Trelawny League - Tuesday Aug 14th 2018

[Danielburt8]

Every case?. You sure of that?. We all know what goes on in local football and if you think otherwise you are very deluded. The fa do the best they can but I’m afraid a lot slips through the net. It’s hard to patrol every game every week 

[cornishteddyboy]

One problem we discussed at the Combo Committee meeting. Players being signed on the day are not making it onto the FGS until they are added by their new clubs so the uploaded team sheets are showing say 9 players starting when in reality they started with 11. We have noticed things like 9 starters, 3 subs who are all used. It confuses as you would think 11 players plus only one sub!

It will sort itself out once teams get all players on the system (we hope).

[Local league fan]

Why is Lewis Ellis name on the team sheet then?

I believe it was Joshua kelly who played why was his name not on the team sheet. Very fishy. Cheating at this stage of the season shouldn’t go unpunished.

[bighairydave]

1 hour ago, Danielburt8 said:

Every case?. You sure of that?. We all know what goes on in local football and if you think otherwise you are very deluded. The fa do the best they can but I’m afraid a lot slips through the net. It’s hard to patrol every game every week 

Every case brought to their attention was dealt with. They can’t deal with things on hearsay without proof.

[Local league fan]

It’s hardly hear say, Lewis Ellis did not play....fact! On yet he was on the team sheet.???? Surely the referee(penryn boy) can confirm this???

[patch]

Josh kelly and Lewis Ellis are both signed on for penryn 

[Local league fan]

Yes I am not doubting that it clearly states that Lewis Ellis played and he didn’t. Therefore 3 points should be awarded to penwith. Penryn fined and we can all move on from this fishy situation. This shouldn’t be swept under the rug.

[bighairydave]

1 hour ago, Local league fan said:

It’s hardly hear say, Lewis Ellis did not play....fact! On yet he was on the team sheet.???? Surely the referee(penryn boy) can confirm this???

I haven’t said this is hearsay. The league are sorting and will be giving a statement on Monday has been said. 

 

Im talking about examples from last season.

[patch]

The correct team is now on the full time site. Lewis Ellis isn’t named 

[number 6]

Just now, patch said:

The correct team is now on the full time site. Lewis Ellis isn’t named 

Bit weird now it’s been pointed out that his name has disappeared ?

[Roy D]

4 minutes ago, number 6 said:

Bit weird now it’s been pointed out that his name has disappeared ?

I spoke to one of the Penryn boys & he said Lewis Ellis was 100% not named on the team sheet. So was obviously an admin error .

[Dave Bartlam]

Let's put this one to bed...

Firstly, there's has been nothing said by the league on any of this so Mr SiJames has struck again with his nonsense. This is the first I have heard on any of this.

Secondly, all of Penryns players, including the six registered before the game were done so in accordance with Trelawny league Rule 18. The ruling saying you could only register three before a game is an old rule which has since been updated.

Unfortunately with the bedding in of the system, Full Time is not taking some of the information over from Whole Game, hence why there was only 8 players listed in the starting line up. There was also an issue with some of the information on that - this issue has been raised to the Technology department at the FA by yours truly and will be sorted as soon as they find a fix.

For the Eagle Eyed social media followers out there, you will see that this issue has been voiced on our Facebook page to notify clubs of a problem.

Let's also look at another fact... It's not always the managers or those present at the game that put the teamsheets onto full Time. Sometimes it's a secretary or the person that is good with computers who doesn't visit the games. So, mistakes will sometimes be made as in this case with Mr Ellis.

Mr James, whilst I appreciate you making a statement on here on behalf of the League, may I ask that you actually leave it to us to disclose the facts Thank you for your input though, it is greatly appreciated.

With me being the Registration Secretary who deals with all of this, I would expect any issues to cross my desk. Nothing about an ineligible player or an incorrect teamsheet has landed on said desk - if it had, it would be looked at and dealt with - and not spoken about on social media!

[Mangle]

54 minutes ago, Roy D said:

I spoke to one of the Penryn boys & he said Lewis Ellis was 100% not named on the team sheet. So was obviously an admin error .

