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Keith B

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Being an unsophisticated chap, schooled in the 1940's - 50's and taking technical subjects at night school and day release as an apprentice thereafter, there may well be an easy uncomplicated answer to this question, of which I am ignorant ?

When ever blood is seen on a player's shirt, face etc, all is panic until the shirt has been changed and the player cleaned up, bandaged if required etc, and at times even the pitch is disinfected. 

Why is it then, that constantly we see players spitting, coughing up phlegm and blowing snot out of their nose's all over the pitch and this is accepted as ok or, the norm ? Surely saliva, phlegm and snot pose an infection danger to players who, by nature of the game fall, slide and generally go over in this filth under their feet ?

I would have thought that these horrible habits pose a health hazard along with blood, or, perhaps I'm completely wrong ? 

As an aside to this, I'm sick to death of having to watch all this spitting etc, when ever the cameras close in on a player's face - which is far too often in my opinion. Sorry to bring this subject up, but we see so much of it these days.

When I played all those years ago, mother used to make sure I had a pocket sewn into the inside of my shorts in which I always carried a handkerchief. Don't laugh, it's just the way I was brought up !

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Well said Keith B your comments don't just make sense, but are worthy of comment from the heirachy at H.Q.should you enquire.

Sorry to say however that the problems you list are commonly accepted by the many in todays culture, and the problem is unlikely to be addressed.
Without being too descriptive, blood is a very visual thing that stays on the body and is quickly apparent,  other problems you describe are not unless the perpetrator is observed doing it.
Spitting on someone deliberately is a sending off offence, but if accidental it's not, which indicates that spitting and the other actions you describe are acceptable. UGH !!

 

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Keith, I agree 100% it is disgusting and as you say totally avoidable. You only see sanctions applied if the spit is clearly directed at somebody. Admittedly most bacteria in human secretions need a warm wet environment to survive, so will die off in dry, cold conditions, but this year it has been warm and wet all the way! I’m not quite sure how you can tackle this issue, but certainly it’s unpleasant to observe and as you say, potentially harmful to play on.

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Thank you We Two and Bruegel. Yes, I guess this horrible subject is here to stay, sadly. How could you stop it - except perhaps by appealing to the better side of player's characters ?

I don't suppose they give it a second thought. I don't remember it it my day. Sometimes perhaps you'd swallow or catch a fly/midge in your mouth and spit it out. I suppose it's the fact that you can't watch a game on TV without seeing close ups of players faces and invariably they spit, or worse. I can't say it's so noticeable when watching live football from the stand, so it gets back to televised matches and the umpteen times they show the players faces close up.

Maybe the TV companies could have a word with the camera crews (?) - not so many close ups of faces. Would't stop the spitting etc, of course.

Again, sorry it's not a nice subject. My wife made the comment the other weekend saying, every time she looked up when football was on (which isn't often 😀) a player always seemed to be blowing his nose out onto the pitch. There we are - just thought I'd mention it. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Keith B said:

Thank you We Two and Bruegel. Yes, I guess this horrible subject is here to stay, sadly. How could you stop it - except perhaps by appealing to the better side of player's characters ?

I don't suppose they give it a second thought. I don't remember it it my day. Sometimes perhaps you'd swallow or catch a fly/midge in your mouth and spit it out. I suppose it's the fact that you can't watch a game on TV without seeing close ups of players faces and invariably they spit, or worse. I can't say it's so noticeable when watching live football from the stand, so it gets back to televised matches and the umpteen times they show the players faces close up.

Maybe the TV companies could have a word with the camera crews (?) - not so many close ups of faces. Would't stop the spitting etc, of course.

Again, sorry it's not a nice subject. My wife made the comment the other weekend saying, every time she looked up when football was on (which isn't often 😀) a player always seemed to be blowing his nose out onto the pitch. There we are - just thought I'd mention it. 

 

I do rather like the idea of appealing to the better side of player’s characters! You must know some very different players than I! I suspect that those players with a better side to their nature already keep their bodily fluids to themselves.

