DRAFT list of the constitutions for next season at Step 6

[Dave Deacon]

7 hours ago, Webby191 said:

this is grass roots football. We’re at the bottom of the ladder near enough.This is a hobby for most. Decisions shouldn’t be made with no real analysis of the potential impact.

Unfortunately though this is the issue with getting involved with a FA linked league .

The FA are trying to almost force all clubs to “progress” and they find it hard to understand that actually there are limitations because it is practically only a “hobby”.

The most popular suggestion given to clubs is “more funding available the higher you go” or “well, you have to be Step 6 to enter the FA Vase” - perhaps clubs will need  to decide whether they do need to be in the Step 6 FA set-up as don’t forget success on the pitch WILL EVENTUALLY mean Western League and even more problems with that,  or rather perhaps instead, they should settle for a Step 7 purely all-county based competition and go back to enjoying life without so many pressure points.

Step 7 doesn't mean failure!

[Dave Deacon]

There’s some  restructuring discussion on the latest weekly podcast.

https://overcast.fm/+L4f7ADpn8/48:30

[Webby191]

If the FA really want to force teams to progress then simply make promotion non negotiable. You win the league then take promotion or suffer a consequence. Some teams have got away it for a decade, teams with a lot of money but even with that money they’ve realised there could be some huge consequences in taking promotion.

 Frustrating that this restructure is bad luck for us but it is very easy for people to just say ‘bad luck, suck it up’ when it means nothing to them. I don’t think anyone would say step 7 is failure. However, step 6 and not step 5 is manageable for the vast majority of teams literally because of the geography of where we live and the extremely poor transport links in the South West, means better crowds, less travel but a good standard of football and players want to play as high as they can but the key here is that it has to be sustainable for a club to take that step up. The new restructure essentially gives us a lot of the same responsibilities as if we were Western League.  For us, that is not sustainable and if we were to ‘live beyond our means’ that would only either mean capitulation or negative comments about paying so much money for players etc that most teams get on here. So either way, we can’t win. I appreciate a constructive reply though Dave.

[Rob1978]

It’s far easier to have sympathy for a club like Millbrook who are already punching above their weight and do not have a playing budget. However when bigger clubs show a lack of ambition due to travel costs but continue to splash the cash on players, these deserve no sympathy. The fa have already changed the setup for Cornwall. There are 17 step 6 leagues instead of the 16 which would create the perfect pyramid the Fa wants. Essentially swpl west is the 17th league. Both swpl leagues will have 1 promotion spot, the rest 2. This has all been brought about by the failure of big Cornish sides to take promotion in the past despite big budgets. The new setup allows ambitious Devonian clubs a route into the western without their pathway being blocked by the same old clubs in the same old positions. There is still potentially a promotion opt out for Cornish sides. Advocates for a Cornish only league insist this would create more derbies. This isn’t the case for Tamerside clubs who loose derbies and face more travel whichever league they are in. The new league setup will work for most clubs, but unfortunately Millbrook are the fall guys. However what else are Fa supposed to do? They have to move lots of clubs laterally every season. They have to apply a consistent rule across the board in order to be fair, hence the grid system. Blame Bodmin, St Austell etc for Millbrook’s plight, especially when they use money to poach other clubs players, but then can’t afford the petrol to Bristol, not the Fa! If the big Cornish sides played in the Western, they could use local youngsters like Millbrook do, to save costs. However they seem to think that winning the same old league year in year out is better. It isn’t!!

[panda]

17 hours ago, bighairydave said:

23 miles compared to 13 miles from Millbrook though so only 10 miles more!

