Foul language

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Football is mirroring the general attitude of youngsters/public today, I'll pretty much behave how I like, because, nothing is done about it.

Take the behaviour and language off the pitch and transfer it to a Saturday night in any high street, and there you have it.

The police can't control it, the courts can't control it, yet a referee is supposed too - don't think so.

The players, spectators and clubs don't control it, so what chance the man in black - he's just a punch bag and fall guy to many, give em a break and support them.

If I ever have a query with an official, I ask him respectfully afterwards, if he does not come in the bar, then I let it go - its only a game at this level.

C'mon you refs in my world.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

The only advice I would offer referee's is - don't forget your glasses.

[Leigh Cooper]

173 replies to the original posting and as I see it, still no agreement/resolution or consistency to use as a way forward. I agree with an awful lot from Voice from the past's first posting (Can I also say I think a lot of very good referees are 'retired' from the middle way too early by the F.A. but that's a debate for another day!) and I am certainly not here to knock the officials.

What does seem clear is that the majority of the people that have commented on here seem to want serious foul play and the constant use of foul and abusive language from players/management dealt with and that can only come down to the THREE officials on the pitch. If the referee's view was 'obstructed' but a player is left in a heap on the floor and his team mates are up in arms about what they have just seen there is a fair chance the assistant on that side would have seen exactly the same as the players. Why is there rarely consultation between the officials in instances like this? 3 officials in charge, helping each other has to be better than 1 in charge and the other 2 just doing as they have been instructed.

Yes, us managers can try to play a part in instilling dicipline into their players, but I would have no qualms if one of my lads was sent off for a two footed lunge/blatent use of the elbow etc etc or for constantly abusing an official. I have told numerous assistants to 'join in the game' and give what they see. If the 3 in black work as a team and agree a plan of action before the first whistle is blown which, hopefully, includes dealing with serious foul play and abuse perhaps, just perhaps, we might get back to talking about the football.

[Lafs]

Its quite simple for the officials to understand surely. Deal with constant abusive language and punish those who endanger players safety. And don't treat SOME certain clubs, managers or players any different to others like happens all too often at present. BUT most importantly for me, do it as a THREE and their lives will be easier. Rocket? Science? No, very very simple.

In return, all managers ensure they place a strict in house club policy that foul and abusive language towards officials will not be tolerated and all FA fines plus Club fines will be deducted from the individual at source.

Because let's be straight here, ALL senior level players receive some kind of expense/payment these days.

[B Manning]

Keith B, You are correct a referee will ask club assistants for ball in and out of play plus offsides , he should not ask for fouls on the field of play, I am sure you would not want a unqualified person giving fouls which could change the course of the game. An example from a game of mine, I finished giving my instructions and asked any questions, the reply was yes how would you like me to give penalties, need I say anymore.

[Leigh Cooper]

Do you "give your instructions" to qualified assistant referees Mr Manning and if so, can I ask, what are they? As one of the most vocal officials on here I would be very keen to hear. And believe me I say again I am not here bashing officials. I am just trying to learn and understand.

[B Manning]

Leigh, of course I give instructions to my assistants it`s how we work ( as a team) all referee`s vary I have been in the past with one referee who had 4 A4 sheets of instructions, needless to say mine are not that long. so i will attempt to put them down.

1- Decide who is senior, he will take the dugout side and deal with subs and dugouts if required.

2- Get them to run left full backs.

3- Ball in and out of play, their third is theirs, middle third we both do but I get first bite, farthest third is mine and they follow my indication. (because I will be nearest)

4- Offsides are theirs all game, they decide interfering , if I want to play on I will acknowledge them bearing in mind if I have cocked up I can always come back.

5- Corners, get into the best position to watch ball in and out of play plus watch the penalty area nearest them

6- Goalkick, watch ball placement if OK run up to the back defender, if you are doing that i know it`s OK for the kick.

7- Fouls on the field, give if as the referee you would stop the game, please give me an indication as to indirect free kick also try and let me know what it`s for. If it`s in front of you come on if needed to get the wall back 10 yards, i will not start until you are back in position, Penalty look to where I am if I am shouting play on and have seen the incident leave it to me

8- Both keep time senior watch me and add time on if necessary junior let your watch run.

9- Any problems try and handle yourself if not call me over and I will deal with it.

10- Match record, junior keep score, caution`s etc only the assistant who`s half it is in record player time etc, reason I do not want all three of us looking at our books I want one set of eyes on the game.

11- Goals if you are happy with a goal be running back to the halfway line, if not happy just stand your ground do not flag, then hopefully I can reach you before you are surrounded .

12- Mass brawl etc do not come onto the pitch I want you watching so at least we get the main offenders, Any fight I will not intervene, let them hit each other then hopefully they will not have any energy left for me when I try to sort it out.

phew there you go Leigh, I probably have missed some bits out but you should be able to get the idea, also.i maybe vocal on here but all I ever try to do is help.

[Leigh Cooper]

Thank you very much Mr Manning. I have know idea if I have shaken your hand at the end of a game at all in all these years but that seems a pretty reasonable template for all officials to follow other than point 7 possibly and there appears to be no reference to constant (and I keep using constant because I hear it week in week out from the same, few, players with big reputations) use of foul and abusive to all 3 officials.

