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Dave Bartlam

Combo League "Statement"/post?

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From the Combo Facebook page:

" If none of the top sides in the Trelawny want to climb up to the Combo at the end of the season, we might be putting out a statement like last year inviting teams to join from any division. Only speculation at the moment but watch this space."

What are your thoughts? This could see yet another loss of a division in the Trelawny League if they were to take a few more of our teams. They also state that there could be no relegation from Combo which I'm sure goes against their own rules?

Considering that both Combo and Trelawny are classed as recreational football and the order of seniority is a Cornwall FA thing, surely that structure must be respected? It's making a mockery of the promotional system!

Personally, I think it's a joke. I think their should be a promotional pathway between Trelawny and St Piran.

 

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I agree their should be promotion between the leagues, possibly mandatory. As it stands now where by the team winning the league does not accept promotion then that team should face a points deduction at the start of the next campaign. From the St Piran league down travel is going to be similar in most leagues i would imagine so that excuse can't really be used. 

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This is turning into a farce and one that needs addressing soonest! How can you possibly have teams leapfrogging not just other teams but whole divisions just to populate an out-of-date Combo League? How do we go about forcing CCFA to talk about a merger between Combo and Trelawney for the benefit of everyone concerned? If both Pendeen and Porthleven Res get promoted as we all expect, that would leave the Combo at 12 teams if no one takes promotion! Then you are in the nonsensical position of admitting clubs who have no real right to be in that league and could very well end up getting whipped every week and ultimately folding?! Everyone who I talk to on this subject is in agreement, the Combo League need to accept that they need to move forward in both their thinking and their approach to local football before it all turns sour!!

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I think clubs need to decide where they want to be in 10 years time. If it is NOT Step 6 and floodlights then I understand why they are happy to be where they are. For those clubs with ambition, the powers that be should be as accommodating as possible. Without the amalgamation of (each of) the West and East recreational leagues, I tend to agree that Trelawny and Duchy teams should be given every opportunity to advance. Might have to convince the CFA though!

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From the Combo Facebook page:

" none of the top sides in the Trelawny want to climb up to the Combo at the end of the season, we might be putting out a statement like last year inviting teams to join from any division. Only speculation at the moment but watch this space."

You have totally made this out to be a factual league statement when I said it on a personal level. You are just stirring again Dave Bartlam. 

Also the facebook group is not an official group sanctioned by the league, that is why it is called Cornwall Combo League. I think you know that as well. 

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Well, well, well. With CTB hurling abuse at Dave Bartlam and ECPL insulting D.D. and Mr. Manning, amongst others, this really is turning out to be the Season of goodwill to all men! (n.b. there are other genders available)

For goodness sake can’t you just kiss and make up? We’re all supposed to be on the same side!

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13 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Well, well, well. With CTB hurling abuse at Dave Bartlam and ECPL insulting D.D. and Mr. Manning, amongst others, this really is turning out to be the Season of goodwill to all men! (n.b. there are other genders available)

For goodness sake can’t you just kiss and make up? We’re all supposed to be on the same side!

I do not like things taken out of context, and made to look like Official Statements, when the poster knows they are not. Also I have not been abusive. The poster needs to learn what is official and what is personal.

 

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1 hour ago, cornishteddyboy said:

I do not like things taken out of context, and made to look like Official Statements, when the poster knows they are not. Also I have not been abusive. The poster needs to learn what is official and what is personal.

 

When I have clubs messaging me asking what your post is all about Paul, of course questions are going to be raised!

The Trelawny League has almost halved since it's formation. It needs protecting. Unsolicited invitations to join other Leagues so blatantly aren't welcome in my opinion.

Maybe before making comments that will raise eyebrows, you should do what I do and state that these are personal opinions to avoid any confusion? Maybe change the name of your page to the "Unofficial Cornwall Combo Page"? Again, that's what I had to do before getting it endorsed by the Committee.

I also can't make a copy and post job look official. It looks however it looks - I've simply pressed copy and paste, that's it. 

