1st team players playing for reserve sides

[RedRuth68]

I’ve seen a lot of comments recently regarding a number of teams fielding 1st team players for reserve sides.

Why does it seem everyone has negative comments regarding this topic?

 

Thanks,

Red

[hedgerow]

Only one team been mentioned, Tavistock. Can’t have a pop at Parkway, let’s pick on Tavistock. 

Hardly a mention if a Cornish field first team players 

[RedRuth68]

I’ve personally seen a few ECPL sides do this, this season and I don’t see an issue with it. However there seems to be a certain vendetta against Tavistock for doing so?

No mention of Torpoint doing so Tuesday night (in a great close game), callington also did this against Liskard a few weeks back, and also playing Harry Eaton last Wednesday against Tavistock.

but why is it highlighted so heavily for one team but not the others?👀😳

[rob brown]

Tavi turn to get the abuse. Moved on from Torpoint-we been getting that for years!! 

[S Abbo]

No issue... you sign for the club.

[Martin Eddy]

As babo said if you sign for a club you should be allowed to play for any side in your club. It's when players sign for 3 or 4 different clubs.

[Dave Bartlam]

1 hour ago, Postman Pat said:

As babo said if you sign for a club you should be allowed to play for any side in your club. It's when players sign for 3 or 4 different clubs.

I had a notice of approach for a player a few months back... It went to 7 Saturday clubs, all in different Leagues.... 

[Toroloco13]

15 hours ago, RedRuth68 said:

I’ve personally seen a few ECPL sides do this, this season and I don’t see an issue with it. However there seems to be a certain vendetta against Tavistock for doing so?

No mention of Torpoint doing so Tuesday night (in a great close game), callington also did this against Liskard a few weeks back, and also playing Harry Eaton last Wednesday against Tavistock.

but why is it highlighted so heavily for one team but not the others?👀😳

Think you are missing the point here! No one has an issue with an odd first teamer helping out .. it's when regular reserve players are dropped for first teamers in desperation to win games that I have a problem with!!  And when teams are playing 6/7/8 first teamers! 

Harry Eaton did help out for less than 45 against Tavi but only because captain CM was on back shift, 17 year old that plays week in week out had a bad back and he and other under 18s had two games to play that weekend plus winger was ill, striker injured, CB away, WB working etc etc. 

Same against Liskeard, first team keeper as Bart was away with Devon and other keeper has been carrying an injury for most of the season. 

Would never drop regular players for first teamers, would rather be mid table with regular side with dignity in tact and loyalty of the lads than win games by bringing in ringers week in week out! 

 

[Martin Eddy]

Toroloco 13 that describes what a football club should be allowed to do. Sometimes clubs need to play more than the allowance because of availability but cannot.

 

[SteveM]

What I don't understand is why there is a reluctance for reserve players to feature in the first team if they're short, even if just to make up the numbers on the bench. You'd imagine that some reserves would fancy going up against the bigger boys but (from what I can tell) it rarely happens. I've seen St Blazey field their club secretary up front to fulfil a first team league fixture just last season, and IIRC only one reserve turned up to play that day.

[RedRuth68]

4 hours ago, Toroloco13 said:

Think you are missing the point here! No one has an issue with an odd first teamer helping out .. it's when regular reserve players are dropped for first teamers in desperation to win games that I have a problem with!!  And when teams are playing 6/7/8 first teamers! 

Harry Eaton did help out for less than 45 against Tavi but only because captain CM was on back shift, 17 year old that plays week in week out had a bad back and he and other under 18s had two games to play that weekend plus winger was ill, striker injured, CB away, WB working etc etc. 

Same against Liskeard, first team keeper as Bart was away with Devon and other keeper has been carrying an injury for most of the season. 

Would never drop regular players for first teamers, would rather be mid table with regular side with dignity in tact and loyalty of the lads than win games by bringing in ringers week in week out! 

