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Ecplapectator

Standard of refs in ecpl

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its down to interpretation of the laws at the end of the day and, we have all been here before, just because a swear word has been said it is not an automatic red card other circumstances should also be considered (my opinion).

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Only my humble opinion, but in my experience refs, like players, tend to find their natural level and stay there. If a ref is officiating at ECPL level then surely someone has seen fit to appoint him / her to that level.

Your ref may have had a stinker, but that doesn't particularly mean that you need to question the standard of refereeing at your level

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I must admit I was at the St Dominick game and was surprised to see the red cards shown. The first one was a wild challenge by Will Westlake which I think deserved the red card. The second red was a bit of a mystery but I understand it was for words said to the referee. The St Dominick sending off was farcical. Kyle Peacock challenged the Bere winger for the ball which was adjudged a foul. Peacock immediately shouted in anger F*** Off when he was actually facing away from the field of play. The referee then raced 40 odd yards up, the pitch and after handing out a lecture he red carded him. This was the decision I found most annoying as the player did not aim his comments at the referee so he should have been either warned or at the most yellow carded. Although the incident did not warrant either. I got the impression the referee decided to even out one of the Bere red cards. Unfortunately if I could give any advice to the referee it would be YOU ARE THE MAN IN CONTROL. Do NOT get involved in running battles with the Bere dug out or the Bere players. Be firm and avoid confrontation at all costs. Standing arguing with players makes you look bad. Hence the comments from everyone at the game who seemed to think the referee had lost it. It was a shame because both sides were trying to play football but the stop start of the game ruined what would have been a good game. I feel that the referee needs a good talking to about his lack of control and his poor man management of players. It isn't easy but it is something he must learn. I had just come from the Callington v Roche game and referee Smith was firm and positive by letting the game flow and using his COMMON SENSE by talking to players and explaining his decisions.

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The red card for st Dom was Adam kellaway .. Have to agree this ref was awful . No control wanted to be centre of attention and nearly abandoned the game . The only red that was worthy was westlakes the other 3 were just laughable . The majority of the refs in this league are very good with exception of 2 I can think of and one of them we had today . Ecpl did you see all the cards ?

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Agree Mr Smith who was in charge of our game at callington today is by a country mile the best ref around I think it's because he enjoys it and like to see a good flowing game of football! The other is Gary Cornish another fantastic ecpl ref there are a few in this league that are below par sometimes but same old thing no refs no football

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are the players up to the standard?

I'm liking that, I'll give you the answer - 75% are not.

You cannot read a report about a game today without some smart arse, know all, perfect player/manager blaming the referee.

Last week after another ref bashing session on here, I picked up the papers, headlines - Rodgers (Liverpool) blaming the man in black for the result with Man-city, then another one, and another one, and so on. Its really monotonous, and must pee off the referee's to the point of quitting - many have.

I would say to all players/managers - HAVE A LOOK AT YOUR OWN ABILITIES then look at how many mistakes YOU make in a game. I'll tell you - more than the referee does. You're also playing in a shite football standard. Get over yourselves, and just get on with it.

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To the above person . I write a fair reflection of the game and always give praise where it is due ... A shite standard it's football that we all love and enjoy we no we ain't fantastic but it's a game so don't need negative crap . Everyone loves it players make mistakes so do refs but the end of the day it's fun and a addiction.

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To the above person . I write a fair reflection of the game and always give praise where it is due ... A shite standard it's football that we all love and enjoy we no we ain't fantastic but it's a game so don't need negative crap . Everyone loves it players make mistakes so do refs but the end of the day it's fun and a addiction.

You would not think so with the berating of referees - at ALL levels. Pee's me off - big time, its endless.

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Once again a referee who gives his time up to let so called players have a game get slaughtered on here . so he shouldn`t of sent a player off for shouting F++k off that he must of heard from 40 yards away by the statement ECPL made , The use of offensive , abusive , insulting language at any one or shouting it out is a sending off offence . just because he does his job and doesn`t want teams to love him like some Refs do , he is the worst ref ever . A good Ref isn`t the one no one notices he is the one that does his job right not for marks or to be praised on here week in and week out by telling everyone how great they were and what a wonderful time they had and how lovely the teams were today as he didn`t have to show any cards , If you think the ref was poor then get off you moaning ways and do something about it and become a ref , then you can put up with your efforts being bitched about ,being told you were crap , belittled , demeaned , and generally slagging someone off , if you can`t be bothered to become a ref then shut up and think yourself lucky you had one today , plenty didn`t and I`m sure they would of liked a ref so they could play a game of football instead of shopping.

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The ref in question has had a couple of questionable games lately and therefore needs some support. If he is to be "observed" and assessed what will happen then? Do we then question his decisions in previous games?

Would he be "dropped" a level to officiate a lower standard of football?

What can clubs really do about the situation without being branded as bad losers?

