CORNWALL SENIOR CUP QF - SAT 2 FEB 2019

[silly billy]

8 hours ago, Monsoon said:

And what crucial equipment do you think Bodmin have fallen behind on the upkeep of ?

Spectators!!!!!

[Rob1978]

Clubs in this part of the world are undoubtedly disadvantaged geographically but here’s the rub.... up the line players at step 5 and 6 often have to pay subs. Even in the western prem a number of clubs have no playing budget. Meanwhile in the far southwest clubs still throw cash at players, a legacy of a time when Swl was semi-pro due to lack of competition from any league club. So when clubs claim they can’t afford travelling costs, the answer is simple - do what most step 5 clubs do - don’t pay your players!! Yes a club will potentially loose its best players to local rivals but there are always players who genuinely want to play at the best level they can. Maybe a Cornish club playing just youngsters, using a second hand minibus wouldn’t survive relegation in the Western league, but it would be great to see them try. The Swpl, a great league is now being broken up, to replaced by two inferior leagues, because of the lack of movement. Cornish clubs are becoming more cut off and isolated, all because priorities are wrong. 

[THE BALD ONE]

Interesting using that statement - semi pros.  What level does anyone feel is semi pro ?

[Bruegel the Elder]

12 minutes ago, THE BALD ONE said:

Interesting using that statement - semi pros.  What level does anyone feel is semi pro ?

Amateurs don’t get paid, semi-professionals get paid to play (but often pretend it’s expenses) but don’t make their living from the game, professionals have football as their only or main income stream. So I guess that semi-pros start somewhere about the Combination League🤾🏻‍♂️💷❗️

[THE BALD ONE]

Ok............. so just chucking this out there. If for example someone is getting £200 a game , would you say bordering semi pro ?

£800 a month expense is a fair wack .

[BIG AL]

14 hours ago, Rob1978 said:

Clubs in this part of the world are undoubtedly disadvantaged geographically but here’s the rub.... up the line players at step 5 and 6 often have to pay subs. Even in the western prem a number of clubs have no playing budget. Meanwhile in the far southwest clubs still throw cash at players, a legacy of a time when Swl was semi-pro due to lack of competition from any league club. So when clubs claim they can’t afford travelling costs, the answer is simple - do what most step 5 clubs do - don’t pay your players!! Yes a club will potentially loose its best players to local rivals but there are always players who genuinely want to play at the best level they can. Maybe a Cornish club playing just youngsters, using a second hand minibus wouldn’t survive relegation in the Western league, but it would be great to see them try. The Swpl, a great league is now being broken up, to replaced by two inferior leagues, because of the lack of movement. Cornish clubs are becoming more cut off and isolated, all because priorities are wrong. 

Being cut off and isolated is much better than the present SWPL set up !

[Bruegel the Elder]

41 minutes ago, THE BALD ONE said:

Ok............. so just chucking this out there. If for example someone is getting £200 a game , would you say bordering semi pro ?

£800 a month expense is a fair wack .

More than my income as a pensioner and considerably more than unemployment benefits. Unless he gets through several top-of-the-range pairs of boots a month, I’d say he was verging on professional status! I wonder if he gets a retainer in the closed season, that might be a criteria too!

[Ian Pethick]

2 hours ago, THE BALD ONE said:

Ok............. so just chucking this out there. If for example someone is getting £200 a game , would you say bordering semi pro ?

£800 a month expense is a fair wack .

The FA no longer distinguishes officially between pro's, semi-pro's or amateur. Since 1974 everybody is a "player", there is no distinction between what level they play at or what league they play in. This was a way of resolving the ridiculous days of "shamateurism" when teams were paying  unofficial and illegal expenses in leagues in which it was officially barred, and which was impossible to stop.  For example, the Southern League (containing many London area teams) was professional and the Isthmian League (mainly London & home counties) was amateur, but it was a fairly open secret that Isthmian players found brown envelopes in their boots. 

Pretty sure that nobody in the SWPL is on a pro-contract, so they would be on "expenses" not wages. Doubt they would be getting this through the summer months.

[John Mead]

Contract players are permitted at Step 6 but not below that level. It would be very difficult for a Club to justify/explain a sum of £200 as "expenses" - even using the maximum 48p per mile agreed between the FA and HMRC.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

2 hours ago, John Mead said:

Contract players are permitted at Step 6 but not below that level. It would be very difficult for a Club to justify/explain a sum of £200 as "expenses" - even using the maximum 48p per mile agreed between the FA and HMRC.

Based on that I should be getting 1.35p as I live 50yds from the club.

Winner winner chicken dinner. 

 

[sportsman10]

£150 a game has been chucked at players for years by various clubs in Cornwall and Devon  to keep certain players. Always wondered how it was possible with gates so low unless most chairman are willing to fund it out if there Pockets 

would love to see the budgets of each club laid out. 

[Alf]

If they did do it you should double it would be more like it.

