TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 Got myself a profiler/plugger to have a proper look at what is going on with the pitch...it's like a pudding this season and last! Chose an area prone to flooding in heavy rain and took a few cores out 6"×2" Interesting result! The cores show heavy silting in the top 3 inches. RAPPO, Jeremy Wade, Chris Davey and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 This is no doubt due to the rain in the last few seasons bringing the fines/silt to the surface. The net result being no air spaces in the top of the soil profile, without them grassland will retain water in the top structure of a pitch...soft slow draining will be the result. Solution, we will have to hollow core the pitch and use a silicate sand to put air spaces back into the top of the profile. Hollow coring and sanding is the only solution to this problem, vertidraining will not resolve this as the action of the vertidrain although relieving compaction does produce compacted holes that close again. You can see from the cores that the rubber crumb that was used some 10+ years ago is still very much doing its job maintaining air spaces...happy with that. I have posted this suggest that many other pitches could be suffering from the same problem. If you go back to your school days and your science lessons, remember the soil in the test tube with water, the fines come to the surface and the large particles go to the bottom, the same happens to soil that is continually soaked flooded. Hollow core and sanding it is then. Hope this helps. Bruegel the Elder, Muggy, Mark Leah and 6 others 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 Thanks older great post RAPPO and TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruegel the Elder Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 Masterclass👍 TheolderIgetthebetterIwas and RAPPO 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 It’s what they do on golf courses TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, St Darren said: It’s what they do on golf courses Yes Darren, it's nothing new just a better solution than vertidraining and slitting. What the cores have also shown me is that my star wheel slitter and heavy slitter have not been penetrating deep enough to puncture this layer, so more weight is required to achieve this depth. Hopefully I will be able to get on the pitch with this extra weight this week! Not holding my breath on that looking at the forecast again! Also the plugger is so effective at taking these cores out I will be using it to heavily core the worst areas and filling them with a sand,soil rubber crumb mix. Later in the year I will be drilling deep holes into these areas to create a sump for the cores to feed water into, hopefully this will rapidly remove water from the surface and stop it spreading out onto the field causing this pudding effect. We'll see. Just had a thought...do the whole pitch...only 2,310,400 holes - might take a while though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenman Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 You're wrong Older , VAR has reviewed it , it's 2,310, 500 holes . Dave Bartlam and TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 After this morning's rain, and after forking at 9" ...water level down by 4"/5" This shows the water table is near to the top in this area, will have to drill deeper to drain the water away quicker. But of course this shows the saturation level at this time. Nowhere for the water to go...only back to the top as the water table rises again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 Grass turning yellow because it can't breathe and dozens of worm casts for the same reason. Classic examples of saturated ground...unplayable! Gary Andrew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 Back in my day we'd play on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 Yes dave but back in your day we did not have the American attitude of sueing people if you break a finger nail. There is more a care of duty on clubs now, and because clubs are run by volunteers they have to be more careful. But let's face it if Penryn's pitch is struggling then we are all in trouble. RAPPO and TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Postman Pat said: Yes dave but back in your day we did not have the American attitude of sueing people if you break a finger nail. There is more a care of duty on clubs now, and because clubs are run by volunteers they have to be more careful. But let's face it if Penryn's pitch is struggling then we are all in trouble. It was said in jest mate Fully aware of the ramifications of H&S now. I was watching a clip today of Piers Morgan interviewing the director of animal charity, PETA. They sued a photographer who set his camera up on a tripod and got a monkey to press the button to take a photo... The chairty have just successfully sued him for 25% of the profits from this photo (which went viral and so made alot of money) because "This monkey has been exploited and not been rewarded for his work"... Astounding! Lafs and TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenman Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 I often refer to the Marx Brothers in my posts , people regarded their films as absolute anarchy and madness But their films were just an extension of life , the PETA incident would have been the sort of thing they would have dreamt up . Similar to the woman who said that we shouldn't call cats and dogs pets because it demeans them . Why worry about global warming when we have people like that amongst us . I just hope Older hasn't offended any worms while he's been boring holes . Dave Bartlam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, fenman said: I often refer to the Marx Brothers in my posts , people regarded their films as absolute anarchy and madness But their films were just an extension of life , the PETA incident would have been the sort of thing they would have dreamt up . Similar to the woman who said that we shouldn't call cats and dogs pets because it demeans them . Why worry about global warming when we have people like