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Dave Deacon

Update from the Cornwall FA on the incident at Falmouth Town v St Blazey - 25th January 2020

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Statement – Update on Incident at Falmouth Town v St Blazey -25th January 2020

Cornwall FA has now completed its investigation into the incidents at the Falmouth Town v St Blazey AFC Kitchen Kit Peninsula League game on Saturday 25th January. Having received several statements and spoken at length with the match officials and the Devon & Cornwall Police we will be taking the following action:-

St Blazey AFC – Charged for an alleged Breach of FA Rule E20 (Failed to ensure Players and/or Officials and/or Spectators conducted themselves in an orderly fashion)

Rule E20 states - Each Affiliated Association, Competition and Club shall be responsible for ensuring: (a) that its directors, players, officials, employees, servants, representatives, spectators, and all persons purporting to be its supporters or followers, conduct themselves in an orderly fashion and refrain from any one or combination of the following: improper, violent, threatening, abusive, indecent, insulting or provocative words or behaviour, (including, without limitation, where any such conduct, words or behaviour includes a reference, whether express or implied, to any one or more of ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation or disability) whilst attending at or taking part in a Match in which it is involved, whether on its own ground or elsewhere

St Blazey will have two weeks to respond to the charge and until this case has been concluded it would be inappropriate to make any further comment

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On 31/01/2020 at 13:42, Dave Deacon said:

Statement – Update on Incident at Falmouth Town v St Blazey -25th January 2020

Cornwall FA has now completed its investigation into the incidents at the Falmouth Town v St Blazey AFC Kitchen Kit Peninsula League game on Saturday 25th January. Having received several statements and spoken at length with the match officials and the Devon & Cornwall Police we will be taking the following action:-

St Blazey AFC – Charged for an alleged Breach of FA Rule E20 (Failed to ensure Players and/or Officials and/or Spectators conducted themselves in an orderly fashion)

Rule E20 states - Each Affiliated Association, Competition and Club shall be responsible for ensuring: (a) that its directors, players, officials, employees, servants, representatives, spectators, and all persons purporting to be its supporters or followers, conduct themselves in an orderly fashion and refrain from any one or combination of the following: improper, violent, threatening, abusive, indecent, insulting or provocative words or behaviour, (including, without limitation, where any such conduct, words or behaviour includes a reference, whether express or implied, to any one or more of ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation or disability) whilst attending at or taking part in a Match in which it is involved, whether on its own ground or elsewhere

St Blazey will have two weeks to respond to the charge and until this case has been concluded it would be inappropriate to make any further comment

All this because of a flare, unbelievable!

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On 01/02/2020 at 14:09, BIG AL said:

All this because of a flare, unbelievable!

May I remind you that there were young children close to where the flare was lit. I do believe there was also at least one baby close by as well. Let alone the incident inside the clubhouse and in the parking area. Although I didn't witness those.

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1 hour ago, leedsunited said:

A child had an asthma attack because of a big man arranging an anticipated dust up ... Send them up Bristol City or Portsmouth, they cry wolf & fall well well short ... Club should be disgusted. 

True, Plymouth Argyle should indeed be disgusted, exporting their thugs to a peaceful afternoon’s football in mid-Cornwall. Although what Bristol City and Portsmouth have to do with it I’ve no idea. Yet another random “thought” from the realms of poor old leeds’s world of fantasy! 
PS he didn’t look that big in the pictures I saw, let’s not feed his pathetic ego, a small and rather sad individual by anybody’s standards!

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Wasn't thinking about Plymouth Argyle being the club who should be disgusted ... What I meant was these guys invited down by a certain individual should be ashamed, probably petrified to go to Portsmouth & Bristol City & make a show, yet think they are tough intimidating women & children at a local game, representing a local club, brought to the game by a local clubs management ... Pathetic 

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47 minutes ago, leedsunited said:

Wasn't thinking about Plymouth Argyle being the club who should be disgusted ... What I meant was these guys invited down by a certain individual should be ashamed, probably petrified to go to Portsmouth & Bristol City & make a show, yet think they are tough intimidating women & children at a local game, representing a local club, brought to the game by a local clubs management ... Pathetic 

Leeds , They were just having fun that got out of hand. It happens all over the country every day. 
i’m not saying what happened was alright but don’t think they set off in the morning with an agenda to cause trouble. Maybe they shouldn’t have been served in the bar ??? Many reasons I’m sure.

At the end of the day we all like to have some fun now and again ! Even you !!! Well. Maybe

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15 minutes ago, rocky170267 said:

Leeds , They were just having fun that got out of hand. It happens all over the country every day. 
i’m not saying what happened was alright but don’t think they set off in the morning with an agenda to cause trouble. Maybe they shouldn’t have been served in the bar ??? Many reasons I’m sure.

