Foul language

[hoppit]

Could someone tell me if foul language is no longer an offence in soccer. Last night I watched a very entertaining game between Bodmin and Camelford in the Throgmorton Cup which Bodmin won 3 1. In the first half there was a 50 50 challenge after which the Bodmin player was injured, after receiving treatment his words to the referee were so bad that I can't print it in full but I will do my best. At the time the ref was about 2 meters away." You F***ing t**t you aren't giving us f**k all you t**t". When I was a ref this would have been a standard red card. In this instance the ref just gave the player a warning could someone explain this to me please. Also there was constant bad language coming from the Bodmin dugout where the "F" word was used at regular intervals in a loud and aggressive manner directly at the match officials, the only outcome was a ticking off in about the 88th minute. Also 2 tackles from behind and a punch thrown all went unpunished. How things have changed since I stopped reffing 6 years ago.

[The Villains]

Until referees apply the full laws of the game, teams will keep doing it and getting away with it. If a team ends up with players being sent off every game so be it. Club and not just players should be fined for constant abuse of match officials. Club officials should be accountable for their players actions.

[B Manning]

It would also have been a straight red from me before he even had finished talking, recently I had a player use foul language straight to me, I showed the red card straight away, but guess what It was me who got it wrong and I ruined the game and I would bet my marks were basic minimum so as not to send in a report about me. But reading other threads about shortage of officials, is there any wonder!. Also reference the Bodmin game, if it is as stated then that referee needs to take a good look at his performance and start applying the LOAF.

[cornish brazilian]

Totally agree with the above. We (nearly) all use bad language from time to time but most of us manage to control when and how we do so.

It's not just the language, as hoppit describes, but the overly-aggressive manner of many players and more importantly those on the bench which is so disappointing. Enthusiasm, passion (an over-used word in my opinion) and competitive spirit are all fine and to be lauded but too many cross the line too often.

Perhaps an approach to league officials might be tried, or tried again, to rid the local game of this curse or at least reduce the instances of it?

[Soccer Follower]

The referee shortage doesn't impact at this level though,these teams will always have match officials to berate.It's the lower level of football where the shortage is felt.

Perhaps if teams at this level were denied match officials for a week or two,their behaviour may improve.

[B Manning]

I can hear the screams from here Nigel, catch you soon .

[Home Waters]

The problem is refs at a much higher level do nothing - you can see it on tv each week - its obvious what players are saying - if local refs feel strong about it then take it up with your association - until you get together it will never be sorted. The argument that the premier league has its own rules should not be an argument.

[pastyman]

Before we "tar" all the Bodmin Town bench with "the same brush", let's be clear where the majority of the foul language emanates from, the Manager of Bodmin Town. He has been allowed to use foul and intimidating language for far too long. One has to question, why?

The assistant Manager of Bodmin Town, Ronnie Swiggs, always conducts himself in a professional manner and I can't recall hearing him even swear.

When I go to local football matches, I for one, don't want to hear foul and abusive language from players or managers/coaches and thankfully the majority know how to conduct themselves. But feel the people in power need to find necessary to punish those guilty of foul and intimidating language to officials.

[green&whitebarmyarmy]

As a player I was very surprised at the leniency shown. It was maybe helped by the ref obviously knowing the player/s well as he was calling them by a nickname.

[The Villains]

I don't think you can blame associations for refs not applying LOAF, it's there in black and white, they have given the ref authority to deal with it. The refs must now, apply the correct rules.

[Bruegel the Elder]

There is a depressing shortage of members, particularly players and management, agreeing with the sentiments on this thread.

I'll be generous and assume that they're all knackered after a hard afternoons footie. I'm sure that they'll all be posting positive comments before the day's out!

[predator]

Get the decision right and players won't

Moan easyyyy

[B Manning]

predator, it would seem you do not have a clue, players/club officials moan and whinge even if you have made the correct decision.

[Dave Deacon]

Difficult for the ref to get it right when both sets of players are shouting for the decision!

