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Dave Deacon

Referee Shortage Directive - I suggest all read

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A statement from the Cornwall FA sent to all club secretaries today and is of more relevance to clubs playing on Saturdays.

 

The following MUST be followed by all leagues.

 

 

27th September 2019

Referee Shortage – Statement on behalf of Cornwall FA Football Management Board – Leagues Working Group

Due to the shortage of referees in the County, particularly on a Saturday, an emergency meeting of the Cornwall FA Football Management Board Leagues working group was called to discuss the short, medium and long terms implications, as well as the reasons for the current shortage.

 

Player/manager/spectator behaviour and abuse to referees was identified as a major reason for the shortage, additional social factors were also to blame. These, and other issues are being looked at by the Cornwall FA, particularly the new Referee Development Officer Lee Swabey. We will be seeking feedback from Leagues, Clubs and referees and looking at how we can recruit and retain referees moving forward.

 

In Cornwall we are fortunate to have a referee appointment officer, Paul Murphy. However, it has been common practice that if Paul is unable to appoint a referee to a game then that game is re-scheduled for a later date. This practice is against the Standard Code of Rules (Rule 23b).

 

All games where a referee is not appointed by Paul Murphy must be played as per the above rule, with the clubs agreeing on a referee, said referee shall be covered by the Club' insurance, and shall, for that Competition Match, have the full powers, status and authority of a registered referee. No games should be postponed because a referee is not appointed. It is simply not possible with the current situation for this rule not to be enforced.

 

Should teams fail to mutually agree a referee then both teams should be charged with failing to fulfil a fixture with the game being declared void and not re-arranged. Should a team put forward a referee and this is not accepted by the opposition, the team refusing to play should be charged for failing to fulfil a fixture and the game should be awarded to the opposition.

 

We expect all leagues to enforce these rules, failure to do so may result in action being taken against that league under FA Rule E1 (b) Failed to comply with the Rules and Regulations of The Football Association.

 

Some important additional points to note

           With this new guidance and games not being postponed due to no referee being appointed, if a referee does become available at short notice they can now be appointed.

           If for any reason a referee withdraws from a game Paul will not re-appoint from a fixture taking place in a lower division, the teams in that game will be required to mutually agree a referee.

           Paul will endeavour to ensure that all leagues are equally dealt with and it will not always be the same leagues/teams not having a referee appointed. The South West Peninsula League and St Piran League, as members of the National League System, will retain priority though.

           Should a game be postponed by a league due to no referee being appointed, when the game is re-scheduled a referee will not be appointed.

           These changes will not affect games which have already been postponed due to no referee being appointed.

 

 

If you have any questions in relation to this please contact Cornwall FA Governance Manager Richard Pallot 01208 262983 richard.pallot@cornwallfa.com  

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The response from the CCFA is understandable due to the lack of numbers - however it potentially affects all clubs when a minority of teams are at fault - specifically for the abuse hurled at appointed officials. 

Why can’t the CCFA ask their refs who they are not willing to referee - I knows refs put in match reports but I doubt they specifically state they do not want to officiate certain teams any further. Tell those clubs they cannot have appointed officials or have the games watched by CCFA Board members and prioritise those clubs who have well behaved teams - right through to SWPL (I know that can’t happen but should - just listen to the sound on the Saltash v Bodmin game). It may curb behaviour as teams will be docked points for not playing?

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Will the lack of officials have any impact on the insurance that clubs have to have? With the CCFA "forcing" games to go ahead without referees will see matches descend into complete chaos and more and more abandonments. Whilst I agree player behaviour has deteriorated, it does appear that it is the same referees that are the subject of the worse behaviour - coincidence?? We all know the referees who don't have any problems but no one asks or realises why that is. All too easy to blame others instead of admitting your own shortcomings.

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If you watch a group of kids playing a "kick-round" game in a local park, they seem to manage to have a decent, enjoyable game without a ref at all! Self-control and honestly is all that's needed.

There's no doubt that the main cause of the referee shortage lies with the actions of players, managers and spectators during and after matches. As everyone accepts what the major problem is, isn't it time that all Clubs take some responsibility for any such unacceptable behaviour within their ranks?

The situation with the lack of referees won't change until everyone involved does their utmost to ensure that refereeing is always a pleasant and enjoyable experience for the "men in the middle"!

