footballlegend7 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Is it my understanding that even though being a junior side of a senior side still has to put in 7 days for a duel signing? Is there anything that happens if that doesn’t happen if it is the rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mead Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, footballlegend7 said: Is it my understanding that even though being a junior side of a senior side still has to put in 7 days for a duel signing? Is there anything that happens if that doesn’t happen if it is the rule? It's a Country-wide FA Rule. You cannot approach a registered player of any CLUB without giving 7 days notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, John Mead said: It's a Country-wide FA Rule. You cannot approach a registered player of any CLUB without giving 7 days notice. Unless you’re a higher level club and then you just get away with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgerow Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Got to put 7 days to the club, but you can ask them if they would waiver it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobjfh Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 If your question is that it is two teams in the same club - then to my understanding you can simply dual register. It is only if registering / approaching from another Club that 7 days applies. TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Carpenter Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 11 hours ago, St Darren said: Unless you’re a higher level club and then you just get away with it Not all the time Darren. There's been a number of cases over the last few years where complaints have been made and the offending clubs charged. TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Steve Carpenter said: Not all the time Darren. There's been a number of cases over the last few years where complaints have been made and the offending clubs charged. But there have also been a number of times where it has been swept under the carpet. Been in a club that has had it done to them and they’ve done it to others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballlegend7 Posted August 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Yea we r a single club and a peninsula west prem maybe I dunno whatvleague they r hav signed one our lads on n has played without a 7 day notice asked or anything, we hav no qualms with him playing for them wen we dnt hav a game but I think they should still adhere to the rules so how would we go about making a complaint and see them charged? Just because we are a lower team they seem to think they can do what they like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobjfh Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 Footballledgend7 - if rules breached you can notify CCFA (probably Richard Pallott) and the appropriate league secretary. Just one thing, player registrations do not carry over automatically - so he may not have been ‘your’ player before he signed - as SWPL teams start first he may have signed for them before you and technically be their player. There is also a slight issue in that some players tell new club Secretaries they are not signed / owe fees etc for a club and there is only so much a new Secretary can do to verify that - there is no ‘central’ Player Registration point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Carpenter Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 59 minutes ago, Bobjfh said: Footballledgend7 - if rules breached you can notify CCFA (probably Richard Pallott) and the appropriate league secretary. Just one thing, player registrations do not carry over automatically - so he may not have been ‘your’ player before he signed - as SWPL teams start first he may have signed for them before you and technically be their player. There is also a slight issue in that some players tell new club Secretaries they are not signed / owe fees etc for a club and there is only so much a new Secretary can do to verify that - there is no ‘central’ Player Registration point. Spot on Bobjfh. These issues are dealt with by Richard and not the leagues though it's always good to keep us all in the loop. 13 hours ago, St Darren said: But there have also been a number of times where it has been swept under the carpet. Been in a club that has had it done to them and they’ve done it to others Maybe by the clubs deciding not to proceed but I do know that those that have been referred to County have been dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said: Spot on Bobjfh. These issues are dealt with by Richard and not the leagues though it's always good to keep us all in the loop. Maybe by the clubs deciding not to proceed but I do know that those that have been referred to County have been dealt with. Do the clubs a player is registered with not come up on Whole Game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 11 hours ago, bighairydave said: Do the clubs a player is registered with not come up on Whole Game? Not really. They come up as associated clubs. So, for example my list includes Trevenson, a team I played for when I was 16. I put a recommendation to the FA last season and again this season requesting that they actually display the League's that a player is currently registered to (and with what club). I pretty much got fobbed off though. For a registration secretary, that's one thing I'd really like to see so that I can ensure correct protocol has been followed. For a club secretary, it's just as important. I can see the clubs a player is attached too, but not who they're actually registered with. A player will remain attached to a club until they detach them. TheolderIgetthebetterIwas and Foul Throw 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballlegend7 Posted August 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 No he re signed with us again long time ago and only just signed for this peninsula west side this week so I’ll get our secretary to get hold of someone about it as I feel they should be charged as we are abiding by rules wen duel signing combination players to ourselves! Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foul Throw 3 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Football legend 7, if the club in question were also in the Duchy leagues, I would side with you and feel they were in the wrong. But being a SWL side, I'm confident they have not committed any error. E.g. one single player could be signed on for 4 different clubs in 4 different leagues, such as SWL, St Piran, ECPL, P&D and/or Duchy leagues, and that player can play for any of the four on any day with no one being in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Foul Throw 3 said: E.g. one single player could be signed on for 4 different clubs in 4 different leagues, such as SWL, St Piran, ECPL, P&D and/or Duchy leagues, and that player can play for any of the four on any day with no one being in the wrong. That being the case, isn't the grumble here that the 7 days notice wasn't given by the SWPL club to the other one? Also, another question from me and apologies if I haven't spotted it explained above, but what if the player didn't tell the SWPL that he had already signed for someone, is the above thread suggesting there's no way of picking this up still, even though we have various FA Whole Game/Full Time sites etc etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foul Throw 3 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 - My understanding is a SWL club don''t need to submit an approach to a Duchy club (for example) to sign a player as the leagues do not conflict. The player can freely be signed on for both. 2 - If a Duchy side attempt to sign a player already signed to a Duchy side, this is picked up on WGS yes. It was last season anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Carpenter Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Just for clarity, in 2013 the CCFA sent out the attached document to clarify the situation re multiple signings. The first line of FA Rule C2 (at the bottom of the