why is football dying ?

[fenman]

I just wondered what people thought the reasons were for football clubs folding . The reason I ask is that an FA have circulated a questionare  to players and club and league officials  asking why grassroots level football is dying . Unfortunately  ( I believe ) it's a tick the box survey and they've asked the wrong questions . My own belief is that organised football starts too young and many young players suffer playing their parents games for them . Work patterns have changed many young men now work in the retail industry that rolls on for 12 hour days for 7 days a week . Declining discipline standards at home and school have led to more immaturity and a lack of reliability . Televised football , almost to saturation point , has led to many youngsters watching rather than playing the game . I just wondered what other peoples views or reasons were .

[Martin Eddy]

Money is being put into youth and woman's football and rightly so but grassroot mens football clubs are falling by the way side.we desperately need to support mens football at the lowest levels in our case Trelawney and Duchy. Council pitches are by and large in a poor state with the same said for changing facilities. This will only get worse as Council budgets across the land are being cut.if we keep losing mens teams then where will these kids play because children develop at different times so not every boy will play Penisula straight away.We keep being told about the pyramid of football well it's okay if you have a strong foundation but if the next level is weak it will all fall down.

 

 

[stevieb]

I don't think it is just football , rugby and cricket seems in the same boat .  Unless a. Club has either a sugar daddy or mummy or good sponsorship it is hard to develop a clubs infrastructure ,   I was in favour of the pyramid system as there always were teams winning everything season after season  but not moving up but you can still turn down promotion even in this system ,  , take Cornwall a low wages  area or seasonal work ,  all the 3g pitches are attached to colleges  I think if I am right there are only six , and to hire one costs a fortune ,  a few years back you would see the likes of utd , Liverpool bringing teams down to play friendlies , ok maybe a couple of first teamers but some good pros , now with the money awash at the top grass roots football is forgotten. Sport has changed less leisure time , working conditions changed , the rise of skateboarding , surfing ,  games consoles , internet , mobiles , satellite TV ,  I have posted similar about future of football in Cornwall, and us older guys can reminisce about the good old days , jumpers for goal posts , twenty aside  playing for hours but the world has changed  , and sadly so will football in the end only the clubs with resources will survive  , but perhaps players and I mean at local level  would  not set their sights so high on what pay packets they can get  and play for their local teams , pipe dream I know but  something needs to change  , but where to start .

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Too much money, too much TV football, too much kids football - too much bullshyte in it these days.

[stevieb]

23 hours ago, Keith B said:

Spot on stevie. Why is it that the desire and pride to play for your local club, has all but disappeared ? 

Sad days. Pride in your local club is surely where your love of the game and its challenges, begins.

Local teams also have to take some responsibility  , when they pay players to play the club attracts better players with what is on offer , but when the resources dry up the paid players move on to another pay day and the club can't get the locals back so loyalty is a two way street  not aimed at any club  , but you only have to look around at clubs that have had great success in the past , lots are now struggling to attract players and fans . 

 

[fenman]

It's early days I know but I was hoping for a bit more response from younger ex. players or players with young friends who no longer play .

Digressing from the subject a bit BUT !!!!   In spite of my distaste for youth football I watched my grandson play in an under 12 game yesterday . I saw probably the best young player I've seen in probably 30 years . I first noticed the speed and strength of the runs the player made , the accurate thoughtful passes , the throw ins were as good if not better than many adults . Another thing was the powerful  heading , getting above players much taller and getting real power into the headers . The ball control was first class , not too much dribbling . There was absolutely no big ego or arrogance from the player which unusual for someone who stood out amongst other good players .

It wasn't until the second half that I discovered that it was an 11 year old girl  . Before the PC brigade jump on my back and accuse me of  sexism    , nothing could be further from the truth it was a pleasure to watch someone with so much talent boy or girl and I'll be interested to see if her career develops to a higher standard

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Went past my local rugby (urgh) club Sunday, and they have mini rugby there every Sunday......hundreds of kids.

What I noticed, as they were nearest the road, was that the youngest must have been 2ft tall and about 4 years old !!!!

I only mention this as Rugby is struggling for players the same as football, including some games being cancelled due to shortage of players, and some colts teams folded.

Same problems as football it seems, too much - too young.

[ECPL]

Oh w3hat a pessimistic lot.  Cheer up. 

[stevieb]

On 10/01/2017 at 19:29, ECPL said:

Oh w3hat a pessimistic lot.  Cheer up. 

Not pessimist but realists I am afraid,  or shall we  sit back and leave it to die?   This is a countrywide problem not just local , as a football supporter who has done most posts at a club apart from treasurer , or chairman , and been at a club that took up all my spare hours which I loved to see it fold  , when I walked out of the meeting in tears when we could not put a committee together to carry that club on . Personally I don't want to see other clubs to go that way .

