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County Youth -v- SWPL


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I understand that Newquay has 5 players in the County Youth Squad for this weekend's trip to Jersey. I believe that the League will not postpone this weekend's ganme between Newquay and Penryn. I further understand that the League has said that if the Clubs can agree between themselves to postpone the game it will allow that. I believe that Penryn has not agreed to postpone the game. I was told that a League rule was introduced in the old SWL in it's final year which allowed a game to be postponed when 2 or more players from a club were selected to play either for the County Youth team or full County team. If so why wasn't that rule incorporated automatically into the SWPL rules or constitution. Why should talented young footballers be penalised and miss a club game because they wish to represent their County as most individuals should. It is also possible that if Newquay wins on Saturday the players returning may lose their place in consequence, whereas in all the circumstances if they were available for Saturday's game it is likely every one of them would be in the starting line up. There are fewer games in the League this year so more capacity to be sensible and postpone a game until a later date be it a Saturday, midweek or even a Sunday as I understand that we offered that day to Penryn. Is there not something the SWPL can do about this, as I understand that Tommy and the CCFA cannot?

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Guest Peppermint

An absolute farce once again and I fought long and hard at CSWL Meetings to have this rule brought in but the powers that be have arrogantly ignored the rule in the new Peninsula set up. I can remember the Chairman of the CSWL remarking after I had put the case for postponement that this was not a Youth League!! The same league then allowed Plymouth Argyle into the league and we all know what a brilliant decision that was!!!! The league did pass the new rule at the next AGM but now is obviously defunct.

Some clubs are paying stupid sums of money to field teams in the Peninsula Leagues but because Newquay are trying to be sensible and give young players a chance they are being penalised. What a way to encourage promising players and makes the whole thing a farce. Surely if you are representing your County at any level you should have the same rights.

This, I must emphasise is my personal opinion, and not Newquay Football Club because I have no official capacity with the Club. Common sense seems to go out of the window when making decisions. I thought i had better add that before the league officials start threatening Newquay.

In a way you cannot blame Penryn for their stance but it would have been a nice gesture but that is wishful thinking. I see that their are games fixtured for Fridays so why on earth can't games like this be played then after all Mount Wise has things on top of pylons called floodlights that enable night games to be played!!!!!

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I understand the St Agnes v Newquay 2nds is off as St Agnes have 2 players in the county youth,where is the justice,Penryn have shown themselves to be totally unsporting in rearranging the game ,if the shoe was on the other foot they would be screaming from the rooftops.

So come on Penryn have a change of heart and play Newquay 1st team at a later date and show your team to be sportsmen.

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Guest Peppermint

I think that proves Bazzer that the Combination League is much more in touch with reality than the Peninsula League. Well done to the Combo for having some common sense.

I wonder when we will get a reaction from the League officials or is that asking too much!

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P ISS POOR SHOW FROM PENRYN AND EVEN WORSE FROM THE PENINSULA LEAGUE,NO RESPECT FOR NEWQUAY BEING SWOWN AT ALL,OLD ADAGE "WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND" :angry2:

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Couldn't agree more regarding the rules in the SWPL fellas. Ask yourselves this. The 5 players selected from Newquay have been playing regularly for the first team this season, teamsheets will confirm this. So why then are Newquay being penalised for fielding county players when other teams will not when they are selected for the senior side?

I've argued long and hard about this and so have my colleagues at the CCFA and to say the league is not a youth league when you allow Argyle to do what they did leaves their argument open to question.

I've had a long chat with John Hodge about this and he's thrilled that the players have been included and has no problem with me selecting them, but come on SWPL, where's the logic in all this?

If Newquay were trying to get the game called off by claiming Combo players were playing in the first team I'd be the first to be on the SWPL's side, but that's clearly not the case.

If the SWPL don't respect the value of county youth games, then they should ask some who have been involved over the years and see whether the players found it valuable or not. After all 2 former players, Dan Stevenson and Jonny Ludlam only played at Wembley last season didn't they and they've always got time to stop and have a good chat when I see them.

You've really got me on one now!

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Guest Peppermint

Well said Tommy - no one is complaining about the boys representing the County and everyone at Newquay are absolutely delighted for the lads. Sam Hunter is in the squad for the second year and is playing really well at the moment. I know John Hodge, Andy Dingle and Jim Hilton are delighted for the boys but where is the common sense in the Peninsula League not allowing postponements. Unfortunately they see themselves as a law unto themselves and do not mind riding roughshod over anyone.