 

But why does it matter if it’s regularly that 1st team players play or not? My question would be that it’s one club, with players helping both sides be successful, why don’t more clubs do it? Isn’t that what a reserve side should be used for? Create opportunities for players to play above and players to drop down and be able to get minutes that are needed. Maybe clubs are just jealous that they don’t have a good relationship between reserve and first teams.

Red

[Toroloco13]

3 hours ago, RedRuth68 said:

But why does it matter if it’s regularly that 1st team players play or not? My question would be that it’s one club, with players helping both sides be successful, why don’t more clubs do it? Isn’t that what a reserve side should be used for? Create opportunities for players to play above and players to drop down and be able to get minutes that are needed. Maybe clubs are just jealous that they don’t have a good relationship between reserve and first teams.

Red

Players to step up yes and players to drop down if minutes are needed when they are coming back from an injury/ban but to regularly drop regular reserve players so that first teamers who do NOT need minutes as they play week in week out for the first team is morally not the way to do things! 

The only reason this is done is to win games!

No jealousy here, great relationship between teams, just feel sorry for the lads that keep getting dropped. 

For instance, lad gets man of the match at last game but doesn't start at the next game as is replaced by a regular first teamer! 

First team played played on a Saturday and the following Tuesday so how are minutes needed?! 

[Tony B]

I don't think there's a problem with 1st teamers playing for 2nd teams etc. But I heard that when Tavistock Played Liskeard the other week they had 6 1st team players. Personally why can't there be a restriction of 2/3 players allowed to play. Before anyone says I'm picking on Tavistock, I don't think it's fair on the 2nd team lads that miss out, so the 1st teamers play.

[Dave Bartlam]

10 minutes ago, The Boy said:

I don't think there's a problem with 1st teamers playing for 2nd teams etc. But I heard that when Tavistock Played Liskeard the other week they had 6 1st team players. Personally why can't there be a restriction of 2/3 players allowed to play. Before anyone says I'm picking on Tavistock, I don't think it's fair on the 2nd team lads that miss out, so the 1st teamers play.

There are restrictions. 

[Jason Prynne]

Don't really know what the issue is,rules say field your strongest team possible at all times,we played cally 2nds in the league cup a couple weeks ago,there 1st team keeper played(another keeper on the bench)& at least a couple 1st teamers played from the bench but it is what it is as it's all within the rules.none of us are world beaters !!

[Toroloco13]

12 minutes ago, Jason Prynne said:

Don't really know what the issue is,rules say field your strongest team possible at all times,we played cally 2nds in the league cup a couple weeks ago,there 1st team keeper played(another keeper on the bench)& at least a couple 1st teamers played from the bench but it is what it is as it's all within the rules.none of us are world beaters !!

First team keeper played because the keeper that was on the bench has been injured the majority of the season and was only there to warm up the other keeper.  We had a defender who needed minutes after a ban as we were short and a midfielder as again we were short. You had I think 4 SWPL players playing for you. 

I keep repeating myself!! MY ISSUE IS NOT SWPL PLAYERS PLAYING IN ECPL, IT''S DROPPING REGULAR PLAYERS FOR FIRST TEAM PLAYERS PURELY TO WIN GAMES!! 

 

[Jason Prynne]

Please name the swpl players that played as there wasn't anyone that doesn't play for us every week other than our 2nd team manager (duchy3),all the rest are just the normal lads 

[karaoke]

15 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

There are restrictions. 

What restrictions ?

[John Mead]

Restrictions apply in Combo and Trelawny Leagues; not sure about ECPL or Duchy!

[Dave Bartlam]

47 minutes ago, karaoke said:

What restrictions ?

Rules may state that a team can only play a maximum of two players that are deemed to be commanding a regular place with a higher placed team (more than 50% of fixtures and/or proceeding three games) - that's Trelawny wording which has been adapted by us.

The Standard Code of Rules states however:

18(M):

A Team shall not include more than [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ] Players who has/have taken part in [ ] or more senior Competition Matches during the current Playing Season unless a period of 21 days has elapsed since they last played. For the purpose of this Rule a senior competition(s) is/are [ ].

