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Uwdi Krugg

Shocking Scenes at Liskeard today

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5 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

I know you’ll say it’s your right to voice your opinion, but you’ve just got to be kidding with your suggestion? 
Irrespective whether it was a shocking tackle and even though it may have been his son on the end of that tackle, you just can’t allow the offender to get off scot free.

Yes, feelings have always run high and will continue to do so, but control should have been applied and running onto the pitch cannot be allowed!

I am certainly not kidding, everyone has a personal view.

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1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

How do you suggest the County FA should deal with this incident then BIG AL?

Dave he's  just out to wind people up again and people are falling for it .That's my opinion and my view and I'm entitled to it .😁

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13 hours ago, mattelot said:

Dave he's  just out to wind people up again and people are falling for it .That's my opinion and my view and I'm entitled to it .😁

And you don’t? How can you be so perfect?

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15 hours ago, Bobjfh said:

CTB - you are right, however the CCFA/FA are somewhat obliged to take firm action. Depending on the Referees report, Liskeard can be fined for failure to adequately protect players and St Blazey for failing to control their spectator - despite the fact neither club could do anything to stop the idiotic actions of one person. Hopefully this will be minimal for the clubs and both clubs will ‘assist’ by supplying the details of the fool - and imo(only going on what is on here as I wasn’t at the game - although I would struggle to find any mitigation on his behalf) he should then be banned from all grounds - with particular emphasis on St Blazey to identify him should he appear at any of their games, as banning orders are of no use unless clubs know the individual. 

Some relevant comments and sensible suggestions Bob.

Personally, for what little it's worth, I don't feel Liskeard should face any comebacks whatsoever for this shameful distasteful event. They have no feasible capability to deter somebody intent on entering the pitch, no non league club at this level has.

Some respondents on this thread have suggested it was an extremely bad tackle and this was a driver in causing the incident. Firstly, without the benefit of clear video replay we'll never be entirely sure. There was a split of reaction in the ground between people who thought it was a fair hard tackle as well as some who imply studs were showing. The important major point is that whatever anyone thinks it doesn't give a green light to run on the field and attack someone.

I agree with Bob that St Blazey should play a part in ensuring a known (offending) supporter shouldn't be given the opportunity to potentially do this again and yes they should be diligent in monitoring who is attending their matches (as far as is reasonably practicable). Other than that it would be harsh to place penalty or further measures against the club.

There is a final subject to add to this unfortunate affair. The recent trend of whipped up supporter behaviour that rides on the back of how passionately you are-seen to be supporting your club. The St Blazey follower took this well beyond the boundaries but other clubs have witnessed people running on the pitch (usually in celebration). Those involved have publicised these actions to such a bloated degree it's even become fashionable, you usually see video clips of it on twitter. 

Don't get me wrong this is miles short of what the Blazey gentleman did but these pitch incursions plant a seed in certain individuals minds that it's perfectly ok to run on the pitch now and again. This is a potentially dangerous trend and one which clubs and the league should deter.

The pitch must be a no go area under ALL circumstances. Failure to comply could result in a tidal wave of red tape, needless precautionary controls and excessive cost.

 

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Uwdi - as normal you have a balanced view. I agree there is little or nothing that Liskeard or St Blazey could have done - but in this climate feel the CCFA will want to be seen to do something and that normally becomes a fine. If the individual concerned has any values he should pay and fines should they be incurred. 

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3 hours ago, Uwdi Krugg said:

Some relevant comments and sensible suggestions Bob.

Personally, for what little it's worth, I don't feel Liskeard should face any comebacks whatsoever for this shameful distasteful event. They have no feasible capability to deter somebody intent on entering the pitch, no non league club at this level has.

Some respondents on this thread have suggested it was an extremely bad tackle and this was a driver in causing the incident. Firstly, without the benefit of clear video replay we'll never be entirely sure. There was a split of reaction in the ground between people who thought it was a fair hard tackle as well as some who imply studs were showing. The important major point is that whatever anyone thinks it doesn't give a green light to run on the field and attack someone.

I agree with Bob that St Blazey should play a part in ensuring a known (offending) supporter shouldn't be given the opportunity to potentially do this again and yes they should be diligent in monitoring who is attending their matches (as far as is reasonably practicable). Other than that it would be harsh to place penalty or further measures against the club.

There is a final subject to add to this unfortunate affair. The recent trend of whipped up supporter behaviour that rides on the back of how passionately you are-seen to be supporting your club. The St Blazey follower took this well beyond the boundaries but other clubs have witnessed people running on the pitch (usually in celebration). Those involved have publicised these actions to such a bloated degree it's even become fashionable, you usually see video clips of it on twitter. 