As someone who spent a long time at meetings trying to get the rule changed it is very frustrating to see this happening. The powers that be in the League should be throughly ashamed of themselves and even now they could do the decent thing and allow the postponement. Then a pink pig as just gone flying by outside!

Incidentally Tommy - good luck in the game and the best of luck for the coming season to the County Youth Squad.

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Now that Newquay know they have at least 5 players in the County Youth set up -now is the time to negotiate with other SWPL(W) clubs to consider rearrangements in view of the forthcoming CC Youth fixtures.

Playing midweek is the better option although a Friday may be good for a gate increase I cannot see the the County being too happy with players playing 24 hours earlier.

Saturday is one of 6(more if successful in KO games) CC Youth dates during the season.

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Guest Postie Pidge

Falmouth have one player (Luke Appleton) in the Youth squad and their game has been cancelled on Saturday.

Only because St Day are at home in the Junior Cup!

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Guest Peppermint

Mike - this will only happen if the other clubs Newquay are due to play cooperate. If they are like Penryn then there is no chance. Why the hell can't the Peninsula League make a sensible decision.

Postie Pidge's posting re the postponement due to a Junior Cup makes it all the more farcical.

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Peppermint=I do feel sorry for Newquays predicament and I guess that new league rules cannot be introduced mid season.

So what I suggested was for Newquay to get the SWCC youth fixtures and this will give more time to try and reschedule a new date with the swpl(w) clubs.

How long ago did Newquay approach Penryn on changing the date?

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Guest Peppermint

I am not sure Mike when Newquay approached Penryn but I can see that if Newquay did approach clubs that they have to play in the future when County Youth games are on they may get some cooperation.

I appreciate that rules cannot be changed mid season but it is surprising that as the rule to allow postponements was in the old CSWL rules why was it not included in the new set up. When I was involved with Newquay as Football Secretary I fought hard for the change only for it to be cast aside by the new regime.

It does not encourage clubs to give talented young players a chance and Newquay undoubtedly have some good young players who will only get better.

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Thanks for your good wishes Peppermint. All the players will give their all you can be certain of that.

I'm not having a go at Penryn for not cancelling the game, it's not their fault, it's the rules that should be looked at.

Clubs should not be so shortsighted, it could be their club next year that has players representing Cornwall and the shoe may be on the other foot!

I bent over backwards for one particular club in recent years to help them out when they were short by offering them a player back one Saturday which meant that I'd be short, only for them to make life difficult for me the following season!

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Guest Peppermint

Yes - I can't really say I blame Penryn either. The shame about this is I know your job as County Youth Manager is difficult enough Tommy without obstacles being put in the way.

When I tried to get a game postponed at a CSWL Meeting two seasons ago I got no support or very very little. I tried to explain at the time that another club could be in the same position for the next season but it fell on deaf ears. Having then managed to get the rule through at the next AGM it is very disappointing that the new regime did not incorporate it in the new rules.

All every fair minded football follower wants is a level playing field for each club. Surely this makes common sense. If as the County Youth Squad did last year and gets to a final then it benefits Cornish Football the same way as if the full squad does well.

I notices yesterday at one point the Peninsula League Secretary was logged onto the site but no comment was posted. It would be interesting to hear John Mead's views and perhaps other clubs because remember next season the boot could be on the other foot!!!!

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Guest Peppermint

Seems a little unfair Mr Chairman when I know in the past St Blazey have postponed matches due to players involvement in the County Squad!!!

This is 5 players plus all the injured players that Newquay have and any suspensions.

Thought you might be a little more sympathetic and understanding Mr Chairman.

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Mr Chairman,Your reply is what we have come to expect from St Blazey,if the shoe was on the other foot you would be the first to cry unfair treatment.

Are you saying youth players should not be playing in the SWPL?

Lets get back to the fact Penryn are not willing to cooperate,so lets hear from them why.

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Hi Bazzer, I've expressed my own view, which may not be representative of St Blazey FC. I've always supported bringing Youth on when they are good enough, but have never supported calling games off because a Club has them in their side. Managers use it as an easy excuse when it suits them. Maybe I question the validity of a County Youth team in the first place.