I've gone on to the ECPL and Duchy Leagues Full time and league websites - I can't find a rule download so I can't say whether that rule applies I'm afraid. 

 

[hedgerow]

Rule does not apply to the ECPL 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Football (all sport) is about winning.

So if you can beef your team up to get a result 99% of clubs will do it.

Been going on since time began and will continue so.

You take it on the chin if you have to make way for a "ringer" or move on.

But. You will come across it wherever you go.

[hedgerow]

If Clubs feel that strongly about this subject they can always put a proposal for a league change, seconded by another Club, at the AGM

2 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Football (all sport) is about winning.

So if you can beef your team up to get a result 99% of clubs will do it.

Been going on since time began and will continue so.

You take it on the chin if you have to make way for a "ringer" or move on.

But. You will come across it wherever you go.

I agree 

[Toroloco13]

On 12 April 2019 at 22:18, Jason Prynne said:

Please name the swpl players that played as there wasn't anyone that doesn't play for us every week other than our 2nd team manager (duchy3),all the rest are just the normal lads 

Thought you had a Goldophin and a Sticker lad there. I apologise if I got it wrong x

[Jason Prynne]

1 hour ago, Toroloco13 said:

Thought you had a Goldophin and a Sticker lad there. I apologise if I got it wrong x

Two of the team that played v Cally have played in the past for the teams above but are playing for us this season ,We did play a Godolphin player(who lives in the village & use to play for us before he found teams silly enough to pay him)  yesterday though as we had 6 players out & our 2nds also had a fixture 

[isaac rosenberg]

Wrote a letter to The Cornishman about this.....in 1970 ! 

Despite attempts at rule changes, it always goes on. Goonhavern and St Just actually did change the rules at one Combo AGM, but the Penzance-Porthleven-Helston mafia got the CCFA to help them out. Fixtures would even out, if we were dealing with fair fixturing in the first place. Unfortunately Combo refixturing always works for and against the same clubs. The only thing that changes this in Cornwall is the Grim Reaper....democracy never really caught on and the turkeys can be guaranteed to vote for Xmas anyway !

At least we'll now manage to stop Brexit even if we can't shift John Roberts....some consolation there !!!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Stop Brexit isaac...I like it.

I'm voting for you as next PM...or fixture secretary - your choice.

[le boss]

5 minutes ago, isaac rosenberg said:

Wrote a letter to The Cornishman about this.....in 1970 ! 

Despite attempts at rule changes, it always goes on. Goonhavern and St Just actually did change the rules at one Combo AGM, but the Penzance-Porthleven-Helston mafia got the CCFA to help them out. Fixtures would even out, if we were dealing with fair fixturing in the first place. Unfortunately Combo refixturing always works for and against the same clubs. The only thing that changes this in Cornwall is the Grim Reaper....democracy never really caught on and the turkeys can be guaranteed to vote for Xmas anyway !

At least we'll now manage to stop Brexit even if we can't shift John Roberts....some consolation there !!!

Do you have to get up early to practice being so repetitively boring? For a man who portrays himself as an educated man, you really are short of topics to talk about. We, as forum readers, are all, by now, aware that you have a deep resentment and hatred of John Roberts. Please let it go!! Perhaps if you stayed in St Just a little longer you could have made a difference. 

[teflon123]

On 11/04/2019 at 15:17, hedgerow said:

Only one team been mentioned, Tavistock. Can’t have a pop at Parkway, let’s pick on Tavistock. 

Hardly a mention if a Cornish field first team players 

Last season Plymouth Parkway fielded 8 first team players against Polperro and won something like 8 or 9 nil.

 

 

 

[Ian Pethick]

22 hours ago, teflon123 said:

Last season Plymouth Parkway fielded 8 first team players against Polperro and won something like 8 or 9 nil.

 

 

 

Must be that time of the season again. No such thing as first team players, reserve team players or ringers, only players that are legitimately signed on and registered. If not, they're ineligible.

