Two footed airbourne challenges

[Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD]

Everyone in the football world is aware of how dangerous such tackles can be, which is why they were outlawed. We have seen recently, refs clamping down on players commiting these potential leg breakers by brandishing red cards all over the place and quite rightly so.

Yesterday at Millbrook, one home player decided to test Gary Davis (ref from just down the road at Torpoint) and see if the ruling had filtered down to Cornwall. The answer was clear, the ref gave just a yellow card citing that as the offender had not connected with the Newquay player (more by luck than judgement) just a yellow would be issued. had the Newquay player not jumped out of the way, then Derriford would have had an extra patient to attend to.

Millbrook won the game 1-0 and there were few chances at either end due to the farmers field they were playing on. It is possible that the West of England ploughing team had been practising on it before the match and then allowed the local hunt to use it before football was attempted. I'm not sure of the 'official' attendance but there were 16 home fans and 11 from Newquay that I counted (other Newquay fans were spotted at Fraddon services heading for Argyle v Hull and probably made the right choice)

Also spotted at the same services were the Tavistock team having their pre-match lunch of Big Mac and Fries before clambering aboard the team coach...... yes a coach, a big 52 seater, they must have some money in the Premier division. Newquay travelled in the minibus bought from the ladies, would have been nice if it had been donated but that is the way of it with so called big clubs holding the purse strings.

Launceston away in the 3rd round of the Cup next saturday, lets hope the pitch is not just mud painted green and that the 3 officials have a good game.

[r_and_l]

wouldnt be the same millbroke player that broke craig browns leg with a "accidental no malice meant" knee high two footed challenge would it?????

[PAciFiC]

Judge - the important factor in this is that Gary Davis was the referee. You of all people should know better, the guy simply hasn't got a clue. Enough said!

I see a Parkway player got a straight red for the same offence and whether the Millbrook player made contact or not, it's still a two footed challenge.

[Andy Yeatman]

Judge - I don't think many Millbrook supporters would have been surprised if that one got a red card but I've seen other similar tackles punished only by a yellow. Also agree that the pitch made any real football difficult. Still reckon it was the right result though with Millbrook missing one or two chances in the first half that should have been buried and having a reasonable penalty shout turned down; the Newquay going really close near the end - how that ball came back off the woodwork straight to the Millbrook 'keeper I still don't know.

R&L

For the record - no it wasn't the same player.

Also, my understanding is that you weren't at the Goonhavern v Millbrook game; neither was I. In which case I can't see how you can continue to make such definitive statements about the tackle in which Craig was so badly injured.

I have heard many different opinions about the incident - all of them from people that were at the game - and the opinions obviously differ depending on which team those people are associated with.

From all those opinions, you are the only one that continues to suggest it was knee high and two footed and, sneeringly by adding quote marks to your posting, suggest that it was malicious.

I've said before that the Millbrook player involved just isn't like that so I don't believe you do yourself any credit by continuing these accusations when, if I'm correct, you weren't even there.

Does anyone know how Craig is getting on - I understand he was allowed back home at Christmas?

[Guest]

Interesting points made by the judge. For a start I think there were at least four Newquay supporters at the game or did you include the bench. Were you the one with the long hair. or the rotund one with the scarf. Secondly yes the Mill is not the best of pitches but it was a much better surface than when Millbrook played on Boxing Day against Vospers OV. But come on a flat pitch which had heavy overnight rain on it compared to the Mount Wise ski slope which is one of the worst playing surfaces in the county and you are complaining about Millbrook.

As far as the tackle is concerned, yes it was rash and possibly warrented a yellow card. The referee I felt did quite well although he had to put up with a baying Newquay bench who questioned every decision. As far as him coming from Torpoint what the hell has that got to do with it. Both teams tried their best in diffuclt conditions. It was a cracking goal that won Millbrook the game and they were very unfortunate not to have been awarded a penalty. Thank the Torpoint ref for not giving Millbrook that one. And yes that was an amazing piece of bad luck when the ball hit the woodwork and went straight to the goalkeeper. But I always thought that a football frame is 8 yards by 8 feet. no extra inches to allow the ball to enter the net.

I have often enjoyed your sometime outrageous remarks about matches involving Newquay. I can now understand where you are coming from. Enjoy your tour of Cornwall.