I was speaking to Tony Blair about it, and he said there were definately Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. 

[St Darren]

So how does the system all work? Can you upload a team list and then say “ooops I made a mistake” and then change it?

[Danielburt8]

44 minutes ago, St Darren said:

So how does the system all work? Can you upload a team list and then say “ooops I made a mistake” and then change it?

Depends which team you are mate! ?.

We had a genuine misunderstanding last year and got docked 3 points. I suppose we could all take advantage of the new system coming in and having these misunderstandings ?

[patch]

[bighairydave]

18 minutes ago, Danielburt8 said:

Depends which team you are mate! ?.

We had a genuine misunderstanding last year and got docked 3 points. I suppose we could all take advantage of the new system coming in and having these misunderstandings ?

Surely you guys have a copy of the team sheet from the opponents so can check anyway?

[Danielburt8]

37 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

Surely you guys have a copy of the team sheet from the opponents so can check anyway?

As we have had to do over many seasons we just have to take it and go again. If teams need to cheat and I did say IF we take it as a big compliment it wouldn’t of been the first time it’s happened. We look forward to hosting penryn and seeing all the same faces ??. 

[bighairydave]

23 minutes ago, Danielburt8 said:

As we have had to do over many seasons we just have to take it and go again. If teams need to cheat and I did say IF we take it as a big compliment it wouldn’t of been the first time it’s happened. We look forward to hosting penryn and seeing all the same faces ??. 

So is that a yes or no?

[Danielburt8]

10 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

So is that a yes or no?

Yes the player in question is on it 

[bighairydave]

8 minutes ago, Danielburt8 said:

Yes the player in question is on it 

So that needs to be sent through the correct channels to the league to sort out.

[Danielburt8]

Someone involved with the fa has commented above basically saying there in no chance. Human error playing a big part. Pointless mate just need to get on with it 

[Dave Bartlam]

2 hours ago, Danielburt8 said:

Depends which team you are mate! ?.

We had a genuine misunderstanding last year and got docked 3 points. I suppose we could all take advantage of the new system coming in and having these misunderstandings ?

Dan, 

I remember this well because I was in the middle of the Arabian Gulf talking to your secretary. TJ was suspended and played in a game. It was very unfortunate that it happened but that doesn't take away the fact that it did. Obviously we had to deal with that in accordance with our rules. Trust me when I say I get absolutely no enjoyment out of that at all. A small lapse in concentration was all it took - I'll let it be known now though - administratively, Penwith Exiles are up there as one of the best in the league. It is always a pleasure dealing with Neil when he contacts me, which is quite regular during the season. He takes great care with his team selection and I was gutted for him on this instance that you talk about.

 

With regards to the Penryn game that's been spoken about, if there has been a breach of ruling, please do get in touch with me (via your Secretary please) with any proof (teamsheet) that you have and I will look into it for you. But like Exiles, Penryn are also good with their admin so I would like to think this is something that's been blown out of proportion.

Many congratulations to you and your other half by the way

2 hours ago, St Darren said:

So how does the system all work? Can you upload a team list and then say “ooops I made a mistake” and then change it?

Yes you can. Teamsheets have to be in three days after a game (excluding Sundays). I won't look at them until the second day - and that's only to warn teams if they are yet to submit it (because I'm a nice guy, you see). On that third day, I will go in and look at the teamsheets and lock the ones that I am happy with - so that they can not be changed or tweaked. 

Trust me when I say that the teamsheets do get scrutinised. And any "pickup" is looked into. 

If Penwith feel that a rule has been breached, it's important that the clubs go through the correct channels and contact myself (if it relates to my role) via their club Secretary's. I won't look into things based on forum chatter.