[Steve Carpenter]

On 13/04/2019 at 09:13, Dave Bartlam said:

The Standard Code of Rules states:

18(M):

A Team shall not include more than [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ] Players who has/have taken part in [ ] or more senior Competition Matches during the current Playing Season unless a period of 21 days has elapsed since they last played. For the purpose of this Rule a senior competition(s) is/are [ ].

 

On 13/04/2019 at 09:20, hedgerow said:

Rule does not apply to the ECPL 

The rule quoted by Dave is a mandatory rule so it must be in ECPL rules in some form.  Just a matter of which numbers are picked for the bits in the first two sets of brackets.  11 and 30 for example would pretty much give teams a free rein.

[isaac rosenberg]

On 14/04/2019 at 15:02, le boss said:

Do you have to get up early to practice being so repetitively boring? For a man who portrays himself as an educated man, you really are short of topics to talk about. We, as forum readers, are all, by now, aware that you have a deep resentment and hatred of John Roberts. Please let it go!! Perhaps if you stayed in St Just a little longer you could have made a difference. 

In "practice", I don't think I have portrayed my education in any particular way, Le Boss, but I am happy for you to  " practise" what you portray as a response to it. Brown-nose Roberts all you want, but the queue is quite long. Lived in St Just 18 years, in Truro area 17, still have a second home within earshot of Lafrowda Park I've owned for 5. Watching the Tinners for fifty years, come the end of this season. C'mon, you get a shorter sentence for causing a World War. Anyway. I am in too good a mood to argue now we gave stopped Brexit.

[le boss]

4 minutes ago, isaac rosenberg said:

In "practice", I don't think I have portrayed my education in any particular way, Le Boss, but I am happy for you to  " practise" what you portray as a response to it. Brown-nose Roberts all you want, but the queue is quite long. Lived in St Just 18 years, in Truro area 17, still have a second home within earshot of Lafrowda Park I've owned for 5. Watching the Tinners for fifty years, come the end of this season. C'mon, you get a shorter sentence for causing a World War. Anyway. I am in too good a mood to argue now we gave stopped Brexit.

"Gave" Brexit what?

[isaac rosenberg]

Nice to discover you are so linguistically aware, especially in conversation with the Perranwell lino.

[Roy D]

At tms we have 2 league winning teams of similar standard. If the 1st team have a big game they will take 2 or 3 2nd team players & the same if the reserves have a big game. That's how it should be, 1 club. 

[Fanfare]

Weren't St Just known for bringing in ringers? I'm sure Andy Bowker and possibly Marcus Crocker featured in the past but could be wrong. 

[Devon29]

On 15/04/2019 at 15:58, teflon123 said:

Last season Plymouth Parkway fielded 8 first team players against Polperro and won something like 8 or 9 nil.

 

 

 

First team had no game for 2 weeks so the club decided it would be better than a training session.  At the time the reserves had 4 games in 12 days I think it was. Everyone (aside from the Polperro Manager) was happy. 

From the reserves, 7 of them helped out / played for the first team last season. 

The club operated as a club.  Apparently though despite some saying that’s how it should be, you’re not allowed to do that in practice. 

I think there was an interesting debate last year about clubs such as Polperro who want to progress but play in what is essentially a CSWPL reserve league. To be honest, there’s an argument for both. A hot topic the past few years for Argyle reserves. 

Football is a game of opinions. You’ll never please everyone. 

 

[Tom Trust]

On 17/04/2019 at 19:43, isaac rosenberg said:

In "practice", I don't think I have portrayed my education in any particular way, Le Boss, but I am happy for you to  " practise" what you portray as a response to it. Brown-nose Roberts all you want, but the queue is quite long. Lived in St Just 18 years, in Truro area 17, still have a second home within earshot of Lafrowda Park I've owned for 5. Watching the Tinners for fifty years, come the end of this season. C'mon, you get a shorter sentence for causing a World War. Anyway. I am in too good a mood to argue now we gave stopped Brexit.

I do hope you're wrong. Never have understood happy to be governed by people they can't vote for - or, more importantly, against.