[Richard Rundle]

wouldnt be the same millbroke player that broke craig browns leg with a "accidental no malice meant" knee high two footed challenge would it?????

Were you at the Goonhavern v Millbrook game?

I ask because this is the second time you have made this accusation about this tackle being two footed. I was there, and there was no way in the world that the tackle (although an ugly, clumsy challenge), was two footed. And, as far as I can recall, no Goonhavern player/official was shouting it about it being two footed at the time.

--

Richard

[Graham Hill]

Any player who decides that a two footed air-borne tackle/attack is the best way to win the ball back has already got a problem. It makes me feel sick and cringe when i see replay's on the telly of two footers where the receiving players leg starts to bend with the challenge and comes out un hurt(amazing to think sometimes!).

I think its an absoulote disgrace and would like to see lengthy bans for this tackle, however it has to be said sometimes you can have a clumsey moment in which you find yourself in that situation with no malicious intent.

Accidental or deliberate?, the referee has to view this as a seriously dangerous tackle and has no option to send the player off. I feel abit sorry for ref's who have to be seen as being consistant in the situation.

Luckly enough there have been no games in which i have taken part where i have seen this tackle so far.

[Paparazzi]

Interesting points made by the judge.

Were you the one with the long hair. or the rotund one with the scarf.

love that word! :lol:

[Guest Peppermint]

I was at the Millbrook/Newquay match and would take issue with some of The Judge's and ECPL comments.

Firstly well done to Millbrook for actually getting the game played and the conditions were not condusive for flowing football but that is the fault of our awful weather. At this time of the year we all have to expect heavy pitches somtimes.

Secondly regarding the Mount Wise pitch - I suggest ECPL has not visited it lately because talk about give a dog a bad name and it will stick - it is no longer the worst surface in the league by a long way although obviously still needs improving.

ECPL states the baying visitors dugout - the home dugout was just as bad and if you go to any match in the Peninsula League or League match you always get this. Some of the managers in the Peninsula Premier League are far worse!

I think Gary Davis is one of the better officials and it is not easy in slippery conditions to referee and the only point I would like to make is about the dreadful over the top two footed lunge by a Millbrook player that was a disgrace and has no part in football. After all these players have to go to work on Mondays and this sort of assault should be punished with a red card and this sort of dangerous play has no part in any form of football.

When things are not going for you then everything seems to be against you and another sadly depleted Newquay squad with only one sub. was very unlucky when Liam Dingle's header bounced back into the grateful keeper's arms.

Let's hope for Newquay's Andy Dingle's sake that he will have a bigger squad to select from next Saturday when they visit Launceston in the Senior Cup.

[Gareth]

Having being on the receiving end of a broken leg challenge I can do nothing but support the need for these challenges to be stamped out (pardon the pun) There should be no place for such assaults and the sooner this is addressed in football then it can only benefit the game and eradicate these hooligans who call themselves footballers.

[Guest]

I think it is all about angles and perceptions. The Millbrook lad did make a lunge but I don't think there was any intent at all and it is obvious the opposing side will make an issue of it. Mistimed yes, but malicious I dont think so. Any referee has to take into account the conditions and surface but again it is all about opinions. Don't forget a lot of players are done by skill and once you start a challenge on that type of surface you just cannot put the brakes on. I thought both sides tried their best but it was not to be As far as Mount Wise is concerned I haven't managed to get there this season, but it is still a shocking slope.

[Guest Ronin]

compared to the Mount Wise ski slope which is one of the worst playing surfaces in the county

The donkeys don't have any complaints about it in the Summer :D

[cornishteddyboy]

Funny thing about these 2 footed tackles everyone seems to be going about. Are they new or flavour of the month at the moment due to the TV. In every game there are these sorts of challenges and always have been.

Some of us older posters might remember a big fuss in the 1980's when players would go into a sliding challenge with their top leg just above the ball catching their opponent. They went on and on about it but it died down (in fact it's this 2 footed challenge they're going on about really).

What will be the next Tv crusade. No spitting, drinks during the match? It's a contact sport. We have to get rid of unsportsman like behaviour.

