Darin Morse Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Every week we see on Match of the Day really tight decisions, coloured lines drawn on freeze frames to determine whether a forward was a millimetre onside or not that are impossible to spot in real time by fully qualified, well-paid officials trying to enforce a phenomenally complicated offside law. Every week we get complaints on here about controversial decisions made by volunteer and/or unqualified and/or press-ganged and/or unpaid linesmen who may, or may not, be acting in an entirely unbiased fashion also trying to enforce that same phenomenally complicated law. Could somebody please explain how the above scenarios are nevertheless still preferable to just getting rid of offside altogether? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenman Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Darin, I often pondered the same thing , but " experts " tell me that it wouldn't work because , to use an old schoolboy expression , players would goal hang . Perhaps this is true but common sense ( a rare commodity today ) would say that both teams would do it so it would cancel out . I totally agree with you , its the cause of most controversy at all levels of football . Several attempts to alter the rule have been made but most have led to even more confusion and controversy . Surely it would be worth it to experiment with no offside in a lower league , the National league for example , just to see if it works . You obviously couldn't try it at village football level for obvious reasons , lack of feedback on the result etc. As you point out , it would make life a lot easier for the sub pressganged into running the line at Mevagissey or wherever on a Saturday afternoon . As I've often admitted on this forum it's easy to be critical of authorities and rule makers but this seems an obvious idea to try . Torrential rain up here in Norfolk I thought I'd post to pass the time !!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darin Morse Posted October 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Thanks fenman. I'm not sure strikers would goal hang if offside was abolished but so what if they did? Would it not be a worthwhile trade-off to the current farcical situation? Greetings from balmy Foxhole by the way ☺️ Old 1950 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldy Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Offside was brought in for exactly that reason - to stop goal hanging!! History is rarely wrong!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Matthews Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 I think the game would be so spread out players might resort to just hoofing the ball long and no one wants to see that. B Manning and Old 1950 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, Tommy Matthews said: I think the game would be so spread out players might resort to just hoofing the ball long and no one wants to see that. That's what used to happen. Worth a shot...only offside in the penalty area, and clear space between the defenders and the attacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Matthews Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 You’d have to have midfielders with huge lungs to literally cover box to box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenman Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I don't suggest that this idea wouldn't have faults , anymore than Darin probably does , but there must be a solution to the problems with offside which seems to blight the game and always has .Does a player with his back to the goal and with his heel in an offside position gain an advantage .? On a brighter note the rain has stopped up here and Wolves won so all's well with the world . TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Prynne Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 Very awkward problem to deal with as sometimes its just mistakes effecting results but there are also the results that are effected by people cheating . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenman Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 I think and I'm sure Older and the 2 B's would agree , that all this problem surrounding officials decisions , cheating etc. has appeared to be getting worse is that it is magnified by television . Historically there must have been handballs , were they weren't they bookable , fouls , iffy handballs and so on . Until the mass saturation of football on television ( plus the awful reality shows !!!!!) there was very little football shown , plus the picture quality was not that good . And of course you only had Brian Moore or Jimmy Hill presenting it not the legions of pundits . Most people only saw live football at the ground and whatever happened you had to make your mind up at that moment because the event wouldn't be replayed so you couldn't have a second or third look at it .Today at most grounds there are screens showing you the incident again so you get another chance to see it .Coupled with the massive amounts of money involved this has led to more importance being put on wrong decisions .Premiership football is no longer about entertainment , it's all about winning unfortunately . Although I live in the wilds of Norfolk in the 60's I used to regularly go to London to watch Chelsea or Q.P.R. and don't think that there was so much emphasis on winning then , 0f course it was much better entertainment if your team got the win as well . I'll probably read this tomorrow and think " what a load of nonsense I've posted . TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 Correct fenman. Football is at saturation point, analysed to death, every decision dissected 10 times, atrocious behaviour tolerated, and money paid at ludicrous levels. Football is in the moment with all its faults and dodgy decisions, leave it alone and go back to what we had. Match of the day with no playback, make your decision on what you see in real time like the referee's see it. Not going to happen is it? Do what I do, record it and fast forward past all the bunk that they have tagged onto the greatest game of all. Tommy Matthews, B Manning and Soccer Follower 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECPL Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 Unfortunately it is becoming like American Football. Football is by and large a fluid game. The introduction of VAR has raised many points. What I don't understand is that offside was awarded for SEEKING TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE. Who is taking advantage when a defender suddenly moves up and leaves an attacker in an offside position. The other point is it has to be clear and obvious. When a camera shows all the different lines to show