Don't get me wrong this is miles short of what the Blazey gentleman did but these pitch incursions plant a seed in certain individuals minds that it's perfectly ok to run on the pitch now and again. This is a potentially dangerous trend and one which clubs and the league should deter.

The pitch must be a no go area under ALL circumstances. Failure to comply could result in a tidal wave of red tape, needless precautionary controls and excessive cost.

 

I have seen videos of the F Troop entering the pitch to celebrate goals with their team - as a player, I would've absolutely loved that, so struggle to argue against it. Of course its not allowed, however, pitch invasions (smaller clubs beating bigger club in FA Cup games being a favourite) happen up and down the leagues, absolutely fantastic when conducted correctly - no malice, no violence. Yes celebrating on the pitch usually leads to fines (unsure if F Troop were fined for this or another matter - still they paid the fine!), difficult to stop yourself when you've just seen your team score a 90+5 minute winner. This bares no relation to the attempted assault up at Liskeard... about as relevant as a dog walker deciding to take his dog for a walk on the pitch during the game

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Celebrating a goal, & a spectator (s)  entering the field of play is still pitch encroachment & not on ... But assaulting or entering the field of play with that intention of confrontation has to be condemned & dealt with properly by the CCFA so this doesn't happen again in Cornish Football. What if god forbid the spectator was intoxicated & did something extremely serious ( not saying the attempted assault ) on the weekend wasn't serious because if he didn't slip on his backside who knows what fracas would of happened or escalated .. 

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6 minutes ago, leedsunited said:

Celebrating a goal, & a spectator (s)  entering the field of play is still pitch encroachment & not on ... But assaulting or entering the field of play with that intention of confrontation has to be condemned & dealt with properly by the CCFA so this doesn't happen again in Cornish Football. What if god forbid the spectator was intoxicated & did something extremely serious ( not saying the attempted assault ) on the weekend wasn't serious because if he didn't slip on his backside who knows what fracas would of happened or escalated .. 

Hard work to read this (for all that its content is accurate enough). Try moving the “close bracket” to a position between the following “serious” and “because” and magically it starts to make sense! Substitute hadn’t for didn’t and you almost have a sentence in English!

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On 18/11/2019 at 12:16, Hetty said:

The tackle being a red card tackle is immaterial. No spectator should be coming onto the pitch to assault a player.  Father or not. 

Immaterial ? At what point does a malicious tackle become criminal ?

Because once that threshold is reached, for a lot of fathers, the gloves are off.

No player should be coming onto the pitch to assault another player.

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1 hour ago, Rightside O`theriver said:

Immaterial ? At what point does a malicious tackle become criminal ?

Because once that threshold is reached, for a lot of fathers, the gloves are off.

No player should be coming onto the pitch to assault another player.

The point being made is that there is no reason for any spectator (including relatives) to enter the field of play.  

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Well done St Blazey on their prompt update on this issue (on the SWPL site)

St Blazey AFC have identified the individual in relation to saturdays incident at @LiskeardAthlet1 and have banned him from the remainder of games at Blaise Park this season. We are working with the CCFA and relevant people to get the matter addressed

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19 hours ago, leedsunited said:

Celebrating a goal, & a spectator (s)  entering the field of play is still pitch encroachment & not on ... But assaulting or entering the field of play with that intention of confrontation has to be condemned & dealt with properly by the CCFA so this doesn't happen again in Cornish Football. What if god forbid the spectator was intoxicated & did something extremely serious ( not saying the attempted assault ) on the weekend wasn't serious because if he didn't slip on his backside who knows what fracas would of happened or escalated .. 

totally agree, entering a field to celebrate a goal is still not okay.... however, to be put in the same bracket as a bloke running on attempting to assault a player is ludicrous

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How embarrassing for the lad playing to have his old man run on embarrassing himself like that. His old man fished out enough leg breakers in his time playing so why he feels he needs to run on a pitch protesting that someone else has done one is ridiculous. 

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On 18/11/2019 at 18:01, BIG AL said:

Take no action, feelings always run high during a game, it has been like it since kingdom come!

Feelings run high during a game at times, yes. That doesn't excuse this kind of behaviour Big AL. I think the club took the appropriate action and ejected the man. People with like feelings, should see that this conduct will not be allowed to go unpunished. Being ejected is a punishment of sorts. If the man were to return and have another go - if possible he should be detained and then the police should be called. The man could be charged with breach of the peace - or assault, or both if appropriate.

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Sadly , often these type of occurrences often fizzle out as regards punishment  from my experience  . Peoples recollections of what happened often conflict  and the story becomes confused . As a result very little happens , unfortunately for some reason the home club is penalised for failing to control spectators  which always seems unfair , particularly as this often happens on a  council run pitch or similar public park where anyone  not connected with either team has access . . Police action usually results in a caution or no further action .

