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Dave Deacon

County Cups thoughts!

County Cups thoughts!  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Senior Cup be for just Steps 5 & 6 (Western and SWPL) clubs?

    • Yes
      11
    • No - keep it as it is
      30


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What about next season’s Senior Cup? Is change needed and if so should it be just for Step 5 & 6 clubs?

If this is to happen, the County would look to introduce a third County Cup for clubs in the St Piran League, the East Cornwall Premier League and the Cornwall Combination League.

Also, if the Senior Cup is to become a competition for just Western League and the South West Peninsula League, should this be the opportunity for it to become mid-week competition under lights?

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34 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Definitely to both of your questions. 

I think midweek under lights would add more of a cup feel for it and would hopefully boost attendances also

The ccfa would totally disagree with this suggestion.

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1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

What about next season’s Senior Cup? Is change needed and if so should it be just for Step 5 & 6 clubs?

If this is to happen, the County would look to introduce a third County Cup for clubs in the St Piran League, the East Cornwall Premier League and the Cornwall Combination League.

Also, if the Senior Cup is to become a competition for just Western League and the South West Peninsula League, should this be the opportunity for it to become mid-week competition under lights?

What about the Cornwall Charity Cup  (16 clubs)?  this will be a duplicate competition  with the Senior Cup (22 clubs)

Which is more financial to the CCFA

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I was listening to Radio Cornwall, perhaps an idea if say two teams were drawn together and the fixture in the league hasnt been played, a double bubble and play 2 fixtures instead of 1? If you win, then go through and get 3 league points?

Happened between Wadebridge and St Austell in the RFU last Saturday. 

 

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1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

What about next season’s Senior Cup? Is change needed and if so should it be just for Step 5 & 6 clubs?

If this is to happen, the County would look to introduce a third County Cup for clubs in the St Piran League, the East Cornwall Premier League and the Cornwall Combination League.

Also, if the Senior Cup is to become a competition for just Western League and the South West Peninsula League, should this be the opportunity for it to become mid-week competition under lights?

Would be a lot of change in a short space of time. Would be a real shame to teams climbing the ladder but not quite there yet, such as Penryn and St Mawgan in the St Piran. 

Western League teams this season have 40 league fixtures, with huge distances to travel in the away games. Do their club committees and groundsmen want a midweek specific cup when the weather now is so bad during longer winters and less time to fix pitches from Sat-Weds?

IMO, the CCFA's priorities should be helping the Western League become more western, thus reducing travelling distances in time, helping Steve Carpenter and co. to keep up the early good work for the newly formed St Piran, as well as help the likes of ECPL and Duchy leagues who are being left behind for a number of reasons, with diminishing links between them and divided committees.

If they're thinking of changes, is anything being considered for the Junior Cup? A smaller cup now with league sizes in Duchy and Trelawney reducing every year. Worth allowing Reserve/3rd teams in if in a higher league?

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Just had a thought.

Perhaps the time has come with FA putting pressure on the SWPL to end the season by end of April, to move the semi finals of the Senior Cup to Easter weekend and then have the final on the 1st Bank Holiday in May? That way it frees up another Saturday for teams not involved and grounds and allows the final to be the true end of season event in early May?

Remember as well that Saltash and Liskeard were still involved in the CSC back in the 80s/90s. 

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The introduction of an "Intermediate Cup" would give more teams the chance to play in a County Cup competition and also have a longer cup-run against more appropriate opposition. Too many teams have no realistic chance of winning under the current set-up but entry is compulsory under FA rules.

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48 minutes ago, Mike Odgers said:

It was changed this season from all clubs in the hat at Round 1(last season)  to to all step 6 clubs entering at Round 3 (this season)

Chuck everybody in from the very beginning. Surely that makes it more interesting? Although to be fair, I can see the logic in allowing higher placed teams to enter the competition at a slightly later stage.

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I think an intermediate cup would be a great idea as someone said will give teams more of a chance and cost of entry into the senior cup is a lot of money for some clubs just to play one game of football imo the fact it’s compulsory to enter I’m not quite sure why it’s so expensive but that another matter,if another cup was introduced it would also give reserve clubs the chance to play in it as well 

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If the decision is to restrict the Senior Cup to Step 5 & 6 clubs, they would have to bring in a third County Cup to accommodate clubs in the St Piran League, the East Cornwall Premier League and the Cornwall Combination League. But would this include reserve sides?

And whatever they decide - there’s surely still going to be a fee for entering it.

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1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

If the decision is to restrict the Senior Cup to Step 5 & 6 clubs, they would have to bring in a third County Cup to accommodate clubs in the St Piran League, the East Cornwall Premier League and the Cornwall Combination League. But would this include reserve sides?

And whatever they decide - there’s surely still going to be a fee for entering it.

It would almost certainly allow reserve teams - as in Junior Cup.

The entry fees ought to be calculated to cover the actual costs of running the competitions and take into account that half of the teams only play one game!

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With the expensive fees, compared with the league fees, all cup competitions should be made voluntary and not compulsory. If you take the cost of the entry fee. referees fee, if drawn at home, the cost/hire of the pitch and providing food and then lose the game it is a very expensive day for one game.

