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V.A.R.


fenman

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It seems as if V.A.R. will be used in the premiership next year , my point for discussion with Older and the 3 B's is , will it actually solve anything ? . Apologies for using Wolves the team I support as an example . Last night Willy Boly scored an equalizer against Newcastle  in the 95th minute . There was much debate whether he fouled the goal keeper . After several replays it was concluded that the keeper missed the ball and Boly headed it in . . However some camera angles made it appear that Boly  used his arms to prevent the keeper from jumping .for it .Other camera angles show his hands dropping on the keeper after he'd headed it . Recently the same player was sent off for a tackle on a Manchester City player , again various camera angles showed that he won the ball  but as he twisted  one set of studs was showing .As Jamie Carragher said at the time in his day  it wouldn't have been a foul but todays rules state that .   studs upwards its a red card . In the Machester City game earlier in the season , Boly  scored the equalizing goal ( what a hero !!! )  with a diving header . Unfortunately  as the ball crossed the line it ran over the back of his hand . Again it took several camera angles to notice this . The referee allowed the goal as he felt that the ball ran over Boly's hand as apposed to him putting it in with his hand . In the Newcastle home game with Wolves which Wolves won 1-2  Boly was involved in more controversy when he appeared to elbow a Newcastle player in the dying seconds . The Newcastle player suffered a nose bleed . Benitez was fuming about British referees , as he did last night , but  several replays showed that the ball actually hit the Newcastle player on the nose , which was also the opinion of the referee . Although I'm a Wolves fan I like to have an unbiased view  of the incidents and I'm not going to say what's right and wrong , but my point of discussion  is , after all these incidents have been viewed by experts from different angles countless times there is still difference of opinion . So if V.A.R. is adopted  will the right decision be reached and how long will it take  AND  when it is reviewed  on Match of the Day  again countless times will a different conclusion be reached ?.

Going back to last nights game there was more controversy because there was 4 minutes added time and the goal was scored at 4 minutes and 30 seconds . Again , accusations of incompetent  ,useless refereeing . Although it was repeatedly pointed out the rules state that there will be a minimum of x minutes added time . Last night Newcastle made substitutions and dragged their heel to waste time and as a result time was added on to time added on .As a Wolves fan you can't condemn Newcastle for doing this , I'm sure any other team including Wolves would have done the same . To be fair to Newcastle they played well and they desperately needed those 3 points  in their position .

Digressing a bit , does anyone read the B.B.C.  football website ? at the end of the report about the game there is a discussion section where people send in comments . It is only read some of the comments on this site that you realise what a horrible uneducated nation we have become . Many comments are so vile that they are removed  and many are just badly written and childish , I just hope that this forum never go's down to that level .

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its a common misconception that VAR will be used for every/many decisions.

VAR protocol according to IFAB (The International Football Association Board) states that VAR is only to be used for:

  • Goal/No Goal
  • Penalty/No Penalty
  • Direct Red Card
  • Mistaken Identity

Decisions can only be overturned IF a 'Clear and obvious error' has occurred and the decision must be made by the referee.

 

"As Jamie Carragher said at the time in his day  it wouldn't have been a foul but todays rules state that .   studs upwards its a red card ."

Jamie Carragher doent know LoTG, because nowhere in them do they state that 'studs upwards it is a red' 🤷‍♂️

 

"In the Machester City game earlier in the season , Boly  scored the equalizing goal ( what a hero !!! )  with a diving header . Unfortunately  as the ball crossed the line it ran over the back of his hand . Again it took several camera angles to notice this . The referee allowed the goal as he felt that the ball ran over Boly's hand as apposed to him putting it in with his hand ."

Handball must involve a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. 🤷‍♂️

 

"So if V.A.R. is adopted  will the right decision be reached and how long will it take  AND  when it is reviewed  on Match of the Day  again countless times will a different conclusion be reached ?."

WHEN VAR is adopted the right decision SHOULD be made in LAW, and hopefully wont take to long 😂.  it really doesn't matter what is said and how many times its looked at on MotD as decisions wont be overturned or changed.

