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Results of first Cornwall FA Behaviour Working Group


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Cornwall FA Behaviour Working Group 

Recently there has been much debate and discussion about poor behaviour in local football in Cornwall. Following discussions with clubs, leagues, players and referees Cornwall FA asked for volunteers to sit on a working party to identify the reasons for poor behaviour and make recommendations on what steps can be taken to address it.

Following a fantastic response the first meeting was held on April 20thThe group consists of club secretaries and chairmen, club managers, spectators, coaches, referees and league representatives from all levels of football in the County.

 

The main recommendations of the working group from the initial meeting are as follows

Pre-season meetings

A pre-season meeting to be held with representatives of The Leagues, Cornwall FA, Devon FA (where a Devon club competes)

Referees appointed to these leagues will be invited to attend along with The Manager, Captain and Secretary (committee member) of each team. This will be an opportunity for the referees to clarify the laws of the game and for all parties to highlight expectations for the season. 

Agenda and discussion points to be drawn up by working party in consultation with league, referees and clubs

 

Presentations for Clubs

Clubs to host evenings for their players and committee to educate on laws of the game, led by Cornwall FA and inviting local referees “Are you having a laugh presentations to be utilised” so it can be done in a relaxed informative manner. For clubs that don’t have access to bars and clubhouses work with other local clubs who do, more than just the host club can attend. Use the managers and captains who attended league meetings help to run the evening. 

 

Referee Ambassadors

A referee takes on the responsibility of being an ambassador to a local club/clubs. They are the point of contact should the club wish to discuss any issues, request support or want clarification on the laws of the game. 

 

Rewarding Positive behaviour

Instead of focusing on poor behaviour and sanctions Cornwall FA need to promote positive behaviour and good experiences. We will have a monthly prize in which individuals/clubs are nominated to receive an award for displaying sporting or positive behaviour. Each month a prize will be given (boots/footballs/training equipment) and at the end of the season the monthly winners are entered into a draw where an overall individual and overall team winner will be selected by the working party and will receive a further prize. There will be a separate statement with more details

 

Cornwall FA transparency and communication

When charges of Misconduct are issued the details of any sanctions and offences to be published on CCFA website and social media alongside weekly suspension list highlighting what action has been taken by The County for more serious cases.

 

The Future

The Working group will be meeting a minimum of 4 times a season to review the recommendations and what impact they have made. They will also look at making further recommendations as and where appropriate.

To make this a success we will require co-operation from everyone involved in the game to make a commitment to improving the standard of behaviour.

 

The group is still looking for more people passionate about Cornish football and if you feel you could add a different perspective or have a positive impact on the group then please contact Richard Pallot at Cornwall FA

01208 269010 or email richard.pallot@cornwallfa.com

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  • 3 weeks later...

What would everyone suggest? Reports are coming out today of a 14 year old referee being head butted at an U7's game he was officiating in. A rowdy spectator on the sidelines was told to leave the field of play... Spectator then decided to bestow a head onto the kids nose.

Something has to be done with regard to discipline on that field. If anyone has any brighter ideas that will stop next week's referee getting one on the nose, make them known to the working group and we'll talk about it!

Its not a laughing matter, it's not one that should be taken lightly. Football is becoming a sport where people think holliganism (which is what it can be classed as) is becoming the norm.

 

That needs to change. It needs to change quickly!

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I agree that good behaviour should be the norm, but it's not as we all know. So instead of the stick approach it was suggested that a small carrot might work. This whole format is not set in stone and can be constantly evolving, if anyone has a better idea come forward and say as no one person has all the answers.

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This sort of behaviour has been going on for years, I think it’s getting blown out of proportion recently.  Officials should take the appropriate action on and off the field and then leave it to the FA to do the rest, if they are not up to doing this then they shouldn’t be officiating in the first place! I am massively against officials coming on here (dangerous you are the worst for it) and making it public knowledge what happened in todays game, your reasoning behind your decisions, your opinions on teams etc etc. There is a certain etiquette that officials have always adhered to with regards to this, and I think by you stirring things up on here constantly is just having a detrimental effect on things.

