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Got myself a profiler/plugger to have a proper look at what is going on with the pitch...it's like a pudding this season and last!

Chose an area prone to flooding in heavy rain and took a few cores out 6"×2"

Interesting result! The cores show heavy silting in the top 3 inches.

 

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This is no doubt due to the rain in the last few seasons bringing the fines/silt to the surface. The net result being no air spaces in the top of the soil profile, without them grassland will retain w

Best thread I have read on here for years! Keep up the good work all you groundsmen out there. Some of us fans do appreciate you and I suppose you do enjoy the challenge of it if you are honest.

PLEASE NOTE: This forum does not necessarily support the opinions of its users. We categorically state that worms are our friends and should not be abused under any circumstances. It should also be no

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This is no doubt due to the rain in the last few seasons bringing the fines/silt to the surface. The net result being no air spaces in the top of the soil profile, without them grassland will retain water in the top structure of a pitch...soft slow draining will be the result. 

Solution, we will have to hollow core the pitch and use a silicate sand to put air spaces back into the top of the profile.

Hollow coring and sanding is the only solution to this problem, vertidraining will not resolve this as the action of the vertidrain although relieving compaction does produce compacted holes that close again.

You can see from the cores that the rubber crumb that was used some 10+ years ago is still very much doing its job maintaining air spaces...happy with that.

I have posted this suggest that many other pitches could be suffering from the same problem. 

If you go back to your school days and your science lessons, remember the soil in the test tube with water, the fines come to the surface and the large particles go to the bottom,  the same happens to soil that is continually soaked flooded.

Hollow core and sanding it is then.

Hope this helps.

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1 hour ago, St Darren said:

It’s what they do on golf courses

Yes Darren,  it's nothing  new just a better solution than vertidraining and slitting. 

What the cores have also shown me is that my star wheel slitter and heavy slitter have not been penetrating deep enough to puncture this layer, so more weight is required to achieve this depth. 

Hopefully I will be able to get on the pitch with this extra weight this week! Not holding my breath on that looking at the forecast again!

Also the plugger is so effective at taking these cores out I will be using it to heavily core the worst areas and filling them with a sand,soil rubber crumb mix.

Later in the year I will be drilling deep holes into these areas to create a sump for the cores to feed water into, hopefully this will rapidly remove water from the surface and stop it spreading out onto the field causing this pudding effect. 

We'll see.

Just had a thought...do the whole pitch...only 2,310,400 holes - might take a while though!

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After this morning's rain, and after forking at 9" ...water level down by 4"/5"

This shows the water table is near to the top in this area, will have to drill deeper to drain the water away quicker.

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But of course this shows the saturation level at this time.

Nowhere for the water to go...only back to the top as the water table rises again! 

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Yes dave but back in your day we did not have the American attitude of sueing people if you break a finger nail. There is more a care of duty on clubs now, and because clubs are run by volunteers they have to be more careful. But let's face it if Penryn's pitch is struggling then we are all in trouble.

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2 hours ago, Postman Pat said:

Yes dave but back in your day we did not have the American attitude of sueing people if you break a finger nail. There is more a care of duty on clubs now, and because clubs are run by volunteers they have to be more careful. But let's face it if Penryn's pitch is struggling then we are all in trouble.

It was said in jest mate ;) Fully aware of the ramifications of H&S now.

I was watching a clip today of Piers Morgan interviewing the director of animal charity, PETA.  They sued a photographer who set his camera up on a tripod and got a monkey to press the button to take a photo... The chairty have just successfully sued him for 25% of the profits from this photo (which went viral and so made alot of money) because "This monkey has been exploited and not been rewarded for his work"... Astounding!

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I often refer to the  Marx Brothers in my posts , people regarded their films as absolute anarchy and madness But their films were just an extension of life , the PETA incident would have been the sort of thing they would have dreamt up . Similar to the woman who said that we shouldn't call cats and dogs pets because it demeans them . Why worry about global warming when we have people like that amongst us . I just hope Older hasn't  offended any worms while he's been boring holes .

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4 minutes ago, fenman said:

I often refer to the  Marx Brothers in my posts , people regarded their films as absolute anarchy and madness But their films were just an extension of life , the PETA incident would have been the sort of thing they would have dreamt up . Similar to the woman who said that we shouldn't call cats and dogs pets because it demeans them . Why worry about global warming when we have people like that amongst us . I just hope Older hasn't  offended any worms while he's been boring holes .

Cut a few in half...now I've got twice as many!

4 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Back in my day we'd play on that 

You'd change your mind if you walked on it...pudding - and that's the pitch not you...lol

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1 hour ago, Dave Bartlam said:

It was said in jest mate ;) Fully aware of the ramifications of H&S now.

