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Statement re LWC Drinks Cornwall Combination League Constitution 2019-20

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Strategy for determining the Membership of the LWC Combination League for 2019/20 Season.

1. There will be no compulsory relegation from the League at the conclusion of the current season.

2. All Combination League Clubs which are not successful in their bid for promotion to Step 7 will be assured of a place in the Combination League for the 2019/20 season, along with those which opted not to apply for promotion. In addition, any Club currently a member of the SWP Div.1 West which seeks voluntary relegation from that League, will also be assured of a place in the Combination League.

3. Once the final numbers in the League are determined as above, additional teams, up to a maximum of 16, will be selected using the following priorities:

Priority A. TWO Clubs from the Trelawny League which finish in a promotion position as specified in our Rules.

Priority B. ANY Clubs playing in the East Cornwall League which opt to make a side-ways move providing their geographical location does not cause excessive travel for visiting Teams.

Priority C. ANY Club from the Trelawny League Premier Division who wish to join the Combination League but did not finish in an automatic promotion position. In addition, ANY Club from the Duchy League Premier Division, providing their geographical location does not cause excessive travel for visiting teams. Average points per game will be used to determine successful applicants.

While the Combination League are proud of the fact that they have helped and encouraged Clubs to improve their facilities over the years by imposing minimum Ground Grading standards, the FA’s re-structuring and the creation of the St Piran League has created a problem, in that the minimum standards for entry to Step 7 are not as high as the current Combination League criteria! With this in mind, there is no longer a necessity for Clubs to meet any Ground Grading standards other than the following: -

a) The pitch must comply with the FA minimum size and be roped off to deter spectator access to the playing area.

b) The Home Club must provide adequate changing, shower and toilet facilities for Match Official and Players.

CLUBS CURRENTLY PLAYING IN THE TRELAWNY WHICH HAVE ALREADY EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN JOINING THE COMBINATION LEAGUE NEXT SEASON ARE NOW ASKED TO CONFIRM THEIR APPLICATION BY CONTACTING LESTER THOMAS BEFORE 15TH MAY.

01209 219239 or lesterthomas1710@hotmail.com

In light of the statement from the St Piran League, the Cornwall Combination has extended the date for applications to join it.

 

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Sad to say but with the ground grading gone is the Combo league now not in all sense and purposes an extension of the Trelawny League (Premier + so to speak) without the problematic travelling of the new St Piran. Over 50 years of history sadly sat in a slightly awkward place as a stand-alone single division between the trelawny & St Piran now without the entry requirements that elevated its stature above FHFL & Mining Leagues of days gone past. A positive step to reduce the teams to 16 but if in the eyes of the CCFA the Combo and ECPL are classed as ‘recreational’ leagues so why are they also competing in the Senior Cup???

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1 hour ago, Pitty said:

Sad to say but with the ground grading gone is the Combo league now not in all sense and purposes an extension of the Trelawny League (Premier + so to speak) without the problematic travelling of the new St Piran. Over 50 years of history sadly sat in a slightly awkward place as a stand-alone single division between the trelawny & St Piran now without the entry requirements that elevated its stature above FHFL & Mining Leagues of days gone past. A positive step to reduce the teams to 16 but if in the eyes of the CCFA the Combo and ECPL are classed as ‘recreational’ leagues so why are they also competing in the Senior Cup???

A couple of points Neil.

All leagues that sit outside the NLS are, in the view of the FA, recreational leagues and have been for the last few years.  It is not a CCFA decision, they just rank those leagues in a 'pecking order.

From conversations I've had over the last few months I'm lead to believe that ground grading outside the NLS cannot be used to to stop promotion.  This has been enforced in other counties and Cornwall is now having to fall in line.

Don't get too tied up on the title 'Senior when talking about the cups.  Many counties don't have a senior cup and in some of those that do it's not necessarily their highest cup competition.  It makes sense in Cornwall where we only have 2 cups to retain the historic definitions that everybody is familiar with and rightly cherish.  They could easily be called something else but that would be a pointless change.

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53 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said:

A couple of points Neil.

All leagues that sit outside the NLS are, in the view of the FA, recreational leagues and have been for the last few years.  It is not a CCFA decision, they just rank those leagues in a 'pecking order.

From conversations I've had over the last few months I'm lead to believe that ground grading outside the NLS cannot be used to to stop promotion.  This has been enforced in other counties and Cornwall is now having to fall in line.