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No offence John but you are very lucky if you do see a group of kids playing a “ kick - round” in the local park. One interesting point, I was talking to a referee and he said “ what’s the point in me paying to re- register and buy kit”. Next year I could just volunteer and be paid the same and save money?

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Le boss, so what you are saying is that again it’s some referee’s who are at fault, I can assure you that in my own experience you can never tell, I have had games where afterwards I have been told that I am the best referee they have had all season, a few games later I am the worst and an adverse report is sent in. Just for your info I have been a referee for 45 seasons and reached a contrib league level, so well experienced.

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3 hours ago, le boss said:

With the CCFA "forcing" games to go ahead without referees will see matches descend into complete chaos and more and more abandonments.

I can’t see why this should happen as the players should be there to play in the spirit of the game and not be a bunch of idiots spoiling it for everyone else! 

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The pigeon has come home to roost, the writing has been on the wall for a long time now. 

So why doesn't everyone just shut there gobs and let the referee's get on with it. 

There's 23 people on the pitch and they ALL want to enjoy it.

And. Don't forget the lino's,  they get some stick as well. 

I know a few who won't do that anymore either. 

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4 hours ago, le boss said:

Will the lack of officials have any impact on the insurance that clubs have to have? With the CCFA "forcing" games to go ahead without referees will see matches descend into complete chaos and more and more abandonments. Whilst I agree player behaviour has deteriorated, it does appear that it is the same referees that are the subject of the worse behaviour - coincidence?? We all know the referees who don't have any problems but no one asks or realises why that is. All too easy to blame others instead of admitting your own shortcomings.

CCFA are merely ensuring that all Leagues are applying the compulsory FA Rules.  I would add that it seems a good number of players have more shortcomings than the referees they show little respect towards. I know there has to be passion in the game and players often react in the heat of the moment - but this is where self-control should come into play. If respect can be given to referees in other sports (who also don't get every decision right!), why is it not the same football?

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7 hours ago, John Mead said:

CCFA are merely ensuring that all Leagues are applying the compulsory FA Rules.  I would add that it seems a good number of players have more shortcomings than the referees they show little respect towards. I know there has to be passion in the game and players often react in the heat of the moment - but this is where self-control should come into play. If respect can be given to referees in other sports (who also don't get every decision right!), why is it not the same football?

I think it's not the same in football John, because these players who act like hooligans have got away with it for too long. Sadly I can see more teams withdrawing from the leagues. I hope I'm wrong.

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14 hours ago, B Manning said:

Le boss, so what you are saying is that again it’s some referee’s who are at fault, I can assure you that in my own experience you can never tell, I have had games where afterwards I have been told that I am the best referee they have had all season, a few games later I am the worst and an adverse report is sent in. Just for your info I have been a referee for 45 seasons and reached a contrib league level, so well experienced.

I'm not blaming anyone B Manning. All I was asking if it is a coincidence that it appears to be the same referees who get the bad press. I can name referees who don't seem to be subject to the bad behaviour just as you can raise a list of those who are. Has a referee ever been approached by the powers to be and told - "sorry but you are not cut out for this" ? And just for your info I was involved as a player and manager for 30 odd years, so well experienced too.

13 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

I can’t see why this should happen as the players should be there to play in the spirit of the game and not be a bunch of idiots spoiling it for everyone else! 

Oh for a Utopian world. Games get abandoned now because of bad behaviour and that is with officials. Lets hope I'm wrong. Can anyone answer the insurance query?

 

 

 

 

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On 27/09/2019 at 23:49, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

The pigeon has come home to roost, the writing has been on the wall for a long time now. 

So why doesn't everyone just shut there gobs and let the referee's get on with it. 

There's 23 people on the pitch and they ALL want to enjoy it.

And. Don't forget the lino's,  they get some stick as well. 

I know a few who won't do that anymore either. 