offside by a millimetre or so. Why is the camera not taking into account just when a ball is kicked. We see a player striking a ball but when does it actually move off the foot. Where is the little lines there. Now it seems any part of the body be it torso, head, hand or foot decides, yet it does not seem to take into account the actual striking of the ball. Perhaps VAR can take this into account when a decision is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Tucker Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 14 hours ago, ECPL said: Unfortunately it is becoming like American Football. Football is by and large a fluid game. The introduction of VAR has raised many points. What I don't understand is that offside was awarded for SEEKING TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE. Who is taking advantage when a defender suddenly moves up and leaves an attacker in an offside position. The other point is it has to be clear and obvious. When a camera shows all the different lines to show offside by a millimetre or so. Why is the camera not taking into account just when a ball is kicked. We see a player striking a ball but when does it actually move off the foot. Where is the little lines there. Now it seems any part of the body be it torso, head, hand or foot decides, yet it does not seem to take into account the actual striking of the ball. Perhaps VAR can take this into account when a decision is made. fortunately the words SEEKING TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE were removed many years ago, I would say at least 10. VAR is used to check any goal for a possible offside infringement - offside is a non subjective decision - it is onside or offside, so they use the freeze frame to work out when the ball is played. Things like red card offences and penalties etc are the ones that need to meet the CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERROR as they are subjective decisions. And yes any part of the body that can legally play the ball are used to judge offside. This means in real terms - any part of the attackers body excluding the hands and arms need to be fractionally nearer to the goal than any part of the 2nd defenders body (excluding the hands and arms). So in horse racing terms the attacker could be offside by a nose TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Prynne Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 VAR has no effect on the local game but cheating club linos have a major effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieb Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jason Prynne said: VAR has no effect on the local game but cheating club linos have a major effect. Well done , and in a nutshell this is why less volunteers are getting involved in club football , if you are worried about cheating , get on a course and pick up the flag and do a far better job , when you have done it for a few years come back on here and let us all know how it's done. TheolderIgetthebetterIwas and Andys 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Prynne Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Do it a fair bit already mate when the regular lino cant make the game but thanks for your input coady-9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Trouble is in the eyes of people like yourself, if the decision does not go your way then the assistant is a cheat. stevieb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Prynne Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 When the supporters tell you there lino cheated thats nothing to do with my eyes & i was happy with the offside given as i could not see from my end of the pitch until we got told differently after the game.Mistakes & Cheating are totally different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midfield Maestro Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Teams will never win anything without a cheating linesman lol 🤪🏆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieb Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Postman Pat said: Trouble is in the eyes of people like yourself, if the decision does not go your way then the assistant is a cheat. Not allowed mistakes , even top class officials get it wrong , and they are paid a wage , where as like yourself you do 101 things before a ball is kicked , and suprisingly nobody what's to take over from you . Glad things are looking up Martin for your club , and keep up the good work that goes to all linos and refs , no matter what level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Prynne Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Stevie B & Postman pat just get a room & when you partners find out just say it was only a" mistake" were not ""cheating Midfield Maestro, coady-9 and Devils@Dusk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieb Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jason Prynne said: Stevie B & Postman pat just get a room & when you partners find out just say it was only a" mistake" were not ""cheating Been called that , I've packed in after one combo game last season , threatened with being knocked out called a **** several times , after the game told hope you drop dead you old **** , had enough and all for free done it for years , postman pat is a top bloke and like several club linos I have come across over the years they try their best don't t always get it right but that's football , to be honest have not come across any cheating , perhaps been lucky , not sure what league you play in , but if as you say Cheating is taking place refs would pick that up very quickly I would have thought . B Manning, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas and Andys 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECPL Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 The problem seems to be especially at the lower level a linesman (sounds better than assistant) raises his/her flag because they have anticipated that someone is offside or a ball is out of play. When in fact it is neither. I don't call it cheating but anticipation is a curse upon our game. The question is how do you teach someone about something that takes a mili second. A ball can travel a distance in a mili second. So why does the VAR not check the striking of the ball when they make their decision. I defy anyone to get it right, so a millimetre or so cannot be used as to whether a player is offside. The attacker must be given the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Flash-Lag Effect... If he looks just offside at speed... 9/10 times, He's on! Have a read and definitely check out the videos http://www.law-11.com/flash-lag-effect.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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