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Guest Peppermint

Stig - I no longer have an official position with Newqauy Football Club so it would be difficult for me to speak to the powers that be. I know Newquay did get in touch with the League Management and ask about this a while ago when the situation was known but I think were told that they could request help from the opponents ie Penryn but obviously that fell on deaf ears.

I cannot understand why the hierarchy of the Peninsula League cannot come on the Forum and comment. They use this medium when it is convient for themselves!!!

Lat word for Mr Chairman - we will have to agree to disagree because I think that trying to play promising young players is much the best route rather than paying silly amounts of money that some Cornish clubs are doing.

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Chairman, what part of the County Youth team needs validating?

To have the opportunity to play for your county and make the first step towards the senior team?

To have the opportunity to play against new, varied and often better opposition than some get to play against most Saturdays?

To have the opportunity to be coached by qualified FA coaches, something that many SWPL teams cannot offer?

Our job is sometimes difficult enough, but we do it because to us it actually means a hell of a lot! I was proud to play for Cornwall now I'm proud to manage them..........really proud!

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Guest Skinner1

PENRYN HAS NOT HAD A SATURDAY FIXTURE FOR TWO WEEKS .

ALSO WITH PLAYERS ON SHIFT WORK HOLLIDAYS ETC WE WOULD BE WITHOUT SEVERAL PLAYERS IN A EVENING GAME

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The county youth team is a good thing. like tommy said it gives players something different to what they usually get on a saturday. also leads to chances to be spotted by scouts and maybe bigger local clubs. completely agree that if 2 or more players from any one side are in the county or county youth side they should have the right to call the game off. and im not saying if say to players who were playing say east cornwall for liskeard most weeks and not for the firsts that the first team should be able to call their game off. but team sheets can prove if they are involved enough to justify calling games off. these players may be young but may still be very important to their respective sides. good luck with the county youth this season Tommy hopefully you will go one better than last year.

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Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD

Surely the reason for spare dates at the end of the season was for situations such as this and obviously weather related postponements, so why are the SWPL not using one of these dates for a perfectly valid reason ? Why have we not had Phil Hiscoxs' comments on this subject.

Why, if Penryn state they cannot get players for midweek matches, do the clubs not agree on a sunday fixture now that Mount Wise is free to be used by the mens teams ? Or are Penryn looking to gain maximum advantage knowing the situation Newquay are in ?

Why does the county Youth have to play on a Saturday and not a Sunday ?

The league should be looking to support and assist its member clubs not passing the buck.

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Cheers Hakey mate, good to hear from you.

The fixture dates have to be mutually agreed upon by both counties, much of the time, if counties have a long way to travel, we try to kick off early to get home at a sensible time.

I never get home much before 10.30-11.00pm after games away at Oxfordshire etc. Getting home after a day like that and having to work the following day wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

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Also to add to that it would be hard for the boys, even tho they are young, to play on a saturday and a sunday at the standard they are playing. I think penryn may just be trying to make the most of it, but in my opinion it should not be down to them to agree to call the game off, the county should already make this the case.

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I don't think the SWPL are against any youngster playing for their county youth team. But in essence what has that got to do with a senior league in the FA Pyramid. Without being flipant I would say that all they (SWPL) are saying is their league is an adult league and not a youth league.

I would have thought if clubs mutually agreed to a new arranged date to play the league match then I wouldn't think the SWPL would object. I don't think Devon clubs postponed any of their matches because of County Youth commitments, when Devon Youth played.

It is difficult for teams such as Newquay who have such good young players, but again I would suggest the SWPL would say what has that got to do with this league.

Perhaps Phil H could come on and advise what the SWPL situation is regarding this matter.

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Guest Peppermint

In reply to ECPL - I have seen a number of Premier League and Division 1 West matches this season in the new Peninsula League and I and a number of followers have not been that impressed with the standard that is supposed to be better. We get fed up being told about the Pyramid System and what step each particular league they are in. The Division 1 West, in my opinion, is somewhat of a backward step because last season Newquay had three match officials for each game and could and did enter the FA Cup but although initially entering on the due date were informed much later that they could not participate!

This business of it is not a Youth League is not a valid argument and why should these promising players be penalised just because they are afforded the honour of representing their county. I know the players are delighted when they are selected and I know that the Management at Newquay are very happy for the players concerned and wish them well.