[St Darren]

Out of interest. In the leagues higher but still area based as such. What’s the travelling like. Say a team based in Bristol how far do they have to travel. 

[We Two]

S.W.P.L. clubs have to lodge certified accounts with the league, and accounts should be available at all A.G.M.s of those clubs for public scrutiny.
Unless the suggestion is that clubs are pepared to submit fraudulent accounts by hiding payments to players in other sections of outgoing payments, the playing budget should be clear.
Is anyone serving on a clubs committee ( they are responsible for seeing that the club is  kept within the laws of the land ) likely to risk a criminal record and even prison,to put money in to someone else,s pocket should they be investigated by H.R.M.C. ?
It would not be the first time it has happened.

9 hours ago, sportsman10 said:

£150 a game has been chucked at players for years by various clubs in Cornwall and Devon  to keep certain players. Always wondered how it was possible with gates so low unless most chairman are willing to fund it out if there Pockets 

would love to see the budgets of each club laid out. 

 

[Ian Pethick]

3 hours ago, We Two said:

S.W.P.L. clubs have to lodge certified accounts with the league, and accounts should be available at all A.G.M.s of those clubs for public scrutiny.
Unless the suggestion is that clubs are pepared to submit fraudulent accounts by hiding payments to players in other sections of outgoing payments, the playing budget should be clear.
Is anyone serving on a clubs committee ( they are responsible for seeing that the club is  kept within the laws of the land ) likely to risk a criminal record and even prison,to put money in to someone else,s pocket should they be investigated by H.R.M.C. ?
It would not be the first time it has happened.

 

There are always ways and means though of hiding "expense" payments away. For example, being paid directly by sponsors and supporters not the clubs. Have also heard of players being found jobs at backers businesses.

Remember my Dad (who was a traffic policeman back in the eighties) seeing former West Indies test cricketer Eldine Baptiste cleaning cars outside a showroom in West Cornwall. This was obviously owned by the individual sponsoring him as the professional at a club down that way for the summer.

[Marcus Grose]

Phil Vickery (England rfc prop) was reputed to be on £90 a game when he was playing for Redruth Colts.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

38 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

There are always ways and means though of hiding "expense" payments away. For example, being paid directly by sponsors and supporters not the clubs. Have also heard of players being found jobs at backers businesses.

Remember my Dad (who was a traffic policeman back in the eighties) seeing former West Indies test cricketer Eldine Baptiste cleaning cars outside a showroom in West Cornwall. This was obviously owned by the individual sponsoring him as the professional at a club down that way for the summer.

And he told me he could earn more where he was playing than in county cricket! 

Really nice fella too.

[We Two]

1 hour ago, Way Of The Park said:

There are always ways and means though of hiding "expense" payments away. For example, being paid directly by sponsors and supporters not the clubs. Have also heard of players being found jobs at backers businesses.

As long as their sponsors income is declared to H.R.M.C. that's fine and doesn't involve clubs or their committees.
If there is a contribution from the club it should be included in their certified accounts as is the case with any backer, in their certified accounts.
State pensions are taxed if a pensioner is receiving over a certain amount per annum, any income over and above a footballers weekly taxable wage is also taxable.
Before BREXIT took over the headlines, the government promised they were going to rigorously pursue the black economy which was costing the country billions in unpaid tax.
That has probably gone down the proverbial shoot to oblivion, and sponsors may be willing to unwittingly risk being an accessory to tax evasion.
Payments to staff are also taxable.
Any accounts of a public body such as a football club are open to public scrutiny at an A.G.M. when the treasurer should be available to answer any queries.
If it matters that much to an individual to know where club funds are spent, as Mr Punch would say "that's the way to do it " no one is going to post their accounts on here !

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

A football club a public body...don't think so.

[We Two]

51 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

A football club a public body...don't think so.

Football clubs are supported by the public, and are governed by the F.A. which is a public ltd body and whose rules state annual accounts must be lodged with the appropiate bodies in the system. Those accounts are then available to the public as they are at any A.G.M.
 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

3 hours ago, We Two said:

Football clubs are supported by the public, and are governed by the F.A. which is a public ltd body and whose rules state annual accounts must be lodged with the appropiate bodies in the system. Those accounts are then available to the public as they are at any A.G.M.
 

Nope, do not agree with that.

We are a members club, you cannot come into the club unless you are a member or are invited.

It would be a criminal offence if we allow non members or those not signed in by a member  to enter the club. 

On match days players and officials, plus spectators are signed in enbloc to allow entry, but you would not gain entry at an AGM.

It is part of our constitution which goes before the courts for ratification...and the same for all others I would imagine.

Football clubs are not public bodies.

Yes. Once accounts are lodged elsewhere you maybe allowed to scrutinise them, although at our level I would think there would be opposition from the establishment. 

[We Two]

13 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

but you would not gain entry at an AGM.