[predator]

Referees in this league are poor . Very poor ! Yeh I feel sorry for refs but if there consistent it won't be so much shouting

[Anita]

Referees in this league are poor . Very poor ! Yeh I feel sorry for refs but if there consistent it won't be so much shouting

I take it you'll be taking up the offer from the ccfa for the cheap refs course.

[Bruegel the Elder]

Regrettably Predator, you're part of the problem not the solution, and please don't take up the Referee training offer, I'm not sure that you're the type we want in the middle.

[Savo]

On a refreshing note the Newquay v Goonhavern game was referred to a GoI'd standard with the ref trying to play advantage where possible, both linesman made mistakes but were not berrated fit the decisions, and yes there was the odd bit of bad language, but nothing directed towards the official, although I can't here everything from the home dugout. A game played in the right spirits really hope the goonhavern boys can turn their season around, a nice club and a good bunch of lads.

[Premier Sixes]

I have seen so many players sent off at Duchy level for swearing. I even had one of my own players sent off for swearing at me during a game by the ref. I have watched a few peninsula games this season and it is a completley different world.

[fenman]

One of the things you have to consider as well in these modern times is the complaints from nearby residents , particulary in the lower leagues . People today complain about almost anything , somethings understandingly so .In recent years local residents have successfuly closed down motor racing circuits , even though they moved there knowing that they exisited , stopped cricket teams from playing because of the balls going in their gardens atc. etc . I know many of you will argue that this has nothing to do with football , but it has . How long before householders complain about the bad language that is screamed out across football pitches and successfully get the pitch closed down ?.

[PAciFiC]

Pastyman - why do you dislike Bodmin Town and in particular, their manager so? Is it because they always get the better of your team? Making statements like you do about individuals whilst hiding behind your pseudonym isn't the bravest thing to do, is it? You may say that I hide behind my pseudonym, but I don't name names in an attempt to belittle someone.

[pastyman]

Pastyman - why do you dislike Bodmin Town and in particular, their manager so? Is it because they always get the better of your team? Making statements like you do about individuals whilst hiding behind your pseudonym isn't the bravest thing to do, is it? You may say that I hide behind my pseudonym, but I don't name names in an attempt to belittle someone.

Ok PAciFiC, what have I said to make to come to the assumption I dislike Bodmin Town? Read my post. Have I not complimented the assistant manager, Ronnie Swiggs or didn't you read that?

Incidentally, I did not start this subject, HOPPIT did, I merely followed up his post. Also, where did I name names? Isn't it bit of a "sweeping statement" to say that Bodmin Town always get the better of Saltash United!

Can I make the assumption you are connected with Bodmin Town PAciFiC? Or is it that you find foul and abusive language to officials acceptable?

[mrlaw18]

Yes foul language is never nice to hear however old or what you are. Its part of everyday language and people are so use to saying it that they sometimes don't realize they are saying it. Foul language should be dealt with in a reasonable manner within the circumstances of the situation in question.

[PUGWASH]

Absolute rubbish. Refs have guidelines for foul and abusive language. Use them for god sake.

What ever happened to the respect campaign ? There is no need for a player or team coach to swear at an official surely.

Most times when officials are swore at it is in an aggressive manner. No need for this at all.

Homewaters , forget what professional refs do , rules are rules and if you are a ref and someone aggressively swears at you send him off.

As for MR.Manning and my marks will be low. Tough. You know how good or bad you have done and if you get a low mark in a game where you have sent someone off for swearing , it would be expected.

It can not be about marks , you either want to ref or not.

Man up refssssssssssssss

[Home Waters]

You cannot really forget what professional refs do - millions of people watch them through today's electronic world - when junior players new senior players and indeed any player sees quite clearly that someone has sworn at the ref (more often the assistant) and he does nothing about it - you cannot blame them for thinking it is a minor offence which goes unpunished.

The point about the Referees Association was that if local refs feel that the pro ones are not really helping by taking no action, the RA has a voice in leagues and the FA and has considerable influence on the game.

[isaac rosenberg]

As a linguist by training, how this obsessive flannel about swearing irritates me. There are so many things in the game far more needful of FA action. This is yet another attempt to take the game away from its male working class roots and to attract the cash of the pseudo-respectable. The male working class have lost everything else thanks to the politics of quislings and class enemies: why not take their game as well ?