[bighairydave]

13 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Dan, 

I remember this well because I was in the middle of the Arabian Gulf talking to your secretary. TJ was suspended and played in a game. It was very unfortunate that it happened but that doesn't take away the fact that it did. Obviously we had to deal with that in accordance with our rules. Trust me when I say I get absolutely no enjoyment out of that at all. A small lapse in concentration was all it took - I'll let it be known now though - administratively, Penwith Exiles are up there as one of the best in the league. It is always a pleasure dealing with Neil when he contacts me, which is quite regular during the season. He takes great care with his team selection and I was gutted for him on this instance that you talk about.

 

With regards to the Penryn game that's been spoken about, if there has been a breach of ruling, please do get in touch with me (via your Secretary please) with any proof (teamsheet) that you have and I will look into it for you. But like Exiles, Penryn are also good with their admin so I would like to think this is something that's been blown out of proportion.

Many congratulations to you and your other half by the way

Yes you can. Teamsheets have to be in three days after a game (excluding Sundays). I won't look at them until the second day - and that's only to warn teams if they are yet to submit it (because I'm a nice guy, you see). On that third day, I will go in and look at the teamsheets and lock the ones that I am happy with - so that they can not be changed or tweaked. 

Trust me when I say that the teamsheets do get scrutinised. And any "pickup" is looked into. 

If Penwith feel that a rule has been breached, it's important that the clubs go through the correct channels and contact myself (if it relates to my role) via their club Secretary's. I won't look into things based on forum chatter.

 

23 minutes ago, Danielburt8 said:

Someone involved with the fa has commented above basically saying there in no chance. Human error playing a big part. Pointless mate just need to get on with it 

So get the team sheet that has their person in question on which is different to the team on full-time through Neil.

[Danielburt8]

12 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Dan, 

I remember this well because I was in the middle of the Arabian Gulf talking to your secretary. TJ was suspended and played in a game. It was very unfortunate that it happened but that doesn't take away the fact that it did. Obviously we had to deal with that in accordance with our rules. Trust me when I say I get absolutely no enjoyment out of that at all. A small lapse in concentration was all it took - I'll let it be known now though - administratively, Penwith Exiles are up there as one of the best in the league. It is always a pleasure dealing with Neil when he contacts me, which is quite regular during the season. He takes great care with his team selection and I was gutted for him on this instance that you talk about.

 

With regards to the Penryn game that's been spoken about, if there has been a breach of ruling, please do get in touch with me (via your Secretary please) with any proof (teamsheet) that you have and I will look into it for you. But like Exiles, Penryn are also good with their admin so I would like to think this is something that's been blown out of proportion.

Many congratulations to you and your other half by the way

Yes you can. Teamsheets have to be in three days after a game (excluding Sundays). I won't look at them until the second day - and that's only to warn teams if they are yet to submit it (because I'm a nice guy, you see). On that third day, I will go in and look at the teamsheets and lock the ones that I am happy with - so that they can not be changed or tweaked. 

Trust me when I say that the teamsheets do get scrutinised. And any "pickup" is looked into. 

If Penwith feel that a rule has been breached, it's important that the clubs go through the correct channels and contact myself (if it relates to my role) via their club Secretary's. I won't look into things based on forum chatter.

Appreciate the words Dave, as said before we will take it and go again we don’t expect anything to change regarding points ect but you possibly could hear from exiles ????

[Dave Bartlam]

2 minutes ago, Danielburt8 said:

Appreciate the words Dave, as said before we will take it and go again we don’t expect anything to change regarding points ect but you possibly could hear from exiles ????

No problem mate. Good result today. Keep up the good work 

[Fanfare]

7 hours ago, Local league fan said:

Yes I am not doubting that it clearly states that Lewis Ellis played and he didn’t. Therefore 3 points should be awarded to penwith. Penryn fined and we can all move on from this fishy situation. This shouldn’t be swept under the rug.

If it was an ineligible player, Penryn would lose three points but Penwith wouldn't get any points.

[Dave Bartlam]

3 minutes ago, Fanfare said:

If it was an ineligible player, Penryn would lose three points but Penwith wouldn't get any points.

Incorrect. Penryn would lose the three points gained, be charged iaw Trelawny Rule 18 and the game awarded to Penwith (three points). The scoreline would still stand.

