Post now not showing re Falmouth v St Blazey match

[Dave Deacon]

Re the post : Proud of Falmouth Town that was added to the forum Saturday and subsequently removed.

To avoid anyone else contacting me regarding it not showing any more, as far as I am aware it hasn’t been removed by any of us on behalf of the forum and so therefore who ever started the thread must have done so.

I would imagine the clubs might have perhaps said to the person who started the post that to avoid any further bad publicity it might be wise to delete it.

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Sub judice perhaps?

Certainly very bad publicity! 

[The Town Man]

1 minute ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Sub judice perhaps?

Better Google that. Latin is a bit rusty!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 minute ago, The Town Man said:

Better Google that. Latin is a bit rusty!

Cases going to court and not allowed to put too much in the public domain or a possible unfair trial outcome.

[le boss]

8 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Cases going to court and not allowed to put too much in the public domain or a possible unfair trial outcome.

Its a yob letting off a flare and failure to control the fans not the Brinks Mat robbery lol

[BIG AL]

14 minutes ago, le boss said:

Its a yob letting off a flare and failure to control the fans not the Brinks Mat robbery lol

It is all completely out of proportion!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

19 minutes ago, le boss said:

Its a yob letting off a flare and failure to control the fans not the Brinks Mat robbery lol

I did say perhaps.

No doubt it will fill the local rags though.

[Quiet Man]

Flares are one thing, but when someone throws a beer glass through the window of a passing car that is criminal. Could have caused a serious accident. If you think that is ok then you really do need help.

[le boss]

1 hour ago, Quiet Man said:

Flares are one thing, but when someone throws a beer glass through the window of a passing car that is criminal. Could have caused a serious accident. If you think that is ok then you really do need help.

A broken windscreen IS a serious incident but i was talking about event inside the ground but thanks for your concern

[Leroy]

3 hours ago, Quiet Man said:

Flares are one thing, but when someone throws a beer glass through the window of a passing car that is criminal. Could have caused a serious accident. If you think that is ok then you really do need help.

Think you'll find that throwing a beer glass at a vehicle or being in posssion of a flare / smoke bomb at a football match are both classified as criminal offences. The attached is worth a read.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Smoke-Bombs-Flares-and-Fireworks-Factsheet-for-FSF.pdf

Out of interest how come an individual is permitted to have a glass or bottle at a football match, surely FA and Sport Stadia rules do not permit this. 

 

[yeww]

35 minutes ago, Leroy said:

Think you'll find that throwing a beer glass at a vehicle or being in posssion of a flare / smoke bomb at a football match are both classified as criminal offences. The attached is worth a read.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Smoke-Bombs-Flares-and-Fireworks-Factsheet-for-FSF.pdf

Out of interest how come an individual is permitted to have a glass or bottle at a football match, surely FA and Sport Stadia rules do not permit this. 

 

There is an element of trust here, self policing to an extent. How often do you go to a local football game and events like this happen? the individual is a full blown cretin.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Leroy said:

Think you'll find that throwing a beer glass at a vehicle or being in posssion of a flare / smoke bomb at a football match are both classified as criminal offences. The attached is worth a read.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Smoke-Bombs-Flares-and-Fireworks-Factsheet-for-FSF.pdf

Out of interest how come an individual is permitted to have a glass or bottle at a football match, surely FA and Sport Stadia rules do not permit this. 

 

I think the little man threw it from the carpark outside the ground, I assume the licence extends to outside the club! But not the ground.

 

[Leroy]

37 minutes ago, yeww said:

There is an element of trust here, self policing to an extent. How often do you go to a local football game and events like this happen? the individual is a full blown cretin.

Certainly don't condone the action of the perpetrator/s but don't think you can rely on self policing when you regularly have hundreds of spectators attending a football match week in / week out.

Surely any host club should risk assess every fixture and have action plans in place to reduce the risk of potential scenarios /  incidents. 

Out of curiosity how many easily identifiable stewards were at Saturdays match ? 