that amongst us . I just hope Older hasn't offended any worms while he's been boring holes . Cut a few in half...now I've got twice as many! 4 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said: Back in my day we'd play on that You'd change your mind if you walked on it...pudding - and that's the pitch not you...lol Dave Bartlam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPPO Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave Bartlam said: It was said in jest mate Fully aware of the ramifications of H&S now. I was watching a clip today of Piers Morgan interviewing the director of animal charity, PETA. They sued a photographer who set his camera up on a tripod and got a monkey to press the button to take a photo... The chairty have just successfully sued him for 25% of the profits from this photo (which went viral and so made alot of money) because "This monkey has been exploited and not been rewarded for his work"... Astounding! Sounds like a load of monkey business to me Dave 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, RAPPO said: Sounds like a load of monkey business to me Dave 😂 It's madness! It's the world we live in now mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieuan Gregory Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 Good shout Dave,guess I'm more fortunate ours was a broccoli field for many years so there is many many tons of sand on it albiet probably beach sand from the Towans. However I have one or two small areas that are clagging so it's out with the plunger tomorrow and s** the worms. Let you know what I find TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruegel the Elder Posted February 24, 2020 Report Share Posted February 24, 2020 46 minutes ago, Ieuan Gregory said: Good shout Dave,guess I'm more fortunate ours was a broccoli field for many years so there is many many tons of sand on it albiet probably beach sand from the Towans. However I have one or two small areas that are clagging so it's out with the plunger tomorrow and s** the worms. Let you know what I find PLEASE NOTE: This forum does not necessarily support the opinions of its users. We categorically state that worms are our friends and should not be abused under any circumstances. It should also be noted that cutting worms in half does not lead to procreation, just one short worm and a dead bit! It’s Sanity: The world we (have to) live in now! TheolderIgetthebetterIwas, Dave Bartlam, B Manning and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 At last a post with humour and no vitriol. Keep up the good work fellas. All we need now is our bard “ pitty “ with some eloquent words of wisdom, maybe get the rubber ducks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razor61 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Postman Pat said: At last a post with humour and no vitriol. Keep up the good work fellas. All we need now is our bard “ pitty “ with some eloquent words of wisdom, maybe get the rubber ducks out. I agree a sensible topic with and great solutions to our waterlogged pitches and a nice bit of humour thrown in! Well done Older! TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Postman Pat said: At last a post with humour and no vitriol. Keep up the good work fellas. All we need now is our bard “ pitty “ with some eloquent words of wisdom, maybe get the rubber ducks out. He's already suggested rubber duck racing as a substitute if a game gets called off...pretty good suggestion I thought. Anyways...went up to work on the pitch 11.00 and surprise, surprise it rained, snowed and hailed until 1.00 when the sun came out. Took me by surprise a big yellow thing in the sky...thought it was a UFO but realised it was a sign from Zeus. U can eF Off now...so I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 Moving on. Good news...signs of the grass flushing and weeds popping up, ground temperature up to 6 degrees. All good if the grass gets going it will drink a lot of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenman Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 Don't totaly rely on this BUT , I'm making the pilgrimage down to Mawgan Porth on Friday so I should bring drier weather with me for 10 days at least . TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 A chance to slit the whole pitch! Looking like a football pitch again! 30% of the pitch still very iffy...dont want any rain!!! Gary Andrew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenman Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 Looks good , I watched the Greavesy documentary last week , your pitch looks a lot better than some of the pitches from the 60's .remember in the 70 's on our pitch right next to the North Sea , with all of the team out in the morning first thing armed with forks trying to help it drain , and the chairman ringing bags of sawdust for the goal mouth . Madness but happy memories , just to get a game on a Saturday . How things change , many players can't be bothered to turn up to play let alone fork a pith over at 8.o'clock in the morning . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 Was forking ours this afternoon, still very wet in patches. What’s the weather like between now and Saturday please. TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Postman Pat said: Was forking ours this afternoon, still very wet in patches. What’s the weather like between now and Saturday please. Friday rain, Saturday hail....sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 Oh great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foul Throw 3 Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 Brilliant thread Older. Like many volunteers around the south-west, I hope you are appreciated by your club. Top work! TheolderIgetthebetterIwas and MattP 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruegel the Elder Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 51 minutes ago, Foul Throw 3 said: Brilliant thread Older. Like many volunteers around the south-west, I hope you are appreciated by your club. Top work! Volunteer groundsmen are reviled only slightly less than Referees, If you can’t get a game on it’s entirety your fault. If the pitch is playable then the weather’s been kind to you! Thankless task! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said: Volunteer groundsmen are reviled only slightly less than Referees, If you can’t get a game on it’s entirety your fault. If the pitch is playable then the weather’s been kind to you! Thankless task! Reviled! dont think so Bruegel...maybe when I tell them to get out the goal mouths...lol. RAPPO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 Update showing clean sharp slits after finishing yesterday, and the affect last nights rain has had. The slits now blurred and filled with silt! Also the plug holes filled with water showing the water table level. Also the plug holes filled with water showing the water table level. What this shows is the water level being maintained near the surface making pitches unplayable ...even if the sun is shining! Interesting data from the Met office via St Day on the FA hive service showing the amount of rain we've had. By my calculation an average pitch this season has had to deal with approximately 1,000 cubic metres of water so far this season...go figure! Mark Leah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 After all that rain last night a lovely drying day so out with an unusual bit of kit. An old (40 years) Robin air dagger. Rescued from the scrap heap and put back into service, but a hell of a bit of kit. Knocks an 18" probe into the ground and fires compressed air to relieve compaction. This end result should fix the flooding in this area...hopefully! A few days like this and out with the heavy brushes to knock off these bleddy worm casts that are smearing the surface! BUT...the forecast is awful again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruegel the Elder Posted February 27, 2020 Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 Looks like a set of enormous hoof-prints! Probably hard graft too, I do hope that the flooded area doesn’t cover the whole pitch! I see that there are still a few of these old workhorses about although getting spares is a bit of a nightmare, and now there’s a brand new replacement; the Oxyshot! Costs a bloomin’ fortune though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said: Looks like a set of enormous hoof-prints! Probably hard graft too, I do hope that the flooded area doesn’t cover the whole pitch! I see that there are still a few of these old workhorses about although getting spares is a bit of a nightmare, and now there’s a brand new replacement; the Oxyshot! Costs a bloomin’ fortune though! Not hard, easy job it's totally automatic or 95% is. Spare parts not really available anymore, you have to get them made to keep it going! But a fine machine, £5,000 in its day. You're right about the Oxyshot, with the air compressor it comes out at £16k ...ridiculous! There is a company that has developed a twin tractor mounted version but you have to hire them in with the machine...expensive! The problem with flooded areas is they will spread out and merge into other areas and swamp whole areas of the pitch. Bruegel the Elder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruegel the Elder Posted February 27, 2020 Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 All you groundsmen out there: read and inwardly ingest! All you players who have no intention ever to be a groundsperson also read carefully. It might just creep up on you when you’re not looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said: All you groundsmen out there: read and inwardly ingest! All you players who have no intention ever to be a groundsperson also read carefully. It might just creep up on you when you’re not looking! Thank you Bruegal, just posting this stuff to show there is more to this game than kicking a ball, cutting grass and rolling...a lot more! No young uns showing any interest these days. Trouble for the future methinks! kevin richards, Chris Davey and Foul Throw 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Back to a full water table this morning! Birds on the pitch is the early warning sign it's wet...lol Luckily we have no home games this weekend...best of luck to those who have. Rain all day getting heavier mid-day, hail (frozen rain) all day tomorrow with pressure falling again! No work possible on the pitch so I'll clean the kitchen for something to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Older, what happens with the holes when you have a fixture? Do you have to fill them in? Every day's a school day with this thread. Very informative and certainly highlights another role at a club where are unsung heroes go about their tasks with very little recognition or appreciation TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 48 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said: Older, what happens with the holes when you have a fixture? Do you have to fill them in? Every day's a school day with this thread. Very informative and certainly highlights another role at a club where are unsung heroes go about their tasks with very little recognition or appreciation Yes Dave, they will be filled with a sand rubber mix before the next game, I will also do some with just rubber and some with just sand to see which filling works best. They are being left open at this time to be able to see what is happening below ground. Although they cannot prevent flooding they should remove the water quicker, the pictures show the amount of water the ground has to deal with...a lot! Latest figures from the Met office now show the second wettest February since 1990 at an average 179 mm. I reckon the pitches are now having to deal with approximately 1,500 cu mts of rain on them this season! Only the odd game is possible in these situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTforever Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 minute ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said: Yes Dave, they will be filled with a sand rubber mix before the next game, I will do some with just rubber and some with just sand to see which filling works best. They are being left open at this time to be able to see what is