bighairydave Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 The laws are there as a guide and it is the interpretation of these laws which causes the problems. A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the following seven offences: (6) using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures (Laws Of The Game 2014/2015 FIFA page 41) By interpreting this to the letter of the law it suggests that everytime a player uses offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures they are sent off. The game will not last 10 mins because players use foul language out of frustration almost most of the time. Also note that nothing is mentioned about whether it is aimed at at anyone. I think this method of interpretation is not what the author of the laws wanted this law to be applied. I agree with what John Mead is saying. Deal with this reasonably and in accordence with the level of seriousness of the situation i.e. talking to players upto the sending off of players for the most serious. In the case which was mentioned at the very start of this topic it is a srtaight red card because of its seriousness. The other problem is the opinion of the referee whether they thought it was offensive insulting or abusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Waters Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Dealing with the foul language (as that was the subject) where does it say the law's are a guide? What is the point of having a law of the game if everyone has their own interpretation. Having said previously, the tolerance level of match officials varies, this in itself creates anomalies as for the same offence, some clubs lose a player for three matches and others don't. So hence the observation is right when it is said ...'this referee will send you off for swearing, but next week that one will not.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 "So hence the observation is right when it is said ...'this referee will send you off for swearing, but next week that one will not.'" I'm struggling to remember a game I've watched when a player was actually sent off for swearing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Waters Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Probably applies as much to the bench but I am aware of a number of occasions in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlaw18 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Like I said the laws are a guide. If you apply them to the letter (some you do) then this will lead to unjust results. A player swears out of frustration then according to the letter of the law he is sent off because he used foul language...this is what I mean by the laws being a guide. Just because a foul word is said does not automatically mean you send that player off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastyman Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 mrlaw18 Whilst you have made some very constructive comments to the original post, I do feel you have not really given a clear answer to foul and abusive language directed at the referee or linesman. The original post related to the foul language directed at the linesman by the Bodmin player when he was sent off. The lineman accepted the foul language and the player walked away. Is this acceptable? Whilst we all suffer frustration in our daily lives, would it be acceptable for me to use foul language towards a Tesco check-out operator? You know, I know and everybody else knows, the referee and the linesmen have the power to punish foul and abusive language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlaw18 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 no it is not acceptable. What I am saying is that the referee should look at the whole picture before going straight for the red. In this case it is clearly foul and abusive at the AR. this is just my thoughts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Referee Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 The answer is simple : tell your players to STOP doing it and b the referee would be taken out of the equation. As an aside, Aggiemaid is elsewhere on this forum ringing around the entire county for a referee. Otherwise, that match will be cancelled. Please everybody : accept that the shortages of referees (mostly at Trelawney and Duchy League levels) is a real problem so please think about that the next time somebody wants to take out their frustrations on the match officials. If they make an error, it is difficult to Respect the decision - or the person making it- but Respect Campaign is all about getting over it and getting on with the game. MInd you, I agree with earlier comments that this needs to be sorted out at Professional Football level by the FA, UEFA and FIFA as many of the better known culprits are still unpunished even when caught on camera in front of millions of viewers. Albeit very entertaining for the rest of us, Mourinho and Wenger did not set a very good example last weekend and I fear that others will follow their lead. ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 "The answer is simple : tell your players to STOP doing it and b the referee would be taken out of the equation." Isn't the answer just as simple from the referee's side too though - when a player is literally yards away from the ref suggesting that he is "weak", he is "embarrassing" or whatever - produce a card and shut him up. Players will soon get the message! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Like I said the laws are a guide. If you apply them to the letter (some you do) then this will lead to unjust results. A player swears out of frustration then according to the letter of the law he is sent off because he used foul language...this is what I mean by the laws being a guide. Just because a foul word is said does not automatically mean you send that player off. Yes, surely a ref must be given a power of discretion. Using foul language at self in exasperation is one thing, using it towards an opponent is quite another. And using towards an official is simply inexcusable, no matter he or she might be on the occasion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Mr Deacon, I have to laugh at your comment where you state " when a player is literally yards away from the ref suggesting he is weak or embarrassing or whatever-produce a card and shut him up. When has that actually worked with one manager who regularly used the words "you are embarrassing" towards referees, I think you know who I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Mr Deacon, I have to laugh at your comment where you state " when a player is literally yards away from the ref suggesting he is weak or embarrassing or whatever-produce a card and shut him up. When has that actually worked with one manager who regularly used the words "you are embarrassing" towards referees, I think you know who I mean. Actually I would say it does work against Darren! I've seen refs at Priory send him to the stand for breathing! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Sorry Dave, have to disagree with your last comment. Darren Gilbert and his team get away with murder every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Heard em shouting on Wednesday evening, your a f**in embarrassment ref get a grip. And I was the other side of the ground! we all lose our temper from time to time and it aint easy keeping things together when it seems it is your man that got foulded but the more you go up the ladder the better thre tremj no need for it from so called respected gentlemen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 So then we're back to wondering why referees put up with it - their choice at the end of the day to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 But inconsistency amongst officials is simply not acceptable Dave. The players and managers need to know that whoever officiates a match, the punishment will fit the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Odgers Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 He has just been ordered to the stand at Kimberley (today) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyRaa Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 If you wanted a demonstration of the lack of respect within the local game, Saltash was the place to be today. The shy and retiring Darren Gilbert showed his true colours by getting sent from the dugout yet again and moaned about absolutely everything, surrounding the referee at half time and full time, blocked the referees path to his changing rooms, and had to be physically restrained from entering the officials changing room. His favourite catchphrase seems to be "red, that's embarrassing"...,,,,,no Darren....,it's your attitude to the officials and opposing teams that's embarrassing!!!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky170267 Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Great manager though !! Bodmin are very clever at pressuring referees and spoiling games and rhythm. But today they got NIL POINTS !! However.... it was a good battle and saltash just shaded the contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Do we know the alleged offence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Waters Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Dear dear Dave you don't have to be Hercule Poirot to work it out !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V J Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 And here's the icing on the cake as that good old local newspaper reporter, sorry I mean Bodmin supporter, condones the behaviour of his teams manager once again. But he's not biased though! http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/Bodmin-face-disciplinary-action-referee/story-23106357-detail/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 He could have been sent from the dug out for a number of things? Just enquiring about specifics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyRaa Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 The guy in question was not a saltash supporter - fact. He just doesn't like Bodmin. I do hope that the Cornish FA do something about Gilbert as I've lost count how many times he has been sent to the stand in games I have watched. He made a laughing stock of himself at full time . Just get over it -you lost the game, and to a better team on the day, and you'll lose more this season, bodmin aren't invincible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Waters Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Timmy - it's the reporters motto - ' never let the facts get in the way of a good story '. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 When will Marriott realise there is more then one team in Cornwall? He is not unbiased in his reporting, as he should be. Darren Gilbert excelled today and it is well time that his antics were dealt with severely by the Cornwall FA. Even his father joined in today and made it a family affair. I totally agree with Timmy Raa, Gilberts intimidating behaviour is not acceptable. He uses this to his teams advantage and some weak officials are swayed into making decisions in Bodmins favour. I think the Gilberts will regret today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 So we still don't know specifically why he was sent from dug out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I am sure when the referee puts his report in and the subsequent punishments administered, we will all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motherwontletmegoargyle Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 3 game touchline ban, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 I am sure when the referee puts his report in and the subsequent punishments administered, we will all know. But it's weird that no one who was at the game is able to come on here and tell us what happened. Dangerous to assume! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyRaa Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Dave, re-read my post. It says exactly what happened at the end of 90 mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shots Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Bodmin have been getting away with it for a long time,I'm convinced maybe the refs don't want to stand up to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 I. J Dave, re-read my post. It says exactly what happened at the end of 90 mins I apologise if I've misunderstood, but I thought he had already been dismissed from the dug out? That's what I'm asking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyRaa Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 On the whole, the ref did well. He wasn't afraid to make a big decision, and dealt well with Bodmins 'big timers'. He did , however get a few decisions wrong. Ashes should have been awarded a penalty for one of the defenders holding Sam Hughes on the floor. Also, I do feel that the challenge by jimmy Alexander was late , and did warrant a yellow. The linesmen also got a few decisions wrong, and the ref can only give a decision based on what the linesmen saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 If he had already been dismissed from the dugout, he then approaches the referee at full time, then that`s two reports heading towards the CCFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 I. J Dave, re-read my post. It says exactly what happened at the end of 90 minsI apologise if I've misunderstood, but I thought he had already been dismissed from the dug out? That's what I'm asking about From where I was standing (behind one of the goals) there was a coming together by a Saltash and Bodmin player (think the saktash