[Dave Deacon]

4 minutes ago, Leroy said:

Certainly don't condone the action of the perpetrator/s but don't think you can rely on self policing when you regularly have hundreds of spectators attending a football match week in / week out.

Surely any host club should risk assess every fixture and have action plans in place to reduce the risk of potential scenarios /  incidents. 

Out of curiosity how many easily identifiable stewards where at Saturdays match ? 

Irrespective if there was one or one hundred identifiable stewards, there’s no excuse for the behaviour we’re being told took place.

Previous weeks with similar numbers, there’s been no problem! 

 

[Leroy]

Just now, Dave Deacon said:

Irrespective if there was one or one hundred identifiable stewards, there’s no excuse for the behaviour we’re being told took place! 

 

Totally agree, however every club has a duty of care to every spectator attending a match and surely there must be guidelines towards spectator to steward ratios. 

From the pictures that have been published, both by the press and on social media, not a single easily identifiable steward can been seen.

Personally do not consider self-policing to be the answer when such large crowds are envisaged. 

[Dave Deacon]

Not really a bigger crowd than all the other games at Bickland this season so why the need for stewards.

 

[Leroy]

13 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Not really a bigger crowd than all the other games at Bickland this season so why the need for stewards.

 

According to SWPL web-site, average gate for Bickland Park league fixtures this season 200. Saturdays crowd at 410 more than double 😂 

[We Two]

9 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Not really a bigger crowd than all the other games at Bickland this season so why the need for stewards.

 

As a potential deterrent to the perpetrator we would suggest, plus you will find that at other publically attended events,  stewards are not only obligatory but so is first aid for the public attending the event.
Failure to adhere to those requirements is a reason to close an event if the police consider there is a perceived danger to the public.
Stewards will not stop the idiot element from attending a match and causing trouble, but at least the paying public are entitled to feel they have some form of protection if needed.
 

[Dave Deacon]

11 minutes ago, Leroy said:

According to SWPL web-site, average gate for Bickland Park league fixtures this season 200. Saturdays crowd at 410 more than double 😂 

And 690 the week before in the league cup and no problems whatsoever.

[Mike Odgers]

2 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

And 690 the week before in the league cup and no problems whatsoever.

Other  gates .254  v Wadebridge- 345 v Helston CSC-486 v Longlevens Vase-364 v Helston League-253 v Mousehole

The 410 is not included in the Latest league average which ould push it up yo           225 ave.

12 League & Cup games at Bickland 3531 giving an average of 294

[We Two]

Argyle have thousands some weeks with no problems at all, then there are some weeks where they do.

The idea that we had X number last week with no problem, so we won't have a problem next week doesn't work unfortunately, the clientele changes week on week.

Based on that philosophy, our house didn't catch fire last year should we cancel our fire insurance ????

[Dave Deacon]

And the clientele won’t always be people lighting flares thank goodness ! 

[le boss]

40 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

And the clientele won’t always be people lighting flares thank goodness ! 

Sorry Dave but it's that short-sighted type of opinion that will lead to trouble. No one likes to see stewards but they are primarily seen as a preventative measure and that is what is being suggested on this topic. It is suggested that had they been present then all this trouble may have been avoided. Falmouth would have had a notion that strangers were going to turn up because apparently it was all over social media leading up to the game, so is it the club playing fast and loose with people's safety? We all like to see the F-Troop in all their glory but sadly no matter their make-up, some will see them purely as a "target" like rival supporters of old. 

[Leroy]

15 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

And the clientele won’t always be people lighting flares thank goodness ! 

Agree also.

Bottom line however is if any individual / organisation is hosting an event, with the expectation of hundreds of attendees, they will be required to demostrate, should the unforeseeable occurr, that they had preventive measures in place to reduce the associated risk. 

If you are bored this evening, and have £95 to spare, why not download The Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds 'Green Guide' to learn more. 

Not lived in Cornwall long, but I'm sure the County Council will also have a dedicated Sports Ground Safety adviser who will offer guidance to anyone who is interested / needs it. 