happening below ground. Although they cannot prevent flooding they should remove the water quicker, the pictures show the amount of water the ground has to deal with...a lot! Latest figures from the Met office now show the second wettest February since 1990 at an average 179 mm. I reckon the pitches are now having to deal with approximately 1,500 cu mts of rain on them this season! Only the odd game is possible in these situations. Thanks for this informative post guys, great to see such helpful posts on here, valuable to many clubs im sure! Is the rubber used the same as they use on 3g pitches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Just now, NTforever said: Thanks for this informative post guys, great to see such helpful posts on here, valuable to many clubs im sure! Is the rubber used the same as they use on 3g pitches? Yes buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin richards Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 9 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said: Thank you Bruegal, just posting this stuff to show there is more to this game than kicking a ball, cutting grass and rolling...a lot more! No young uns showing any interest these days. Trouble for the future methinks! & therein lies the whole problem, youngsters, & even worse, players who have just finished playing, have no interest whatsoever in getting involved in helping run a club or doing the work that Dave does at Penryn, Cozy Powell does at Porthleven, Derek Richards does at Falmouth & many others have done within their respective clubs for years. These guys are in their 50s, 60s & even 70s & there’s nobody offering to help them. One day, they will not be here. 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, kevin richards said: & therein lies the whole problem, youngsters, & even worse, players who have just finished playing, have no interest whatsoever in getting involved in helping run a club or doing the work that Dave does at Penryn, Cozy Powell does at Porthleven, Derek Richards does at Falmouth & many others have done within their respective clubs for years. These guys are in their 50s, 60s & even 70s & there’s nobody offering to help them. One day, they will not be here. 🤔 Blimey Kev...you just made me feel old! I'm too close to the 70 mark for comfort! I do feel that all volunteers are appreciated and do not really want any recognition, just quietly work in the background. I do also believe that the modern day youngsters have had it all given to them so they have no comprehension of what the older generation did to give them the facilities they have today...and that is not their fault...it's ours for making it easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Another interesting fact...whilst I have nothing to do! I need a bigger shed, and interestingly to replace the kit in here would cost £38,000 ...although I will be selling one of the mowers soon to make a bit of room. Hope your all insured! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin richards Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 2 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said: Blimey Kev...you just made me feel old! I'm too close to the 70 mark for comfort! I do feel that all volunteers are appreciated and do not really want any recognition, just quietly work in the background. I do also believe that the modern day youngsters have had it all given to them so they have no comprehension of what the older generation did to give them the facilities they have today...and that is not their fault...it's ours for making it easy! When I said 70s, I was thinking more about Derek at Falmouth Town m8. 🤣😂🤣 TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 The same area 4 hours later and the water level now well down. The pitch of course would still not be playable. Happy with that, now if I put a main sump into that area it will speed up the percolating rate even more. But remember water attracts water but can only travel horizontally for around 2ft 6" (that's why lateral drainage should never be more than 5ft apart ) before the pull on each molecule breaks down. A Dutchman discovered it but I forget his name (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruegel the Elder Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Blimey Older, have you got a degree in soil chemistry or the like? I would say that you are a fount of subterranean knowledge. Incidentally, is groundsmanning an art or a science? Either way, there’s a university just up the road, get in there and give them a few seminars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said: Blimey Older, have you got a degree in soil chemistry or the like? I would say that you are a fount of subterranean knowledge. Incidentally, is groundsmanning an art or a science? Either way, there’s a university just up the road, get in there and give them a few seminars! No degree but a great interest in agronomy, with that goes soil structures and all that entails. I am a believer that to do a job properly you have to understand all aspects of it and have an appreciation of the affect your sport and maintenance has on it. I did work in horticulture for 40 years and that helps. B Manning, Dave Bartlam and Chris Davey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2020 On 28/02/2020 at 15:09, Bruegel the Elder said: Blimey Older, have you got a degree in soil chemistry or the like? I would say that you are a fount of subterranean knowledge. Incidentally, is groundsmanning an art or a science? Either way, there’s a university just up the road, get in there and give them a few seminars! Grounds work on pitches is now very much a science but the final product and presentation is very much an art. If you can present your pitch professionally and give the participants and spectators that initial wow factor...you've cracked it. Out with my dogs today I came across two examples of what I've been posting about. Note the silt deposited by the rain in this area, covered in water while all around it has drained. Out with my Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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