Point 7 ..... In previous posts you have referred to only giving what you can see. Scenario ... If your view of a foul inside the box happened to be obscured and your assistant doesn't flag, because he is following your instructions (not sure how he can watch where you are and also the ball at the same time?) how many clear penalties are missed throughout the season. One thing Match of the Day and Sky Sports cleary show is how influential assistants are becoming week in week out in some of the major talking points of the game and in most instances they seem to be getting it right! That's because they are there to do a job, just the same as the man/woman in the middle, let them give things they see and take part in the game. The referee can always overule them but please lets all adopt the 3 teams on the pitch motto and all work together to get it right. It doesn't have to be difficult, lets just all do our jobs.

[B Manning]

Hi again Leigh, I did say for my assistants to deal with any problems and that includes Foul language if they cannot curtail it then they call me over and I "will" deal with it. As to a penalty one thing i failed to mention is good eye contact between us you can convey quite a lot by just that ie a question or a decision and I have to say my number 7 point has yet to fail me. if I failed to see something in the box the eye contact would tell my assistant I had seen nothing, if he had he would then flag.and believe me with good experienced officials it works, I am sure other referee`s will back me on that. Yes Leigh you have shaken my hand after a match several times, but as an assistant as age precludes me from officiating now at your level. I do hope you found it a sensible approach and it has helped you understand what goes on between the match officials but all referee`s are different so that will vary accordingly. I try to be light hearted and enjoy games so as we leave the changing room I say ,we will walk out together to the centre circle you then go and check the nets, let`s try and make it look like we know what we are doing, usually brings a smile.

[mrlaw18]

Is this topic still going on? It started last week and it seems we are just going around in circles!

Yes the language is a problem but, in my opinion, using the red card every time a 'foul and abusive' word is said is ,in most cases, not the way to go. In some situations the ref has no choice but to send the player but talking to the players, managing and educating the players etc is the best way to go.

Before going straight for the red card the ref should see the whole picture first and then punish accordingly and reasonably. Like I said the ref may not have a choice but to use the red.

If we use the red all the time then there is a potential for the ref to be too sensitive. I am sure the writers of LOAF did not intend for every player who uses 'foul and abusive' language to be sent off straight away.

This is just my opion

[isaac rosenberg]

Watched a Southern League South and West game today in which Cirencester Town unexpectedly beat Merthyr Town 4-1.

Great entertainment !

7 yellows, 3 reds, though it wasn't a dirty game. Very young referee, who was clearly being assessed. First red for two yellows. Fair enough. Second, for a player called Cornwall, for a kung fu kick. Fair enough.

Third sending off, reducing Merthyr to eight men, was for adjectival description of a referee's (wrong) decision in the 94th minute within hearing of linesman. Result: virtual riot of Merthyr supporters, bilingual abuse and, at one stage, a prospect of a pitch walk-off. Yet ironically, the game had been full of swearing from the first whistle and the draconian approach of the referee accentuated rather than diminishing it. I was attacked by a mad Welshwoman for laughing at the absurdity of the whole circus. Ciren Town is not usually the most atmospheric of grounds but today the referee certainly increased tension, drama and excitement......he was so much the star of the show that nobody after the game was talking about anybody else.

Is this the game we want ? I have a feeling that if the anti-swearing hardliners had their way, it would be the norm.

C'est maginfique,mais ce n'est pas le football !

[mrlaw18]

I agree Mr Rosenberg this sort of thing is bound to happen is the 'letter' of the law is applied each time. Law is prescriptive and acts as a guide. The object of the law is more important than the letter. When was the last time a ref gave an indirect free kick when the keeper kept hold of the ball for more than 6 seconds? The rule came in to stop the keeper legally delaying the restart of the game. Discretion and common sense should prevail. The game is not about us refs and we should do the least which is necessary.

[Crusty]

A lot of the posters on here are saying it's a result of society outside of the game, and that has to be tackled first. That in my opinion is rubbish. There are many sports around the globe that have a no tolerance policy if aimed at officials, for example rugby and basketball just to name a couple. So why can these set of players abide by these simple rules or face being put in the sin bin/evicted from the game, but footballers fail to do so week in week out ?. At the end of the day, it starts from the top, if local referees see PRO officials taking a stand to clamp down on this then they will follow suit and start acting themselves as they will now see fit to do so. Untill that day comes, this will forever be a talking point and the players with big reputation's will constantly get away with murder every week. Something drastic needs to happen that's for sure. If it takes sending 5 people off in a game just to change the mentality of players then so be it.

[shots]

back to one of my original points - the refs have to have the courage to do it. When they do, i'm sure they will get the backing and respect of every decent individual in football. they will get my backing for sure.

[B Manning]

shots, I have the courage and have done it but I can assure you, you do not get the backing and respect of the team involved, all you get is grief.

[PUGWASH]

Rules are rules , foul and abusive language towards an official = red card.

[isaac rosenberg]

Unlike Mr Law18, Cap'n Pugwash, behind the truism, clearly has no understanding of the distinction between actus reus and mens rea .

Padstow was where they used to dance on the quay as a tribute to their past contributions to slavery, I understand.......

[Topper]

I believe the higher the level the worse the language becomes. Certainly in the Duchy League most of the scenarios quoted on this thread would result in a red card certainly from me in any case. Running the line in higher leagues I have witnessed referees tolerate disgusting language and appallingly aggressive body language from players.

Why do referees of a higher level tolerate such abuse, it has meant that I for one have no interest in officiating higher than junior football.

Any thoughts?

[PUGWASH]

Unlike Mr Law18, Cap'n Pugwash, behind the truism, clearly has no understanding of the distinction between actus reus and mens rea .

Padstow was where they used to dance on the quay as a tribute to their past contributions to slavery, I understand.......

Ah yes .......... those were the days.

We just celebrate OBBY OSS and the few black up day ( a little contraversial may I add ).