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, Danielburt8 said:

Someone involved with the fa has commented above basically saying there in no chance. Human error playing a big part. Pointless mate just need to get on with it 

I never quite know why the FA will get involved this soon, surely the league will first check things out? I would certainly get that team sheet you have into the legue to have a look at asap.

[Fanfare]

4 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Incorrect. Penryn would lose the three points gained, be charged iaw Trelawny Rule 18 and the game awarded to Penwith (three points). The scoreline would still stand.

Oops!

[Local league fan]

Mr Burt you need to get that team sheet over so this can be put to bed. I do agree exciles seemed to get treated differently. Also who edits the team sheet to the full time site??? Why did it get changed yesterday??? Also who does the referee allocations??? Giving it to a person who played for penryn for many years and won the league on several occasions with them. 

[Pitty]

19 minutes ago, Local league fan said:

Mr Burt you need to get that team sheet over so this can be put to bed. I do agree exciles seemed to get treated differently. Also who edits the team sheet to the full time site??? Why did it get changed yesterday??? Also who does the referee allocations??? Giving it to a person who played for penryn for many years and won the league on several occasions with them. 

Refs are allocated by the county not the league and you can’t expect the co-ordinater of that list to know if the ref allocated played for a club on a wet and windy January in 1998 ? A ref can request to be allocated to another game if they feel their may be a conflict of interest and i know a couple who have done it over the years if they have a strong connection to a club or may have a close family member playing.

LLF ‘let it go’ mate far to early in the season for all this nonsense ?

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Better call in the FBI, CIA, MI6 to sort this obvious website problem. 

[bighairydave]

2 hours ago, Local league fan said:

Mr Burt you need to get that team sheet over so this can be put to bed. I do agree exciles seemed to get treated differently. Also who edits the team sheet to the full time site??? Why did it get changed yesterday??? Also who does the referee allocations??? Giving it to a person who played for penryn for many years and won the league on several occasions with them. 

Was the referee biased in the game then? The referee I heard had a good game and was observed.

[#truthhurts]

so when other teams mess up a team sheet is that also going to be treated as a mistake??

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Think you will find a few mistakes until the system is bedded in, and everyone understands it. 

I'll give the officials credit up front that they will be fully understanding of any problems that occur initially. 

[John Mead]

If both players were properly registered and eligible to play, the only offence would be an incorrect team sheet: no points awarded or lost and the result stands. As the team sheet has now been corrected within the permitted timescale, I cannot see any issue which needs to be addressed!

[Roy D]

Sounds like sour grapes from the Exiles to me. 

[Danielburt8]

1 hour ago, Roy D said:

Sounds like sour grapes from the Exiles to me. 

Never heard the noise of a sour grape I’m intrigued 

[Mangle]

Surely if a hand written team sheet that was prepared prior to the match, as is still the way in which I believe we are operating, and a players name was listed on this team sheet, but did not play (and someone else did play) then this is not a "mistake", but something other.......what I do not know. You can still register players on the day of the match, so one would assume that should Penryn have wished to play someone who had not signed on, they could have signed him on there and then.

Maybe I am missing something, but if we ignore all the new "on-line" arrangements, which are not fully functional yet, is it a fact that the hand written team sheet completed prior to the match taking place was not correct?

[Dave Bartlam]

21 minutes ago, Mangle said:

Surely if a hand written team sheet that was prepared prior to the match, as is still the way in which I believe we are operating, and a players name was listed on this team sheet, but did not play (and someone else did play) then this is not a "mistake", but something other.......what I do not know. You can still register players on the day of the match, so one would assume that should Penryn have wished to play someone who had not signed on, they could have signed him on there and then.

Maybe I am missing something, but if we ignore all the new "on-line" arrangements, which are not fully functional yet, is it a fact that the hand written team sheet completed prior to the match taking place was not correct?

And that is exactly it. There are ways and means to check these things.