I was watching a clip today of Piers Morgan interviewing the director of animal charity, PETA.  They sued a photographer who set his camera up on a tripod and got a monkey to press the button to take a photo... The chairty have just successfully sued him for 25% of the profits from this photo (which went viral and so made alot of money) because "This monkey has been exploited and not been rewarded for his work"... Astounding!

Sounds like a load of monkey business to me Dave 😂

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46 minutes ago, Ieuan Gregory said:

Good shout Dave,guess I'm more fortunate ours was a broccoli field for many years so there is many many tons of sand on it albiet probably beach sand from the Towans. However I have one or two small areas that are clagging so it's out with the plunger tomorrow and s** the worms. Let you know what I find

PLEASE NOTE: This forum does not necessarily support the opinions of its users. We categorically state that worms are our friends and should not be abused under any circumstances. It should also be noted that cutting worms in half does not lead to procreation, just one short worm and a dead bit!

It’s Sanity: The world we (have to) live in now!

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1 hour ago, Postman Pat said:

At last a post with humour and no vitriol. Keep up the good work fellas. All we need now is our bard “ pitty “ with some eloquent words of wisdom, maybe get the rubber ducks out.

 

I agree a sensible topic with and great solutions to our waterlogged pitches and a nice bit of humour thrown in! Well done Older!

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3 hours ago, Postman Pat said:

At last a post with humour and no vitriol. Keep up the good work fellas. All we need now is our bard “ pitty “ with some eloquent words of wisdom, maybe get the rubber ducks out.

 

He's already suggested rubber duck racing  as a substitute if a game gets called off...pretty good suggestion I thought. 

Anyways...went up to work on the pitch 11.00 and surprise, surprise it rained, snowed and hailed until 1.00 when the sun came out.

Took me by surprise a big yellow thing in the sky...thought it was a UFO but realised it was a sign from Zeus.

U can eF  Off now...so I did!

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Looks good , I watched the Greavesy documentary last week , your pitch looks a lot better than some of the pitches from the 60's  .remember in the 70 's on our pitch right next to the North Sea , with all of the team out in the morning first thing armed with forks trying to help it drain , and the chairman ringing bags of sawdust for the goal mouth . Madness but happy memories , just to get a game on a Saturday . How things change , many players can't be bothered to turn up to play let alone fork a pith over at 8.o'clock in the morning .

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1 minute ago, Postman Pat said:

Was forking ours this afternoon, still very wet in patches. What’s the weather like between now and Saturday please.

According to the Met Office, tomorrow is raining early doors but brightening up with sunny spells as the day goes on. Friday, there looks as though there will be consistent levels of rain. And then Saturday looks similar to tomorrow, but with some rain added in.

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51 minutes ago, Foul Throw 3 said:

Brilliant thread Older. Like many volunteers around the south-west, I hope you are appreciated by your club. Top work!

Volunteer groundsmen are reviled only slightly less than Referees, If you can’t get a game on it’s entirety your fault. If the pitch is playable then the weather’s been kind to you! Thankless task!
 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Volunteer groundsmen are reviled only slightly less than Referees, If you can’t get a game on it’s entirety your fault. If the pitch is playable then the weather’s been kind to you! Thankless task!
 

 

 

 

 

 

Reviled! dont think so Bruegel...maybe when I tell them to get out the goal mouths...lol.

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Update showing clean sharp slits after finishing yesterday, and the affect last nights rain has had.

The slits now blurred and filled with silt!

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Also the plug holes filled with water showing the water table level.

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Also the plug holes filled with water showing the water table level.

What this shows is the water level being maintained near the surface making pitches unplayable

...even if the sun is shining!

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Interesting data from the Met office via St Day on the FA hive service showing the amount of rain we've had.

By my calculation an average pitch this season has had to deal with approximately 1,000 cubic metres of water so far this season...go figure!

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After all that rain last night a lovely drying day so out with an unusual bit of kit.

An old (40 years) Robin air dagger. Rescued from the scrap heap and put back into service, but a hell of a bit of kit.

Knocks an 18" probe into the ground and fires compressed air to relieve compaction. 

 

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This end result should fix the flooding in this area...hopefully! 

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A few days like this and out with the heavy brushes to knock off these bleddy worm casts that are smearing the surface!

BUT...the forecast is awful again! 

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Looks like a set of enormous hoof-prints! Probably hard graft too, I do hope that the flooded area doesn’t cover the whole pitch!

I see that there are still a few of these old workhorses about although getting spares is a bit of a nightmare, and now there’s a brand new replacement; the Oxyshot! Costs a bloomin’ fortune though!

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2 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Looks like a set of enormous hoof-prints! Probably hard graft too, I do hope that the flooded area doesn’t cover the whole pitch!

I see that there are still a few of these old workhorses about although getting spares is a bit of a nightmare, and now there’s a brand new replacement; the Oxyshot! Costs a bloomin’ fortune though!