All the clubs ask is for there to be a level playing field and everyone is afforded the same chance to win matches. With reference to Skinner - Newquay have already had free Saturdays this season due to the vagaries of fixturing.

Why, as the Judge stated, is there no comment from the powers that be or do they not bother with the paying supporters who surely deserve an explanation. There is always comments on the Forum denegrating the County FA but the Peninsula League officials get away free from comment!!!

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To be selected for the county team( whether youth or senior team) should be seen as the top honour within the cornish game. These youth players only have two years in which they can be selected, and only a handfull of games each season. So should be given the full support of the swpl. Young lads wouldn't want to miss a league game but cannot and i hope would not want to let their county down.

Rule 12 of the CCFA handbook quite clearly says that they(CCFA) have the power to postpone any club matches which may effect or be effected by county engagements.

As for this is a step 5 league. What would alex Ferguson say in a situation where Rooney was called up for England Duty and Ronaldo for Portugal and the premier league said sorry alex this is the premier league not some step 7 mickey mouse league, you have to play your game against liverpool because these are only two young lads that won't make alot of difference, and you have a reserve team! but you can ask Benitez to see if he would like to cancel the game?

Come on swpl show a little common sense. :c:

By the way i have no connection to Newquay or any of the clubs that have had players selected.

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Guest Peppermint

Excellent posting Ron Manager and the part about the County Handbook and the ruling is relevant but the powers that be in the Peninsula League seemed to think they are beyond this jurisdiction. There arrogance knows no bounds and they simply trot out the same old story about this is not a Youth League etc. Where there is need for common sense there is none applied.

Interesting scenario about players from the Premier League and International duty - the Peninsula League management obviously think they are much more important than the Premier League!!!!!

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If these lads are good enough to play for a club in a step 5 league at 17 years old, then them and their club should be supported to the max by county and SWPL members. Good luck Tommy and the boys. :c:

If not change the rule so as the leagues restricts players playing untill 19 years, and bring back the minors league. but this aint going to help the county team who have to play against some very strong young lads that benifit from coaches at a professional level.

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Tommy, whilst we all appreciate your efforts and problems, just consider the scenario that you selected your Squad from say 8 Clubs. That would give 8 Clubs the opportunity to postpone possibly 8 games. Now is that for the good of local Football at a time when all Clubs are struggling to hold on to their Fan base?

We are all facing more and more Mid-week games, which are just not so good for Bar Revenue and spiralling costs. This Week-end we face a Saturday with neither of our Teams being involved and that represents another loss in Revenue. Doesn't help us to pay our Overheads and maintain the very facilities that we all need to use.

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Chairman, you have a very fair point, the same scenario could be caused by the county senior team though, and all of Newquay's players are playing for their first team in the same way that in the past your club were able to supply the same amount of players for the county's senior team.

Why should there be any difference between senior and youth?

I'm not having a go at you but will someone please come up with a good arguament as to why Newquay's first team county players should be treated differently from other club's first team county players?

By the way we are grateful to all our host clubs for the use of their facilities and hope that when you have a free Saturday we can put some cash back in the coffers by playing our games at your club.

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Guest Phil H

One reply and 1 reply only - I will not be posting on this thread again.

The SWPL works on the FA standardised rules issued by the FA. Other pyramid leagues including the Southern & Western do not allow postponements for County Rep games.

This league has no rule which allows a club to seek a postponement of a pyramid fixture and this is in line with other similar leagues.

Further Penryn were asked by Newquay if they could bring the fixture forward, Penryn refused which is their right. At no time was either club (or will any club) be allowed to put back a fixture and as per rule any fixture change needs to be approved by me 7 days in advance.

This is not an issue like England, for starters their are lots of counties, if we allow 1 club then we have to allow all - Devon, Cornwall, Royal Navy FA, Devon & Cornwall Schools, BUSA, Army FA etc etc - Clubs would never play !

I would not for 1 minute suggest that playing for your County is not an honour, but in this day & age there are so many schools of excellence and young lads signed up by professional clubs that in reality County football is no longer relevant, very few counties actually enter anymore, and those that do include the services teams rather than true Counties, also away from the South West Counties Championship you won't see other areas of the country with the same structure. Crowds are low, entries are low and the rules of semi-professional football these days do not warrant extra spaces for County football - Tiverton, Truro & Bideford - 3 biggest clubs in the area and all 3 have players on contracts and therefore unavalible to the counties. Can playing against a Devon FA team that excludes Plymouth, Exeter, Torquay, Bideford, Tiverton really be a truly representative county team ?