At the end of the day we all like to have some fun now and again ! Even you !!! Well. Maybe

Very well summed up and this is exactly what I think. Football always has and always will have moments like this!

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They may not have set off with the intention of causing trouble,  but they certainly set out with an agenda to wind up the Falmouth supporters. 

Too much beer I suspect and caution to the wind is the result.

A flare indoors and bottles thrown at cars is not fun but plain bloody stupid.

Very lucky that the large falmouth contingent behaved themselves and showed some restraint or it would have been a serious incident instead of a stupid one.

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5 hours ago, rocky170267 said:

Leeds , They were just having fun that got out of hand. It happens all over the country every day. 
i’m not saying what happened was alright but don’t think they set off in the morning with an agenda to cause trouble. Maybe they shouldn’t have been served in the bar ??? Many reasons I’m sure.

At the end of the day we all like to have some fun now and again ! Even you !!! Well. Maybe

At least two flares and a rather unpleasantly worded sign? I think that probably counts as an agenda to cause trouble. It rather proves a degree of preplanning.

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On 31/01/2020 at 13:42, Dave Deacon said:

Statement – Update on Incident at Falmouth Town v St Blazey -25th January 2020

Cornwall FA has now completed its investigation into the incidents at the Falmouth Town v St Blazey AFC Kitchen Kit Peninsula League game on Saturday 25th January. Having received several statements and spoken at length with the match officials and the Devon & Cornwall Police we will be taking the following action:-

St Blazey AFC – Charged for an alleged Breach of FA Rule E20 (Failed to ensure Players and/or Officials and/or Spectators conducted themselves in an orderly fashion)

Rule E20 states - Each Affiliated Association, Competition and Club shall be responsible for ensuring: (a) that its directors, players, officials, employees, servants, representatives, spectators, and all persons purporting to be its supporters or followers, conduct themselves in an orderly fashion and refrain from any one or combination of the following: improper, violent, threatening, abusive, indecent, insulting or provocative words or behaviour, (including, without limitation, where any such conduct, words or behaviour includes a reference, whether express or implied, to any one or more of ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation or disability) whilst attending at or taking part in a Match in which it is involved, whether on its own ground or elsewhere

St Blazey will have two weeks to respond to the charge and until this case has been concluded it would be inappropriate to make any further comment

The problem with all of these type of charges is that it is designed that with little or no evidence a club can be convicted. This type of accusation would never hold up in a criminal court so the the FA can get away with murder. Its a bit like trial by the ducking stool - suspected witches were ducked in the village pond - if they drowned they were innocent, but if they survived they were guilty.  My defence to all this type of charge in the past was - tell me what the club could have done on the day to physically prevent this happening, when spectators decide to behave badly, there is nothing any club can do to prevent it. You can write all the advice in the programme  that you want, you can have notices around the ground, stewards every few paces - still no club can prevent ten minutes of mayhem. If a club cannot actually stop it how can they be guilty of being responsible for their actions.

Who actually is the ' club ' in rule 20 -  it states that the club is responsible for a long list of persons, so if all those behaved badly at the same time who is left to be the club held responsible.

I am afraid the FA runs 'kangaroo' courts, without justice, little or no evidence and no real look at the practicalities of the day in question.:SM_carton:

 

 

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If the game was at Falmouth surely it is their job to police the crowd. Maybe those blokes were supporting St Blazey but they could have been a stag do who fancied taking in a match, who gets the blame then? In a court of law my guess is Falmouth would be blamed for not controlling the crowd.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Home Waters said:

The problem with all of these type of charges is that it is designed that with little or no evidence a club can be convicted. This type of accusation would never hold up in a criminal court so the the FA can get away with murder. Its a bit like trial by the ducking stool - suspected witches were ducked in the village pond - if they drowned they were innocent, but if they survived they were guilty.  My defence to all this type of charge in the past was - tell me what the club could have done on the day to physically prevent this happening, when spectators decide to behave badly, there is nothing any club can do to prevent it. You can write all the advice in the programme  that you want, you can have notices around the ground, stewards every few paces - still no club can prevent ten minutes of mayhem. If a club cannot actually stop it how can they be guilty of being responsible for their actions.

Who actually is the ' club ' in rule 20 -  it states that the club is responsible for a long list of persons, so if all those behaved badly at the same time who is left to be the club held responsible.