Not hard, easy job it's totally automatic or 95% is. Spare parts not really available anymore, you have to get them made to keep it going! But a fine machine, £5,000 in its  day.

You're right about the Oxyshot, with the air compressor it comes out at £16k ...ridiculous! 

There is a company that has developed a twin tractor mounted version but you have to hire them in with the machine...expensive! 

The problem with flooded areas is they will spread out and merge into other areas and swamp whole areas of the pitch.

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10 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

All you groundsmen out there: read and inwardly ingest! All you players who have no intention ever to be a groundsperson also read carefully. It might just creep up on you when you’re not looking!

Thank you Bruegal, just posting this stuff to show there is more to this game than kicking a ball, cutting grass and rolling...a lot more!

No young uns showing any interest these days.

Trouble for the future methinks! 

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Back to a full water table this morning! 

Birds on the pitch is the early warning sign it's  wet...lol

Luckily we have no home games this weekend...best of luck to those who have.

Rain all day getting heavier mid-day, hail (frozen rain) all day tomorrow with pressure falling again!

No work possible on the pitch so I'll clean the kitchen for something to do.

 

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48 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Older, what happens with the holes when you have a fixture? Do you have to fill them in?

Every day's a school day with this thread. Very informative and certainly highlights another role at a club where are unsung heroes go about their tasks with very little recognition or appreciation

Yes Dave, they will be filled with a sand rubber mix before the next game, I will also do some with just rubber and some with just sand to see which filling works best.

They are being left open at this time to be able to see what is happening below ground.

Although they cannot prevent flooding they should remove the water quicker, the pictures show the amount of water the ground has to deal with...a lot!

Latest figures from the Met office now show the second wettest February since 1990 at an average 179 mm.

I reckon the pitches are now having to deal with approximately 1,500 cu mts  of rain on them this season! Only the odd game is possible in these situations. 

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1 minute ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Yes Dave, they will be filled with a sand rubber mix before the next game, I will do some with just rubber and some with just sand to see which filling works best.

They are being left open at this time to be able to see what is happening below ground.

Although they cannot prevent flooding they should remove the water quicker, the pictures show the amount of water the ground has to deal with...a lot!

Latest figures from the Met office now show the second wettest February since 1990 at an average 179 mm.

I reckon the pitches are now having to deal with approximately 1,500 cu mts  of rain on them this season! Only the odd game is possible in these situations. 

Thanks for this informative post guys, great to see such helpful posts on here, valuable to many clubs im sure!

Is the rubber used the same as they use on 3g pitches?

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9 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Thank you Bruegal, just posting this stuff to show there is more to this game than kicking a ball, cutting grass and rolling...a lot more!

No young uns showing any interest these days.

Trouble for the future methinks! 

& therein lies the whole problem, youngsters, & even worse, players who have just finished playing, have no interest whatsoever in getting involved in helping run a club or doing the work that Dave does at Penryn, Cozy Powell does at Porthleven, Derek Richards does at Falmouth & many others have done within their respective clubs for years. These guys are in their 50s, 60s & even 70s & there’s nobody offering to help them. One day, they will not be here. 🤔

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13 minutes ago, kevin richards said:

& therein lies the whole problem, youngsters, & even worse, players who have just finished playing, have no interest whatsoever in getting involved in helping run a club or doing the work that Dave does at Penryn, Cozy Powell does at Porthleven, Derek Richards does at Falmouth & many others have done within their respective clubs for years. These guys are in their 50s, 60s & even 70s & there’s nobody offering to help them. One day, they will not be here. 🤔

Blimey Kev...you just made me feel old!

I'm too close to the 70 mark for comfort!

I do feel that all volunteers are appreciated and do not really want any recognition,  just quietly work in the background. 

I do also believe that the modern day youngsters have had it all given to them so they have no comprehension of what the older generation did to give them the facilities they have today...and that is not their fault...it's ours for making it easy!

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2 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Blimey Kev...you just made me feel old!

I'm too close to the 70 mark for comfort!

I do feel that all volunteers are appreciated and do not really want any recognition,  just quietly work in the background. 

I do also believe that the modern day youngsters have had it all given to them so they have no comprehension of what the older generation did to give them the facilities they have today...and that is not their fault...it's ours for making it easy!

When I said 70s, I was thinking more about Derek at Falmouth Town m8. 🤣😂🤣

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The same area 4 hours later and the water level now well down.

The pitch of course would still not be playable.

 

 

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Happy with that, now if I put a main sump into that area it will speed up the percolating rate even more.

But remember water attracts water but can only travel horizontally for around 2ft 6" (that's why lateral drainage should never be more than 5ft apart ) before the pull on each molecule breaks down.

A Dutchman discovered it but I forget his name (?)

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