc. Funny how you don't hear United banging on about 8 Premier League title or however many they have.

I think Liverpool would be better off selling Hollywood-Ball-Gerrard anyway, ala Arsenal and Thierry Henry.

Still good to see the four biggest teams in England in the top four positons right now :thumbsup: Up the blues.

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It has been liverpool's year the last eighteen or so!

But its easier to remember the past, 5 times, blah etc. Funny how you don't hear United banging on about 8 Premier League title or however many they have.

I think Liverpool would be better off selling Hollywood-Ball-Gerrard anyway, ala Arsenal and Thierry Henry.

Still good to see the four biggest teams in England in the top four positons right now :thumbsup: Up the blues.

Thats gotta hurt st darren :P

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And take Rooney and Ronaldo out of your side, and what you got left????

this year has been poor, no doubt about that, but you lot aint won anything yet!!

Well that question was half answered at the weekend St Darren. They took Ronaldo, Tevez, Giggs and Scholes out of the side and look what happened. Although I will say that ALOT of Man Utd's "big wins" over the last couple of seasons (Roma is the main one I can think of), it has been Michael Carrick that has been the stand out player.

His work is so important, his passing is sublime and yet he he never seems to get any recognition.

I'm not totally sure that there was any need for this topic (or baiting session) to be posted BUT there's no reason we shouldn't enjoy it. Benitez HAS TO GO, his stupid rotation policy has become nothing more than him trying to prove that it works. The unfortunate thing is that all he's achieving is loss of credibility for the club and the "hub cap steelers" that pay to watch them each week.

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Guest Terrier Tom

Lucky Liverpool were any good around 20 or 30 years ago then given their recent glut of trophies, erm.

As per usual, a thread about Liverpool this season turned into a discussion about their 'glorious' past.

NERVE > TOUCHED :clapper::clapper:

Still, I thought 2-1 at home To Barnsley wasn't a bad result for Liverpool. I expected at least 3 or 4.

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I agree Liverpool have had a crap season this year but I'm not just talking 20-30 years ago. It would be interesting to see who has won the most trophies since the turn of the millenium. I'm sure there are some statto's that could provide that information!

These may help you out Gareth?. The 1st link has the answer to ALL your questions and the second link is a more simple one.

http://www.krysstal.com/sincetrophy.html

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/front...03180233AA05aK8

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Guest crosser

(so called) Big 4 since 2000

Arsenal - 2 Premier League, 3 FA Cup, 1 League Cup, = 6 Trophies

Chelsea - 2 Premier League, 2 FA Cup, 2 League Cup = 6 Trophies

Liverpool - 1 European Cup, 1 UEFA Cup, 2 FA Cup, 2 League Cup, = 6 Trophies

Man Utd - 3 Premier League, 1 FA Cup, 1 League Cup, = 5 Trophies

beat me too it coopsie but i don't count charity/community shields or SUPERCUPS

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Fergie got given time, 4 years before first trophy, 7 years before first league championship, 13 years before first European Cup

If only chairmen/owners had more patience with managers in this day and age

:clapper: .. Absolutely Darren. Even the blue half of Liverpool is seeing the advantages of a bit of patience and loyalty now. I'm sure that you'll remember that many Toffee supporters were calling for Moyes's head around 6 months into his tenure?. He's doing a great job with what he has and deserves alot of credit for that.

The thing is though Darren, Liverpool seem further away from the title than when Rafa took over and hasn't he spent something like £150million (that's a guess). I personally think that he's turning your club into a laughing stock. Scraped past Havant & Waterlooville in the FA Cup and eventually got knocked out by the mighty Barnsley who, if you think like an Ar5ena1 fan, had their reserve team out.

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everyone goes on about the money he has spent, yes, he has spent money, but he's also got money back for players.

What Benitez has only been allowed to do once is, spend big on one player, when I say big, I mean over £15m that UTD do willy nilly on defenders and midfielders, we've bought Torres who's class. We should have signed Mascherano by now as well if there wasn't so many stumblers!

But what Benitez has done is bought numerous players for the money he's had. Utd would spend £60m on two players, if Benitez was given £60m, he'd be told to get at least 6 players for that money, therefore we've not been allowed to compete at the top end of the market.