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The combo league needs merging into the Trelawny League at this point.

Official statement or not, the situation last season with an open invite to clubs from any division made a mockery of what little structure there is, but could be forgiven as a 'one off' due to the confusion and fallout of the introduction of the St Piran league.

This cannot now become a precedent that starts to happen every season, clubs are already struggling and player and referee numbers are at their lowest levels for a long time across the board, a merger can help solidify and stabilise what is currently a very fragile situation at grassroots level.

Call the combined league whatever you want for nostalgias sake (Trelawny Combination for example, with the existing Trelawny Divisions under it), but to have it run as a separate league, by a different group of people is just counter-productive at this point and it's only the clubs that will continue to suffer.

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1 hour ago, Adlestrop said:
  • That's all very well merging the 2 Leagues,Phil : but WHO'S GOING TO RUN IT ???

There is a huge amount of talent and experience presiding over the existent leagues. If by some miracle, the many and various differences could be reconciled, and the potential harvested, we could see the strongest administration of grassroots Cornish football for many a decade.

On the other hand, I could just go back to writing pulp fiction!

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4 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

There is a huge amount of talent and experience presiding over the existent leagues. If by some miracle, the many and various differences could be reconciled, and the potential harvested, we could see the strongest administration of grassroots Cornish football for many a decade.

On the other hand, I could just go back to writing pulp fiction!

There hasn't been any official talks - however I am of the understanding that the Trelawny League has suggested a potential merger and for talks to take place, however, nothing has ever materialised.

I think there's a few things that prevent a merger (this is all personal opinion):

1.  The combination League has a proud and long history.  I don't think they'd be willing to give that up in a hurry to merge with us.  Yes, the top Division would most likely be called the Trelawny Combination if a merger was to ever take place, but would they be happy with that? I'm not sure.  

2.  Who would run it?  It would be counter-productive to have two committees or a main committee and a sub committee.  Administration would have to be covered in the same way that  it is now - A fixtures Secretary, League Secretary, Registration Secretary etc.  The question I ask is who would lose their place as a League administrator? Who would be the Chairman? The Combo Chairman or the Trelawny Chairman? Who would do my role? Me or John Roberts?  If there was the potential for a merger, there is only one person that could do these roles so someone would have to resign... Would these people be happy with that?  Personally, I'd be happy to step aside from my role so long as my replacement was competent and serves the Clubs well.  That's all I've ever tried to do.  Would the Member Clubs have a vote and elect a brand new Committee?

I know from previous conversations that the Trelawny League would take on the Combination League if it was the wish of all involved - I am of the opinion that we are one of the best Leagues for administration and the way in which we have become pioneers in leading the way over recent years (Temporary Dismissal trials, Matchday App, Whole Game registrations etc). 

The question is... What is best for football?  At the end of the day, that is what has to be the winner. Not egos, not personal pride or reward etc

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The key point that Dave makes is his last one - what is best for football.

If there was a will to merge I suspect it could be done quickly and simply.  A large number of those on both committees were involved in the merger of the Mining and Falmouth/Helston leagues and the lessons learned from that exercise would undoubtedly help.

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7 hours ago, baldy said:

I think clubs need to decide where they want to be in 10 years time. If it is NOT Step 6 and floodlights then I understand why they are happy to be where they are. For those clubs with ambition, the powers that be should be as accommodating as possible. Without the amalgamation of (each of) the West and East recreational leagues, I tend to agree that Trelawny and Duchy teams should be given every opportunity to advance. Might have to convince the CFA though!

Most clubs do not have the infrastructure to plan for 1 year let alone 10 years. Season after season we see teams/clubs getting excited in pre-season and within weeks/months they have folded citing lack of players or people to run them. Some responsibility should be shouldered by the leagues who continue to canvass and then allow new entrants into their leagues when it very plain to see there are insufficient players. 

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8 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

From the Combo Facebook page:

" If none of the top sides in the Trelawny want to climb up to the Combo at the end of the season, we might be putting out a statement like last year inviting teams to join from any division. Only speculation at the moment but watch this space."