MQx

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As a team (mevagissey) just coming into east Cornwall div 1.i have noticed there is a better quality of referees from duchy league.But some of the teams in this league are a hand full and I would not like to be in the middle.but would never send in a report in about a referee. there is no point what so ever as there is a shortage

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Agree with alot that's said and we are lucky to have refs . As a player it's frustrating it's not like it was one sided though it was consistent for both teams . All parties are to blame normally but if you have a ref that makes bad decisions then you get irritated by it . We there to play they there to ref everyone should remember that

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I'm sorry undertaker. I am an ex referee so I think my points are valid. My point is simple. yes players make mistakes but as the man in the middle you are not allowed to make a mistake. The game is there to be enjoyed, my time was a long time ago and the game moves on. But the common sense angle does not. Anyone can know the laws of the game inside out but it is applying them sensibly that makes a good referee. We here swearing all the time but unless it is directed at an official then what is the problem. Kellaways reaction was natural. He felt he was not the one who fouled so he let go an expletive. It was not directed at the referee so why did he react by sending him off. The game could have gone completely out of hand but for the players who controlled themselves although at times they wanted to throttle the ref. I still say the lad should be taken aside and advised on how to handle difficult situations. We don't want to lose referees and yes they need help. unfortunately the powers to be will be backing the referee 100%. And here lies the problem. If the powers to be wont deal with the situation then that referee will only get worse, not better. Nobody likes to see a referee berated by everyone around but in this particular game everybody was of the same opinion and that is not good for the game or the referee himself.

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R the refs up to standard in this league had a dreadful ref today and it ruins games of football for both teams

What would you personally suggest should be done about "improving" the standard so that officlals, pl;ayers and spectators all enjoy the games more?

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Referees should be trained. Simple. When I became a referee I had to attend sort of seminars about the game. Does that happen now. It seems that they close ranks and back each other to the hilt instead of trying to solve the problem.

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They have something, what goes on in these?

From the latest referees fixtures listing :-

RAY BROWN'S ROAD SHOWS

MONDAY 2nd DECEMBER

Bodmin Town FC Social Club 7.30 pm

or ALL REFEREES in Mid Cornwall

THURSDAY 5th DECEMBER Callington Cricket Club 7.30 pm

For ALL REFEREES in East and North Cornwall

Monday 6th January Camborne Redruth and Truro

7.30 Holmans Sports and Social Club

Friday 10th January Falmouth and Helston

7.30 Wendron FC

NOTE these are for ALL REFEREES not just those who are members of the Referees' Association

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there is no such thing as a 'crap' referee. There are experienced and inexperienced referees. Good referees do not grow on trees! to become experienced referees they need to find out what works for them and what do not. to do this they need to make mistakes to learn from. Unfortunately at this level mistakes are high and thats the way it is. Us referees are not pros and we learn new things each game.

An observation I have made is that players only complain when a 'mistake' goes against them and not for them. Why is that??

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The red card for st Dom was Adam kellaway .. Have to agree this ref was awful . No control wanted to be centre of attention and nearly abandoned the game . The only red that was worthy was westlakes the other 3 were just laughable . The majority of the refs in this league are very good with exception of 2 I can think of and one of them we had today . Ecpl did you see all the cards ?

Not like Mr Potham to get a name wrong....

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Been away for a while, good to be back.

I wasn't at st Dominick v Bere Alston yesterday but I have read the comments above and all you have done is have a rant about a referee who was technically correct in Law.

Not one person has yet discussed getting managers and players together and telling them to stop swearing whether it be at another player, an assistant referee, a referee, a same team player, a spectator or passers by.

The referee is there to support the latest FA incentive to stamp out swearing and this will be advertised in the New Year so if you don't want your players sent off for swearing then you have to .........(drum roll) .................... Speak to your players and club officials and get them to stop doing it.

The first bad tackle that resulted in a red card was in the 15th minute so perhaps spare a thought for the man in black who also wanted to enjoy his football yesterday.

The referee will not perform at a quality higher than the football that has been played.

Rant over :-) happy New Year everybody !!!

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Once again a referee who gives his time up to let so called players have a game get slaughtered on here . so he shouldn`t of sent a player off for shouting F++k off that he must of heard from 40 yards away by the statement ECPL made , The use of offensive , abusive , insulting language at any one or shouting it out is a sending off offence . just because he does his job and doesn`t want teams to love him like some Refs do , he is the worst ref ever . A good Ref isn`t the one no one notices he is the one that does his job right not for marks or to be praised on here week in and week out by telling everyone how great they were and what a wonderful time they had and how lovely the teams were today as he didn`t have to show any cards , If you think the ref was poor then get off you moaning ways and do something about it and become a ref , then you can put up with your efforts being bitched about ,being told you were crap , belittled , demeaned , and generally slagging someone off , if you can`t be bothered to become a ref then shut up and think yourself lucky you had one today , plenty didn`t and I`m sure they would of liked a ref so they could play a game of football instead of shopping.

what referee comes on here praising thereselfs?? :thumbsup:

also why cant a referee come on here and give credit to the teams he had on that day. and not show any cards after all it is a forum :thumbsup:

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I gave it up because I wanted to carry on playing which I did for another six years. I never thought about going back to the whistle once I retired. I found it highly enjoyable because you were able to speak to players and interact with them. When I was wrong I put my hand up and said so unfortunately even then the powers to be some thirty odd years ago decided that my style of refereeing was not what they wanted so I went back to playing. Being on the other side I did learn to appreciate what the man in black had to deal with. I see so often these days a mistimed tackle is an automatic yellow card. Why? Is it a directive from above, if so is it the aim to cut out tackling altogether. I remember Neil Warnock saying referees know the rule book inside out but don't use their common sense (yes I know he has always been a referee hater). And he was relating to Mason. And why is it that Rodgers who is unusually quiet regarding referees also lambasted the same referee. Anyone who saw the match will realise what he was saying. But nothing is done to correct the mans faults. It seems as if it is a closed shop and referees are protected from within. We all know when it is a close call whether it is a foul or not or a corner is given when in fact it is a goal kick. These things happen and a player will react with a gesture or expletive. And is then cautioned. Is that the answer - I'M IN CHARGE attitude. How often these days do you see a referee who may or may not have made a mistake and a player gets annoyed run alongside him explain his situation and then get away from the player who is clearly aggrieved. But no, the referee has to stand and admonish the player in front of everyone and point to the four corners of the pitch as if that was where the offences occurred. And how often do you here people say IT WAS JUST A FOUL, but the referee must stop the game to give a lecture. respect is both ways and an autocratic man in black will never gain respect. I refer back to the referee at the St Dominick game. He was intent on arguing with players instead of saying what he felt and immediately move away from the situation. I'm sure this referee needs help, but is he getting it. Players must show self restraint as do managers. The Bere manager quite rightly was removed from the dugout because he wouldn't shut up. Instead of leading by example he let go a tirade of abuse Instead of encouraging his players to get on with the game. Being a referee who is having a bad day is one of the worst places to be because you are all alone. I hope the lad learns from yesterdays game and reflects upon himself as to how he could have reacted differently. I go back to Smithy who has a completely different attitude towards the game simply because he has man management skills. he knows what it is like from the other side having been a player himself. We must protect our men in black so that they don't make the same mistakes again. But is it being done.

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I`ve been reading this topic with some interest , not only as a Referee but as an assessor and mentor , It does strike me that if things go against a team i:e losing a game the easiest option is its the refs fault , I myself wasn`t at this game but I know the Referee quite well ( that is if it was the ref that was fixture to do the game ) and knowing him I would say if he felt the players deserved to be dismissed , then he did his job , As I said I wasn`t there so I can only surmise he did the right thing . No referee wants to send players off , but there are times when you have to do what you have to do , each referee is different they see and handle a game differently to each other . Experience has been brought up which is a good point , but you could of refereed at a high level but you will still make mistakes , the problem is that it stands out more . Would I as a referee at this game sent a player off if I was 40 yards away and clearly heard him say F&&K off, probably yes , would my old friend Martin Smith ( Lynx Affect) sent him off, again probably yes but he would of handle the situation differently from me, does that make me a bad referee ( NO ) does that make him a better referee ( NO ) . As referees we go out on a Saturday afternoon to be involved in a game of football , for fun , yes we have to put up with a certain amount of criticism and our parenthood disputed , but we turn up week after week . Yes we all know we make mistakes , ECPL to say the man in the middle are not allowed to make mistakes is a bit harsh , believe me we are human and to err is human . We each have a different outlook on life so we handle people in different ways, I myself will be very vocal during the game constantly talking to players keeping them informed of what is happening, but still doing my job this works for me , where Smithy will have a more pally approach similar to Al johns but this works for them . So we are all different in our ways . I`m sure there are plenty of teams who must think on a Saturday when I arrive oh crap we have him today, as this probably happens to most of us . We are liked by some and disliked by others . You give a penalty to one side and they love you 2 minutes later you award a penalty against them and your the worst thin g on the planet , ( that's a referees lots ) .

Give the man in the middle a break . he is human not some sort of divine being he will make errors but how many times when he plays that advantage and you score do you then say well done ref , how many times has a striker missed a sitter to draw or win a game and we as refs or his team mates spend all our Saturday night on here ripping into him . never to my knowledge .

Smithy I hope you had a great Christmas and happy new year :thumbsup::thumbsup: Al I`ve missed the last two weeks too mate we must be out of favour not like young Martin Happy new year Al good to see you back :P

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so if the ref was correct in his decision to send the players off for swearing by the laws given does that mean 95% of refs are doing it wrong because every game this season ive been at there is constant swearing and no action taken if its the letter of the law why are all the refs not taking action one ref does the rest don't who's wrong

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Swearing goes on in football due to mainly frustration none of it was directed to any official this ref was on a power trip and ruined a good game of football nothing dirty apart from the one decision he got right 2 sent off in the first 20 then sending people off from sideline then tried makin up for several errors by sending st Dom player off if u get sent of for being frustrated the game would be abandoned after ten mins

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Ex players need to take up the job of becoming a referee when they finish playing simple give the game somethimg back start at grass roots level.

Charlie, thats what I did and so did Smithythat is probably why u and smithy get decent reports

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