Interesting

[Paul]

Slowly getting there. The return of the rain has helped bring the pitch back to life. The cylinder mower needed work on the belt. Now were cutting well again. Got 8 bags of fertiliser to go down. Will do that with some decent rain forcast. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Slowly getting there. The return of the rain has helped bring the pitch back to life. The cylinder mower needed work on the belt. Now were cutting well again. Got 8 bags of fertiliser to go down. Will do that with some decent rain forcast. 

Looking good Paul. 

If you change your belts to kevlar you won't need to adjust them again, no stretch in them.

You can get them bespoke if you cant find your size...but...they're not cheap.

[Bruegel the Elder]

1 hour ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Looking good Paul. 

If you change your belts to kevlar you won't need to adjust them again, no stretch in them.

You can get them bespoke if you cant find your size...but...they're not cheap.

They may not be cheap, but if you’re attacked by an armed band of brigands while cutting the grass at least you’ll know that your belt will survive unscathed!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

2 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

They may not be cheap, but if you’re attacked by an armed band of brigands while cutting the grass at least you’ll know that your belt will survive unscathed!

You on the beer again Bruegel (?)

Bit the bullet again today and scarified against the pattern as well...dramatic as it was only set to use the back row of tines.

If I had a window of opportunity I'd do the whole pitch several times, but a good result with only one pass.

I'll wait now to see the recovery period for the grass.

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

The finished result.

Only did 2 yards inside and 2 yards outside the touchline to test the water.

 

[Bruegel the Elder]

54 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

You on the beer again Bruegel (?)

 

 

Of course Older, what else is there to do while shielding! It’s just that in a previous existence I had to wear a Kevlar jacket and it was extremely hot and uncomfortable, but it certainly does the job. As you say it is stiff and robust and in my fantasy scenario it would  be the only bit of mower left intact!

Back to your pitch, I am constantly amazed at the amount of hard work you and your colleagues put to produce the perfect playing surface and the knowledge and experience involved, only for twenty-two hooligans (and a referee) to come along and wreck it. A thankless task, a real modern day Sisyphus (only without the preceding crime)!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Of course Older, what else is there to do while shielding! It’s just that in a previous existence I had to wear a Kevlar jacket and it was extremely hot and uncomfortable, but it certainly does the job. As you say it is stiff and robust and in my fantasy scenario it would  be the only bit of mower left intact!

Back to your pitch, I am constantly amazed at the amount of hard work you and your colleagues put to produce the perfect playing surface and the knowledge and experience involved, only for twenty-two hooligans (and a referee) to come along and wreck it. A thankless task, a real modern day Sisyphus (only without the preceding crime)!

Had to look that up Bruegel...you Boris quoting all this stuff! 

Yes it can (is) repetitive...but we love it.

[Bruegel the Elder]

9 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Had to look that up Bruegel...you Boris quoting all this stuff! 

Yes it can (is) repetitive...but we love it.

YOU ABJECT SWINE! what an insult! Almost as bad as being called a Dominic C! Dave Deacon ought to have you excluded for using the B word about a fellow forum user! 

[Paul]

Have a look at the effect the decent fertiliser ive got is capable of doing. Used a spreader on a few areas and look at the colour its changed it to. And its growing well to. Left a few tracks but the test worked. Now to do the whole pitch. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

6 minutes ago, Paul said:

Have a look at the effect the decent fertiliser ive got is capable of doing. Used a spreader on a few areas and look at the colour its changed it to. And its growing well to. Left a few tracks but the test worked. Now to do the whole pitch. 

Looks nice there buddy...what you using ?

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

I've got a few bags of 3.12.12 waiting to go on asap and the vertidrain booked for the end of the month.

I'm in the process of reducing the amount of grass on the pitch at the moment and have started to reverse the pattern to try and reduce the length of the stolons on the pitch as well. 

14 games I think in about 40 odd days had taken its toll with the pitch looking a bit battered at this time, have trained on it this year as well, with another friendly tomorrow and a game Saturday! so it's looking a bit sorry for itself at this time!

But down to one game a week soon thank god.

[Paul]

Ill get the exact stuff pictured tomorrow. Im waiting to put it on when i know we will have a good couple days of rain to wash it in. Should look great once thats done. 

Goal mouths already taking a battering. Think weve had around 14 home friendlies between 1st and 2nds and then training at times. Not enough rain to really help it recover. 

Now for a couple cuts before Saturday and get it stripped back up again. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

5 brushes and 3 cuts against the pattern is taking its toll now...stolons cut off and turning the pitch brown!

