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Bruegel the Elder

Racism protocol

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I thoroughly enjoyed the England match last night, the football was OK, certainly better than Fridays debacle, although so it should be against notably inferior opposition. Better however was the England team’s decision to invoke the racism protocol in the face of horrendous provocation. 
This protocol has been on the books for almost twenty years and never used, despite frequent scenes of racist chanting as bad or worse than last night. What makes it different, is that it is the team management rather than the referee that makes the decision to invoke the protocol.

What I don’t know, but would like to find out is how far down the pyramid does this rule apply? Can Premier league teams make the call? Or Trelawny league, or anywhere in between? Also is the Protocol (or another similar) existent for other forms of abuse for example; homophobic chanting?

I very much hope that this first step will encourage other teams and FA’s to look at this problem and stamp out this revolting behaviour. I was disappointed to find that 12 hours after the match it has failed to raise a comment on the forum.

[rereading this I think it should have gone onto a different sub-forum, but I haven’t a clue how to do that and I’m not about to delete it and type it all out again]

Thank you whoever had the skills to redirect my post to a more relevant destination. Mr. D I presume!

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Why have a protocol? After last night what happened in the first 20 mins they should have walked off then. That would have made a bigger statement. 

The FA guys statement/interview was terrible. He basically excused the minor racism in the second half as not punishable. 
 

In my opinion England could have made a massive statement last night that would have gone further than the football world. I put some of the blame on the FA who would never stand up to UEFA and encourage them to walk off. This is an FA who fined Millwall £10,000 for racist chanting. An FA who fined a club up north £165 for waking off the pitch after racist abuse towards one of their players and the club who had the fan giving the abuse £160!!! 
 

I did find some of the England fans chanting rather ironic though as there is a percentage of those that are probably National Front members and involved in xenophobic chants before, during and after games. 

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On 15/10/2019 at 10:18, Bruegel the Elder said:

I thoroughly enjoyed the England match last night, the football was OK, certainly better than Fridays debacle, although so it should be against notably inferior opposition. Better however was the England team’s decision to invoke the racism protocol in the face of horrendous provocation. 
This protocol has been on the books for almost twenty years and never used, despite frequent scenes of racist chanting as bad or worse than last night. What makes it different, is that it is the team management rather than the referee that makes the decision to invoke the protocol.

What I don’t know, but would like to find out is how far down the pyramid does this rule apply? Can Premier league teams make the call? Or Trelawny league, or anywhere in between? Also is the Protocol (or another similar) existent for other forms of abuse for example; homophobic chanting?

I very much hope that this first step will encourage other teams and FA’s to look at this problem and stamp out this revolting behaviour. I was disappointed to find that 12 hours after the match it has failed to raise a comment on the forum.

[rereading this I think it should have gone onto a different sub-forum, but I haven’t a clue how to do that and I’m not about to delete it and type it all out again]

Thank you whoever had the skills to redirect my post to a more relevant destination. Mr. D I presume!

Good post Bruegel. Replys from a few officials at the top of the game countrywide, would be interesting. At the end of the day, all racist, homophobic or other extremist chanting etc, must be stopped. Those individuals in Bulgaria should have been stopped from entering the ground, before the match started in my opinion.

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As I've said many times on my posts , it's easy to be critical of organisations when you don't know all the facts . However sometimes you wonder how you can defend some decisions by FIFA . Wolves play a team in Eastern Europe next week Bratislava ? I think off the top of my head . This team have been fined and had sanctions imposed on them for several offences including racist chanting . For the Wolves game they must display a banner condemning racist behaviour and the no home fans are allowed into the game . However they can admit fans under the age of 14 years plus only 200 Wolves fans .A loophole allows an adult to accompany the child  to the game .As a result they are expecting a capacity gate of 21000 . I often quote the Marx Brothers but even they would be hard pushed to come up with a script like this .