I am afraid the FA runs 'kangaroo' courts, without justice, little or no evidence and no real look at the practicalities of the day in question.:SM_carton:

 

 

Legally laws can only be introduced by parliamentary act so I do not understand what law the ccfa abides by. If this was not the case we could all invent our own laws !

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Interesting point (for a change) BIG AL. The Laws of Football (LOAF) are probably better described as rules or even regulations since they seem not to have the force of Criminal or Civil Law to back them up, although criminal/civil sanctions are available where they synchronise with common law. I await with interest the opinions of those with more extensive knowledge than I, or alternatively I might just go to bed!

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12 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Interesting point (for a change) BIG AL. The Laws of Football (LOAF) are probably better described as rules or even regulations since they seem not to have the force of Criminal or Civil Law to back them up, although criminal/civil sanctions are available where they synchronise with common law. I await with interest the opinions of those with more extensive knowledge than I, or alternatively I might just go to bed!

Hope you slept well and I agree entirely with what you have said.

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20 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Interesting point (for a change) BIG AL. The Laws of Football (LOAF) are probably better described as rules or even regulations since they seem not to have the force of Criminal or Civil Law to back them up, although criminal/civil sanctions are available where they synchronise with common law. I await with interest the opinions of those with more extensive knowledge than I, or alternatively I might just go to bed!

Elder - just to show I do a little bit of fact - the FA  is a statutory regulatory body that comes under the oversight if not direct control of the Parliamentary Select Committee for Culture / Sport etc. It’s rules and regulations are considered as ‘statutory instruments’ and not requiring specific Acts of Parliament. Furthermore there is an official agreement between the Crown Prosecution Service / Association of Chief Police Officers and the FA governing board that the FA will investigate all breaches of the FA regulations (from financial irregularities through to on field / in stadia breaches of the Laws of the game) - unless serious breaches or those with aggravating criminal factors. Decisions can be appealed from local FA’s through to the FA and then onto either the Court of Arbitration for Sport or in certain cases judicial review. 

All affiliated Leagues and clubs agree to these regulation so know the rules when they join - like it or not the process is transparent and has been in existence since the 1890’s.  

Hope that clarifies the matter for those who think the FA / CCFA act with autonomy. 

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12 minutes ago, Bobjfh said:

Elder - just to show I do a little bit of fact - the FA  is a statutory regulatory body that comes under the oversight if not direct control of the Parliamentary Select Committee for Culture / Sport etc. It’s rules and regulations are considered as ‘statutory instruments’ and not requiring specific Acts of Parliament. Furthermore there is an official agreement between the Crown Prosecution Service / Association of Chief Police Officers and the FA governing board that the FA will investigate all breaches of the FA regulations (from financial irregularities through to on field / in stadia breaches of the Laws of the game) - unless serious breaches or those with aggravating criminal factors. Decisions can be appealed from local FA’s through to the FA and then onto either the Court of Arbitration for Sport or in certain cases judicial review. 

All affiliated Leagues and clubs agree to these regulation so know the rules when they join - like it or not the process is transparent and has been in existence since the 1890’s.  

Hope that clarifies the matter for those who think the FA / CCFA act with autonomy. 

So in that case the fa is god and can invent laws to suit the circumstances, so much for famous British justice!

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1 hour ago, Bobjfh said:

Elder - just to show I do a little bit of fact - the FA  is a statutory regulatory body that comes under the oversight if not direct control of the Parliamentary Select Committee for Culture / Sport etc. It’s rules and regulations are considered as ‘statutory instruments’ and not requiring specific Acts of Parliament. Furthermore there is an official agreement between the Crown Prosecution Service / Association of Chief Police Officers and the FA governing board that the FA will investigate all breaches of the FA regulations (from financial irregularities through to on field / in stadia breaches of the Laws of the game) - unless serious breaches or those with aggravating criminal factors. Decisions can be appealed from local FA’s through to the FA and then onto either the Court of Arbitration for Sport or in certain cases judicial review. 

All affiliated Leagues and clubs agree to these regulation so know the rules when they join - like it or not the process is transparent and has been in existence since the 1890’s.  

Hope that clarifies the matter for those who think the FA / CCFA act with autonomy. 

Tell me how - if you are unable to prevent something happening - you can be found guilty of allowing it to happen. Further no panel I have ever addressed have been able to say how a club can realistically prevent spur of the moment happenings.  In your view it may be transparent but the only thing that is transparent, is the lack of any evidence or the failure of the FA to recognise the practicalities of these situations.  I think we should have moved on from the 1890's

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18 hours ago, Bobjfh said:

Home Waters - I never said I agreed with their findings or whether there is a better system, just answering the point over their authority to make decisions. 