[fenman]

My post was  posed  in an effort to get a response from young people who no longer play football  to see why . My own research and statistics show that over past 5 years the number of 16 to 18 year olds playing football is dropping  each season within my own league . Unfortunately  as we have no similar forum within our county , I can't ask this question locally . As a result I thought I might get some sort of response from young players using this forum saying why their friends no longer play OR older players who know why younger people are no longer playing .

The reason most of the forums no longer operate here in Norfolk is that they were closed down due to continually misuse . Fortunately this is not the case with this one . It may seem strange for someone 400 miles away to continually use the forum but I spend quite a bit of time down there with my caravan and also with my family in St. Austell , so it's a second home to me . Plus it's an interesting well monitored site and it's interesting to see the similar problems  and success's experienced by other leagues

[stevieb]

Fenman always your posts are very fair and have a valid point and great you enjoy the Cornish forum ,. Keep posting , and your input from your area proves it is just not Cornish football that is suffering  , and carry on enjoying your holidays in sunny Cornwall .

[fenman]

Thanks stevieb , it'll soon be time to trek down to Mawgan Porth again and watch the sun set over the sea as opposed to rise over the sea as I do here . It's interesting to see peoples opinions about aspects of football at grass roots level particularly the introduction of new rules .One that springs to mind is the rolling sub , Norfolk was one of the counties chosen to trial this idea and some leagues adopted it . There was much discussion about this at various league  management meetings and AGM's  4 or 5 years ago . The FA introduced it as the saviour of grassroots football , more people would be involved in the game and as a result it would flourish , they said . Now I had a very basic education so I couldn't grasp how 11 players plus 3 subs was different to 11 players plus 3 rolling subs  , they both equalled  14  to my simple mind . However the rule was adopted on a trial basis but we are still losing teams county wide at an alarming rate and it is generally accepted that the idea has some merits but isn't the cure for the problem . I'm not sure if the Duchey or Trelawney leagues adopted it in the end but it was interesting to read the forum debate on the pro's and con's of adopting it . At the same time of giving an opinion of something that you have experience of on the forum it has been useful to adopt some ideas from experience in your leagues , for instance the wording of transfer forms covering debts to other clubs . 

[stevieb]

Fenman rolling subs up to five are used in the Combination league and have been for a couple of seasons , also the Trelawney League uses rolling subs . 

[fenman]

Bit of a disappointing response to this post , I was hoping that a few young players would respond by saying why they or their friends etc. no longer play the game .Perhaps it was wishful thinking on my part ! Tonight our county FA will reveal the results of their  survey form which was sent to all registered players , referees and league management members in the county . I'm interested in a. the number of people who completed the survey compared to the numbers researched .and b. what the   answers are . Traditionally most of us complain about the FA , sometimes with good reason but in this case Norfolk FA have made some sort of effort to see what the reason is for the decline .Your Trelawney and Duchy leagues seem to have stopped losing teams but our equivalent  leagues have lost 6 teams since the turn of the year  with the possibility of 3 or more folding before the end of the season . 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

The lack of response shows the present apathy in football.

We all know why...too much TV football, too much youth football too early, over hyped prima donna's at every level - and a million other things to do today.

[fenman]

The result of the survey is actually worse than apathy Older . Out of several thousand  people involved in Norfolk football  surveyed , only 911 replied  . Of that 911 a large number took the opportunity to abuse members of the FA and league officials . Having seen some of these replies I realise how low peoples respect has sunk . I'm not into facebook or twitter  but I understand that this sort of thing is quite normal on those types of media . I now know why a journalist described twitter as a vehicle for people with mental problems . As I said earlier I thought the questions asked in the survey were a bit too complex in relation to the purpose of it ,  I still thought it was a good idea to establish why grassroots football is dying . Of the 911 replies about 500 gave the following 2 reasons as their opinion where the problems lie . One was the travel involved , now this is a strange reason as 5 of the leagues in the county have a maximum radius of 15 miles . The remaining league , the top  step below semi-pro , is countywide and includes part of Suffolk but the lower divisions are regionalised to a degree to keep travel down . The other reason given is equally strange , The fixtures aren't published at the beginning of the season for the whole season .  I hope this doesn't indicate the intelligence ( or lack of ) of Norfolk people as a whole  BUT !!!!  . How can 500 people not grasp that county cup games coupled with unpredictable weather and also juggling pitch availability make publishing fixtures for the complete season impossible ?  Alright someone's going to say .that your leagues do it easily .  