Off the field problems need to be sorted out, there's so much crap being said by all supporters about who's best for what and all this lot. What the club need, is someone who's in charge who has the right interests of the club there. The biggest man in the club should be the manager, Fergie's the biggest at Utd, Wenger's biggest at Arsenal now, Liverpool need to get to that level.

I feel Benitez if given time will get it right, there's talk today about O'Neill, I think that would be the worst thing that could happen!

oh yeah, and we need to get a decent coach in, we've been shite since Pako left

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I see what you're getting at bud But with all his ins and outs has he actually improved on what Houllier had??. You certainly don't seem to be any closer to the league than when Houllier was there and when you consider that's why he got the sack, he perhaps feels somewhat hard done by?. Yes I know you had the Champions league win and the FA Cup but there was ALOT of fortune involved in those victories.

I'm not knocking your club Darren, Being a Spurs fan I'm hardly in a position to do so am I. I'm just saying that I seriously don't think Rafa has a clue how to win the league and his stupid rotation policy is surely a major reason for the lack of domestic challenging?.

You don't see any of the other top 3 managers changing too much unless it's totally necessary or it's perhaps the League Cup. They have all won the league and FA cup in recent history and it's probably that continuity and stability that is the reason for their success and your downfall. How can any TEAM be expected to win anything if they are not given the opportunity to gell and become a unit??.

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I seriously don't think Rafa has a clue how to win the league and his stupid rotation policy is surely a major reason for the lack of domestic challenging?.

You don't see any of the other top 3 managers changing too much unless it's totally necessary or it's perhaps the League Cup. They have all won the league and FA cup in recent history and it's probably that continuity and stability that is the reason for their success and your downfall. How can any TEAM be expected to win anything if they are not given the opportunity to gell and become a unit??.

But Coopsie (and anybody else who thinks this), this idea has one big problem: it isn't true. In 2006/07 Fergie made 118 changes to his line-ups over the course of the season, or 3.11 a game. How 'bout Mourinho? In 2005/06 he made 118 changes, or 3.11 a game. So where's Benitez fit? In 2006/07 he made 118 changes (that's 3.11 per match, btw) and in 2005/06 he went crazy and made 119 changes (for a staggering 3.13 changes on average).

No player for ManU or Chelsea started as high a percentage of matches as did Gerrard (92%), Carragher (89%) or Reina (92%). Nobody at ManU started more than 87%. Ferguson used 25 players over the course of the season and Benitez used 26 -- hardly any real difference.

Now Benitez's rotation rate was higher in Cup competitions, but given his high success rate there, that doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

The days of 13 or 14 players getting all the work are over!

Houllier never had to compete with the Russian mafia's money, either -- Liverpool has hardly been standing still, but the top few clubs have also continued to get better. If Rafa is no closer to winning the league, that doesn't mean his team isn't actually better than before. Strange, I know.

I wonder if the tenor of this thread will change now that Rafa's gotten it right in the first leg against Inter!

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I seriously don't think Rafa has a clue how to win the league and his stupid rotation policy is surely a major reason for the lack of domestic challenging?.

You don't see any of the other top 3 managers changing too much unless it's totally necessary or it's perhaps the League Cup. They have all won the league and FA cup in recent history and it's probably that continuity and stability that is the reason for their success and your downfall. How can any TEAM be expected to win anything if they are not given the opportunity to gell and become a unit??.

I wonder if the tenor of this thread will change now that Rafa's gotten it right in the first leg against Inter!

Thanks to a diving Spaniard, a dosile ref and a fair amount of luck (although they should have had a penalty after Viera's handball, what was the linesman doing??). I mean come on, how easily did Torres go down?. Then to see him hold two fingers up to the referee for the second yellow and then seeing the camera pan around to show Benitez doing exactly the same thing was disgraceful.

When will this genius Spanish manager see that Liverpool are twice the team when Crouch is playing?..Don't get me wrong, it WAS a pretty good performance by the reds, they played really well (Pennant and Crouch should have started because before Pennant came on,Liverpool couldn't have crossed their fingers, let alone the ball). BUT why do these great victories that live on in every Liverpool supporters memory ONLY happen in the Champions League?. I bet that it will be back to the same rubbish again in the league on saturday?.

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xembla

the problem isn't just his rotation policy it is the quality of the players he is rotating, players like vorinin (wrong spelling probably, sorry), kuyt, crouch, pennent are simply not good enough.