Bit of rain, fertiliser and a vertidrain plus back into pattern should put the pitch back to something like it.

The pattern is now weak as it has been reversed, normally to change a strong pattern would be a few weeks. 

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Showing the stolons cut off and a closer look to show them standing up, slight signs of them tillering from lower down. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

8 brushes and cuts against the pattern showing up now with hardly any pattern visible. 

 

A big difference to a month or so ago, back  to pattern next week with a bit of fertiliser with the rain forecast,  and the vertidrain in 10 days time will/should bring it back to life.

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Bit the bullet with the forecast and put down 5 bags of 3.12.12. today, caught a nice 2 or 3 showers which should be enough to stop any chemical burn if the sun comes out...it just did!

Low nitrogen this time of year as too much will stop the plant from pushing root and general tillering.

One wing has been left for next week to try a couple of bags of slow release fertiliser for the first time! I will watch that like a hawk as it has 22% nitrogen in it...we'll see how that goes for sure.

Vertidraining booked for Monday...happy days to that after the nice bit of rain we've had the last couple of days, perfect timing with the fertiliser as the grass will now have plenty of soil and air spaces to grow into. 

 

 

[Mrgreen]

The fertility experiment should be interesting. 22% over a prolonged period may prove more beneficial than a quick hit of 3%. What P and K is in the slow release compared to the 12 12.

What tine size have you opted for, 19mm or twice as many 13mm. The 19’s are capable of going deeper and can heave if required but are nearly 100mm apart. Where as the 13mm are a little less capable but it’s possible to get a 50mm square pattern. No right or wrong way.

My personal preference is, as an annual event go with 19mm, but as regular maintenance twice as many holes of a lesser diameter is the way to go.

Decisions decisions!!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Dont know the full analysis Mrgreen, its being supplied by the contractor. 

Going to be interesting to see if this stuff works though.

Also tine size I suspect will be 13mm as he's coming to us after vertidraining a cricket ground.

5% of heave will do me at this time and I'm with you on the tines, 19mm would always be my preference. 

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

After all that rain the prills are still showing strong and still quite solid...that's quality fertiliser and will work for a good length of time. 

 

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Nice lump of grass kicked out today showing the problem with the stolons, all lying one way and not rooting as the grass is too thick so they grow up looking for light (phototropic response)

I will eventually heavily verticut them to shorten them and thin the sward so they have more light and be able to keep contact with the soil to encourage root development from the stolon.

Will also at the end of season start to introduce rye grass into the sward to strengthen it, rye being a clump forming grass and stronger rooting will enhance the finish of  the surface. 

 

[Ieuan Gregory]

put down 8 bags slow release (3 month) 15-10-16 last Wednesday, worked well last winter with all the rain, so try again this year, lasted well into February this year. Interested to see your comparison in a couple of months Dave.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 minute ago, Ieuan Gregory said:

put down 8 bags slow release (3 month) 15-10-16 last Wednesday, worked well last winter with all the rain, so try again this year, lasted well into February this year. Interested to see your comparison in a couple of months Dave.

Vertidrain tomorrow and a couple bags of slow release for one wing, I'll check the analysis tomorrow and follow its progress through the coming months against the normal 3.12.12.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Vertidrain turned up and did a nice job on the pitch after a few adjustments, started off at 10" depth but the grass being on the shallow side of rooting had too much surface break so brought it back to 6" to 7" to reduce surface disruption. 

First picture showing a lot of lift and then reduced after the adjustments. 

 

Had look at the slow release fertiliser, small prills at 3mm!

 

Interesting analysis though.

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

15 on the nitrogen using two different types to give a quick release with the urea and a longer  release with the nitrate.

Urea will dissolve very quickly in contact with damp soil, and the slower release nitrate requires bacterial/nodule activity to cause the nitrogen fixation to take place.

22 on the potash for general plant development and 5 of magnesium to facilitate and assist the grass on the uptake of the fertiliser. 

All it needs to get it working is a constant soil temperature of 8⁰  for the polymer coated prills to release the compounds.

I took the ground temperature last week after the vertidraining and at 6" it is still a very healthy 12⁰ so no problems applying it at this time.

I will hopefully cut the field a couple of times this week and the apply the couple of the experimental bags of controlled release.

I will also probably brush the field after the application to get the prills down into the sward out of the way of the mower.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Also interesting to note that if applied during hot dry weather to water it in, that's contrary to everything I've been told about this stuff.  Obviously the heat expands the polymer coat releasing the fertiliser and if dry urea would certainly burn the grass, not in frosty conditions either for the same reason I guess.