Leave things be, let the officials go about their business, weed out the weak ones if needed by doing this, if this has a detrimental effect on matches not having officials then so be it, it’ll either make the teams know this cannot continue or finally give the CCFA the much needed push / shove to stop accepting teams into an already overflowing Cornish pyramid league!

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10 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Nothing positive about rewarding something that should be the standard/norm.

But thats why this whole move has had to be considered because it's not the norm!

20 minutes ago, Sijames said:

I am massively against officials coming on here (dangerous you are the worst for it) and making it public knowledge what happened in todays game, your reasoning behind your decisions, your opinions on teams etc etc. 

I'm the opposite to the above thought. I think it's actually quite refreshing to hear the match officials side of things.

In the bigger picture, we need to bring the refs, players and clubs closer together and that's where any pre-season meeting/get together will help.

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@Sijames I'm afraid that won't change. I speak my mind. I will say it how it is. How many times are referees slated on beer by teams and no one speaks up for the referee? The referee has this whole "etiquette" philosophy so doesn't say a word. I write my reports when I've played in a game and I'd be welcoming to read a referees thoughts on the game. It's a different side of the coin which only he/she sees. 

Personally, I'd like to see the regular referees and those with much more experience than myself talking about their games.

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1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

But thats why this whole move has had to be considered because it's not the norm!

I'm the opposite to the above thought. I think it's actually quite refreshing to hear the match officials side of things.

In the bigger picture, we need to bring the refs, players and clubs closer together and that's where any pre-season meeting/get together will help.

i have no doubt you find it refreshing to hear this, you are a part time journalist are you not?! love a bit of gossip! but that doesn't not mean officials should be doing it!

 

38 minutes ago, Dange'rous said:

@Sijames I'm afraid that won't change. I speak my mind. I will say it how it is. How many times are referees slated on beer by teams and no one speaks up for the referee? The referee has this whole "etiquette" philosophy so doesn't say a word. I write my reports when I've played in a game and I'd be welcoming to read a referees thoughts on the game. It's a different side of the coin which only he/she sees. 

Personally, I'd like to see the regular referees and those with much more experience than myself talking about their games.

You wont hear 'those with much more experience' doing this, as they are not silly enough to make these schoolboy errors, hence their experience!

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1 hour ago, Sijames said:

i have no doubt you find it refreshing to hear this, you are a part time journalist are you not?! love a bit of gossip! but that doesn't not mean officials should be doing it!

Surely the fact that the referees are commenting on their game means there's more of a chance gossip might be averted?

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2 hours ago, Sijames said:

It worries me that you do not recognise them yourself!

 

Anyway back to the matter in hand, I think the working group could learn a lot from AGM’s, any other business is a great time to have a Q&A session!

 

I personally haven't ever seen a referee that hasn't made a schoolboy error in a game. From grassroots all the way up to professional. Which is why I asked you specifically what you mean.

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Keith,

before I took up a whistle, I'd have agreed with you. But I've seen a different side to it. Players and managers come on here and absolutely hammer referees. There's always three sides to a story, you always hear two sides. Depending on what has occurred in a game will determine what I say when I post on here. I don't often talk about the incidents in my games (except last week which is on another post), personally I like to applaud the games I've reffed where the two teams have been very good. They deserve that I feel. 

Theres always going to two sides; in agreement or disagreement to whether a referee says anything on a public forum. Personally, for me it depends on what's happened in the game

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A frustrating statement that comes up from time to time is that "referees give up their time...." Umm, that's not the case, they get paid for doing the job. Not 100% sure what the fee is but it's better than minimum wage. Therefore they are doing a job and people expect them to do the job well!!!

 

the whole respect thing needs to be sorted at the top in order for it to filter through to the lower levels

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7 minutes ago, St Darren said:

A frustrating statement that comes up from time to time is that "referees give up their time...." Umm, that's not the case, they get paid for doing the job. Not 100% sure what the fee is but it's better than minimum wage. Therefore they are doing a job and people expect them to do the job well!!!

 

the whole respect thing needs to be sorted at the top in order for it to filter through to the lower levels

I agree. We all give up our time to play and officiate. But referees do get paid for it. £18 a game in junior football. 

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On the forum there has been a general battering of officials on occasion, but I detect a slight change away from this, with a few now saying "leave them alone" no referee - no game.