As regards Die Hards comments on stupidity .........Last night in the Bromley , Bristol Rovers cup game some moron threw a flare onto the pitch during the latter stages of the game . Unfortunately  it is an artificial pitch and the plastic caught fire and a hole appeared . Play was held up while the grounds man had to find a suitable material to fill the hole in .

Keith B , you obviously have same view as me about the overuse of the term " gentleman "  I also struggle to know why my wife  and I are refered to as " guys " .

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3 hours ago, Keith B said:

Feelings run high during a game at times, yes. That doesn't excuse this kind of behaviour Big AL. I think the club took the appropriate action and ejected the man. People with like feelings, should see that this conduct will not be allowed to go unpunished. Being ejected is a punishment of sorts. If the man were to return and have another go - if possible he should be detained and then the police should be called. The man could be charged with breach of the peace - or assault, or both if appropriate.

I understand it is against the law to detain any person.

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12 hours ago, fenman said:

Sadly , often these type of occurrences often fizzle out as regards punishment  from my experience  . Peoples recollections of what happened often conflict  and the story becomes confused . As a result very little happens , unfortunately for some reason the home club is penalised for failing to control spectators  which always seems unfair , particularly as this often happens on a  council run pitch or similar public park where anyone  not connected with either team has access . . Police action usually results in a caution or no further action .

As regards Die Hards comments on stupidity .........Last night in the Bromley , Bristol Rovers cup game some moron threw a flare onto the pitch during the latter stages of the game . Unfortunately  it is an artificial pitch and the plastic caught fire and a hole appeared . Play was held up while the grounds man had to find a suitable material to fill the hole in .

Keith B , you obviously have same view as me about the overuse of the term " gentleman "  I also struggle to know why my wife  and I are refered to as " guys " .

The fashion among some folk of calling everyone 'guys' irritates me too. Especially when two or more women are being addressed.

10 hours ago, BIG AL said:

I understand it is against the law to detain any person.

You've never heard of a citizens arrest BIG AL ?

Quite legal - as long as an offence  has been committed. In this case - if the man laid hands on a player, that would constitute an assault. You also commit an offence simply by threatening anyone if, the person has good reason to believe you would carry out the threat. If a citizens arrest is made, the police should be called immediately or as soon as is possible.

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12 hours ago, Keith B said:

The fashion among some folk of calling everyone 'guys' irritates me too. Especially when two or more women are being addressed.

You've never heard of a citizens arrest BIG AL ?

Quite legal - as long as an offence  has been committed. In this case - if the man laid hands on a player, that would constitute an assault. You also commit an offence simply by threatening anyone if, the person has good reason to believe you would carry out the threat. If a citizens arrest is made, the police should be called immediately or as soon as is possible.

Yes, I am not stupid but by doing so it would create all sorts of problems for oneself and would probably end up in the dock as well!

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10 hours ago, BIG AL said:

Yes, I am not stupid but by doing so it would create all sorts of problems for oneself and would probably end up in the dock as well!

You made a statement BIG AL - you said you 'understood it was against the law to detain a person'.

I have told you that it is legal .. so long as an offence has been committed, and, that you were happy that it was so. You would have to have witnessed it and been willing to give that evidence to the police who hopefully will have been called (if you called them of course, or, another called them on your behalf).

If you feel you would not be able to control yourself in these sort of circumstances - stay out of it.

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50 minutes ago, Keith B said:

You made a statement BIG AL - you said you 'understood it was against the law to detain a person'.

I have told you that it is legal .. so long as an offence has been committed, and, that you were happy that it was so. You would have to have witnessed it and been willing to give that evidence to the police who hopefully will have been called (if you called them of course, or, another called them on your behalf).

If you feel you would not be able to control yourself in these sort of circumstances - stay out of it.

And you would know I presume! I know someone who did this some years ago and was virtually facing a charge of kidnap!

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26 minutes ago, BIG AL said:

And you would know I presume! I know someone who did this some years ago and was virtually facing a charge of kidnap!

Yes I know BIG Al.

I served as a police officer in London throughout the 1970 - 80's. I've given you the legal angle in answer to your original statement that you thought it unlawful to detain a person.

Good night BIG AL - sleep well.

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8 hours ago, Keith B said:

Yes I know BIG Al.

I served as a police officer in London throughout the 1970 - 80's. I've given you the legal angle in answer to your original statement that you thought it unlawful to detain a person.

Good night BIG AL - sleep well.

Be careful of giving legal advice on a public forum and be even more careful if you are going to detain anybody unless you know the difference between summary offences and Indictable ones.

Otherwise you might find yourself in the same boat as Big Al`s mate.

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