Also apply just after cutting to give the prills the chance to fall deeper into the grass so the next cut doesn't damage the prills or spread them unevenly. 

I will definitely be brushing the surface after application to help the prills into the grass.

 

[Bruegel the Elder]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just keep taking the prills Older!💊🍺❗️

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

5 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just keep taking the prills Older!💊🍺❗️

Alright, alright Bruegal...I'll stop talking.

 

[Mrgreen]

The multi green range is a good solid product, Headland amenity I think?

A couple of other analysis are available I believe.

Large tines, wide spacing on the vertical drain. Looks a little “plucky” the top link looks as if it was a little long, or bit more heave needed to allow for forward travel speed.  Will soon settle down with a cut or two though. Good job done, perfect timing , with decent soil temps and recovery growth. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

3 hours ago, Mrgreen said:

The multi green range is a good solid product, Headland amenity I think?

A couple of other analysis are available I believe.

Large tines, wide spacing on the vertical drain. Looks a little “plucky” the top link looks as if it was a little long, or bit more heave needed to allow for forward travel speed.  Will soon settle down with a cut or two though. Good job done, perfect timing , with decent soil temps and recovery growth. 

Yup Mrgreen I had him shorten the top link 4 times until I was happy, but lost 3" off the depth and a lot of the lift...but a decent enough result. 

As you say a couple of cuts now with a balanced roller will put it back to decent.

The fertiliser bag has a multitude of information on it...very Impressed with the product,  now wait for the results...hoping to put it down tomorrow after cutting. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Cut and rolled, with the fertiliser and vertidraining biting now looking like a football pitch again. 

 

[Ieuan Gregory]

put down15-10-16 + 2.3 MgO 14 days ago pictured is the result so far,slightly different to your fertiliser Dave see how it goes by January

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

On 08/10/2020 at 10:12, Ieuan Gregory said:

put down15-10-16 + 2.3 MgO 14 days ago pictured is the result so far,slightly different to your fertiliser Dave see how it goes by January

Looking spot on Ieuan. 

I'm thinking already my low nitrogen strategy may not give me the best results, still not put down the slow release yet but the 3.12.12 is biting, I think I will up the nitrogen in future as the surface here could be better at this time.

[Mrgreen]

It is easier to put a little more down. Once you apply to much, you can't take it back. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Got the slow release down today at 25grm per metre.

To get this accuracy I used the drop spreader rather than the spinner.

 

Note the prills sitting on the surface, tomorrow's game should help to get them into the sward, then a brushing on Sunday to really push them down,  leave for 3 days I think before another brush and cut.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Spotted this when I had finished, a bit of the fertiliser on the tarmac just after it had rained a bit.

Interesting to note that white prills which are already dissolving must be the urea nitrate.

That means the controlled release prills are the orange ones containing the nitrogen nitrate, potash and magnesium, this shows the mechanics of the system...now we know.

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

WOAH!!! Went back up to the pitch after 50 minutes home for a cup of tea and saw this!

 

Couple of patches where I had a bit of over spill when I stopped but had spread the prills around with a brush, grass had already chemically burnt from the urea being damp.

Out with the hose and soaked the area to alleviate the damage. 

That'll teach me to respect this fertiliser like all fertilisers or it will kill grass quicker than a weedkiller. 

This had happened because a bit of rain during application has started dissolving the urea and the brush had smeared it on the leaf.

You would get the same result over the whole pitch if you mow with a roller mower smearing the softened prills.

[Mrgreen]

Straight urea has an analysis of 46 0 0, this goes some way to explaining how quickly it can scorch. Very soluble. It can easily be diluted in water, and applied through a sprayer as a liquid feed. A 25kg bag applied in 500ltrs of water, supplies 9kg/N. At a cost of around £40, so very cost effective. Can also be tank mixed with a weed killer for a weed and feed effect. How ever, left in the open air, will quickly lose it’s nitrogen to the atmosphere.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

35 minutes ago, Mrgreen said:

Straight urea has an analysis of 46 0 0, this goes some way to explaining how quickly it can scorch. Very soluble. It can easily be diluted in water, and applied through a sprayer as a liquid feed. A 25kg bag applied in 500ltrs of water, supplies 9kg/N. At a cost of around £40, so very cost effective. Can also be tank mixed with a weed killer for a weed and feed effect. How ever, left in the open air, will quickly lose it’s nitrogen to the atmosphere.

Never used it before and it certainly can burn very quickly!

I think me brushing it when wet exasperated the affect...live and learn!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Split one of the controlled prills in half just to show how it works. 