Yes much of what you say is correct older, but if you google the question ref attendance at an A.G.M. you will find the following:- quote " Anyone can attend an A.G.M. but are not entitled to vote or ask questions " unquote.
We have attended local football club A.G.M.s where on entry to the clubhouse a certified copy of the previous 12 months financial affairs are set out on the seats for all attending to scrutinise them, and in one case at least they can be taken with you when you leave.
Anyone who is not a member can prior to the meeting starting ask a member to ask a question on their behalf.
In the interest of transparency surely this is the way to go unless you have something to hide from your paying customers, and we all know what rumours arise when decisions are taken behind closed doors with public access denied.
As you say the accounts can be scrutinised elsewhere, so why would a club leave themselves open to damaging rumours?.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

2 minutes ago, We Two said:

Yes much of what you say is correct older, but if you google the question ref attendance at an A.G.M. you will find the following:- quote " Anyone can attend an A.G.M. but are not entitled to vote or ask questions " unquote.
We have attended local football club A.G.M.s where on entry to the clubhouse a certified copy of the previous 12 months financial affairs are set out on the seats for all attending to scrutinise them, and in one case at least they can be taken with you when you leave.
Anyone who is not a member can prior to the meeting starting ask a member to ask a question on their behalf.
In the interest of transparency surely this is the way to go unless you have something to hide from your paying customers, and we all know what rumours arise when decisions are taken behind closed doors with public access denied.
As you say the accounts can be scrutinised elsewhere, so why would a club leave themselves open to damaging rumours?.

Google is not always right. 

As a members club, like most others you would not get in.

Transparency in football...yer havin a larf. 

[We Two]

Transparancy for those who use it breeds trust in what a club is doing, avoiding the backbiting and unpleasantries seen on this forum at times.
It also encourages people to offer their help to a club if they know what makes it tick.
Why should a club supporter be denied the opportunity to know exactly how his/her club operates and spends the money he/she puts in the coffers? doesn't make sense.
It's often been said on the forum that there is a lack of interest in football admin (work) within clubs today,  no wonder if people who are happy to help are not made aware of how the club is operating.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

13 minutes ago, We Two said:

Transparancy for those who use it breeds trust in what a club is doing, avoiding the backbiting and unpleasantries seen on this forum at times.
It also encourages people to offer their help to a club if they know what makes it tick.
Why should a club supporter be denied the opportunity to know exactly how his/her club operates and spends the money he/she puts in the coffers? doesn't make sense.
It's often been said on the forum that there is a lack of interest in football admin (work) within clubs today,  no wonder if people who are happy to help are not made aware of how the club is operating.

Simple answer...join the club as a member or sit on the committee even.

[We Two]

13 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Simple answer...join the club as a member or sit on the committee even.

Not everybody wants that commitment either to spend money on membership , or to serve on a committee, just happy to turn up when asked to help.
Just don't really see the benefits of not being transparent in the running of a club if there is nothing to hide.
Lets just beg to differ on this subject Older, before we are banned for boring all the others.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, We Two said:

Not everybody wants that commitment either to spend money on membership , or to serve on a committee, just happy to turn up when asked to help.
Just don't really see the benefits of not being transparent in the running of a club if there is nothing to hide.
Lets just beg to differ on this subject Older, before we are banned for boring all the others.

I don't think we have a difference,  just a different way of looking at it. 

Anyways if your down our way sometime I'll sign you in and let you two's buy me a pint 👍

[Bruegel the Elder]

3 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

I don't think we have a difference,  just a different way of looking at it. 

Anyways if your down our way sometime I'll sign you in and let you two's buy me a pint 👍

Or two, you can’t be accused of sowing dissent in the We Two camp🍻❗️

[RAPPO]

On 03/02/2019 at 12:39, Mike Odgers said:

The Stats page from the Falmouth v Launceston programme

Nice to be 3rd in the list behind those two club legends Mike, especially Neil, one of my biggest influences in football who helped me so much, what a player and bloke!! Remember that semi final v Launceston at Blazey Mike, nice dipping volley past Nutey to put us 1-0 up and it all went downhill from there! 😦 Banged my head on the goal post that day as well, had a lovely shiner! Remember us chasing the game in extra time and Spencer scored their 3rd from the halfway line! Good Launceston side that was, if you got time Mike what were the line ups that day mate? Like seeing those names from the past again!! 👍⚽️

[Mike Odgers]

On 09/02/2019 at 10:38, RAPPO said:

Nice to be 3rd in the list behind those two club legends Mike, especially Neil, one of my biggest influences in football who helped me so much, what a player and bloke!! Remember that semi final v Launceston at Blazey Mike, nice dipping volley past Nutey to put us 1-0 up and it all went downhill from there! 😦 Banged my head on the goal post that day as well, had a lovely shiner! Remember us chasing the game in extra time and Spencer scored their 3rd from the halfway line! Good Launceston side that was, if you got time Mike what were the line ups that day mate? Like seeing those names from the past again!! 👍⚽️

 

[RAPPO]

Thanks Mike, couple of strong teams there mate. 👍⚽️