Don't get too tied up on the title 'Senior when talking about the cups.  Many counties don't have a senior cup and in some of those that do it's not necessarily their highest cup competition.  It makes sense in Cornwall where we only have 2 cups to retain the historic definitions that everybody is familiar with and rightly cherish.  They could easily be called something else but that would be a pointless change.

Chippy maybe the pecking order regarding the county cups should then look at clubs within the county that sit within the NLS and those that reside outside and adjust accordingly. Maybe rename one the ‘Premier’ cup for the NLS sides and the ‘’Johnson Paint Trophy’ 😉 for the recreational leagues

Some positives from the restructure is the reductions in numbers within the Combo league now down to 16 and the fact it remains a league that comprises members in the West of the county that reduces travelling times

i think going forward now to ensure the future of the Combo the application ‘letter of intent’ process needs to be abolished and it is a straight promotion and relegation into and out of Trelawny Premier every season

..........although just to add the team that have just won the Trelawny League Premier played 50% of their matches on 3G (don’t get me started on that advantage) wilI wonder how that would sit with the Combo Committee as no mention of it on the entry criteria

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This is where for me things get hard to understand as to just who is in charge of what!

If the Combination League is outside of the FA Pyramid structure, why can’t the League still impose its own standards for entry? 

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1 hour ago, Pitty said:

Chippy maybe the pecking order regarding the county cups should then look at clubs within the county that sit within the NLS and those that reside outside and adjust accordingly. Maybe rename one the ‘Premier’ cup for the NLS sides and the ‘’Johnson Paint Trophy’ 😉 for the recreational leagues

Some positives from the restructure is the reductions in numbers within the Combo league now down to 16 and the fact it remains a league that comprises members in the West of the county that reduces travelling times

i think going forward now to ensure the future of the Combo the application ‘letter of intent’ process needs to be abolished and it is a straight promotion and relegation into and out of Trelawny Premier every season

..........although just to add the team that have just won the Trelawny League Premier played 50% of their matches on 3G (don’t get me started on that advantage) wilI wonder how that would sit with the Combo Committee as no mention of it on the entry criteria

I totally agree with you comment about 3G pitches Neil, however, Plymouth Marjons have just completed a full season in the Peninsula West division playing on a 3G pitch. Unfortunately, as far as the FA are concerned, a pitch is a pitch as long as it’s the correct size. Of course, they don’t have to play on it. !!!  🤬

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As long as a 3G pitch is approved and on the FA's list, it can be played on at any level. The "permission" to do so is included in both the Standard Code (Step 7 and below) and Standardised Rules (Steps 1-6).

2 hours ago, Pitty said:

 😉

I think going forward now to ensure the future of the Combo the application ‘letter of intent’ process needs to be abolished and it is a straight promotion and relegation into and out of Trelawny Premier every season.

That's how it will be, Pity: this year is a one-off to replace the teams "lost" to St Piran League. The agreement between Combo & Trelawny Leagues will revert to the 2 up, 2 down at the end of next season.

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2 hours ago, kevin richards said:

I totally agree with you comment about 3G pitches Neil, however, Plymouth Marjons have just completed a full season in the Peninsula West division playing on a 3G pitch. Unfortunately, as far as the FA are concerned, a pitch is a pitch as long as it’s the correct size. Of course, they don’t have to play on it. !!!  🤬

I seem to remember Arsenal having to play an FA cup tie on a 3g pitch a couple of years ago against a non-league team

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2 hours ago, John Mead said:

As long as a 3G pitch is approved and on the FA's list, it can be played on at any level. The "permission" to do so is included in both the Standard Code (Step 7 and below) and Standardised Rules (Steps 1-6).

That's how it will be, Pity: this year is a one-off to replace the teams "lost" to St Piran League. The agreement between Combo & Trelawny Leagues will revert to the 2 up, 2 down at the end of next season.

So...if Combo accepts some Duchy Prem sides....as read at the start .....this season and they get relegated at the end of next season will they then be relegated to the Trelawney??????

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4 hours ago, Pitty said:

Chippy maybe the pecking order regarding the county cups should then look at clubs within the county that sit within the NLS and those that reside outside and adjust accordingly. Maybe rename one the ‘Premier’ cup for the NLS sides and the ‘’Johnson Paint Trophy’ 😉 for the recreational leagues

Possibly but that's for the Competitions Committee to look at.  All competition rules are under on going review and whilst there are no changes regards who competes in the cups next season it can of course change in the future.

 

5 hours ago, Dagerags said:

Sad that teams have lost there status through no fault of there own. 

Probably reduce participation even further. 

What status would that be Dagerags?  There hasnt been any such thing as 'Senior' status for a number of years, the clubs will still compete in the Senior Cup and the leagues position in the order of things is unchanged.