The only thing I can say is - you believe its transparent, when it is not at all.  Its time some of the County FA's in the country summoned up the courage to put pressure on the Fa to the effect that a club can do absolutely nothing if unforseen trouble breaks out - yes they can have things in place if it does, but have no practical means what so ever to prevent it breaking out. I was involved once when a highly respected member of the club, never ever been in trouble with match officals or created any problems with anyone what so ever, suddenly went in to the referees room and created bedlam, the club were done for failing to control its officers, again, tell me how we could have stopped it. The only way you will stop anything at all it is to ban entry to everyone to the grounds.:yahoo:

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2 hours ago, Home Waters said:

The only thing I can say is - you believe its transparent, when it is not at all.  Its time some of the County FA's in the country summoned up the courage to put pressure on the Fa to the effect that a club can do absolutely nothing if unforseen trouble breaks out - yes they can have things in place if it does, but have no practical means what so ever to prevent it breaking out. I was involved once when a highly respected member of the club, never ever been in trouble with match officals or created any problems with anyone what so ever, suddenly went in to the referees room and created bedlam, the club were done for failing to control its officers, again, tell me how we could have stopped it. The only way you will stop anything at all it is to ban entry to everyone to the grounds.:yahoo:

I am beginning to wonder, if in fact that is what Cornwall fa want!

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That's down to the club then to look in to & investigate where these person(s) were there, &  how/why are they there. I'm afraid this episode doesn't take much working out ... We all know how, we all know why, & we all know who was responsible for this showing. 

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1 hour ago, leedsunited said:

That's down to the club then to look in to & investigate where these person(s) were there, &  how/why are they there. I'm afraid this episode doesn't take much working out ... We all know how, we all know why, & we all know who was responsible for this showing. 

Be very careful Leeds, The Cornwall Football Forum is no hiding place if the accused decides to take legal action on grounds of unfounded character assassanation.

You have already named his official capacity at St Blazey, so there is no doubt who you are referring to.
To the neutral fans you do appear to have issues with certain clubs on a regular basis , St Blazey being one of them.

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35 minutes ago, We Two said:

Be very careful Leeds, The Cornwall Football Forum is no hiding place if the accused decides to take legal action on grounds of unfounded character assassanation.

You have already named his official capacity at St Blazey, so there is no doubt who you are referring to.
To the neutral fans you do appear to have issues with certain clubs on a regular basis , St Blazey being one of them.

if the accused takes action against leedsunited from the Cornwall Football Forum? Will the jury be made up of Older, Elder and Big AL? Cant exactly take legal action over a fictional name on a forum

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1 hour ago, SCFC said:

if the accused takes action against leedsunited from the Cornwall Football Forum? Will the jury be made up of Older, Elder and Big AL? Cant exactly take legal action over a fictional name on a forum

Haha...I'm in favour of bringing back hanging - BEWARE!

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2 hours ago, SCFC said:

if the accused takes action against leedsunited from the Cornwall Football Forum? Will the jury be made up of Older, Elder and Big AL? Cant exactly take legal action over a fictional name on a forum

Read our quote which was that there is no hiding place etc, many of us on the forum know who he is, probably the majority FROM ST BLAZEY where Leeds spends some of his leisure time in the social club.
Identifying him would be a piece of cake for that club and its officials if they were so minded.
Flippant references to what could have been a serious event for all concerned will do little to diffuse a potentially corrosive atmosphere between fans.

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3 hours ago, SCFC said:

if the accused takes action against leedsunited from the Cornwall Football Forum? Will the jury be made up of Older, Elder and Big AL? Cant exactly take legal action over a fictional name on a forum

GUILTY AS (not yet) CHARGED! LIFE! (and that’s just for being a Leeds supporter!) Take him down!

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1 hour ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Dont think Leeds actually mentioned anyone by name? So no case to answer M'lud

 

1 hour ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

All done and dusted methinks.

The written word if seen to be defamatory by an agrieved person at whom the remarks were aimed, does not come under the jurisdiction of the F.A. M'lud.
The law states that defamation is defined as:-  Words that cause harm to your reputation or livelihood.
The law also states that:-  Libel is a written defamatory statement.
For those two reasons alone we thought that Leeds would appreciate our concern for his wellbeing, without predujice of course.
Hopefully the whole episode will be put to bed and we can get on with supporting teams that concentrate on their football, and the supporters who don't have an agenda of badmouthing particular clubs at every opportunity.
 

 

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On 02/02/2020 at 20:56, rocky170267 said:

Leeds , They were just having fun that got out of hand. It happens all over the country every day. 
i’m not saying what happened was alright but don’t think they set off in the morning with an agenda to cause trouble. Maybe they shouldn’t have been served in the bar ??? Many reasons I’m sure.