Older, I am also impressed with the “smack in the mouth” sanction. I presume that this is enshrined within the Laws of the Game, along with sin bins and yellow and red cards. Come on Referees, fists before notebooks!

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1 hour ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

I do rather like the idea of appealing to the better side of player’s characters! You must know some very different players than I! I suspect that those players with a better side to their nature already keep their bodily fluids to themselves.

Older, I am also impressed with the “smack in the mouth” sanction. I presume that this is enshrined within the Laws of the Game, along with sin bins and yellow and red cards. Come on Referees, fists before notebooks!

I had my share of reds and yellows...lol

If sin bins had been around I'd have been called dusty!

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5 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

I do rather like the idea of appealing to the better side of player’s characters! You must know some very different players than I! I suspect that those players with a better side to their nature already keep their bodily fluids to themselves.

Older, I am also impressed with the “smack in the mouth” sanction. I presume that this is enshrined within the Laws of the Game, along with sin bins and yellow and red cards. Come on Referees, fists before notebooks!

Well Bruegel in my experience most folk do have a better side, if you bother to try and find it. Over the seasons latterly, I got to talking to a number of players who, yes had so much enthusiasm on the pitch and sometimes this ended in punches thrown, and the language got pretty ripe too. However experience over the years taught me, that often people respond best when you a) don't use bad language yourself and b) appeal to their better side by first a little flattery, for example - 'you're a good player John/ Dave/whoever and you don't need to get involved - just run rings around them and don't retaliate'.  

My years in the police force in London found me dealing with all sorts of people in all sorts of circumstances. Many times I've taken the loudest mouth (often through drink), taken him to another room and told him to calm down (I'm not swearing at you - so don't swear at me) sat him down and just chatted to him. Tried to give advice and usually he responded well enough. Many despairing fathers would say, 'I don't know what's the matter with him officer, he just won't listen to me'. 'Well he listened to me Mr  . . . '. Often this approach brought success or some times chance for further chats with the lad. No it didn't always work, but more often than not, it did bear some fruit.

True - I'm sure some times the good results were because the advice came from a police officer -perhaps therefore from a source they hadn't expect it from. I apprehended a man once, took him out of the immediate surroundings and drove around with him in the police car for about half an hour, before taking him home again.

When he got out of the car he said - 'I used to think all coppers were bastards' - I know better now, thank you sir. Most people, even the most objectionable ones do respond - perhaps the fact that someone actually cares and listens to them brings this response. 

5 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

The aids virus can live for 3 days outside of the body I have read!

Spitting in my day brought an immediate smack in the mouth. 

Only if he spat at you older ? In that case I would have too smacked him too.

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Gosh Keith, I wish that the policemen of today could spend half-an-hour putting someone straight. In my experience; every ten seconds a disembodied voice over the radio tells them to do something else, somewhere else (or it’s loudly for some other officer, and you can’t hear a word that your copper’s saying anyway)!

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I must admit when I played all those years ago I always remember when having to spit and yes we all did it.  I used to trod on it to dig it into the ground because even then I knew that I would not have wanted to put my hand or face on it when falling.  It does though raise a point because boxers can split their eyes open and be streaming with blood yet the fight goes on.  Never understood that.   

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On 14/01/2020 at 22:22, Bruegel the Elder said:

Gosh Keith, I wish that the policemen of today could spend half-an-hour putting someone straight. In my experience; every ten seconds a disembodied voice over the radio tells them to do something else, somewhere else (or it’s loudly for some other officer, and you can’t hear a word that your copper’s saying anyway)!

I'm afraid the whole way policing is done these days Bruegel is different. They look for a different breed of person these days when recruiting, sadly. I along with many other ex police officers I talk with agree, today we would never get into the job. Attitudes to the way policing is done these days has changed. 

The whole system needs shaking up. You don't need to apologise for being a law enforcement officer. The old days of policing were better. They need to get back to it. 