Life moves on and things change, the rest of the counties have already withdrawn. The senior teams fixtures are now all midweek in both Devon & Cornwall as you can't get players released on Saturdays.

Regards

Phil H

PS - Stig, Only the "Senior" county cup of a club now warrants precedence of fixtures over pyramid leagues, no longer "all county cups"

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:wacko: I think people keep missing the point. I appreciate that many years ago virtually all county youth players came from youth teams. The emphasis now appears top be to get these youngsters playing as high a standard as they can and not a bad thing either.

I'm still trying to get my head around what selection to a county youth team has go to do with the SWPL. It surely must be the responsibility of the CCFA to play county youth fixtures on other days than a Saturday.

You also have the situation that a club has no idea how many and who is going to be selected for County Youth teams when the fxtures are arranged. Why should a league have to be at the beck and call of a county especially when it comes to youth football. Don't forget this is not a Cornwall league although I can see both sides of the argument. But I go back to the SWPL, This is nothing to do with them.

It should be up to the county to discuss the situation with the SWPL or let the teams decide, or the county chooses matches to be played on a Sunday or midweek under lights. Perhaps in this case they are not interested as this is a pretty good jolly for the suits to attend. I think blaming the SWPL is not the answer. If they don't do it for Devon clubs why should they do it for Cornwall ones.

THIS IS A QUICK EDIT

I didn't see that one Phil H. I had a cup of tea before coming back to my posting. I think you have also underlined the fact that this is not the SWL anymore. Perhaps its a wake up call to the clubs.

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Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD

Thanks for your comments Phil, they don't help clubs like Newquay, who wish to promote those youngsters who are good enough for the re-structured (lower) level 7 of the Pyramid, but thanks for posting them anyway.

No FA Cup, No Assistant Refs, No help to member clubs when the county come a calling...... and this is supposedly a sideways move for Level 7 ? Pull the other one !

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Well chairman about your loss of revenue im sure you at St Blazey have benifited greatly from county games both senior and youth being played at your ground over the years. And when your first team had a number or players in the county squad i dont recall st blazey playing any games. So why should this be different for the county youth side?

Also to an earlier post about the swpl being an adult league yes thats true it is a senior league, but senior being classed as 16 +.

Some players have gone on to do very well for themselves since playing for the youth side. Andy Watkins was playing when i was there as was John Ludlam. Andy then went to argyle then bideford and now playing for truro as is luds. who both played at wembly along with dan stevenson all products of the county youth system. Proves its worth while and clubs like Newquay who encourage youth players shouldnt be punished for this on a saturday. il stop rambling now haha!

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Guest Peppermint

Firstly I would thank Phil H for posting an explanation and it would seem that Newquay are going to have to play several matches this season without at least 5 players. So much for all Clubs having the same chance with a crack at promotion.

Hakey's posting brings together a lot of good points but as the Judge states [and I don't always agree with him] the new league has not brought any better standard football and it is certainly devalued in the Division 1 West with no neutral assistant referees and no entry to the FA Cup.

The only way to get these options is to gain promotion and these ambitions have been dealt a severe blow for Newquay with several fixtures without several key players.

On another point ECPL seems to be, from his or her postings, a member of a League Management Committee. He obviously has no sympathy for clubs who have to lose players and this is a shame and undermines the good work of Tommy and his assistants with the County Youth Squad.

I and many other people think it is a great honour to represent one's County at any sport and it is a shame that this is being belittled by the new regime.

I feel that I have banged my head against a brick wall for long enough and all I can say is good luck to the County Youth Team tomorrow. Good luck to a depleted Newquay team tomorrow and just remember what you did when missing shed loads of players against the much vaunted Shortwood United team in the FA Vase. Any justice and it would have gone into extra time!

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Thanks to Phil H for his comments, it's quite right for all views to be aired here and now we have the SWPL's side of the arguament.

Counties like Essex, Berks and Bucks, Kent etc, all who have pro clubs still value the youth structure and compete every year.

If it ends up that we as a county don't continue with the county youth it would be a massive shame, and I'll have to find another job on a Saturday!

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