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Well that answers part of my question, clearly you can walk off the pitch and abandon the game in the F.A. Cup following the appalling scenes at Haringey Boroughs Coles Park ground yesterday. A small group of Yeovil town followers  (I hesitate to call them fans or supporters) racially abused, threw bottles and spat at Boroughs Cameroonian goalkeeper and another defender, so the manager took the players off the ground, with the full support of the Yeovil Town team who followed them off the pitch. Police and the F.A. are looking into it to identify the perpetrators who should get a life ban from all football and preferably some jail time, which might just be a deterrent. 
Nice to see that the kick out racism campaign is being implemented at last, just a few thousand other disciplinary problems for the F.A.’s to sort out, both locally and nationally.

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5 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Well that answers part of my question, clearly you can walk off the pitch and abandon the game in the F.A. Cup following the appalling scenes at Haringey Boroughs Coles Park ground yesterday. A small group of Yeovil town followers  (I hesitate to call them fans or supporters) racially abused, threw bottles and spat at Boroughs Cameroonian goalkeeper and another defender, so the manager took the players off the ground, with the full support of the Yeovil Town team who followed them off the pitch. Police and the F.A. are looking into it to identify the perpetrators who should get a life ban from all football and preferably some jail time, which might just be a deterrent. 
Nice to see that the kick out racism campaign is being implemented at last, just a few thousand other disciplinary problems for the F.A.’s to sort out, both locally and nationally.

Not quite sure how you work out the ‘kick it out’ campaign is working???  There was racist abuse from the terraces so that’s hardly kicking it out is it??

however, walking off the pitch has made a bigger impact as the FA have to act rooerly now in what they do. That is what England should have done rather then giving racists 3 chances!!

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1 hour ago, St Darren said:

Not quite sure how you work out the ‘kick it out’ campaign is working???  There was racist abuse from the terraces so that’s hardly kicking it out is it??

however, walking off the pitch has made a bigger impact as the FA have to act rooerly now in what they do. That is what England should have done rather then giving racists 3 chances!!

Being implemented and working are not exactly the same thing. Implementation is the start of a process, working is rather further along the road (we live in hope).

1 hour ago, baldy said:

And then you will get match results decided in the courts! Not the way I want the game to progress. Let the police deal with the racists and get the games to 90 mins.

Me neither baldy, but there again it’s a bit difficult to concentrate on the game when you’re being spat at and having bottles thrown at you. The fate of the perpetrators can be dealt with in the courts, the game can always be replayed, if necessary without spectators. Not pleasant for the supporters but it just might encourage them to assist club and police in identifying the rogue elements.

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57 minutes ago, baldy said:

Always thought the referee was in total charge of the stadium. Clear the ground/end of spectators and finish the match?

You’d have to be a jolly brave referee. At F.A. Cup qualifying rounds, National League and below there is rarely much of a police presence and most of the stewards are elderly and untrained. Meanwhile many of the local would be ultras are tooled up, muscular, right wing thugs (not so much in Cornwall admittedly, but not so very far away) looking for trouble and not much bothered against who or what (who’d have thought Yeovil Town would have their own hooligan chapter?)! 
Unless intelligence indicates a potential problem policing costs the home club a fortune. Better to abandon and decide on the next move later. Cheaper and more effective would be CCTV cameras on the gate.

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Walking off is the only way that is going to make society stand up and look. It’s not just a football thing it’s a whole society thing. 
 

UEFA give racists 3 chances!!! How does that happen?

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12 hours ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

It’s a learning curve St. Darren, unfortunately UEFA have learning difficulties!

It’s a learning disability not difficulty!!!

Why should it be a learning curve? If there’s racist behaviour, walk off! The reason why UEFA wouldn’t want that is to save a football match, then they wouldn’t have to reorganise one!

The thought that football is bigger then racism is truly astonishing. 

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I was very impressed with the interview given by the Yeovil Town manager on the BBC News/Sport website this morning (I would have provided a link if only I had the skills!). He, like St. Darren, above, states that football is nothing in the scheme of things compared with racist behaviour. While clearly nervous, being interviewed on national TV news his integrity and that of his team shone out.

The interview should be compulsory watching for all football managers, and more importantly all FA and County FA members across the country. You could also add the UEFA members to that too. 

please go and watch it, it’s only a few minutes long.

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17 minutes ago, baldy said:

So, the FA CUP match is to be replayed. Good job it was Yeovil who were leading at the time. No mentioned of “behind closed doors”.

Can see this “tactic” being used when a team is losing, to get an abandonment. Thin end of the wedge.