The major difference between Criminal and Health & Safety Law in this country is quite simple

Criminal Law - incident until proven guilty

Health & Safe Law - guilty until proven incident

 

[Marcus Grose]

13 minutes ago, le boss said:

Sorry Dave but it's that short-sighted type of opinion that will lead to trouble. No one likes to see stewards but they are primarily seen as a preventative measure and that is what is being suggested on this topic. It is suggested that had they been present then all this trouble may have been avoided. 

At the Falmouth v Saltash final at Priory Park there were stewards present.In front of me one of the F-Troop boys lit a flare,he was asked to put it out by a steward,he laughed in the stewards face and just let it carry on burning.

[le boss]

21 minutes ago, Monsoon said:

At the Falmouth v Saltash final at Priory Park there were stewards present.In front of me one of the F-Troop boys lit a flare,he was asked to put it out by a steward,he laughed in the stewards face and just let it carry on burning.

Still not a reason not to have them - unfortunately you get good and bad ones, but if you are their employer you can call their tune

[mattelot]

3 hours ago, Mike Odgers said:

Other  gates .254  v Wadebridge- 345 v Helston CSC-486 v Longlevens Vase-364 v Helston League-253 v Mousehole

The 410 is not included in the Latest league average which ould push it up yo           225 ave.

12 League & Cup games at Bickland 3531 giving an average of 294

And no trouble at all mike .

1 hour ago, Leroy said:

Agree also.

Bottom line however is if any individual / organisation is hosting an event, with the expectation of hundreds of attendees, they will be required to demostrate, should the unforeseeable occurr, that they had preventive measures in place to reduce the associated risk. 

If you are bored this evening, and have £95 to spare, why not download The Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds 'Green Guide' to learn more. 

Not lived in Cornwall long, but I'm sure the County Council will also have a dedicated Sports Ground Safety adviser who will offer guidance to anyone who is interested / needs it. 

The major difference between Criminal and Health & Safety Law in this country is quite simple

Criminal Law - incident until proven guilty

Health & Safe Law - guilty until proven incident

 

Think you mean innocent . Best get it right as Le Boss hates bad grammar and spelling .👍

[le boss]

15 minutes ago, mattelot said:

And no trouble at all mike .

Think you mean innocent . Best get it right as Le Boss hates bad grammar and spelling .👍

You mean "Best get it right BECAUSE Le Boss hates bad grammar" 👍

[We Two]

Has anyone considered how their club would stand if some one was injured as a result of violent conduct and an insurance claim ensued.?
If  due care had not been taken to at least try to ensure the safety of its supporters, it's very doubtful that an insurance company would accept liability and committee members of the club involved would legally be held culpable.
We are probably moving in to the realms of the unlikely we would hope, but as in the case of Falmouth they thought it unlikely that someone would be so idiotic as to approach opposition supporters with a lighted flare in the hope of causing trouble.
Surely a couple of fellas with high viz coats emblazoned with the clubs name on them to indicate their authority to act on behalf of the club would be preferable to no authority at all.      
No need for any physical intervention, just advice that the police would be called if the problem persisted.
We can bury our heads in the sand and hope that all goes well, but if it doesn't the final outcome is not likely to be very palatable, and clubs should recognise the duty of care they should take to protect their paying customers.
This applies to all organisations and clubs that entertain the paying public, not just Falmouth or St Blazey !

 

[Dave Deacon]

4 hours ago, Leroy said:

Agree also.

Bottom line however is if any individual / organisation is hosting an event, with the expectation of hundreds of attendees, they will be required to demostrate, should the unforeseeable occurr, that they had preventive measures in place to reduce the associated risk. 

If you are bored this evening, and have £95 to spare, why not download The Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds 'Green Guide' to learn more. 

Not lived in Cornwall long, but I'm sure the County Council will also have a dedicated Sports Ground Safety adviser who will offer guidance to anyone who is interested / needs it. 