What are your thoughts? This could see yet another loss of a division in the Trelawny League if they were to take a few more of our teams. They also state that there could be no relegation from Combo which I'm sure goes against their own rules?

Considering that both Combo and Trelawny are classed as recreational football and the order of seniority is a Cornwall FA thing, surely that structure must be respected? It's making a mockery of the promotional system!

Personally, I think it's a joke. I think their should be a promotional pathway between Trelawny and St Piran.

 

As stated, in my posting, and it there for all to read

On a personal thought, not as a Combo Committee member, it is looking like one down from the St Piran, 2 up from the combo, then perhaps no relegation from the Combo and 3 up from the Trelawny (or maybe 2 and a sideways move from an ECPL side). Don't quote me mind.

Bartlam winding you all up again. Bloke has too much opinion. Says something then afterwards says it is personal view.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/600163956717647/

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7 hours ago, BAGMAN said:

This is turning into a farce and one that needs addressing soonest! How can you possibly have teams leapfrogging not just other teams but whole divisions just to populate an out-of-date Combo League? How do we go about forcing CCFA to talk about a merger between Combo and Trelawney for the benefit of everyone concerned? If both Pendeen and Porthleven Res get promoted as we all expect, that would leave the Combo at 12 teams if no one takes promotion! Then you are in the nonsensical position of admitting clubs who have no real right to be in that league and could very well end up getting whipped every week and ultimately folding?! Everyone who I talk to on this subject is in agreement, the Combo League need to accept that they need to move forward in both their thinking and their approach to local football before it all turns sour!!

The Combo league has always been run for their sole benefit without due regard for Cornish Football as a whole. The scenario of promoting teams who have finished in 4th,5th or 6th is also damaging because those teams are placed there for a reason - they were not good enough!! With regards to the CCFA, they have always been on another planet and are only interested in swelling their coffers. Getting everyone around a table before it all implodes will be nigh on impossible because nobody will want to admit they might have got it wrong  

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An EGM of both Leagues would be needed to get the Clubs' consent for a merger to happen for next season, followed by a joint meeting of committees to agree on a constitution to present to an inaugeral AGM. Could happen for next season if there is the will and mutual co-operation.

I've been asked by Vidal James, Chairman of the Combination League to post the following: -

"I would like to clarify and emphasise that the posts above, relating to possible outcomes of promotion & relegation into and out of the League have never been discussed at a League meeting and are purely the personal thoughts of CTB."

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22 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

As stated, in my posting, and it there for all to read

On a personal thought, not as a Combo Committee member, it is looking like one down from the St Piran, 2 up from the combo, then perhaps no relegation from the Combo and 3 up from the Trelawny (or maybe 2 and a sideways move from an ECPL side). Don't quote me mind.

Bartlam winding you all up again. Bloke has too much opinion. Says something then afterwards says it is personal view.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/600163956717647/

🤦‍♂️
 

If you’re going to try and belittle me... at least pick the right comment that I’ve picked up Paul for Christ sake... I’ve quoted your first comment... not your second!!

The key word you’ve used here is “we”, not “I”... this implies you are talking on behalf of the Combo League!!

8959A79E-6C21-4E63-BF1E-A7E7E08C9D84.png

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6 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Well, well, well. With CTB hurling abuse at Dave Bartlam and ECPL insulting D.D. and Mr. Manning, amongst others, this really is turning out to be the Season of goodwill to all men! (n.b. there are other genders available)

For goodness sake can’t you just kiss and make up? We’re all supposed to be on the same side!

 

15 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

As stated, in my posting, and it there for all to read

On a personal thought, not as a Combo Committee member, it is looking like one down from the St Piran, 2 up from the combo, then perhaps no relegation from the Combo and 3 up from the Trelawny (or maybe 2 and a sideways move from an ECPL side). Don't quote me mind.

Bartlam winding you all up again. Bloke has too much opinion. Says something then afterwards says it is personal view.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/600163956717647/

Well there you go! I wonder just when it does become abuse.