I think you will find no players live in Millbrook. They are from Torpoint or Plymouth

[quiksilver]

48 minutes ago, Rob1978 said:

It’s far easier to have sympathy for a club like Millbrook who are already punching above their weight and do not have a playing budget. However when bigger clubs show a lack of ambition due to travel costs but continue to splash the cash on players, these deserve no sympathy. The fa have already changed the setup for Cornwall. There are 17 step 6 leagues instead of the 16 which would create the perfect pyramid the Fa wants. Essentially swpl west is the 17th league. Both swpl leagues will have 1 promotion spot, the rest 2. This has all been brought about by the failure of big Cornish sides to take promotion in the past despite big budgets. The new setup allows ambitious Devonian clubs a route into the western without their pathway being blocked by the same old clubs in the same old positions. There is still potentially a promotion opt out for Cornish sides. Advocates for a Cornish only league insist this would create more derbies. This isn’t the case for Tamerside clubs who loose derbies and face more travel whichever league they are in. The new league setup will work for most clubs, but unfortunately Millbrook are the fall guys. However what else are Fa supposed to do? They have to move lots of clubs laterally every season. They have to apply a consistent rule across the board in order to be fair, hence the grid system. Blame Bodmin, St Austell etc for Millbrook’s plight, especially when they use money to poach other clubs players, but then can’t afford the petrol to Bristol, not the Fa! If the big Cornish sides played in the Western, they could use local youngsters like Millbrook do, to save costs. However they seem to think that winning the same old league year in year out is better. It isn’t!!

At last someone talking sense 

[Flabby Cabbie]

On 16/04/2019 at 12:21, Hetty said:

Just thought id spend half an hour to work out exactly what the hysteria is about. The facts are as follows, there will be 128.6 Miles more travelling for Millbrook in the East Division over the West. Is that really what this is about? 128 miles ? 

What happens if Millbrook are in the West division and get drawn in the cup away to Crediton which is exactly 128 miles away from Millbrook? will Millbrook go bust ? 

I therefore maintain this is just sour grapes because they just don't want to be in the East Division. 

However If it really is because they are concerned about the financial impact the travelling will have on the club,  i think its obvious from the below that they need to really consider if they can afford to be part of this new set up at all, the new additions in the west league have increased the travelling for teams on the Tamar to a level where there is almost no difference in the mileage between the two leagues.  

 

(The figures below are for a Round Trip)

 

Millbrook to AXMINSTER TOWN – 160.4

Millbrook to BOVEY TRACEY – 78.80

Millbrook to BRIXHAM     - 86.8

Millbrook to CREDITON UNITED – 128

Millbrook to CULLOMPTON RANGERS - 132

Millbrook to DARTMOUTH -82.6

Millbrook to ELBURTON VILLA - 24.8

Millbrook to ELMORE – 151.4

Millbrook to HOLSWORTHY 84.2

Millbrook to HONITON TOWN   137.6

Millbrook to ILFRACOMBE TOWN 169.4

Millbrook to IVYBRIDGE TOWN – 42.6

Millbrook to NEWTON ABBOT SPURS - 83

Millbrook to PLYMOUTH MARJON – 21.8

Millbrook to SIDMOUTH TOWN 131.8

Millbrook to STOKE GABRIEL   75.2

Millbrook to TORPOINT ATHLETIC – 10.8

Millbrook to TORRIDGESIDE   - 121

Millbrook to TORRINGTON – 124.2

 

Total – 1846.40

 

Millbrook to BODMIN TOWN – 58.8

Millbrook to CALLINGTON TOWN – 36.8

Millbrook to CAMELFORD – 79.2

Millbrook to DOBWALLS   - 35.8

Millbrook to FALMOUTH TOWN – 126.2

Millbrook to GODOLPHIN ATLANTIC – 95.8

Millbrook to HELSTON ATHLETIC – 145.4

Millbrook to LAUNCESTON – 60.4

Millbrook to LISKEARD ATHLETIC – 31.2

Millbrook to MOUSEHOLE - 158.6

Millbrook to NEWQUAY -95.8

Millbrook to PENZANCE – 150.8

Millbrook to PORTHLEVEN – 147.6

Millbrook to ST AUSTELL - 69

Millbrook to ST BLAZEY – 62.4

Millbrook to ST DENNIS   - 83.2

Millbrook to STICKER – 75.8

Millbrook to WADEBRIDGE TOWN - 72.8

Millbrook to WENDRON UNITED   - 132.2

 

Total with Saltash in the East - 1717.8 Miles

Could you do the same for Launceston please

[CoachKT]

Without any disrespect to any clubs in the SWPL; given the proposed list of clubs in both the East and the West divisions for next season, I would have thought, that with Exmouth Town and Tavistock both likely to be promoted into the Western League then the new Premier Division East (on paper) is not as strong as the Premier Division West and, as such, Torpoint and Millbrook will have a better chance of winning it than they would the West Division.