Older as usual  a  straight to the point post  and so true ,  myself have hung up the flag this season because of verbal abuse , and threat of being knocked out last season even got told hope you drop dead you old c... , fantastic a d this was from a so called big local teams reserves , so have started watching , good example   combo game yesterday , appalling  conditions for players officials  ,glad I was in the stand the Hayle  linesman gave an offside ,  his first one in the game up goes the cheat shout from the manager ,   the poor linos were bloody  soaked yesterday   , why just get off there backs , I did remonstrate with the manager ,  to be told afterwards  he is a doctor  glad he ain't mine . Until the premier league  gets a grip of this  it wont filter down to lower levels ,  perhaps the local refs should withdraw  their  services  for a month , now that would be a stand .

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35 minutes ago, stevieb said:

Older as usual  a  straight to the point post  and so true ,  myself have hung up the flag this season because of verbal abuse , and threat of being knocked out last season even got told hope you drop dead you old c... , fantastic a d this was from a so called big local teams reserves , so have started watching , good example   combo game yesterday , appalling  conditions for players officials  ,glad I was in the stand the Hayle  linesman gave an offside ,  his first one in the game up goes the cheat shout from the manager ,   the poor linos were bloody  soaked yesterday   , why just get off there backs , I did remonstrate with the manager ,  to be told afterwards  he is a doctor  glad he ain't mine . Until the premier league  gets a grip of this  it wont filter down to lower levels ,  perhaps the local refs should withdraw  their  services  for a month , now that would be a stand .

Did the referee send off the player who called you that??

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Put the flag down and walk away then. If you can put up and take some abuse/criticism then do so but it shouldn’t be personal. 

I got called a cheating c**t by a player right in front of referee Paul Minns once, and he did nothing. Flag down and off I went!

 

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24 minutes ago, St Darren said:

Did the referee send off the player who called you that??

No Darren our manager and skipper both told him , but he didn't even come over , I told him after the game he just told me to smile , and said he gets it most weeks , I told him  that I am a volunteer  and shouldn't have to put up with it . Funny had the same ref in my last game he said at the end see you next season  I said no that's my last game , when he asked why I told him what happened  he looked at me and said who was the ref I said you lol .  Wasnt just the players Darren it was the management  one who threatened  to knock me out , one who I know said Steve I don't like c... and your a c.... . Funny a few weeks  later I went to watch an evening  game at Helston , the same one who called me a James hunt , was in the bar , I said to my mate that's the one who called me a hunt  he couldn't  even look me in the eye , if he had the guts to either say sorry or you are a hunt  but he didn't funny didn't  see him anywhere after the match .

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You’re right in what you say as a volunteer.  As a lino you struggle with it but need the support of a ref.  Tiny Blisland once sent off one of our players for calling me a ****!

For the referees it’s easy for them though. If they get abuse then do something about it, it would then stop!! I honestly have no sympathy for them if they don’t do anything about it! 

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17 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

I used to run the line many, many years ago.

Got called a cheat once, sparked the bloke out, finished the game and never ran the line again. 

He apologised when they came to our place...didn't buy me a pint though...miserable git!

With behaviour like that I can see why you are hero-worshipped at Kernick. 

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I remember a funny incident many years ago, Truro Combination side were playing an evening fixture away to Perranwell and we provided a linesman called Jimmy Andrew, he was given a lot of grief from the home team, rightly or wrongly I can't remember but he got so angry he ended up throwing his flag over the nearest hedge, it was a classic. Most biased lino I can remember was John Symons at Chacewater, does anyone remember him. No longer with us now I'm afraid.

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10 hours ago, Rayvon said:

I remember a funny incident many years ago, Truro Combination side were playing an evening fixture away to Perranwell and we provided a linesman called Jimmy Andrew, he was given a lot of grief from the home team, rightly or wrongly I can't remember but he got so angry he ended up throwing his flag over the nearest hedge, it was a classic. Most biased lino I can remember was John Symons at Chacewater, does anyone remember him. No longer with us now I'm afraid.

Yup, remember him...had a scuffle with him once as well...lol

10 hours ago, le boss said:

With behaviour like that I can see why you are hero-worshipped at Kernick. 

And I wonder why your nickname is BASH!

The angel of Helston,  not exactly the shrinking violet in your playing days...lol

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Sadly, as I've put on previous threads, there is far too large a cohort of scum in the game who adopt a win at all cost approach which includes berating the man in the middle from first to last whistle. Once this transpires from the management down to the players and spectators, this abhorrent and venomous behaviour sets a trailblaze for others to follow suit. 