That is not just Liverpool bashing it is the truth, they do not have the quality to be Liverpool players.

i know you will come on and disagree with me because you are defending your club but anyone else other than a blinkered Liverpool fan will tell you the same thing, apart from Torres & Reina the the only other Liverpool player that would get into any other team in the top 4 is Gerrard who he inherited

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xembla

the problem isn't just his rotation policy it is the quality of the players he is rotating, players like vorinin (wrong spelling probably, sorry), kuyt, crouch, pennent are simply not good enough.

That is not just Liverpool bashing it is the truth, they do not have the quality to be Liverpool players.

i know you will come on and disagree with me because you are defending your club but anyone else other than a blinkered Liverpool fan will tell you the same thing, apart from Torres & Reina the the only other Liverpool player that would get into any other team in the top 4 is Gerrard who he inherited

I agree with all that mate, except the bit about Crouch. Over and over again he has come onto the pitch and changed the whole outlook of the performance and result. Last night Liverpool looked as though they didn't have a clue and with 5 minutes to go, Rafa was probably on his way out. However, Pennant's crossing and Crouches presence added a whole new dimension and Inter simply could not handle it and Liverpool ended up with what could be a priceless 2 goal cushion?.

The players on the whole are not anywhere near the quality of the other big clubs and the only other one I would choose who you have not mentioned above as a class act is Mascherano. The thing is , are the club going to shell out the £17million to secure his services?. One thing I do know is that if Carrick is worth £18million and Hargreaves is worth £19million, then Mascherano would be a snip at £17million IN MY OPINION.

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this site is all about opinions Coopsie

As you have already pointed out along the line Carrick doesn't get the recognition he deserves as i think he was instrumental in us winning the premiership last season so although i thought he was expensive at the time i think he is worth his weight in gold.

Also without wanting to cause an argument I cannot believe for 1 minute that you would replace Berbatov or keane for the hapless Crouch, ok i agree last night he came on and caused confusion but that was by almost falling over when the cross by-passed him and landed at kuyt's feet (who then scored but only by virtue of a huge deflection) and apart from that one cross Pennent did nothing whatsoever. It was Gerrard once again who carried them through.

Also Crouch was guilty of missing 3 or 4 guilt edged chances agains't Barnsley which if converted would have seen them through comfortably. (am i wrong st darren, i don't think i am)

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You have a point buddy. As for replacing Keane or Berbatov with Crouch, well all I can do is contain my laughter and understand 100% what you are saying.

I'm glad you agree with me about Carrick, the guy IS class and although at £18million he was apparantly overpriced, if you consider he was 23 when you signed him, £18million for a player of his quality who could last 10 years as an investment is a relative steal.

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RE: the diving Spaniard -- true it was a little ticky-tacky (a little, shall we say Iberian) but a player on a yellow anyway has got to know to be careful and that the opposition will be looking for ways to jam him up.

RE: the quality of players -- I actually agree that the players Rafa has to use are not the quality up and down the line-up of a ManU, Chelsea, or Arsenal (I'll be dead in the cold, hard ground before I say that about Everton or Aston Villa, though). But that's not necessarily Rafa's fault. Once again, it comes back to buying power -- Chelski have it, ManUre are a decade ahead of everybody else in terms of merchandising, franchising, ticket sales, etc. Until Torres, Liverpool's record signing was what ManU averaged on their most frequent 11. Rafa has tried to get more expensive/higher quality players -- like G. Heinze, Simao -- but it hasn't worked out, usually down to money. (And Wenger has had years to build his youth system and network.)

Mascherano is a deal, and I'm sure they'll close any day now. Crouch is also one of their best players, and I tend to resent Rafa the most when Crouch isn't in the picture. Crouchy and Pennant made the difference when they came on against Inter.

As for someone like Voronin, he was never going to be the Second Coming of Robbie Fowler and he's likely on his way out anyway.

But this season has also been undermined by a lot of off the pitch distraction. And don't forget that one of our best backs has been out nearly the whole season; Agger could walk onto most Premiership clubs.

Reina, Agger, Carragher, Arbeloa, Gerrard, Mascherano, Benayoun, Pennant, Babel, Torres, Crouch, Alonso, Riise, Finnan, Kuyt -- that's a group that could do the job, I have to believe.

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