To sum it up the only real result of the survey was ???????????????????? 

[stevieb]

Fenman the truth is people use any excuse not to play gone are the days when you would turn up even when , ill as you were worried about your place in the side , now if they don't turn up then don't get picked to start the following week they are off to another club  loyalty is a two way street how many clubs get some money , pay players and get rid of local players ? Money runs out as it always does and surprise club struggles to attract players , I have only recently came across a player  who admitted he went to where the money was , at least he was honest .

 

[stevieb]

Fenman check out the Trelawney League post for today  and check BD post frightening reading .

[Dave Bartlam]

21 minutes ago, stevieb said:

Fenman check out the Trelawney League post for today  and check BD post frightening reading .

Believe it or not... it's my understanding that compared to the national shrinkage rate, we aren't doing that bad. Much worse in places further North. Regardless, it is frightening how participation has decreased over the past five years in our league alone.

 

[stevieb]

1 hour ago, B_D said:

Believe it or not... it's my understanding that compared to the national shrinkage rate, we aren't doing that bad. Much worse in places further North. Regardless, it is frightening how participation has decreased over the past five years in our league alone.

 

Perhaps it will settle down in a few years and it will get back to a sustainable level , no easy answer  it may be people have fell out of love with the national game .

[Tempo]

The truth of the matter is, more kids are addicted to things like games than they are football. I've had players skip games to play Fifa or a new game. Football isn't the top of a lot of people's priority lists anymore. I also think less clubs means less opportunities, it's very hard to integrate youngsters. I've been trying my best to get young players into the squad, give them plenty of game time only for them to leave at the end of the season, it makes me more reluctant to take a chance on the next decent youngster to come our way. I don't think it's one issue exactly, but perhaps a combination of a lack of patience, a lack of opportunities, and the surge towards digital technologies.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

We had a FIFA night in the club a while back, there were more people watching that than a normal game....and they were more passionate about it as well......I stood there shaking my head in disbelief.

[stevieb]

28 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

We had a FIFA night in the club a while back, there were more people watching that than a normal game....and they were more passionate about it as well......I stood there shaking my head in disbelief.

No way older ? 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, stevieb said:

No way older ? 

Yup....true as I stand here.

[stevieb]

That is unreal   , older I bet your flabbergasted , how much coke did they drink ?   Or were they drinking protein shakes ?  The mind boggles  ..

[St Darren]

I wrote a post about grass roots football a few years ago, I'll try and dig it out and post I there.  It will be interesting to read again to see what's changed 

[St Darren]

Found it.  March 12 2012 it was written called "change the game" but it's been  archived. 

I was championing the use of roll on roll off subs and youth football. 

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

11 hours ago, stevieb said:

That is unreal   , older I bet your flabbergasted , how much coke did they drink ?   Or were they drinking protein shakes ?  The mind boggles  ..

Yeah, I couldn't believe the interest in it, and you're right as well....coke, coke, coke.

[JENGLE]

It all starts at the top. For me one of the reasons is the foreign players and owners that are around in the game.

[Tempo]

On 3/4/2017 at 21:00, JENGLE said:

It all starts at the top. For me one of the reasons is the foreign players and owners that are around in the game.

Although I agree this is a problem on a professional level, I'm not sure this is the issue with low level grassroots football. International players shouldn't be having a big impact on a 17/18 year old wanting to be a part of a team on a Saturday afternoon. Maybe it's the lack of opportunity and loyalty? After a player I put a lot of time and effort into left at the end of last season it made me slightly wary of trying to develop a player when he's just going to leave the following year. 

[ECPL]

Spoke to a local lad at Bovey Tracey on Sunday for as womens game and I asked him if he had any idea why young lads leave the game instead of going in to senior football.  His reply.  They are never given a chance.  Food for thought that one,.  

[Tempo]

54 minutes ago, Keith B said:

I'm not sure that many youngsters even look at this web site fenman. Too many interests elsewhere. Following their peers off doing other things, gadgetry, texting/tweeting etc,. What on earth they all listen to on their headsets etc, goodness knows. Dangerous practice that too - lost in a world of whatever and oblivious to whats happening around them. Almost had a head on crash with one recently - approaching a blind bend on a narrow country lane, I gave a long blast on my horn - no reply so I carried carefully on only to have a young lad come around the bend at speed. We stopped in a cloud of smoke and mud and there was he, ear pieces in both ears and when I wound my window down, he had to remove his ear pieces in order to hear what I said. I will leave you to imagine what I said.