My apologies for suggesting that the experienced and “adult” members of the two leagues committees could get together and make a merger work. I think that the above posts prove beyond doubt that the divisions are far too great for them ever to be reconciled.

How very, very sad.

I seem to remember that my gang had just about the same problems with their gang when I was at school!

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It’s a defence mechanism Bruegel, one that Paul is choosing to adopt rather than some grown up conversation. I’ve got more about me than to belittle and/or abuse people, especially on a public forum. I’m not one for trying to cast a shadow over myself. 👀

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Changing the subject slightly.

In my opinion this season's teams in the combo should have be playing in the junior cup rather than senior cup. I think only 5 or 6 clubs qualified due to all the others being reserve teams. And realistically no chance of any of those getting far. 

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3 minutes ago, Ron Manager said:

And realistically no chance of any of those getting far. 

There’s always going to be teams in a cup competition that aren’t going to go very far!

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11 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

There’s always going to be teams in a cup competition that aren’t going to go very far!

Yes of course I realise that Dave. But those 6 teams were all in last year's junior cup which has been weakened as a result.

Combo for me now is a junior league hanging on to a senior title!

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9 minutes ago, Ron Manager said:

Changing the subject slightly.

In my opinion this season's teams in the combo should have be playing in the junior cup rather than senior cup. I think only 5 or 6 clubs qualified due to all the others being reserve teams. And realistically no chance of any of those getting far. 

Agreed 💯 

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13 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Well you guys need to get discussing with the Cornwall FA perhaps who run the county cups 

Im only a spectator like yourself. 

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Holmans have applied to join this once great league 👍. Although I would love to jump straight to the St Piran league. 
So maybe with our application there maybe a relegation who knows.

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2 hours ago, MARKSY said:

Holmans have applied to join this once great league 👍. Although I would love to jump straight to the St Piran league. 
So maybe with our application there maybe a relegation who knows.

Look forward to seeing you for season 21/22 then Dave!

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On 03/01/2020 at 20:48, le boss said:

The Combo league has always been run for their sole benefit without due regard for Cornish Football as a whole. The scenario of promoting teams who have finished in 4th,5th or 6th is also damaging because those teams are placed there for a reason - they were not good enough!! With regards to the CCFA, they have always been on another planet and are only interested in swelling their coffers. Getting everyone around a table before it all implodes will be nigh on impossible because nobody will want to admit they might have got it wrong  

Quite a lot of truth there I think le boss. Added to that of course, is the fact that some clubs would never be able to afford promotion anyway. 

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On 03/01/2020 at 13:31, BAGMAN said:

This is turning into a farce and one that needs addressing soonest! How can you possibly have teams leapfrogging not just other teams but whole divisions just to populate an out-of-date Combo League? How do we go about forcing CCFA to talk about a merger between Combo and Trelawney for the benefit of everyone concerned? If both Pendeen and Porthleven Res get promoted as we all expect, that would leave the Combo at 12 teams if no one takes promotion! Then you are in the nonsensical position of admitting clubs who have no real right to be in that league and could very well end up getting whipped every week and ultimately folding?! Everyone who I talk to on this subject is in agreement, the Combo League need to accept that they need to move forward in both their thinking and their approach to local football before it all turns sour!!

In defence of the Combo League, they were not responsible for the situation they found themselves in at the end of last season; it was just a case of survival when the proposed Step 7 League became 2 divisions at the 11th hour. There was no time then to hold potential merger talks! 

However, CCFA had previously held a joint meeting with all Cornish Leagues about the FA restructure and the subject of a possible merger between Combo and Trelawny Leagues was discussed - with positive reactions from both Leagues. Unfortunately, further talks were put on hold because it was still unclear at that time exactly how the FA restructure would pan out. I believe both Leagues would be open to further discussion in order to create a better "structure" for Clubs in the west of our County.

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58 minutes ago, John Mead said:

In defence of the Combo League, they were not responsible for the situation they found themselves in at the end of last season; it was just a case of survival when the proposed Step 7 League became 2 divisions at the 11th hour. There was no time then to hold potential merger talks! 