4 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

This is where for me things get hard to understand as to just who is in charge of what!

If the Combination League is outside of the FA Pyramid structure, why can’t the League still impose its own standards for entry? 

That's because they still come under the various rules and regs of the FA Dave and what they are saying is that, until you get to the NLS a club cannot be denied promotion on the basis of ground grading.

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Sounds like the Combo is slowly becoming a Junior League, time to pack up and jump onto the pyramid structure. 

Im sure plenty of people will agree that the Combo simply isn’t what it was. Some might argue that the standard of Cornish football isn’t what it was a decade+ ago. 

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9 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said:

That's because they still come under the various rules and regs of the FA Dave and what they are saying is that, until you get to the NLS a club cannot be denied promotion on the basis of ground grading.

So a league is unable to set its own standards. How wrong is that!

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Makes sense to me. The Combination League has great history and following, but it’s in danger of falling behind the times and isolating itself from Cornish football. I love in principal everything it stands for and it has been/is and hopefully will be for many years to come. I think it is important to realise that all of this is an FA directive and therefore, the CCFA have to implement. 

What doesn’t sit rightly with me is how Newquay - and yes I can understand how they are a club with great history - can expect and probably be moved into he Combination League? 

They transferred to the ECPL to save themselves from relegation, they then got relegated from the ECPL and now find themselves second from bottom in the EC Div 1, a relegation spot. Now they are expecting to not just make a sideways move, but one that involves going up a league when they are in the relegation zone of their own league?

With Sticker applying, I love their facilities but is the Combination League not a league for West Cornwall teams? I know historically teams from further afield have entered, but with the changes in creating St Piran’s as a county league, I think it’s important that the Combination League offers local football. Pendeen to Sticker is 1hr 5mins from each other. 

There are teams in the Trelawny League that would be assets to the Combination, one hopefully being promoted to the Premier and have expressed interest in joining the Combination League (I say with Claret and blue glasses on). 

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18 minutes ago, WendronOfficial said:

With Sticker applying, I love their facilities but is the Combination League not a league for West Cornwall teams? I know historically teams from further afield have entered, but with the changes in creating St Piran’s as a county league, I think it’s important that the Combination League offers local football. Pendeen to Sticker is 1hr 5mins from each other. 

There are teams in the Trelawny League that would be assets to the Combination, one hopefully being promoted to the Premier and have expressed interest in joining the Combination League (I say with Claret and blue glasses on). 

I really hope your joking when you say Sticker are applying for the Combo League!!!

"providing their geographical location does not cause excessive travel for visiting Teams."

So we are going to lose clubs closet to us and replace them with clubs further afield!

As for Newquay Res, surely finishing bottom of ECPL Div 1, that is the equivalent of Trelawny Premier.

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17 minutes ago, Mr Justice said:

I really hope your joking when you say Sticker are applying for the Combo League!!!

"providing their geographical location does not cause excessive travel for visiting Teams."

So we are going to lose clubs closet to us and replace them with clubs further afield!

As for Newquay Res, surely finishing bottom of ECPL Div 1, that is the equivalent of Trelawny Premier.

why not.......they were part of the league for 3 seasons back in the 70's.....even have their name on the league cup.

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If our local football history is correct, Sticker played in the combo several years ago.                    If just over an hour to get to an opponents pitch is too much travelling time, the question must be would the combo winners want to be promoted to the Peninsula West if they had to travel to Bere Alston for example.
Come on lads we are only talking about Cornwall, how isolated and insular do you want to be.
Teams in the Peninsular Premier league have been given stick for not taking promotion to a higher league due to travel issues, are we now suggesting that Cornwall needs to be divided up when an hour and a half tops will get you between most places in the county.

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Mullion to St Just 27.6 miles

Mullion to Sticker 35 miles

 

Falmouth to Pendeen 34.4 miles

Falmouth to Sticker 22.8 miles

 

Hayle to Lizard 22.3 miles

Hayle to Sticker 33.7 miles

 

St day to St Ives  18.7 miles

St Day to Sticker 19.2 miles

 

Dont get the issue 💁‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Mr Mo said:

Mullion to St Just 27.6 miles

Mullion to Sticker 35 miles

 

Falmouth to Pendeen 34.4 miles

Falmouth to Sticker 22.8 miles

 

Hayle to Lizard 22.3 miles

Hayle to Sticker 33.7 miles

 

St day to St Ives  18.7 miles

St Day to Sticker 19.2 miles

 

Dont get the issue 💁‍♂️

Get a life 

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Sticker,  Bugle Res, Roche, St Dennis and St Breward have all graced the Combination League. Newquay Res played Combo whilst Godolphin Atlantic played East Cornwall at the same time. These Leagues have no geographical border and using St Breward as the example what would if be to stop say Bodmin Reserves applying to join the Combo? Probus played ECPL for many years when the travelling might have been less in the Combo.