If I was a referee and someone called me a cheating ****; I'd simply blow the whistle, abandon the game and drive off, see ya later, bye!

 

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34 minutes ago, Roche Raider said:

Sadly, as I've put on previous threads, there is far too large a cohort of scum in the game who adopt a win at all cost approach which includes berating the man in the middle from first to last whistle. Once this transpires from the management down to the players and spectators, this abhorrent and venomous behaviour sets a trailblaze for others to follow suit. 

If I was a referee and someone called me a cheating ****; I'd simply blow the whistle, abandon the game and drive off, see ya later, bye!

 

But surely you would do a good job so that no one would have any need to complain?

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Surely the new sin-bin directive will have a positive effect on the way referees get treated as long as it is enforced strongly.

I watched a pre-season game this season where a team had two sin-bins and the manager was sent-off.  I have since seen the same team and the change in behaviour was very noticeable. Also there was an element of self-policing.  A player got sent to the sin-bin in a later match. He was then shunned by his manager and most of the players for putting the result at risk by having to play with 10 men.

All sensible clubs will change their behaviour if they see that they will be routinely punished to the point that the result will be put at risk.

The referees now have clear instructions on the course of action for dissent.  If they use these powers then many of the afore-mentioned problems will disappear.

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1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

But surely you would do a good job so that no one would have any need to complain?

Foresight a wonderful thing my friend, but a referee cannot please everybody and when you have 11 coked up thugs screaming at you; it's obvious how it's going to end. What's more of a disgrace is club captains don't nip things in the bud; they allow events to manifest to the point where things get ugly and out of control!

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I don't think that this problem ie. shortage of referees , will go away , in fact I think it will get worse . Here in Norfolk the situation has been helped by the  fact that we have lost a large number of teams and the number of referees has remained roughly the same . However , when Norwich City play at home , the number of referees available drops . We have had this rule in place for a number of years and so far it has worked but not without difficulties .

 I think that the situation will get worse because of the society we live in with it's lack of discipline generally and  poor justice system . Football is a unique game as regards abuse and hostility . I was at Plymouth a couple of weeks ago  and had to suffer a home supporter behind me screaming abuse at the officials and opposition players all game every tackle by a Plymouth player was fair , even though the Cheltenham player was left writhing in pain , every Cheltenham tackle was a foul . As the game progressed his abuse got worse until , great supporter that he is , he left when Cheltenham scored their second goal . Now this scenario happens at every ground week in week out . It doesn't happen at any other sport as far as I'm aware , certainly not on a regular basis . Some of the problem I lay at FIFA's door , they tinker with the rules and create more problems for example , VAR  and the farcical  accidental handball rule  ( no goal if a goal is scored , no penalty if a defender handles it ) did the Marx Brothers think that one up ? and yet they allow the surrounding of officials and abuse of officials . I know there's a rule against these things but it's rarely enforced . I know this wouldn't solve the spectator abuse problem but the player behaviour problem can only get worse if it isn't clamped down on at the top . And of course the legion of pundits don't help with comments like " he had to do that " or " he took one for the team "  young players , even grown up one's , think that it's acceptable even at village football  level . It's terribly sad that lower level football could die out  or slowly wither away because of a shortage of officials to police it , which it will unless drastic measures are taken at the top .

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7 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Yup, remember him...had a scuffle with him once as well...lol

And I wonder why your nickname is BASH!

The angel of Helston,  not exactly the shrinking violet in your playing days...lol

Its not my nickname it is most of my surname - duh!!! Not a shrinking violet but certainly wouldn't punch anyone or advocate any player I later managed to punch someone. 

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21 minutes ago, le boss said:

Its not my nickname it is most of my surname - duh!!! Not a shrinking violet but certainly wouldn't punch anyone or advocate any player I later managed to punch someone. 

Lol don't know yer surname :rolleyes:

Obviously I must try to live up to your expectations. 

Must try harder 

Must try harder 

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On 29/09/2019 at 20:05, Dave Deacon said:

What difference should that make?

I was a bit worried about his health because he was shouting at the ref to keep an eye on him , and was moaning to his lino as well blood pressure  was certainly  up 😂😂😂 and some reference to premature ej.........n  infront of the stand with a capacity  crowd of 4 😉

 

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Reading this thread from the start, one thing seems clear to me - match attendance is going to get smaller and smaller. Sad days. I fear that fenman may be right, the game at our level may well wither away to nothing. I hope it doesn't.