However, CCFA had previously held a joint meeting with all Cornish Leagues about the FA restructure and the subject of a possible merger between Combo and Trelawny Leagues was discussed - with positive reactions from both Leagues. Unfortunately, further talks were put on hold because it was still unclear at that time exactly how the FA restructure would pan out. I believe both Leagues would be open to further discussion in order to create a better "structure" for Clubs in the west of our County.

They partly were responsible though John, weren't they? In the sense that the Combination League were offered to run the "new" step 7 league however they declined? Because of that, the St Piran League had to be formed. Or am I mistaken?

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23 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

They partly were responsible though John, weren't they? In the sense that the Combination League were offered to run the "new" step 7 league however they declined? Because of that, the St Piran League had to be formed. Or am I mistaken?

Slightly mistaken I'm afraid Dave!

I attended the joint meetings and the suggestion was that the Step 7 League might have been run by committee formed between Combo and ECPL. That proposal didn't carry favour with either side! There was never a formal "offer" for the Combo to become the Step 7 League. If there had been, I would not have supported that idea - but not for reasons which might be obvious!

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55 minutes ago, John Mead said:

Slightly mistaken I'm afraid Dave!

I attended the joint meetings and the suggestion was that the Step 7 League might have been run by committee formed between Combo and ECPL. That proposal didn't carry favour with either side! There was never a formal "offer" for the Combo to become the Step 7 League. If there had been, I would not have supported that idea - but not for reasons which might be obvious!

Ouch!

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1 hour ago, John Mead said:

Slightly mistaken I'm afraid Dave!

I attended the joint meetings and the suggestion was that the Step 7 League might have been run by committee formed between Combo and ECPL. That proposal didn't carry favour with either side! There was never a formal "offer" for the Combo to become the Step 7 League. If there had been, I would not have supported that idea - but not for reasons which might be obvious!

That's fair enough John - it's not something I paid a great deal of attention to if I'm honest.

Do you feel that maybe the league's missed a trick and could ultimately regret the decision not to take it on?

Could you see a future where the ECPL & Duchy League's merge in the East and the Combo & Trelawny League's merge in the West?

I only know a few members of the Combination League Committee however, I'm of the opinion that you are all there, like I am for Trelawny, to do your best for your Clubs. Do you think that the merging of the League's would be best for the Club's? 

My personal opinion on the matter is that the Combination League is a proud League with years and years of history, that's why I think the League Committee will hold out for as long as they can. I don't blame them at all for doing so, I would certanly try to keep it running until it was just not viable - for pride I suppose.

Where do you think the future lies?

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I've been championing a merger for a long time Dave. I convened a joint meeting of Fal/Helston, Mining Division and West Penwith Leagues to suggest they merged as the first step of eventually having just one League covering west Cornwall. The Trelawny League grew from the seeds sown at that meeting - mainly thanks to Bruce.

My own view is that a merger between Combo and Trelawny in the west, plus  ECLP and Duchy in the east is by far the best way forward. As committee members get older, finding replacements who are both willing and able to take on essential roles within the Leagues gets harder and harder. To me, it all makes complete sense as far as both Leagues and Clubs are concerned.

Can't speak for  the east of course but the feeling is they might not be as keen.

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35 minutes ago, John Mead said:

I've been championing a merger for a long time Dave. I convened a joint meeting of Fal/Helston, Mining Division and West Penwith Leagues to suggest they merged as the first step of eventually having just one League covering west Cornwall. The Trelawny League grew from the seeds sown at that meeting - mainly thanks to Bruce.

My own view is that a merger between Combo and Trelawny in the west, plus  ECLP and Duchy in the east is by far the best way forward. As committee members get older, finding replacements who are both willing and able to take on essential roles within the Leagues gets harder and harder. To me, it all makes complete sense as far as both Leagues and Clubs are concerned.

Can't speak for  the east of course but the feeling is they might not be as keen.

Exactly my thoughts also John. 

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