A few more examples:

St Columb Major - ECPL

St Columb Minor - Combo

St Newlyn East - ECPL

Crantock - ECPL

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Major are playing Duchy League after moving from the Mining League. 

Minor joined forces with Newquay before both teams disbanded

St Newlyn East,  another ex Mining League team now in the Duchy League

Crantock folded yonks ago.

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We need teams in the Combo with floodlights for evening games, mid-week Representative matches and cup games.

Both Sicker and Newquay have lights along with Penryn and Helston from the Trelawny. 4 sides possibly in the Combo with lights.

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16 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

We need teams in the Combo with floodlights for evening games, mid-week Representative matches and cup games.

With only 16 teams the early and late midweek matches should be less of a problem though!

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2 hours ago, cornishteddyboy said:

We need teams in the Combo with floodlights for evening games, mid-week Representative matches and cup games.

Both Sicker and Newquay have lights along with Penryn and Helston from the Trelawny. 4 sides possibly in the Combo with lights.

We can't even get sides with Dug Outs let alone floodlights!

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4 hours ago, cornishteddyboy said:

We need teams in the Combo with floodlights for evening games, mid-week Representative matches and cup games.

Both Sicker and Newquay have lights along with Penryn and Helston from the Trelawny. 4 sides possibly in the Combo with lights.

Less teams, less chance of evening games, less chance of NEEDING the use of lights. 

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4 hours ago, WendronOfficial said:

Why does the league need teams with lights? This is not on the criteria stated above so how can clubs with lights be given preferential treatment over those who don’t? 

Neither does the criteria state that a club must be within an hours journey to qualify
Why are there such negative attitudes towards clubs that have good facilities, surely the combo needs to look to improve its stature within cornish football, and not dismiss a clubs application purely because it's an hours journey away.
We have always thought of Wendron as a go ahead forward looking club and admit to being a little surprised by some of the negative comments of Wendron Official.

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5 hours ago, WendronOfficial said:

Why does the league need teams with lights? This is not on the criteria stated above so how can clubs with lights be given preferential treatment over those who don’t? 

Where does say that clubs who have lights will be given preferential treatment? Nowhere, it is just my opinion that it would be good if some clubs in the league had lights. 

The statement at the top of this thread tells you how clubs will be chosen. 

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3 hours ago, We Two said:

Neither does the criteria state that a club must be within an hours journey to qualify
Why are there such negative attitudes towards clubs that have good facilities, surely the combo needs to look to improve its stature within cornish football, and not dismiss a clubs application purely because it's an hours journey away.
We have always thought of Wendron as a go ahead forward looking club and admit to being a little surprised by some of the negative comments of Wendron Official.

You may read my comments as negative, but I’m trying to be positive toward the West teams. It is definitely not against clubs that have good facilities as there are clubs in the Trelawny that have great facilities. I’m negative in regards to travel and teams transferring from one league, certainly in regards to Newquay who I love as a club and what they offer in terms of facilities, but it does not sit right with me that they can avoid relegation from the Combo by transferring to the ECPL, only to be relegated from that. Now to be request transferring back as they face relegation from Division 1, which is effectively below the Combination League. 

My reasons behind opposing Sticker joining, again it is not opposed to the club - who were second to none in hosting our recent Senior Cup semi final - but in regards to the geographic location. We have teams pulling out of St Piran’s because of travel commitments, in my opinion the Combination League provides the standard for teams in the West of the county. We already have teams failing to fulfil fixtures for relatively close games, now they have the prospect of games even further afield. As Whistleblower proved, a lot of teams from the area of the two teams in question have had a demise or now no longer exist, a key reason for that was travel at this level. Sticker reserves currently sit 4th and could finish 5th in the Duchy Prem, I’m aware it is a League that can feed into the Combination but it still doesn’t sit right with me personally, purely a matter of my own opinion. 

I think that you’ve made my thoughts seem negative, and apologies if I’ve come across that way, but I’m trying to be positive in ensuring sustainability to clubs and giving clubs in the Trelawny League, the Combination’s natural feeder - although not only feeder - league the opportunity to progress. Definitely not a case of negativity or anti forward thinking as we are hoping to be represented in the SW Cornwall Premier, St Piran’s as well as applying to the Combination for our third team (may be part of the reason behind my perceived negativity 😉). 