The major difference between Criminal and Health & Safety Law in this country is quite simple

Criminal Law - incident until proven guilty

Health & Safe Law - guilty until proven incident

 

Re: the safety at sports ground guide, the act applies to those with licensed sports grounds, doesn't come down to our level of the game. Only grounds in area are Home Park, Plainmoor and St James park who need a safety certificate from council and police.

Other sports grounds may also have it eg Somerset cc, Exeter chiefs

[Leroy]

2 hours ago, mattelot said:

And no trouble at all mike .

Think you mean innocent . Best get it right as Le Boss hates bad grammar and spelling .👍

Your Honour - I please guilty to the innocent charge 😂😂😂

[Leroy]

59 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Re: the safety at sports ground guide, the act applies to those with licensed sports grounds, doesn't come down to our level of the game. Only grounds in area are Home Park, Plainmoor and St James park who need a safety certificate from council and police.

Other sports grounds may also have it eg Somerset cc, Exeter chiefs

Think you'll find The Green Guide covers sports grounds from grassroot level right up to stadiums.

Consider it similar to a Health & Safety Guideline, it may not be law but it's is what any individual or organisation will be tried against in a court of law.

Anyway, based on a conservative average gate receipt of £1,000  / home fixture, along with, what was quoted on social media earlier this week, a £2,000 match day bar take, why would any club not employee a couple of stewards for 3 to 4 hours on a Saturday afternoon.

Out of interest, any stewards at Truro City home fixtures ?

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Yes Truro have a few stewards on match days.

Might be advisable for Falmouth to do the same with those numbers attending games.

Certainly I've seen the odd beer glass slipped in through the gate late on in a game.

[We Two]

Taking due care regarding the safety of the public that you encourage to enter an area that you are resposible for, is a legal requirement regardless of whether its a 20,000 capacity stadium or a toddlers play group of 20,
That criteria also applies to sports groups at any level, or in a nutshell, any public event.
It would also be worth checking if your Public Liability Policy covers you just for an accidental incident or an event like the one at Falmouth which could be construed as malice with intent and a whole new insurance ball game. ( No pun intended )
The idea that stadia rules and performance licences don't apply at a certain level, offers a false sense of security if used as a reason to avoid our responsibility to public safety.
Much as in the case of selling alcohol to the public, the licencee would be ill advised not to have adequate insurance to cover disorder.

[Roche Raider]

Sad thing curtailing all of this, is that thuggish and hooligan behaviour has been embedded in english society for years; whether you're pro brexit/pro EU, there has been a distinct rise in this rhetoric of saying and doing exactly what you please, no matter how vile or toxic the outcome is, and sadly this leads to violence, thuggery, affray and public disturbance. Seemed to kick off around the London riots in 2011 and has escalated ever since.

Call me dramatic if you will but, take the examples outside Ed Woodwards home last night; the message is loud and clear; Not happy with something? Be disgusting, be horrible, be vile and maybe you'll get your own way.

Sad state of affairs in this country we call 'Great' Britain

[Dave Deacon]

3 hours ago, We Two said:

Taking due care regarding the safety of the public that you encourage to enter an area that you are resposible for, is a legal requirement regardless of whether its a 20,000 capacity stadium or a toddlers play group of 20,
That criteria also applies to sports groups at any level, or in a nutshell, any public event.
It would also be worth checking if your Public Liability Policy covers you just for an accidental incident or an event like the one at Falmouth which could be construed as malice with intent and a whole new insurance ball game. ( No pun intended )
The idea that stadia rules and performance licences don't apply at a certain level, offers a false sense of security if used as a reason to avoid our responsibility to public safety.
Much as in the case of selling alcohol to the public, the licencee would be ill advised not to have adequate insurance to cover disorder.

It’s a FA and league requirement to have public liability insurance, county FA level used to suffice, but clubs from step 6 upwards have to have a higher coverage. Insurance cover is checked each summer as part of a club’s affiliation.