first page) is very clear and, having just checked, has not changed nor have the criteria/procedures quoted. Illegal Approach FA Regulations.pdf Just now, Foul Throw 3 said: 1 - My understanding is a SWL club don''t need to submit an approach to a Duchy club (for example) to sign a player as the leagues do not conflict. The player can freely be signed on for both. Not technically the case I'm afraid - see my post above. The practical reality is that if both clubs are happy an exchange of e-mails to give protection to both clubs in case of any future complaint is normally all that is needed for 'multi-league signings' and everybody gets on with the game. The first club club the player signs for is however entitled to hold any other clubs to the rules if they so wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foul Throw 3 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Thanks Steve. Good to know, difficult to police! WGS certainly doesn't flag up registrations between non-conflicting leagues. Don't believe it shows a date someone is registered either, unless someone with higher permissions than what i'm seeing does, which would be good. But even so, a difficult role to undertake at this level of football as it is all volunteers that take these roles on for their respective leagues and clubs. One of the many thankless tasks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 42 minutes ago, Foul Throw 3 said: Thanks Steve. Good to know, difficult to police! WGS certainly doesn't flag up registrations between non-conflicting leagues. Don't believe it shows a date someone is registered either, unless someone with higher permissions than what i'm seeing does, which would be good. But even so, a difficult role to undertake at this level of football as it is all volunteers that take these roles on for their respective leagues and clubs. One of the many thankless tasks. The Registration Secretary's and Club Officers can see when Registrations were accepted by the Leagues so when there is a question about who signed a player first, it's very easy to determine. WGS does give information to Clubs and Secretary's of what Clubs a player is attached too - unfortunately it doesn't tell you if the player is actually registered to a League, which is a concern that I have raised with the FA. Unfortunately the response I get when I email them doesn't quite show that they understand the system from a League Reg. Sec point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said: The Registration Secretary's and Club Officers can see when Registrations were accepted by the Leagues so when there is a question about who signed a player first, it's very easy to determine. WGS does give information to Clubs and Secretary's of what Clubs a player is attached too - unfortunately it doesn't tell you if the player is actually registered to a League, which is a concern that I have raised with the FA. Unfortunately the response I get when I email them doesn't quite show that they understand the system from a League Reg. Sec point of view. How do you detach from those links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieb Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Easy one to sort change the rules one player one club only , would make registration easier , players would sign for a club and have to transfer properly , eg any fines owing , ect would have to paid before moving , and everyone could see what club they are signed for. I think Cornwall maybe the only county you can sign for multiple clubs , but I stand to be corrected on that . Would probably stop the Ringers discussions we have every season . Soccer Follower 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Carpenter Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, stevieb said: Easy one to sort change the rules one player one club only , would make registration easier , players would sign for a club and have to transfer properly , eg any fines owing , ect would have to paid before moving , and everyone could see what club they are signed for. I think Cornwall maybe the only county you can sign for multiple clubs , but I stand to be corrected on that . Would probably stop the Ringers discussions we have every season . That would indeed be the solution BUT when this question was asked the reply from FA Legal was no, can't be done unless a player is contracted. And before anyone mentions cricket they were also clear in that what cricket does (and if they don't anymore then I stand to be corrected) would not stand up to a legal challenge should one be made. The rules apply nationally so Cornwall is not on it's own with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said: That would indeed be the solution BUT when this question was asked the reply from FA Legal was no, can't be done unless a player is contracted. And before anyone mentions cricket they were also clear in that what cricket does (and if they don't anymore then I stand to be corrected) would not stand up to a legal challenge should one be made. The rules apply nationally so Cornwall is not on it's own with this. In cricket though there is one competition for all on a Saturday. And you are allowed to play for a different club in Evening League to what you can play on a Saturday just the same as in football (i.e. different competitions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mead Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Interestingly, a transfer can no longer be held up because a player is alleged to owe money to the club he is moving from. However, the money can be recouped through the FA Debt Recovery System via CCFA. TheolderIgetthebetterIwas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitty Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 On 13/08/2019 at 22:20, John Mead said: It's a Country-wide FA Rule. You cannot approach a registered player of any CLUB without giving 7 days notice. Interesting that John I’m still waiting for the NOA for Reece Monteith to PZ 😳 Dave Bartlam and Dave Marks 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mead Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Nothing to do with me Pity - but I will pass on the message to the relevant person. Always difficult for Club Secretaries when managers go direct to the players, rather than through the correct channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitty Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 No problem John and agree Club secretaries are now bypassed on the WGS system making a single point of contact very difficult to control🤯 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, Pitty said: No problem John and agree Club secretaries are now bypassed on the WGS system making a single point of contact very difficult to control🤯 Blame the FA mate for taking notices of approach away from the WGS. Last season, the notice of approach was put in through the system. It gave people the option to say they'd sent the seven days and were waiting (it would send a notification for the club to accept or reject) or they'd spoken to the club offline and it had been waived. Many people used the second option when they didn't even speak to the other clubs. This got abused all the time so the FA took it away. A mistake in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitty Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 What I think might need to happen Dave is all clubs detach players now not signed on - I will be doing it for our club this week at least that will get rid of the ‘current club’ status which can confuse the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bartlam Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 57 minutes ago, Pitty said: What I think might need to happen Dave is all clubs detach players now not signed on - I will be doing it for our club this week at least that will get rid of the ‘current club’ status which can confuse the issue That's the advice I gave clubs on day one (and continue to give them). It makes things so much easy for all Administrators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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