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Keith B ,I know its a non football topic . I did 30 years in Norfolk , starting back in 1970 , and I totally agree with you . Life and people have changed tremendously in that time .Peoples values and dignity have gone , even the grammar has changed  I was like , rather than I said . he was like 6 foot etc . How could you take a witness statement of someone speaking like that ? . I know that I wouldn't get in now , I've no qualifications other than a degree of stupidity  . Even the men at the top have changed there's no family feeling  anymore , possibly all jobs are like that , each man to himself . I'm going to the funeral of one of my old governors tomorrow . He wouldn't let me transfer to another division because I played football and cricket and he couldn't afford to lose any one who played sport , so he did a deal and promised me a beat  within the division  where the village had football and cricket teams if I withdrew my request . As it turned out he did me a huge favour which has changed my and my families lives . I owe a lot to the man , . 40 years on and  sport no longer features in the police service  which is a great pity .

Apologies for straying off the subject of football Mr. Deacon  , but I've just been sorting a complex league management problem out and its raining hard so I've nothing better to do than bore people with old stories .

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4 hours ago, fenman said:

Keith B ,I know its a non football topic . I did 30 years in Norfolk , starting back in 1970 , and I totally agree with you . Life and people have changed tremendously in that time .Peoples values and dignity have gone , even the grammar has changed  I was like , rather than I said . he was like 6 foot etc . How could you take a witness statement of someone speaking like that ? . I know that I wouldn't get in now , I've no qualifications other than a degree of stupidity  . Even the men at the top have changed there's no family feeling  anymore , possibly all jobs are like that , each man to himself . I'm going to the funeral of one of my old governors tomorrow . He wouldn't let me transfer to another division because I played football and cricket and he couldn't afford to lose any one who played sport , so he did a deal and promised me a beat  within the division  where the village had football and cricket teams if I withdrew my request . As it turned out he did me a huge favour which has changed my and my families lives . I owe a lot to the man , . 40 years on and  sport no longer features in the police service  which is a great pity .

Apologies for straying off the subject of football Mr. Deacon  , but I've just been sorting a complex league management problem out and its raining hard so I've nothing better to do than bore people with old stories .

Well fenman so you were in 'the job' too. PM me if you would like a chat over old times. You're certainly right - life has changed and so have people and their attitudes. It would be good to say for the better but  . . . I cant.

Values have changed and words like 'standards' and 'morals' are not wanted anymore. Thankfully not everyone is like that though. Take care sir and PM me if you wish. Don't feel obliged to - it was indeed a different world then. No that's wrong - same world - people have changed.

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On 15/01/2020 at 08:15, Keith B said:

I'm afraid the whole way policing is done these days Bruegel is different. They look for a different breed of person these days when recruiting, sadly - as evidenced by your average local Devon & Cornwall Police Officer. I, along with many other ex police officers I talk with agree, that today we would never get into the job. Attitudes to the way policing is done these days has changed. 

The whole system needs shaking up. You don't need to apologise for being a law enforcement officer. The old days of policing were better. They need to get back to it. 

There is a place for the new type of policing (data and intelligence driven), but I bemoan the lack of community presence these days. Around my way , the only time you see a Met Police office is either when they're screaming past in a police car or queuing in the local kebab shop at break time.  The only way to really understand what is going on at street level is to have feet on the ground, eyes and ears open and talking to people and building their trust. The only experience at lot of people have of the police is when they turn up mob handed in vans (especially in poorer and areas with a large non white community). Perhaps if some sort of rapport had built up with the local community, then things like the 2011 riots could have been headed off, and police may be able to get a better handle on the seemingly out of control drug dealing (only part of the solution, but that's a long conversation). 

In short, not in favour of the clip round the ear style of local policing, but a recognisable figure who is embedded in the local community would only be a good thing in my opinion. I do have a bit of knowledge on this as my brother is a serving officer, and one of my mates is a youth worker with Hackney Council.

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10 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Too many people,  not enough police, doctors, and help with anything anymore. 

My area has increased in population by 15,000+ in the last 10 years, no more police (less) no more doctors or new hospitals, no more dentists and so on.