No what needs to be stamped out is the continuous barracking of the officials and the deliberate holding up of a free kick to get a defensive advantage. Ref blows for a free kick and its 1-2 mins before the kick is taken because there's a player over the ball, the wall won't go back or is not lined up right, etc. The refs who allow this are giving the defending team an advantage when it's in the wrong.

People moan about swearing. Stamp it out. Ref's to start red carding players no excuses. Doesn't matter what level. It'll stop in no time if you have to pay out £35 every time you open your mouth on the pitch. Show some respect to your clubmates, the officials and supporters.

[Guest]

It used to be called ungentlemanly conduct. Having somenone standing in front of the ball to delay a free kick as a player is very annoying, so a referee has the means to stop that by giving the player a caution. It is all about a player taking responsibility for his own actions.

It's the same when every man and his dog gets involved in an altercation between two other players. Again the referee has the means in which to deal with it. Too many players say I was there to stop the problem when in fact their minds switch back to a saturday night ruck in which all the little boys get involved. When this happens the referee should stand back with his assistant jot down the numbers of the players involved. When it calms down he calls them over like spoilt little boys and lines them up before cautioning them all and if that means players get a second yellow, which becomes a red then so be it.

The abuse from so called fans, the bench and the players must drive referees and their assistants nuts. But is it always the referees fault. It is not what is said thats the problem when the overwhelming majority of people use swearing in their normal day speak then I see no problem in a player disputing something with a swear word The problem is that it is the ugly aggression nowadays in wihich they do it. Is it really that bad when a plyer gets called up for something he disagrees with and says F*** off ref that is a human reaction, the difference is how he says it.

Continual verbal abuse from the bench is astonishing these days. How thick can people be when the tirade continues long after the incident. Again the referee has the solution and that is to order that person away from the touchline or even out of the ground. Referees do have a role to play but for whatever reason are reluctant to carry out the letter of the law. Of course they want to keep 22 players on the field but they also don't help themselves if they don't deal with the problem. Or is this because of the response form a higher authority.

Another thing is why oh why do we have clubs giving marks out of 10 is it about the referees performance. Cant an independent person be called up to do that. At least they will have an unbiased view. unfortunately clubs may well remember an incident which they may well be right about not going their way but does it mean they have to mark the official down.

The thread started with what one person viewed as a very dangerous tackle. And yes two footed tackles should be outlawed as being dangerous. But even that is open to interpretation. One persons view of an incident can be different from another who has seen it from a different angle. And likewise for a referee. We have all seen players launch themselves into a tackle without making contact with anything. On one side it likes like a dangerous assualt on a player but when yo see it from a different angle it is just an attempt at putting off the other player because the lunge is 2 or 3 feet from a player being tackled. Everyone has a different view of an incident we all say. Unfortunately at our level we cant instantly see a replay of the action.

[Guest Peppermint]

I was not for one moment saying that the Millbrook player made the two footed challenge deliberately but if it happens I think that should be the end of that particular game for the player concerned. I appreciate that slippery surfaces do make it difficult for players and referees. On Saturday when the tackle was made the matter was made far worse by players from both sides converging from all over the pitch to confrant the referee and other players.

One last point about Mount Wise - some people seem to think it is like the South side of the Eiger but there is far worse slopes on Cornish and Devon football pitches. Credit to the Groundsman over the last twelve months that the pitch is now in reasonable condition and improving.

Hopefully when you next visit Mount Wise ECPL we can meet and I can buy you a drink!!!

The berating of referees goes on right through football from the top down and until the authorities start giving managers lenghty touchline bans and worse it will continue. I have to repeat, as someone who has watched matches from the Western League, Peninsula Premier and Division 1 West this season, the Premier Managers are probably worse on the whole than the rest. I won't name names because I might well be visiting some of the clubs later in the season.

[Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD]

Nice to see that those who have commented, all seem to agree that the 2 footed challenge has no place in the modern game at whatever level. Lets hope that refs will have the decency to give a red where the laws of the game dictate such action is required.

ECPL wrote - "Interesting points made by the judge. For a start I think there were at least four Newquay supporters at the game or did you include the bench. Were you the one with the long hair. or the rotund one with the scarf."