In terms of travel, I think the Torpoint Ferry is being used as a lame excuse, if I'm being perfectly honest.

We (Plymouth Marjon), having been in Division One West this season have faced some horrendously long journeys into West Cornwall (Penzance, Mousehole, Wendron, Ludgvan, Porthleven etc), not to mention Bude in North Cornwall, but all we do is meet & leave earlier in the day.

Next season, we'll be in Premier Division East and will arguably face more daunting trips to Ilfracombe, Torrington, Torridgeside, Elmore, Cullompton, Sidmouth, Crediton and Axminster, most of which are hardly an easy route (with the exception of Cullompton (up the A38 / M5). However, we're venturing into Step 6, not because were good enough on the pitch (our current league position proves that), but because we want to progress as a club and give our players the opportunity to play at the highest level possible and also lay the foundation for our young players coming through the club's youth system.

As has been already mentioned in this thread, the majority of Millbrook's players either live in Plymouth or Torpoint.....so how hard would it be for the Torpoint based players to get an earlier ferry to meet with the rest of the squad Plymouth side and go on from there?

The ferry aside, a trip to Axminster is no more arduous than going down to Mousehole surely.....and given the squad that Mousehole have assembled, Axminster represents a greater opportunity for 3pts!!              

[Ian Pethick]

2 hours ago, Rob1978 said:

It’s far easier to have sympathy for a club like Millbrook who are already punching above their weight and do not have a playing budget. However when bigger clubs show a lack of ambition due to travel costs but continue to splash the cash on players, these deserve no sympathy. The fa have already changed the setup for Cornwall. There are 17 step 6 leagues instead of the 16 which would create the perfect pyramid the Fa wants. Essentially swpl west is the 17th league. Both swpl leagues will have 1 promotion spot, the rest 2. This has all been brought about by the failure of big Cornish sides to take promotion in the past despite big budgets. The new setup allows ambitious Devonian clubs a route into the western without their pathway being blocked by the same old clubs in the same old positions. There is still potentially a promotion opt out for Cornish sides. Advocates for a Cornish only league insist this would create more derbies. This isn’t the case for Tamerside clubs who loose derbies and face more travel whichever league they are in. The new league setup will work for most clubs, but unfortunately Millbrook are the fall guys. However what else are Fa supposed to do? They have to move lots of clubs laterally every season. They have to apply a consistent rule across the board in order to be fair, hence the grid system. Blame Bodmin, St Austell etc for Millbrook’s plight, especially when they use money to poach other clubs players, but then can’t afford the petrol to Bristol, not the Fa! If the big Cornish sides played in the Western, they could use local youngsters like Millbrook do, to save costs. However they seem to think that winning the same old league year in year out is better. It isn’t!!

This post hits the nail squarely on the head. A few home truths, uncomfortable as they may be, for some of the Cornish clubs.

[We Two]

6 hours ago, Webby191 said:

If the FA really want to force teams to progress then simply make promotion non negotiable. You win the league then take promotion or suffer a consequence

We thought that is the case isn't it ?

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

2 hours ago, Millbrook Chairman said:

 

to all the doubters and abusers we have done it without you and will continue to do so and to the rest of you including the wider football family thanks for your continued support.

debate over

Millbrook AFC 

Well done to you I say...I like your principles. 

[Dave Deacon]

3 hours ago, Rob1978 said:

There is still potentially a promotion opt out for Cornish sides.

And Devon clubs as well presumably?

[Rob1978]

Guess so

[Dave Deacon]

51 minutes ago, Rob1978 said:

Guess so

So why just pick on the Cornish clubs? 