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42 minutes ago, Foot Loose 1 said:

With the expensive fees, compared with the league fees, all cup competitions should be made voluntary and not compulsory. If you take the cost of the entry fee. referees fee, if drawn at home, the cost/hire of the pitch and providing food and then lose the game it is a very expensive day for one game.

If entry was voluntary, you could end up with about at most 8 teams entering! Hardly the Cup winners of the county in that case!

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I think the Intermediate Cup is a good idea and the Senior Cup under lights also without doubt a move in the right direction. Would suggest Easter Weekend as a  finals weekend could generate interest with SC on the Friday IC on the Saturday and JC on the Sunday.........would like to see an East and West format in both IC and JC but don’t think that is on the agenda but their was definitely more of a sense of occasion with the area Finals (SF)

This new format definitely good for the lower ‘senior’ clubs who rarely made it to even the QF stage of SC and would result in a ‘what’s the point’ consideration and bye bye £60

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I’d love to see a county cup across all the levels starting at ( junior level ) and the bigger (senior clubs) come in at a later stage, imagine a 3rd round tie of say Bodmin having to play down at say cury or Constantine, and all these home junior clubs can charge a senior gate fee . I’d think that would draw more interest than all these cups kicking about at the moment .

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4 hours ago, 6times said:

I’d love to see a county cup across all the levels starting at ( junior level ) and the bigger (senior clubs) come in at a later stage, imagine a 3rd round tie of say Bodmin having to play down at say cury or Constantine, and all these home junior clubs can charge a senior gate fee . I’d think that would draw more interest than all these cups kicking about at the moment .

You make a good point there. Difficult thing is though, on one hand it could and probably would draw interest. However, on the other hand it could end up being a real farce. You'd get 'big' sides hammering the 'small' sides in some cases. It would completely take the enjoyment and point out of the game.

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You’d also get some teams and a lot of (senior players) that certainly wouldn’t FANCY it , on some of the small fields for pitches it would be difficult to play football and a lot of it would come down to heart. Yep there may be a hammering or two but I’d expect there would be a lot  more really difficult/interesting ties. 
it would make for real interest in a full county cup . 

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30 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Unfortunately the poll at the top of this thread makes no mention of an intermediate cup, in fact there’s no detail at all. Perhaps it should be rerun with all the viable options available.

A third cup was mentioned in the opening  post and will only come about if the Senior Cup becomes Step 5 & 6 only. 

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Firstly, a declaration of interest – I am the current Chairman of the Rules and Competitions Working Group that has proposed the changes to the County Cups.  The following has been agreed with the CCFA CEO as a response to this topic.

As many of you will be aware a poll has gone out to the clubs to gauge opinion on the proposed changes and whilst the poll on this thread may be of use to some it will not be taken into account when the decision is made.  Views must be expressed to club secretaries who can then pass the club view to the CCFA via the poll.

The proposed change to the cup structure and the introduction of an ‘Intermediate Cup’ has come about as a result of representations to members of the Working Group from the football community, the continuous review of all of the cup competitions and the impacts of the leagues restructuring, the final phase of which will take place at the end of this season. 

Many hours have been expended by the Working Group and a Sub-Committee made up of all of the League Representatives who went into great detail before arriving at the proposed position.  A number of factors were considered including but not limited to:

        A medium term view i.e. what is the best guess of where clubs will sit in 5 years’ time

        Cup entry fees i.e. more expense for clubs if a 3rd competition is introduced.

        Future proofing as more Cornish South West Peninsula League (SWPL) clubs migrate to the Western League (WL) over time (between 5 & 7 over the next 5 years with mandatory                 promotion) and potential promotions to the SWPL.

        The steady increase in the number of FA Cup and FA Vase matches for those in the WL & SWPL as the number of WL teams rises.

        The potential for County Cups to no longer have precedence over National League System matches at Steps 5 & 6.

        Participation – how many reserve teams are unable to compete in a County Cup

        Cup credibility

        Number of matches in each competition

        Sponsors

        Fixture calendar

There are no proposals to make any changes to the Junior Cup.

The Charity Cup will be discussed at the next meeting of the Working Group but clearly it would make no sense to essentially duplicate the revised Senior Cup.

I do not intend to enter into great debate on here on the proposals.  They have the full support of the Working Group and the Sub-Committee but it is for the clubs across the County to form their view and forward that via the surveymonkey poll.

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Steve - the matter of the future of the cups sits with the CCFA et al. I for one am just pleased you have a role in that decision making process - your knowledge of local football from Trelawney through now to St Pirans makes you an ideal choice and voice of reason - some would have been concerned that the decisions would sit behind closed doors and made by some who may not have an up to date knowledge of running junior and senior clubs. . Good luck and thank you for your tireless efforts. 

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On 18/02/2020 at 18:04, Steve Carpenter said:

it will not be taken into account when the decision is made.

It was never expected to be Steve, but I felt it might have been a subject that attracted some discussion.

Let’s hope that each club gives it due discussion before returning to the Cornwall FA with their decision.

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