I wish to correct the inaccuracy of my fan count, 15 Millbrook fans, 1 ECPL and 11 Newquay fans (the Newquay fans line up, Andrew the Clown, Dave the Long Hair, Rotund Judge, Graham, Roy, Don, Mr & Mrs Chelsea with the boy Jason, Paddys Dad, Lovely lady with red/white scarf - apologies if I have missed anyone !)

Have just noticed on the wonderful Tony Kempster website, the attendance was given as 23, that obviously dosn't include the 4 free passes I suppose. Does anyone know the actual criteria for calculating the official attendance in the SWPL ?

Back on the road this saturday with a visit to the Spiders Web at Launcestion (yes I know I owe you a pint) Looks like we will be short on numbers again as Mr & Mrs Chelsea are off the the Bridge, not sure where Argyle are and actually don't care, the travelling fans are looking forward to a good game at Pennygilliam.

[Ian Roberts]

Having had my game called off at Willand this weekend, I went to see my son play at Newquay.

I was pleasantly surprised just how good the pitch was looking and how it held up with the conditions. For the last few seasons whenever I have officated at Newquay, and I've always enjoyed my visits to Newquay other than for the poor shower, yes there have been problems with the pitch, in particular, the tractor wheel marks and stones.

But on Saturday there was no evidence of this at all.

I'm told the club now has a new groundsman and it would appear he is doing a fine job.

As others have written, there are far worst pitches in the County and I certainly wouldn't describe Newquay's as a ski slope.

[Guest Peppermint]

Thanks Ian - it is nice to have an independent view about Mount Wise. I had stated in an earlier posting that unfortunately when a pitch starts to have a bad name it tends to stick without justification even when the surface improves. Some of the footballers who play on the pitch have told me that it has certainly improved.

There is a new groundsman now and he and the previous one have done an excellent job in bringing about the improvements.

The other point about the slope again is always mentioned but as Ian states there are far worse than Mount Wise.

[Spider]

I am looking forward to that pint Judge!!

P.s. Bring your wellies!!

[Guest Peppermint]

Forget the tackle by the Millbrook player I witnessed a far worse one by Joe Broad at the Truro/Portleven match on Wednesday. He did receive a red card for that dreadful challenge that could have landed the unfortunate Porthleven player in hospital. With the home side leading 3-0 was there really any need for what was really an assault.

Could not understand Gosling running to argue about the challenge when most fair minded spectators including home supporters all agreed that it was dangerous, unnecessary and deserved the punishment meted out by the referee.

[tms no9]

you lot want to watch a couple of mining 3 games then you will see what a dirty lunge or tackle is.that joe broad tackle was just an average tackle in good old div 3

[Guest Peppermint]

Words fail me - are we supposed to condone this ugly side of football. There was no excuse for this sort of assault and don't forget the Porthleven player who was on the receiving end has a job of work to go to the next day. Luckily he was not as badly hurt as he could have been.

Truro City leading comfortably and that was not necessary and no fair minded spectator can possibly state that this is acceptable. This is not any anti Truro posting but just against this sort of thuggery.

[Guest el nino]

Who was the porthleven player that had the tackle made on him?

[Guest Urban Spaceman]

millbrook had 2 players sent off for 2 footed tackles against porthleven. one of them was on steve brewer who was also on the end of one against truro

[r_and_l]

Over to you andy seems quite a few of your players like the paticular challenge in question

[Guest Gouldie]

You wont let it drop will you r and l? The game against Porthleven was a complete farce and should never have been played. The first red card was for a bad tackle although it was made to look awful by the pitch. The 2nd red card was for a shoulder barge! You can't even begin to try and work that decision out. The referee was awful. What was gearing up to be a really good game was lost on the referee. You have to look at each decision on it's own.

On a seperate note in terms of the game being played does anyone know the rules about pitch quality i.e the bounce of the ball. I have no knowledge of this but guess it is supposed to bounce and not just stick in a puddle!!! This was before the game started and before the torrential downpour.

[Andy Yeatman]

R and L

Referee chose to give two red cards; he's got the final decision so I'm not going to argue about them but it was another game you weren't at. Neither were two footed tackles as reported - Gouldie is nearer the mark.

There was also another red card (Port goalie deliberate handball outside his box but he was very unlucky) and twelve yellows. Despite that, and I'm sure most Port supporters will agree, it just wasn't a dirty game apart from the mud.