And that is starting to bite.

 £18 for putting up with a load of whining, moaning, general bad behaviour, not paid well enough.

Look at that CLF what a bunch of losers, namby pamby, little girls that lot were.

Clattenberg should have sent about 6 off for play acting, they can't live in a working mans world.

I'd be the same as the other geezer, you've been told, didn't comply - off you go.

Although dange'rous, I'm not a great fan of you, or any ref explaining your decisions on here.

Very easy for some to have a go buddy, I'd go down the route of others......a little bit aloof goes a long way - keep the mystery.

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1 hour ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

On the forum there has been a general battering of officials on occasion, but I detect a slight change away from this, with a few now saying "leave them alone" no referee - no game.

And that is starting to bite.

 £18 for putting up with a load of whining, moaning, general bad behaviour, not paid well enough.

Look at that CLF what a bunch of losers, namby pamby, little girls that lot were.

Clattenberg should have sent about 6 off for play acting, they can't live in a working mans world.

I'd be the same as the other geezer, you've been told, didn't comply - off you go.

Although dange'rous, I'm not a great fan of you, or any ref explaining your decisions on here.

Very easy for some to have a go buddy, I'd go down the route of others......a little bit aloof goes a long way - keep the mystery.

I agree; the only time I've spoken out about incidents in my games was that one last week. But that's because I was riled up after the game then saw a post on a thread. Maybe not the best course of action to take, but I was rather annoyed at it. When I start refereeing full time (if), I would hardly say a thing on this forum regarding any of the matches I officiate in. I'd take mr Soccer Followers approach. State scores, times of goals etc

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37 minutes ago, St Darren said:

A referee gets paid roughly the same per hour as a nurse!!

clattenburg sets himself up for anise as he believes he's the big man, like Howard Webb and that other clown who booked the fella 3 times in the World Cup 

The difference is - all players think they are the big man these days.

As for the analogy with a nurses pay, try that with what some players are getting (!)

Anise (?)

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I'm not talking about players pay

i am talking about people saying about refs giving up their time and then some saying that they don't get enough. But as an hourly rate for doing their "job" they get roughly the same as a nurse gets so it's not that bad in comparison is it

clattenburg is consistently bad, Spurs Chelsea game he lost control, FA cup final he made a couple of shockers. Ok he was decent in champs league final. 

What about Stuart atwell? Someone who was fast tracked, have a google of Watford v reading I think and the goal he gave. He's made several indefensible errors

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10 hours ago, St Darren said:

I'm not talking about players pay

i am talking about people saying about refs giving up their time and then some saying that they don't get enough. But as an hourly rate for doing their "job" they get roughly the same as a nurse gets so it's not that bad in comparison is it

clattenburg is consistently bad, Spurs Chelsea game he lost control, FA cup final he made a couple of shockers. Ok he was decent in champs league final. 

What about Stuart atwell? Someone who was fast tracked, have a google of Watford v reading I think and the goal he gave. He's made several indefensible errors

What do you actually believe the hourly rate to be? It will be nowhere near what a Nurse gets when you factor in travel time, game preparation and game conclusion (plus report writing). 

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Trelawney ref match day with a 2.30ko ..... leave home about 1 to arrive at game for 1.30 (if traffics good and you can find the ground) do pitch inspection, warm up ect ready for ko. 3.15 (ish) half time .... 2nd half ko 3.30 (ish) match finishes at 4.15, 4.30 by time showered/changed, 5pm after food and drink home about 5.30.... that's 4 1/2 hours so about £4 an hour ... the abuse during and after the games not included in our 'hourly' rate nor is the time doing reports, trips to ccfa in bodmin for appeals or anything else us over paid refs do in preparation for a match. And out of that huge amount of money we have to buy our own kit, boots, flags and register.... some refs end up paying to ref ... ?

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There aren't many jobs that pay you travel time. 

I appreciate you need a ref for a game but people need to remember they are being paid to do the job

tommy, I appreciate your knowledge and experience is far superior than mine but in that game with clattenburg he should have stamped it out earlier and it shouldn't have got to that stage, in my opinion of course

a nurse gets a salary of around £22k I believe after training. That's about £11/£12 per hour!!!