[Rob1978]

Not picking on Cornish clubs at all. Just feel some of the bigger clubs could have shown a bit more ambition. Of course Devon clubs have turned down promotion in the past as well. Just don’t think Millbrook can blame Fa for situation. They have already adapted the rules for the far southwest. When referencing the promotion opt out, I referred to Cornish clubs as they are much more likely to use it. 

[Richard Rundle]

I don't expect the promotion opt-out to last any more than two seasons, perhaps even one.

[SteveM]

Have the FA explained their methodology in depth for determining which clubs join the East division?

I was curious so I investigated whether Millbrook really was more Easterly than Saltash. I wanted to make it a fair comparison so I chose the midpoint of each football pitch.

Millbrook is (242796, 052493)

Saltash is (242115, 059067)

For those that can't read Easting and Northing map coordinates, the centre of Millbrook's pitch is more Easterly than Saltash's pitch by approximately 680 meters. So in the strictest sense, Millbrook is closer to the East than Saltash by just over half a kilometer. Bearing in mind the explicit requirement that no club should be forced to travel past another ground to fulfill a league fixture, it seems obvious to me that the FA have got this wrong and Millbrook should be kept in the West division at the expense of Saltash.

Incidentally, Torpoint is at (243013, 054938), making it only approximately 220m further East than Millbrook...

All three clubs shown here: https://gridreferencefinder.com?gr=SX4279652493|Point_s_J|1,SX4211559067|242115_s__c__s_059067|1,SX4301354938|Point_s_E|1&v=r

[Paul]

I still think the current model or Prem East and West works very well IF all 3 leagues are full on numbers. The west division was awful this season with 15 teams. What would make it more intresting is a play off in each division. 2nd v 3rd in East and West. The winners play each other in a neutral venue. 

My worry is still the fact we didn't have 3 full leagues. Now we will have 4. Will clubs stick with it? 

I for one enjoy the trips to the likes of Exmouth etc. Im not sure a league with just Cornish sides is a step forward. 

Time will tell. 

[Martin Cook]

On 15/04/2019 at 16:24, BIG AL said:

Why is this bunch in Exeter in charge of new Cornish league anyway?

Because we have electricity LOL 

[Hetty]

Wonder if the new league set up will encourage any teams to follow Tavistock and exmouth next season.  If promotion really is mandatory it won’t be long before the western league is mainly Devon sides and Cornwall sides 

[Dave Deacon]

32 minutes ago, Paul said:

Now we will have 4.

4 ?

[baldy]

Make that 5.

[Rob1978]

1 hour ago, Hetty said:

Wonder if the new league set up will encourage any teams to follow Tavistock and exmouth next season.  If promotion really is mandatory it won’t be long before the western league is mainly Devon sides and Cornwall sides 

You get promoted to a level ie step 5. The Fa then work out the boundaries. Next season at least one team to the east of the western league - Chipping Sodbury or Bradford will be assigned to another league to make way for Tavi, Exmouth and possibly Street. The more clubs take promotion, the more the Western league will drift west. Based on ability, resources etc a step 5 should just cover Devon, Cornwall and Somerset. Hopefully this will start to happen. 

[Dave Deacon]

8 hours ago, Rob1978 said:

Based on ability, resources etc a step 5 should just cover Devon, Cornwall and Somerset. Hopefully this will start to happen. 

Wasn’t this one of the selling points of the SWPL in the beginning? And it didn’t happen because of clubs questioning their own sustainability!

[Fanfare]

On 28/04/2019 at 21:14, Paul said:

I still think the current model or Prem East and West works very well IF all 3 leagues are full on numbers. The west division was awful this season with 15 teams. What would make it more intresting is a play off in each division. 2nd v 3rd in East and West. The winners play each other in a neutral venue. 

My worry is still the fact we didn't have 3 full leagues. Now we will have 4. Will clubs stick with it? 

I for one enjoy the trips to the likes of Exmouth etc. Im not sure a league with just Cornish sides is a step forward. 

Time will tell. 

The SWL had 15 teams for many a season back along.

Next season could see Braintree Town playing in the National League NORTH! This arises as the four teams relegated from the National League are all southern based teams.