Nothing personal toward Sticker in the slightest - a club to be admired.  

 

 

2 hours ago, cornishteddyboy said:

Where does say that clubs who have lights will be given preferential treatment? Nowhere, it is just my opinion that it would be good if some clubs in the league had lights. 

The statement at the top of this thread tells you how clubs will be chosen. 

Sorry - your use of ‘we’ I took as multiple people and thought it may be a view that the Combination League expresses or shares. My apologies for the misinterpretation, just the way I read your initial comment. 

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No one gives two shots about playing senior football anymore.... best players in the west are playing trelawney div league's and won't step up...

The standard you play doesn't matter to players, even youngster, they just want to play with mates and win trophies...

Alot of great players just sit around in lower leagues playing with mates and don't want to push themselves 

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On 08/05/2019 at 08:49, Steve Carpenter said:

Don't get too tied up on the title 'Senior when talking about the cups.  Many counties don't have a senior cup and in some of those that do it's not necessarily their highest cup competition.  It makes sense in Cornwall where we only have 2 cups to retain the historic definitions that everybody is familiar with and rightly cherish.  They could easily be called something else but that would be a pointless change.

As far as I can see, only Durham and Herefordshire don't have a competition called "Senior Cup" (or very similar).

Durham have three tiers - Challenge Cup, Trophy Cup & Minor Cup while Herefordshire have County Challenge Cup & Junior Cup.

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2 hours ago, Richard Rundle said:

As far as I can see, only Durham and Herefordshire don't have a competition called "Senior Cup" (or very similar).

Durham have three tiers - Challenge Cup, Trophy Cup & Minor Cup while Herefordshire have County Challenge Cup & Junior Cup.

Devon have the St Lukes Bowl and I  believe the others are the Premier Cup and Intermediate Cup/Trophy 

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On 09/05/2019 at 20:36, WendronOfficial said:

You may read my comments as negative, but I’m trying to be positive toward the West teams. It is definitely not against clubs that have good facilities as there are clubs in the Trelawny that have great facilities. I’m negative in regards to travel and teams transferring from one league, certainly in regards to Newquay who I love as a club and what they offer in terms of facilities, but it does not sit right with me that they can avoid relegation from the Combo by transferring to the ECPL, only to be relegated from that. Now to be request transferring back as they face relegation from Division 1, which is effectively below the Combination League. 

My reasons behind opposing Sticker joining, again it is not opposed to the club - who were second to none in hosting our recent Senior Cup semi final - but in regards to the geographic location. We have teams pulling out of St Piran’s because of travel commitments, in my opinion the Combination League provides the standard for teams in the West of the county. We already have teams failing to fulfil fixtures for relatively close games, now they have the prospect of games even further afield. As Whistleblower proved, a lot of teams from the area of the two teams in question have had a demise or now no longer exist, a key reason for that was travel at this level. Sticker reserves currently sit 4th and could finish 5th in the Duchy Prem, I’m aware it is a League that can feed into the Combination but it still doesn’t sit right with me personally, purely a matter of my own opinion. 

I think that you’ve made my thoughts seem negative, and apologies if I’ve come across that way, but I’m trying to be positive in ensuring sustainability to clubs and giving clubs in the Trelawny League, the Combination’s natural feeder - although not only feeder - league the opportunity to progress. Definitely not a case of negativity or anti forward thinking as we are hoping to be represented in the SW Cornwall Premier, St Piran’s as well as applying to the Combination for our third team (may be part of the reason behind my perceived negativity 😉). 

Nothing personal toward Sticker in the slightest - a club to be admired.  

 

 

Sorry - your use of ‘we’ I took as multiple people and thought it may be a view that the Combination League expresses or shares. My apologies for the misinterpretation, just the way I read your initial comment. 

Well said sir. Clearly and precisely explained. Wendron are a great example of what a club can be and, what a club can aspire to.

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7 hours ago, Whistle Blower said:

Devon have the St Lukes Bowl and I  believe the others are the Premier Cup and Intermediate Cup/Trophy 

They also have a Senior Cup, between the Premier Cup and the Intermediate Cup. 97 teams this year, won by The Windmill reserves who beat Kentisbeare on penalties.

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1 hour ago, Richard Rundle said:

They also have a Senior Cup, between the Premier Cup and the Intermediate Cup. 97 teams this year, won by The Windmill reserves who beat Kentisbeare on penalties.

My bad.

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