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We certainly don't get £11/£12 an hour. Even without travelling time arriving an hour before kick off and after all admin finished after the game you are looking at 3 hours at least. Plus any time for reports when you arrive home, attend any CPD events and appeals. Not that many do it for the money but, because we get paid shouldn't be an excuse for the abuse.

 

It will be like saying that I could come into your place of work and abuse you during your shift every time I feel you do something wrong. It wouldn't be acceptable so shouldn't be acceptable in football either.

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Why do people go into reffing (?) for the money (?) of course not.

They want to put something back into the game, or 99% do - money does not come into it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What job do you have to get abuse everyday (?)

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I help and advise unemployed people into work. 

Ive also never said that they do it for the money. I said that they get paid. If a ref works on a Saturday afternoon then Sunday morning then Sunday afternoon it's not a bad little additional income is it for something that you choose to do 

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Anita sums it up perfectly, same as Mr Hairy Dave... People think reffing is an hour and a halfs work... It's not. 

On top of what Anita says... The referee course is up to £100. You have to attend promotion seminars if you want the step up. The new kit is £90. Then you have the other things to consider; black boots (to match the kit), match day cards, yellow/red cards, whistles, pens/pencils, watches, lanyards, flags (theee sets this season... Subs tend to catch balls with them, poke bushes etc)... I've paid out more for equipment than I've received this season. If anyone says they do it for the money, I can guarantee you it is because they don't have a job on the side. 

My game last Friday... 10 minutes confirming the game, 2 hours washing and drying my kit so it looks presentable, 15 minutes organising my match cards, putting team names on etc. 15 minutes travelling time, arrive at the ground 1 hour early, pitch inspection and warm up... 90 minutes football with 15 minute gap in between. Get moaned at throughout that whole time.... Collect my £20 fee.... Travel 15 minutes home. 30 minutes putting the fixture details on whole game. 3 hours writing reports, getting them proof read and sending them off. 25 minutes on the phone to the CCFA to determine the actions to take. Add it up... Should there be an appeal following that game, that's another 2 hours travelling then the time for the appeal (all unpaid)... All that for £20...  Urmmmmmm

 

I understand your reason for comparison... But there's more to it than meets the eye.

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5 minutes ago, St Darren said:

I help and advise unemployed people into work. 

Ive also never said that they do it for the money. I said that they get paid. If a ref works on a Saturday afternoon then Sunday morning then Sunday afternoon it's not a bad little additional income is it for something that you choose to do 

Mine was a generic statement based on 50 years in football buddy, not aimed at you mate.

Tough job there also, Bit like refereeing, you just cannot please all the people all of the time.

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34 minutes ago, Keith B said:

Living proof that refs only do it out of love for the game. Strength to your arm Anita and all you other refs. Thanks for what you do for the game and in order that we can enjoy football season after season. You don't deserve all the abuse you get, just thanks from football supporters everywhere. I hope that the FA and CCFA etc, back you to the full and use all means necessary to stamp out abuse of officials in the game.

I won't be getting any abuse next year .... I won't be reffing :-D

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Now there you have it guys another one bites the dust , how much more  stick are we going to dish out to our officials ?   £18 to ref a game , come on what can you buy for that ?   3 gallon of fuel  , 3 to 4 pints  a takeaway meal ?  So up to 32 people can have and enjoy a game of football  and forget all their troubles and cares for a couple of hours ,  no they don't have to ref  the money is not the problem , a lot want to put something back into our sport , it could be some have retired from playing or injury  or some could not get into a team but want to stay involved in the game at grassroots , so  let's not support our refs  let them get stick and walk away then perhaps the critics and there seems to  a few can have their way and leagues fold as games can't get played  and we end up with meaning less friendly games ,  we all can't be the best  be it players , managers , refs , linesman , but it takes alsorts to make local football tick . The next time your club hasn't got a ref  pick up the whistle and give it a go. Or are you the type to say no not me I am not putting up with that ? All that hassle and I don't even get to kick a ball in anger .  Please think guys  refs are only human like us all and if you keep getting a kicking on a forum  which lots read would you carry on ?  Doubt it  though k about what you wish for because it is getting harder to attract  people to our sport in any capacity .

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