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Actually it doesn't have to be clear and obvious (take Kane's penalty in the League Cup semi final at Wembley) was flagged offside, overturned on VAR (in my view correctly) but it wasn't 'clear and obvious'. I am a fan of VAR and it's something I've wanted in the league for a long long time. I like the fact the ref can review the footage themselves and make their own mind up, rather than directly being told they've got it wrong. I believe it'll improve the game rather than make it worse myself, as proven at the moment 

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33 minutes ago, gingerninja said:

Actually it doesn't have to be clear and obvious (take Kane's penalty in the League Cup semi final at Wembley) was flagged offside, overturned on VAR (in my view correctly) but it wasn't 'clear and obvious'. I am a fan of VAR and it's something I've wanted in the league for a long long time. I like the fact the ref can review the footage themselves and make their own mind up, rather than directly being told they've got it wrong. I believe it'll improve the game rather than make it worse myself, as proven at the moment 

According to IFAB's LotG it has to be clear and obvious!

http://theifab.com/laws/var-protocol/chapters/protocol-principles-practicalities-and-procedures

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43 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Oh dear! The games will take forever. 

Var for the ball over the line to give a goal or not.

The rest of it should be the same as now warts, mistakes and all.

Even after viewing the Var there will be a thousand opinions still.

Goal Line Tech will make no need for ball over the line or not.

 

i do agree with some of what you mean by 'warts and all'........but once wrinkles are ironed out.....it will be for the better.

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I think you've agreed with me Mr. Mo  ( if I read you correctly ) . The purpose of my post is to highlight the argument based on misconceptions i.e. Boly's handling in the Manchester City game where journalists insisted that it should have been disallowed because the ball hit his hand . The referee saw it differently and awarded the goal , the goal last night was a goalkeeping error probably , but many say it was a foul on the keeper , again the referee saw it differently .Many suggest V.A.R. will solve ALL of these problems  but I believe it will still all come down to the referees interpretation , even after reviewing it .In short  human nature will still make debate over it . I'm surprised that offsides aren't included in the review process .

In the case of Boly's red card the majority of people thought it was a red card because of the studs showing BUT  many people asked if that was the case why didn't Kompany get a red card for a similar tackle the week before in the Liverpool game .  If as you say Mr. Mo there is no rule regarding raised studs at what point dos a raised boot become dangerous play ? Perhaps V.A.R.  will eliminate this  but then you get the scenario where during the appeal process the red card is recinded because the panel think the referee was wrong . It's too late the player has been sent off !!!

I think that the adoption of V.A.R.  will be interesting  but I still believe that football fans being what they are there will be those that accuse the officials of being cheats .

I myself have mixed views on it's use because it will be impossible to have the system at all levels of the game so in effect there will  be one rule for the Premiership and the rest will have to muddle along . I think that people forget that the Premiership represents only a small fraction of football played  throughout the world . Having said that , at the rate grass roots football is disappearing perhaps in a few years there will be more professional teams than grass root teams .  

 Your'e slipping Older , it took nearly 2 hours for your response ? As the modern phrase goes " I think we sing from the same hymn sheet " though .

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1 hour ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Oh dear! The games will take forever. 

Var for the ball over the line to give a goal or not.

The rest of it should be the same as now warts, mistakes and all.

Even after viewing the Var there will be a thousand opinions still.

They won't take that long, and to save time on the clock it's simple, do what they do in Rugby. Call 'time off', go to VAR (the TMO in Rugby) and then once decision is made 'time on'. Simples 

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VAR is still going to be someone’s opinions. Like someone said though, it’s meant to only be used for clear and obvious. There’s was talk about Mane’s goal being offside on Saturday but it wasn’t clear and obvious. 

I fear that a lino will flag for something tough that isn’t offside and VAR will not come into play as the ref would have already blown his whistle. 

Hopefully it may eliminate the many mistakes that Messrs Way and Atwell continue to make yet still find themselves on the list!!

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1 hour ago, St Darren said:

VAR is still going to be someone’s opinions. Like someone said though, it’s meant to only be used for clear and obvious. There’s was talk about Mane’s goal being offside on Saturday but it wasn’t clear and obvious. 

I fear that a lino will flag for something tough that isn’t offside and VAR will not come into play as the ref would have already blown his whistle. 

Hopefully it may eliminate the many mistakes that Messrs Way and Atwell continue to make yet still find themselves on the list!!

Offside will be more a matter of fact though so will be overturned even if it it very slightly the other way.

 

I also think that the assistants will flag less or, as happened a few weeks ago, the assistant will flag if they think offside after the ball has gone in the net so VAR can check either way.

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10 hours ago, bighairydave said:

Offside will be more a matter of fact though so will be overturned even if it it very slightly the other way.

 

I also think that the assistants will flag less or, as happened a few weeks ago, the assistant will flag if they think offside after the ball has gone in the net so VAR can check either way.

That Mane one wasn’t clear nor was the Kane one!

i noticed in the champs league last night that the Lino’s have been told to flag late. 

Doesn’t get away from the incompetence of Way and Atwell though

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