players challenge was a bit late) and the ref gave a free kick to Saltash. Bodmin manager not happy with decision and told the ref what he thought! Not sure what was said but the Bodmin manager delivered his thoughts in what appeared to be an aggressive manner, ref didn't take to kindly to it and sent Bodmin manager to the stands. Although I was stood behind the goal I could clearly hear loud abusive language from the Bodmin bench aimed at ref throughout the game so think this incident was last straw for the ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 If he had already been dismissed from the dugout, he then approaches the referee at full time, then that`s two reports heading towards the CCFA. Would another red card need to have been shown for any further report? I only ask this as quite often after games these days you see the managers having detailed discussions with the refs - doesn't mean they end up being reported though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Also the fact that Darren was a sub - how does that stack up when punishments being handed out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Dave , you do not show club officials any cards , they are reported for misconduct, if I read the post correctly about the manager confronting the referee at full time then I would have sent in another report regarding the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG AL Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Why should the manager NOT confront the referee after the game - they play god so should expect some civilised confrontation if their decisions are awful/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Dave , you do not show club officials any cards , they are reported for misconduct, if I read the post correctly about the manager confronting the referee at full time then I would have sent in another report regarding the incident. Without being there though neither of us really know how vigorous the "confronting" was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmooreshead Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Well I wasn't there Dave but I'm sure I can imagine what happened. Let's face it, it happens every other week with this club I stopped going to watch Bodmin games years ago - someone else on here earlier got it right - The managers ( and his coaching lackeys ) behaviour is the embarrasement Not the refs mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V J Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Interesting point B Manning. Does a club official who is a named substitute not need to be shown a card then? Only when entering the field of play I presume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 VJ, if a club official is also a named substitute, then he should be shown a card be it red or a yellow. If they are purely a club official then they are reported under Misconduct by a club official section 1b. and a referee does not use the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockey jackson Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Just as much as bodmin get the decisions for being forceful in their approach it also goes against them as you find referees then take a disliking and give the opposition all the decisions. Bodmin are not the only sides who do this.there was plenty of Saltash fans swearing and being aggressive to the bodmin team and fans as they did when Witheridge played them earlier this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V J Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 So can anyone at the game confirm whether the player/manager received a straight red or was purely sent to the stand? The reason I ask this is because each carry different bans don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Presumably if a red was shown - it could be a games ban from playing, but leaving Darren ok to be in the dug out as manager. But by the sounds of it if he was just dismissed from the dug out and therefore was disciplined as a manager. However, with the ref knowing he was also a player, should he have been shown a red and therefore sent from the field of play altogether? That is - the changing room? Bit of a minefield really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyRaa Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 As far as I could see, no card was shown, the red just pointed to the changing rooms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheball2014 Posted October 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Sadly, Darren Gilbert has used his neanderthal behaviour to his advantage for years and in the main, got a way with it. He likes to intimidate officials to his teams advantage. Personally, I cannot understand any decent player wanting to play for Bodmin Town, with Gilbert as a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilgrim ashe Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Was at the game yesterday and was close to all the goings on throughout. What was a fantastic match by two of the SWP leagues best sides wrongly overshadowed by Bodmin's managements behaviour. As has been previously said manager Darren Gilbert was sent to the stands by the referee (not red carded) for his language towards the official after he was angered by the wrong decision against his side. He was correct that the decision was wrong but there was no need to react in that manner. The referee was a little inconsistent all game but IMO was fair to both sides, also not helped by a poor assistant right in front of their dugout. At the end of the match on the pitch Ronny Swiggs approached the ref in a angered but relatively calm manner and the referee did not want to hear it. As the referee approached the changing rooms he was approached by a Bodmin fan (allegedly a member of D.Gilberts family) and was threatened to be punched by this individual bearing a closed fist. As he walked past the Bodmin players changing room entrance Mr Gilbert came flying out shouting abuse at all in his wake. The referee then approached the Saltash officials at the game requesting them to find out the fan in questions name as it would be going into his report. At this point Mr Gilbert was agressive to these club officials shouting "what you looking at" as he was dragged away by his players. After a short while Mr Gilbert left the changing room and headed to the clubhouse with the aggresive fan close behind, at which point the chairman of the club attempted to find out the name of the individual, who refused and Mr Gilbert himself led away. unsavoury events all round im afraid. It gladly did not involve in a negative manner any Saltash players, officials or management team. An excellent result for them with Every player putting in an excellent display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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