Playing right in to their hands.

This is easy to say, what about ignoring it, and concentrating on the participants? 

Catch and jail them with a serious sentence. 

Every group like this has a ringleader/s

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I see Manchester United ejected a “supporter” from yesterday’s game for racially abusing a Liverpool player and propose banning him for life following an enquiry, if found guilty.

Easy if you’re a Premiership team with banks of CCTV cameras, professional stewards and a huge police presence. Not quite so viable for steps 3, 4, 5 and beyond. The FA’s need to look at this. (Mind you, they’ve never supported a level playing field for any other aspect of the game, I can’t see them starting any time soon!).

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40 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

An absolute joke, are FIFA/UEFA ever going to take it seriously? It’s not like it’s a first offence!

And therefore I go back to the fact that England should have walked off. UEFA are all about chances. The protocol is 3 chances then off. That’s a joke

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On ‎21‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 19:10, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Playing right in to their hands.

This is easy to say, what about ignoring it, and concentrating on the participants? 

Catch and jail them with a serious sentence. 

Every group like this has a ringleader/s

Unfortunately Older it is a problem that has never really gone away. It is something that we congratulated ourselves on eradicating (recently read Laurie Cunningham's biography, was quite shocked by the level of abuse he encountered at every match and on streets in daily life), but those views have flourished on in the safe space of social media and emboldened individuals are now re-surfacing at street level and in football grounds.It is a societal problem, not football's, and it is very much still with us.

Bit rich of us getting all righteous about behaviour in Eastern Europe, we have had plenty of this going on within English football in the past year or so recently with incidents involving fans of Chelsea, Tottenham, Middlesbrough, Manchester United, Bristol City,Nottingham Forest, Notts County, Brentford,Derby and Brighton contributing to a 43% increase in racist abuse  for season 2018/19 (source, Kick It Out). This is pretty much in line though with the rise in racial hate crime in the country as a whole (up 11% in 2018, source Home Office) .

People don't become racist when they enter football grounds, or stop having those thoughts/opinions when they leave. They are all members of society with beliefs that are products of background, environment,education , experiences and peers. Not much that football can do about that.

 

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32 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

Unfortunately Older it is a problem that has never really gone away. It is something that we congratulated ourselves on eradicating (recently read Laurie Cunningham's biography, was quite shocked by the level of abuse he encountered at every match and on streets in daily life), but those views have flourished on in the safe space of social media and emboldened individuals are now re-surfacing at street level and in football grounds.It is a societal problem, not football's, and it is very much still with us.

Bit rich of us getting all righteous about behaviour in Eastern Europe, we have had plenty of this going on within English football in the past year or so recently with incidents involving fans of Chelsea, Tottenham, Middlesbrough, Manchester United, Bristol City,Nottingham Forest, Notts County, Brentford,Derby and Brighton contributing to a 43% increase in racist abuse  for season 2018/19 (source, Kick It Out). This is pretty much in line though with the rise in racial hate crime in the country as a whole (up 11% in 2018, source Home Office) .

People don't become racist when they enter football grounds, or stop having those thoughts/opinions when they leave. They are all members of society with beliefs that are products of background, environment,education , experiences and peers. Not much that football can do about that.

 

Correct 

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This Norfolk sunshine must have affected my brain ,  I'd posted this in the wrong subject .

Firstly , will this " punishment " end up in the farcical situation that I mentioned in another post about Bratislava versus Wolves .

Secondly I totally agree with you Way of the Park , I was going to post a similar thing .myself . This type of thing is just bubbling under the surface in this country , fuelled by anti , sorry  ,social media and the general lack of respect for each other and lack of self discipline . I posted a few weeks ago about the abuse aimed at the officials and opposition at the Plymouth , Cheltenham game . This happens at almost every game at all levels , racist abuse is  only one step above this . It's difficult to understand the mentality of someone who gets pleasure out of spending 90 mins just screaming abuse at someone else or posting vile comments about someone online . We see it on discussion forums in newspapers where certain individuals can't wait to put pen to paper to abuse police officers when any police related article appears in the newspaper . We all have opinions and dislikes but most of us keep them to ourselves or have a balanced discussion with others about a subject .

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