[Jeff Chambers]

I would like to say I deleted my (PROUD OF FALMOUTH TOWN) post because the comments  were getting far too damning and political and innocent people like Shaun Vincent (St Blazey manager) was getting undeserved stick from certain members of this forum. I know Shaun really well and he is totally innocent of anything to do with this. He invited a handful of mates down to watch his team play at Bickland Park, those mates were also mates of mine including work colleagues, these lads watch St Blazey regularly and there is never any issues. Some idiots infiltrated the group that were not friends of anyone and they caused all the trouble. END OF !!!. It could of happened at any ground. Falmouth Towns F-Troop did not respond at all. The fan who was approaching our Packet end with a lit flare, which he could have thrown into a stand full of women and children, was ushered away by our fans and then thankfully a couple of St Blazey players stepped in and led him away before he jumped into the woods at the bottom end of the ground. There were other well documented incidents that I do not need to mention.

To say I am gutted at the events of Saturday is an understatement, but I can assure everyone, when St Blazey travel to Bickland Park on the 25th February to play us in the Walter C Parsons cup quarter final then will be welcomed with open arms. St Blazey are a great club.

Looking forward I think the hiring of matchday stewards or a security firm for the really big games would not be a bad idea. But those decisions are not mine to make.

The F-Troop will stand together through the good times and the bad. We will always sing loud and proud and support our team.

I have not put this comment up to attract a load of negative comments so please refrain from doing so. Jeff

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Jeff Chambers said:

The F-Troop will stand together through the good times and the bad. We will always sing loud and proud and support our team.

I suppose for some individuals it is in your face, loud and antagonistic Jeff, theres no accounting for some peoples view on it all.

Boom boxes, drum bashing flag waving, continual singing is not what a lot of people go to football for, more your continental mentality I suppose.

Cant please everyone I s'pose.

Myself couldn't care less and carry on if you like it. 

Best of luck from me.

[We Two]

56 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

It’s a FA and league requirement to have public liability insurance, county FA level used to suffice, but clubs from step 6 upwards have to have a higher coverage. Insurance cover is checked each summer as part of a club’s affiliation.

That's good news providing the check involves confirmation that the insurers liability covers the criteria that step 6 upwards demands.
With 40 clubs in the S.W.P.L. alone it's likely that several insurance companies and policys are involved, so if the question posed is do you have the required insurance answer    yes or no, there is a good chance that some who honestly believe they have the right cover, may fall short of the mark.
Unless of course the C.C.F.A. or an F.A. representative physically checks the policy, or unless clubs have had catagoricall details of what is required to be included in their policy.
A lifetime of dealing with insurance companies teaches you to not only check every word in a policy, but also the possible interpretation of them.
We  need to point out that it's not our intention to alter the opinions of the people who have an opposite view to ours, but simply to point out the possible predicament that a club or supporter could innocently land themselves in through lack of the appropiate knowledge of a particular situation.
Good luck to Falmouth, St Blazey, and the rest of the S.W.P.L. for the rest of the season, and to their law abiding supporters.

[Jeff Chambers]

15 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

I suppose for some individuals it is in your face, loud and antagonistic Jeff, theres no accounting for some peoples view on it all.

Boom boxes, drum bashing flag waving, continual singing is not what a lot of people go to football for, more your continental mentality I suppose.

Cant please everyone I s'pose.

Myself couldn't care less and carry on if you like it. 

Best of luck from me.

The team love it and so does every team we have visited this season Baks.  Or we could create a zero atmosphere and play in silence I suppose lol. Go easy pal. 

[Quiet Man]

At the end of the day you can have all the stewards/security that you want but if someone is intent on committing an offence, then they will. Flares were set off at the Tranmere Rovers v Manchester United game and I reckon that there was security at that game but it didn't stop it happening. 

[BIG AL]

1 hour ago, Quiet Man said:

At the end of the day you can have all the stewards/security that you want but if someone is intent on committing an offence, then they will. Flares were set off at the Tranmere Rovers v Manchester United game and I reckon that there was security at that game but it didn't stop it happening. 