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Just a thought and I hope its not too political . If the Extinction  people have their way it might at a stroke solve the referee shortage problem because the will be very few , if any , football teams left  because the players won't be able to travel to games unless they live within cycling distance . As a result there will be a surplus of referees but they could only be able to do local games within cycling distance  . Unless of course they live near a railway station or the local bus route takes them near a ground . Just thought in a moment of madness !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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1 hour ago, fenman said:

Just a thought and I hope its not too political . If the Extinction  people have their way it might at a stroke solve the referee shortage problem because the will be very few , if any , football teams left  because the players won't be able to travel to games unless they live within cycling distance . As a result there will be a surplus of referees but they could only be able to do local games within cycling distance  . Unless of course they live near a railway station or the local bus route takes them near a ground . Just thought in a moment of madness !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Madness or daftness?

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I'd probably describe myself as eccentric more than mad . However  the reason I posted this is that recently I was accosted in Norwich by one of these people . They were hi jacking a road planning exhibition . He bombarded me with what their demands were . When I managed to get a word in I asked him what would happen to motor sport , he said that they would seek to ban all sport involving the use of fossil fuels  .Thinking about this it brought back memories of the early 60's when I first played village football . Very few people had cars then ( incredible to think that it was only 50 years ago when most of the population didn't have a car ) so football , cricket and darts teams had to hire a coach in order to play away fixtures . So a half serious thought developed as to what would happen to sports and hobbies like fishing if the use of personal transport is banned .

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The Climate Extinction supporters are right in thought if not always in deed. There is no doubt that global warming is a potential disaster for the world and all that live here, man, beast and plant! I think that the very fact that Donald Trump doesn’t believe in it is proof enough! As for motor sport; Formula E is alive and well and just as exciting as Formula 1 and the like.

I too remember 50 odd years ago with very few cars and lots of (on time) busses (now becoming electric too) and believe it or not, there was still plenty of well supported football and cricket as indeed there was fifty years before that at the dawn of motoring. As with all such things, accept and adapt.

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Whilst a newcomer to the delights of non league football and therefore speaking from a position of limited  time experience I have always believed in leading by example.   You only have to read a few of this forum’s pages to understand some managers, coaches et al, do not believe or care for this example and their behaviour clearly resonates through their team; therefore the league officials need to take decisive and robust action and remove said offenders, known to all, from the proceedings and see what happens.  A game without rules, and those to officiate them, is no game!

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42 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

I think you will find it resonates down from the top.

Sorting out from the premiership down is the true starting point.

I think it’s a bit easy to say that, rather than stand up for what’s going on right here on a touchline close to you. I agree that the top flight need to lead but,  when was the last time you heard the kind of vile vitriol come from a Premier League Manager that is heard coming from the mouths of part time wannabes  week in week out?  League officials feeling continually threatened is shocking and needs to be sorted out at this level, by example, I would suggest?

That is of course my humble opinion!

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It is easy to say that because it's true.

Discipline, example and regulation are all led from the top, in life with your parents, and at work and play by authority. 

When there is no lead you get what you have today in society, it has simply spilled over into sport.

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10 hours ago, Guzzvaliant said:

I think it’s a bit easy to say that, rather than stand up for what’s going on right here on a touchline close to you. I agree that the top flight need to lead but,  when was the last time you heard the kind of vile vitriol come from a Premier League Manager that is heard coming from the mouths of part time wannabes  week in week out?  League officials feeling continually threatened is shocking and needs to be sorted out at this level, by example, I would suggest?

That is of course my humble opinion!

I’m with Guzzvaliant on this one. We’ve had the Respect agenda for a number of years now and still we get abusive behaviour at all levels of football. Hopefully the Sin-bin, when fully implemented will have some effect on players, but often the worst offenders are in the dugouts. Certainly I would like to see referees take a more robust stance, however they must feel supported by the individual leagues and, of course the CCFA. Ever increasing fines and extensive bans are the only actions some of these bullying thugs understand. It would be nice for Cornwall to be the first lout free county!

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