At the end of the day we all like to have some fun now and again ! Even you !!! Well. Maybe

I'm all for people having some fun at a football match. However, some of the antics that took place on the day in question, I'd seriously question whether that was supposed to be some fun or whether they went to the game to cause some trouble.

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It was made abundantly clear to the majority who the comments were aimed at, and it wasn't Mickey Mouse, to name the office he holds is enough.
If anyone has what they believe to be a legitimate doubt about the law, check out why a wolves fan has a total bill of £1,450 presented to him by the LAW courts for his behaviour at a match.
Theres no doubt that unpleasantries took place, and hopefully the perpetrator gets his come uppance, what we were warning Leeds against was naming a person as being responsible for inviting him to the ground in the knowledge that he would cause problems and was invited for that reason.

No one named ??

On 02/02/2020 at 20:03, leedsunited said:

brought to the game by a local clubs management

 

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Do you guys not think that the County FA would have sought advice from the FA's legal team(s) regarding this, so as not to do anything wrong and to ensure their actions are legal and justified? They don't just pull decisions out of their arse! They ensure that before taking any action, especially action such as this, they are fully aware of the law and any other circumstances. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Do you guys not think that the County FA would have sought advice from the FA's legal team(s) regarding this, so as not to do anything wrong and to ensure their actions are legal and justified? They don't just pull decisions out of their arse! They ensure that before taking any action, especially action such as this, they are fully aware of the law and any other circumstances. 

 

If you believe that! I certainly don’t!

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55 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Do you guys not think that the County FA would have sought advice from the FA's legal team(s) regarding this, so as not to do anything wrong and to ensure their actions are legal and justified? They don't just pull decisions out of their arse! They ensure that before taking any action, especially action such as this, they are fully aware of the law and any other circumstances. 

Our post was about advice to an individual who had made certain allegations of a certain calibre about another individual, nothing of which would involve the F.A. unless by choice.

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3 hours ago, Jacob Englefield said:

I'm all for people having some fun at a football match. However, some of the antics that took place on the day in question, I'd seriously question whether that was supposed to be some fun or whether they went to the game to cause some trouble.

If letting off a handheld flare is so criminal then lighting sparklers and firelighters must be as well !

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7 minutes ago, BIG AL said:

If letting off a handheld flare is so criminal then lighting sparklers and firelighters must be as well !

This has already been covered... Scroll up.

It is illegal to use flares/pyrotechnics at a stadium - a sparkler I would imagine falls into that category. It isn't illegal to use a sparkler outside a football stadium's grounds! There's a difference.

@We Two my comment was aimed at those talking about the whole thing with law and how the FA can charge individuals and/or clubs. 

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On 06/02/2020 at 21:36, BIG AL said:

If letting off a handheld flare is so criminal then lighting sparklers and firelighters must be as well !

Whilst I can see the comparison you are trying to make (at least I think I can), you've clearly forgotten the amount of fumes that is released when the different pyrotechnics you mentioned above are let off. There is a clear difference between the fumes let off from a flare compared to that of a sparkler.

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35 minutes ago, Jacob Englefield said:

Whilst I can see the comparison you are trying to make (at least I think I can), you've clearly forgotten the amount of fumes that is released when the different pyrotechnics you mentioned above are let off. There is a clear difference between the fumes let off from a flare compared to that of a sparkler.

 

35 minutes ago, Jacob Englefield said:

Whilst I can see the comparison you are trying to make (at least I think I can), you've clearly forgotten the amount of fumes that is released when the different pyrotechnics you mentioned above are let off. There is a clear difference between the fumes let off from a flare compared to that of a sparkler.

From the photo that has be published the perpetrator was a long way from anyone else.

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23 hours ago, BIG AL said:

 

From the photo that has be published the perpetrator was a long way from anyone else.

The photograph shows a split second in time, who (apart from those present) knows where he was a second or two sooner or later?

Besides which; anyone who is stupid/mad enough to light a flare at busy football club full of families with little children, is surely quite capable of throwing it, causing untold injuries.

There is a reason that it’s illegal BIG AL, some committee has given it loads of thought and decided that it’s dangerous - simples! 

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31 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

The photograph shows a split second in time, who (apart from those present) knows where he was a second or two sooner or later?

Besides which; anyone who is stupid/mad enough to light a flare at busy football club full of families with little children, is surely quite capable of throwing it, causing untold injuries.

There is a reason that it’s illegal BIG AL, some committee has given it loads of thought and decided that it’s dangerous - simples! 

Or another case of health and safety stupidity!

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