The orange outer polymer coating containing the nitrogen nitrate, potash and magnesium inside. In warm temperatures the polymer coat expands opening up micro pores letting the fertiliser seep out, when it contacts damp soil it will start to break down and the bacteria activates the fixation process,  all very clever no doubt. When the weather cools the polymer contracts and the fertiliser is contained again.

Interesting to note the thickness of the coating, less than a micron I would guess.

 

[Bruegel the Elder]

On 09/10/2020 at 22:44, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Never used it before and it certainly can burn very quickly!

I think me brushing it when wet exasperated the affect...live and learn!

I bet you were exasperated when the effects of your fertiliser were exacerbated! Bloody urea and predictive text, enough to drive you to distruction!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

5 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

I bet you were exasperated when the effects of your fertiliser were exacerbated! Bloody urea and predictive text, enough to drive you to distruction!

Love it, yes it does come up with a few wrong words if you don't keep an eye out! 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Spotted this today.

The affect of the vertidrain now showing strongly as highlighted lines of aerated grass, this is the grass being able to breath in fresh air instead of stale air from compaction (gaseous exchange)

Unusually these lines show the vertidrain had little lift applied to fracture the ground between the tines, normally the grass would flush green across its  entirety, but beggars cannot be choosers...so be it , the FA paid for it - so thanks to them.

Also note where the fertiliser had burnt the grass, washing it with the hose and subsequent rain it has already started to recover luckily.

The arrows showing the lines and the circle the burnt area.

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Finished the drain at last...should keep that bleddy  John Mead happy...lol

 

Also the urea nitrogen is biting hard now, grass putting on nearly ½" of growth a day, not a lover of that as it detracts from the general and root growth.  You can see the grass on the wing nearly blue with the urea!

 

But overall reasonably happy with the result at this time.

[Bruegel the Elder]

Looking good Older, never mind, you’ll be able to do it all again next week/month once those ruddy players have done their worst!

[Dave Bartlam]

@TheolderIgetthebetterIwas question for you... Is there much point going to the levels you have if there's no drainage system on the pitch?

We are having issues at our ground which is ultimately down to the Rugby Club's minis using the pitch to train on, but concentrating their drills in certain areas.

Out pitch hasn't got drainage and two weeks ago, a patch of mud just "appeared". No grass at all. 

This week we had it fertilised and verti-drained however, I think a miracle is more like what's required for it to last us until the end of winter

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

4 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

@TheolderIgetthebetterIwas question for you... Is there much point going to the levels you have if there's no drainage system on the pitch?

We are having issues at our ground which is ultimately down to the Rugby Club's minis using the pitch to train on, but concentrating their drills in certain areas.

Out pitch hasn't got drainage and two weeks ago, a patch of mud just "appeared". No grass at all. 

This week we had it fertilised and verti-drained however, I think a miracle is more like what's required for it to last us until the end of winter

 

Training on the pitch at this time of the year is bonkers, compaction in the top layer is the biggest problem where grass is concerned. 

Rugby is brutal to grass in the scrum areas and will wipe grass out in one go virtually, rucking is also very damaging.

If their pitch is going to get that amount of traffic on it they would need to start a program of hollow coring and topdressing with sports sand to maintain any sort of surface for both sports. 

[Dave Bartlam]

9 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Training on the pitch at this time of the year is bonkers, compaction in the top layer is the biggest problem where grass is concerned. 

Rugby is brutal to grass in the scrum areas and will wipe grass out in one go virtually, rucking is also very damaging.

If their pitch is going to get that amount of traffic on it they would need to start a program of hollow coring and topdressing with sports sand to maintain any sort of surface for both sports. 

It's been an issue for us. We've not trained on it, instead opting for a 3G. The rugby Mini's continue to do so and it's caused damage which I think is now irreversible (until it can get some much needed rest)

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Dave Bartlam said:

It's been an issue for us. We've not trained on it, instead opting for a 3G. The rugby Mini's continue to do so and it's caused damage which I think is now irreversible (until it can get some much needed rest)

The grass will recover at this time as the temperatures are still good, but they would need to stop now to give it a chance.

[Paul]

Well......4 weeks to plan in some work. Whats everyones list of jobs?

Repair goalmouth and penalty spot. 

Power wash tea hut area, grandstand and players tunnel.

Paint grandstand.

Clean path at far end of the ground.

Clean nets and wash posts down.

Weed killer to spray around the ground and club.

Fertiliser on the pitch to go down. 

Im sure theres plenty of other jobs to do. 🤣

[baldy]

Any bulbs need replacing? lol. Well done on Saturday’s pitch, well playable.