[Andys]

On 17/04/2019 at 19:53, isaac rosenberg said:

Nice to discover you are so linguistically aware, especially in conversation with the Perranwell lino.

Something I missed Isaac?

[isaac rosenberg]

1 hour ago, Andys said:

Something I missed Isaac?

Just a comma.

16 hours ago, Fanfare said:

Weren't St Just known for bringing in ringers? I'm sure Andy Bowker and possibly Marcus Crocker featured in the past but could be wrong. 

Yeah.

 

Andy Sargent, Janie Ahearn too. Back in the day. Only against Penzance, or to avoid relegation.Worth every penny to support the oppressed proletariat of Tinners against the imperialists behind the prom. 

[Jamo]

Isn't a bigger issue players from other clubs dropping down to help teams rather than First team players helping their own reserves ?

[Fanfare]

Penzance manager Dave Wadd would field his first team in the Combo if they needed the match practice. 

[John Mead]

6 hours ago, Fanfare said:

Penzance manager Dave Wadd would field his first team in the Combo if they needed the match practice. 

Rodney has never forgotten nor forgiven Penzance for playing the whole first team against St Just, a week ahead of an important Senior Cup fixture. However, it back-fired as St Just won the game! (2 - 1, if my memory serves me well).

[Dave Bartlam]

9 hours ago, Jamo said:

Isn't a bigger issue players from other clubs dropping down to help teams rather than First team players helping their own reserves ?

With all due respect, the club's these players are going to are also part of the problem. I'll use Illogan for example yesterday playing Barrie... He's played for Helston in SWPL, Illogan in Combo and Praze in Trelawny. Helston have teams in each of these league's. The teams these players play for are just as much part of the problem.

I dont see an issue with it personally, just using Barrie as an example. Nothing personal. There's alot of people that do it. There was one person in Trelawny who had a notice of approach go in this season that subsequently went to 6 other clubs!!

[ArseneWanger]

Participation in the Cornish leagues have declined recentlyso if a player chooses to help out more than one club then he should be allowed to do so, given all being eligible. One/two players don't make a team  

[cornishteddyboy]

On 21/04/2019 at 04:27, Fanfare said:

Weren't St Just known for bringing in ringers? I'm sure Andy Bowker and possibly Marcus Crocker featured in the past but could be wrong. 

We went over there one season and Rodney had bought in the Liskeard keeper and 3 Liskeard defenders. 

[Flabby Cabbie]

I have no issues with 1st team players dropping into the 2nds to help out. What I don't like is the clubs claiming what a great result it was on social media  when they've field these players. Play who you like but let's have the full facts on Twitter etc. 

[isaac rosenberg]

7 hours ago, cornishteddyboy said:

We went over there one season and Rodney had bought in the Liskeard keeper and 3 Liskeard defenders. 

Just the one defender, CTB, Jamie Ahearn....but what a defender he was ! ...., striker Andy Sargent and the goalie, St Just won 1-0....Sargent the scorer, 82 minutes. Then Nick George missed an open goal for Penzance. Combo Cup quarter final; kept our season alive after Penzance had filched fourteen of our players. 

John Mead...you fail to mention the time St Just were deprived of going top and lost an unbeaten home record, in a season in which we had already won 4-1 at Penlee Park...Wadd brought the whole first team and beat us 5-2....Terence Williams 2 goals, Malcolm Lock 3, if I remember. Quite a side in those days, Penzance. Willie Thomas, Ian Hart, Tony Kellow, yourself, perhaps, Gerald Ladner, I think, and maybe even that gangly German geezer with the bed and breakfast hostel on the prom.

We sacrificed a live cockerel and I was daubed with blood . I think somebody may have put a curse on Penzance at the time, but I had to go to bed before all the other ingredients warmed up. I had this Derby County kit in my Subbuteo collection and I flushed them all down the lavatory.  I don't think the '.Pies  have ever won anything on the field since, though I have to take my hat off to all their power behind the scenes. 

Politics, it's just witchcraft really. That's why Brexit is dead.