All this ridiculous fuss when there was a murder committed 40 miles up the road!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

2 hours ago, Jeff Chambers said:

The team love it and so does every team we have visited this season Baks.  Or we could create a zero atmosphere and play in silence I suppose lol. Go easy pal. 

I'm not talking about players Jeff more spectators.

For some of them it could be quite annoying,  they're going to a football match not a music concert or rave!

For me enjoy it while you can, I'm 70% deaf so make as much noise as you like mate...lol

[We Two]

17 minutes ago, BIG AL said:

All this ridiculous fuss when there was a murder committed 40 miles up the road!

Without downgrading the tragedy 40 miles up the road, where's the connection with a debate on safety at football grounds on a football forum Al.

[BIG AL]

3 hours ago, We Two said:

Without downgrading the tragedy 40 miles up the road, where's the connection with a debate on safety at football grounds on a football forum Al.

Only the fact that so much fuss is being made over someone with a flare when more of a police presence would be advantageous at a murder scene and all the paperwork that is going to follow the lighted flare.

[leedsunited]

Interesting to see if these 'supporters' turn up on Saturday at Bodmin ... I along with many others think they attended as it was a game where they knew the f-troop were in full force & went along under the instructions of a certain person to attract attention. What sort of person let's off a smoke bomb in a bar area full of women & children? 

Why have St.Blazey now had two separate incidents in the last 6 weeks? ( Liskeard & now Falmouth ) 

I'm a guy lives close to the Village & have been around the club for years, never any issues with supporters in the days of Mewton, Hooper, Oaten, Philp etc ... Why now?? Who brings these idiots along? It's not like the side are good & attracting more support .. ? The worst playing side the club has seen in years, so why the interest now?  I think the club & committee know the answer, I think the CCFA know the answer, not long before the Sponsors are going to read this & the club if they don't act are going to be in real trouble .. 

[cornishteddyboy]

Do you not think, that posting on here and other social media, how super and great this F-Troop is, how they are always there wherever Falmouth are playing, making a noise, always better in supporting their team than anyone other team's supporters, opens them up to trouble from other supporters who will go along to matches featuring Falmouth, just to get a reaction.

Happened in the 70's and 80's and now starting again.

Trouble is starting to follow the F-Troop around like it did before.

Time to reign back the bragging.

[mattelot]

9 hours ago, Roche Raider said:

Sad thing curtailing all of this, is that thuggish and hooligan behaviour has been embedded in english society for years; whether you're pro brexit/pro EU, there has been a distinct rise in this rhetoric of saying and doing exactly what you please, no matter how vile or toxic the outcome is, and sadly this leads to violence, thuggery, affray and public disturbance. Seemed to kick off around the London riots in 2011 and has escalated ever since.

Call me dramatic if you will but, take the examples outside Ed Woodwards home last night; the message is loud and clear; Not happy with something? Be disgusting, be horrible, be vile and maybe you'll get your own way.

Sad state of affairs in this country we call 'Great' Britain

Who's Ed Woodward ?

[BIG AL]

13 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

Do you not think, that posting on here and other social media, how super and great this F-Troop is, how they are always there wherever Falmouth are playing, making a noise, always better in supporting their team than anyone other team's supporters, opens them up to trouble from other supporters who will go along to matches featuring Falmouth, just to get a reaction.

Happened in the 70's and 80's and now starting again.

Trouble is starting to follow the F-Troop around like it did before.

Time to reign back the bragging.

It is good to have some rousing vocal support at matches, that is what football is all about. The last match at Bickland I watched two years ago had 50 people watching and the loudest noise was the refs whistle. Because of those circumstances, enough was enough and have never been back.

[rocky170267]

19 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Yes Truro have a few stewards on match days.

Might be advisable for Falmouth to do the same with those numbers attending games.

Certainly I've seen the odd beer glass slipped in through the gate late on in a game.

Proper qualified stewards or a couple of old guys with a yellow tabard on?