It has to stop somewhere or it's all going to collapse! 

50,000 new nurses, 20,000 more police officers and 40 new hospitals on their way as we speak.  :rolleyes:

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12 hours ago, Way Of The Park said:

There is a place for the new type of policing (data and intelligence driven), but I bemoan the lack of community presence these days. Around my way , the only time you see a Met Police office is either when they're screaming past in a police car or queuing in the local kebab shop at break time.  The only way to really understand what is going on at street level is to have feet on the ground, eyes and ears open and talking to people and building their trust. The only experience at lot of people have of the police is when they turn up mob handed in vans (especially in poorer and areas with a large non white community). Perhaps if some sort of rapport had built up with the local community, then things like the 2011 riots could have been headed off, and police may be able to get a better handle on the seemingly out of control drug dealing (only part of the solution, but that's a long conversation). 

In short, not in favour of the clip round the ear style of local policing, but a recognisable figure who is embedded in the local community would only be a good thing in my opinion. I do have a bit of knowledge on this as my brother is a serving officer, and one of my mates is a youth worker with Hackney Council.

Yes ''community policing''. In my day these officers were called ''home beat' officers. Usually selected from PC's who had been in the force for a few years and who knew the ground and the people well. The officer would have a preference for a particular 'beat' and that would be their area of work when on duty. Usually working a 9am to 5pm shift. They would walk around getting to know people and gaining their trust. This was a useful avenue for information and the ''home beat'' officer would build up a rapport with people in the community.  Why it was dropped I don't know - I think they said falling numbers made the loss of an officer unworkable and he/she was needed to be with the rest of the relief. 

You're right WOTP - whilst a clip around the ear would work in some situations, these days somebody would take a snap of the incident on their phone and it would go viral headed 'police brutality'. Whatever we think about the way the streets should be policed, it must surely be realised that the present way is not working. The whole system of crime and punishment needs to be overhauled. New laws maybe - proper sentencing reflecting the measure of violence or the seriousness of the crime - more prisons (don't start letting criminals go because prisons are full) and more police officers on the streets. This means more officers employed ie, increased numbers. More civilian staff to carry out the many tasks at a police station that don't need to be done by a PC and more money for all forces to be properly manned and equipped. 

Law and order must be given priority or we will end up with anarchy. Yes the government need to properly finance the NHS, Education, all Emergency Services and the Armed Forces but we need a properly financed and fully manned police force or else the country will just implode. 

Back to Cornish Soccer perhaps ? 

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24 minutes ago, Keith B said:

Yes ''community policing''. In my day these officers were called ''home beat' officers. Usually selected from PC's who had been in the force for a few years and who knew the ground and the people well. The officer would have a preference for a particular 'beat' and that would be their area of work when on duty. Usually working a 9am to 5pm shift. They would walk around getting to know people and gaining their trust. This was a useful avenue for information and the ''home beat'' officer would build up a rapport with people in the community.  Why it was dropped I don't know - I think they said falling numbers made the loss of an officer unworkable and he/she was needed to be with the rest of the relief. 

You're right WOTP - whilst a clip around the ear would work in some situations, these days somebody would take a snap of the incident on their phone and it would go viral headed 'police brutality'. Whatever we think about the way the streets should be policed, it must surely be realised that the present way is not working. The whole system of crime and punishment needs to be overhauled. New laws maybe - proper sentencing reflecting the measure of violence or the seriousness of the crime - more prisons (don't start letting criminals go because prisons are full) and more police officers on the streets. This means more officers employed ie, increased numbers. More civilian staff to carry out the many tasks at a police station that don't need to be done by a PC and more money for all forces to be properly manned and equipped. 

Law and order must be given priority or we will end up with anarchy. Yes the government need to properly finance the NHS, Education, all Emergency Services and the Armed Forces but we need a properly financed and fully manned police force or else the country will just implode. 

Back to Cornish Soccer perhaps ? 

Yes, I think so.

 

 

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