All of Penryns players have been registered properly - I know this because I spent four hours on the day of the fixture with Penryn’s Registration Secretary as he has struggled with the system. Most of his players were registered by that day, however there were a few that couldn’t be as there was no consent (no online consent) so I needed registration forms. These were completed correctly and sent to me after the game.

What I will not do is “investigate” a matter on the hearsay of a few people on social media. If Penwith Exiles want this looking at, they can contact me formally and I will look into it. As our rules state, the teams exchange teamsheets and give a copy to the referee - so it is easy to sort out. 

1 hour ago, John Mead said:

If both players were properly registered and eligible to play, the only offence would be an incorrect team sheet: no points awarded or lost and the result stands. As the team sheet has now been corrected within the permitted timescale, I cannot see any issue which needs to be addressed!

And this sums it up nicely. 

 

What i willI ask you guys is to please refrain from posting stuff like this on the forum when there is no evidence to suggest any wrong doing. If there is evidence such as a screenshot of a teamsheet etc, get your secretary to send it through to me. If I don’t hear from Penwith Exiles, there’s no matter of concern to report, obviously. Which basically means Penryn have had the spotlight put on them needlessly and as a result, have had their reputation tarnished slightly based on hearsay. It’s rather unfair.

Lets do things properly please guys because this thread has been taken over by a situation that did not need public enlightenment.

[Mangle]

Totally agree. This is so simple. If a written team sheet differs from the online team sheet, this could be a simple mistake, especially with the on-going IT issues. The online teamsheet can be quickly corrected, no harm done. However, if there is "evidence" on the written team sheet that a player is recorded as playing, and did not, this represents something other than a simple mistake, and the appropriate action should be taken (if the evidence is presented to the correct authority). So it is in the hands of Penwith Exiles to present any evidence they have to the correct people and let the correct action to be taken, should any be necessary.

As a matter of interest, what happens if a team records a player to have played in a certain game, but he did not actually play, although another correctly registered player at the club did play, but was not shown on the team sheet (assuming no one is banned or ineligible for any other reason)?

[Dave Bartlam]

So long as both both are correctly registered, it would go down as a teamsheet irregularity - if proven guilty (I sound like Judge Rinde)”, it’s a £10 charge to the club. No further penalties would apply.

Quite easy to eradicate though - one copy is given to the referee before the game. If a change is made to the line up between this exchange and kick off, a quick word with the ref and a change can be made. Ruling states that the teamsheets are to be exchanged between the two teams after the game, so again this mistake can be quickly eradicated. I do understand however that many teams exchange teamsheets before the match so sometime this can’t be fixed. 

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Footballs a simple game innit ?????

[Dave Bartlam]

34 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Footballs a simple game innit ?????

In theory, absolutely. It’s the human part that messes things up lol

[#truthhurts]

how many players can a team sign on before the game?

[Roy D]

1 minute ago, #truthhurts said:

how many players can a team sign on before the game?

Let it go buddy. You're clutching at straws. You got battered by a very good penryn side, it's early days, Exiles are a quality side but you will lose more games this year in a tough Trelawney Prem. It'll be a long season if you want to get the rule book out every time you get beat. 

[#truthhurts]

21 minutes ago, Roy D said:

Let it go buddy. You're clutching at straws. You got battered by a very good penryn side, it's early days, Exiles are a quality side but you will lose more games this year in a tough Trelawney Prem. It'll be a long season if you want to get the rule book out every time you get beat. 

its a general question pal! 

battered..... did you watch the game?

[Dave Bartlam]

1 hour ago, #truthhurts said:

how many players can a team sign on before the game?

16. All of the queries that you have can be answered here https://resources.thefa.com/images/ftimages/data/league3983534/18208.docx

Rule 18.

[truthbetold]

I hate to say it but I agree with exciles . They have been penalised in the past for mistakes and so have other less established teams . Penryn know all the tricks and get away with it. I've seen them change fixtures for so called weddings or pitch unplayable so they can bring in ringers mid week. Fa should be consistent as I'm sure mistakes are going to be made and other teams will loose points from it as season goes by.