However, I digress. Many young people these days live in a totally different world to that which those of us at my age (mid 70's) grew up in and the entertainment they have available and look for, differs greatly from our day. Largely we made our own entertainment when I was young, and taking part in sport was very high on our agenda. When not engaged playing football, I spent my time roaming the fields and woodlands and along the riverbanks and went river fishing. Nowadays youngsters would probably laugh at you if you suggested that as a good healthy pass time. I know we're not all the same, but it seems a shame to me that there was so much good about what we did when I was young, compared with a lot of what youngsters get up to these days. 

I'm not sure many people my age (22) have football at the top of their priority list to be honest. There's thousands of things they could be doing. I don't think football will ever truly die, but I think a few more clubs will fold before we reach a sustainable number of teams again.

[Tempo]

1 hour ago, Keith B said:

That's interesting Tempo and of course it's your age group and younger probably that fenman was aiming at with his initial post. 

Everyone who knows me that it's always going to be at the top of my list - but the number of people in this age bracket willing to muck in and help out is certainly limited. When some of the past generations begin to retire, it worries me that in the coming years there won't be the same number of people to replace them. I know how much work goes into running a club and even a team, I'm lucky at Frogpool that we have such a fantastic committee fronted by Nick and Michelle Mallaber who put in so much to the club. It's easy to show up and play, but football will struggle if more young people don't get involved behind the scenes.

[JENGLE]

Tempo, I agree that it doesn't impact grassroots football as much, and it's more a problem in the professional game. But it is definitely a reason why football is dying. I do think players move around all too often these days. This obviously as an impact on clubs, who therefore may have to fold due to a lack of loyalty shown by players. The less teams there are around the more boring football is. So yes, that is definitely another reason why football is dying. When it comes to not being given a fair opportunity, then I understand the reason for moving. A lack of volunteers is also a problem like you mentioned. Not many youngsters want to muck in and help out. And the reason is simple, they really can't be bothered. A good set up always helps for people to get involved in. And thankfully we have this at Frogpool.

[Tempo]

23 hours ago, Keith B said:

You're right jengle.  What concerns me is the lack of enthusiasm in younger players. This ''can't be bothered'' attitude in the young these days, is not untypical of the young over the years, and doubtless the reasons for this are many and varied. What clubs need to find, is the right mix for youngsters and to make them welcome, whilst encouraging them to get involved with the clubs activities, and of course playing football. I guess only a keen youngster, one who loves the game, is the best motivator for his peers. Hunt these guys out and promote the game through them. 

There are some clubs around who are very welcoming to youngsters, and of course Frogpool is one of them, but when I first started playing I went to Mawnan. They got us (four 16-year-olds) stuck into all of their social events and tried to get us some game time in the pre-season. A couple of us ended up leaving due to the huge squad they had there at the time, but I know I wouldn't have been as confident as I am now if it wasn't for that experience. The average age in our current Frogpool Reserves squad must be in the low 20s.

[JENGLE]

This can't be bothered attitude really does frustrate me sometimes to be honest Keith. Many aren't willing to step up and help contribute off the pitch, alongside playing. And I honestly think that's down to laziness. I'm 19, 20 next week, and I am a member of the Frogpool committee alongside fundraising for the club and organising our End of Season Presentation Evening. This is all on top of playing. It really isn't too much to ask to be honest, although it does help if you enjoy it, which I most definitely do. I'll continue to be involved in football in one way or another for a long long time to come.

[Tempo]

7 hours ago, Keith B said:

Well done Jengle  It makes you wonder why some young lads bother to play at all. Is it peer pressure ? Does this attitude show in the way they apply themselves to playing ? If so, unless they can be encouraged to change their attitude, clubs would be better off without this kind of mentality. We need young lads who, like yourself, love the game and who want to be involved in all aspect of it, including helping out at the club itself. Attitudes can be changed, so I suppose all involved with a club should set about getting alongside young lads and encouraging them at all levels and aspects of club football. Getting involved in all aspects of club football, is what can foster a feeling of belonging and thereby generate loyalty to a club. 

 

Think we've got it alright at Frogpool for the most part to be fair. There are the odd few that show up and are reluctant to do their bit but they're normally "fined" so that they can at least help fund our end of season do. Incredibly it's a small group of our best players who, most of which, were playing senior football a couple of seasons ago who help me out the most. I won't name drop anyone, but it shows why they were good enough to play at that level. Passion for the game I suppose. As well as a general good willed nature to help out. 

[JENGLE]

Attitude is definitely a problem in my opinion. I agree we need more youngsters that are willing to do their bit off the pitch rather than just on it. But it's whether the young people of today are willing to do that. My view? I don't think they are. Like Tempo said, we are very lucky at Frogpool to be honest. A lot of people are willing to help out in many areas off the pitch. Those that do help are both at the start of their career and at the end.