Like Macbeth's porter, I can "swear in either scale against either scale". If you don't agree with me, by all means tell me to f*** off and stop being such a t***.

Some referees are also misbegotten procreating anatomically challenged offspring of perdition, just like me, no doubt. Why should they be any more sensitive about it than me ?

Ridiculous fuss about nothing ! Man up !

[Bruegel the Elder]

As a linguist by training, how this obsessive flannel about swearing irritates me. There are so many things in the game far more needful of FA action. This is yet another attempt to take the game away from its male working class roots and to attract the cash of the pseudo-respectable. The male working class have lost everything else thanks to the politics of quislings and class enemies: why not take their game as well ?

Like Macbeth's porter, I can "swear in either scale against either scale". If you don't agree with me, by all means tell me to f*** off and stop being such a t***.

Some referees are also misbegotten procreating anatomically challenged offspring of perdition, just like me, no doubt. Why should they be any more sensitive about it than me ?

Ridiculous fuss about nothing ! Man up !

As a linguist young Isaac you will well know that it is not alone the words, but the venom with which they spew forth. The offence is in the intent as much as the content.

A problem that I am sure causes great vexation to all at the Ladies Collage, or would it be the Gentleman's Club of Honorary Qualifications?

[PUGWASH]

As a linguist by training, how this obsessive flannel about swearing irritates me. There are so many things in the game far more needful of FA action. This is yet another attempt to take the game away from its male working class roots and to attract the cash of the pseudo-respectable. The male working class have lost everything else thanks to the politics of quislings and class enemies: why not take their game as well ?

Like Macbeth's porter, I can "swear in either scale against either scale". If you don't agree with me, by all means tell me to f*** off and stop being such a t***.

Some referees are also misbegotten procreating anatomically challenged offspring of perdition, just like me, no doubt. Why should they be any more sensitive about it than me ?

Ridiculous fuss about nothing ! Man up !

So you are saying that the following statement is acceptable ?

At the time the ref was about 2 meters away." You F***ing t**t you aren't giving us f**k all you t**t".

If you were to speak to me in this manner and in an agressive way , I would put you on your ass !

Not acceptable at all. Got nothing to do with manning up.

[B Manning]

Pugwash, I have never referee`d for marks and never will , my point was that as a referee you cannot win and never will when people are dishonest enough to think they are getting back at the ref by giving low marks. All I have ever done is to ask that I am marked honestly but sometimes that does not happen. As I said it matters not too me what marks I am given but ! for a referee hoping to climb the ladder it could make a difference, hence referee`s at a higher level may be inclined to turn a blind eye so to speak.

[PUGWASH]

Here , here that man.

[fenman]

Language , theres a subject to debate for weeks . In these modern advanced times many peoples language and grammar seems to be restricted to a few swear words , " fantastic ", "wow ", "guys " like " " amazing " and " unbelievable " If the government were to tax these words useage the country would be back in the black but unfortunatly many , mostly celebrities and media presenters , would be speechless .

[fenman]

"Advanced times " was tongue in cheek .I've been told many times that I should drag myself into the 21st century .Why ? whats it got going for it ? . Some things are progress but generally we seem to be going backward in most things , but that's another debate and nothing to do with football .

[PUGWASH]

Perhaps we are getting the foul language mixed up with the aggression it said with ?

I am not a prude , but if someone using foul language in a day to day conversation , you just accept it. However , if someone confronts you aggressively swearing it is a diffeent matter !

[mrlaw18]

What if the player had a good reason to be angry? As a referee there are times when I do not get the full picture and I may miss an incident which angers a player. Is it right I punish that player for being aggressive because I did not get all the facts? Man management should be attempted first but like I said other posts there is a point when sanctions are required.

I may sound that I don't think we have a problem regarding this subject, I do think there is, but we need to just at least try and attempt to deal with it by managing the situation before showing the plastic. If the players then choose not to listen then that's their problem and then they will get what's coming to them.

[B Manning]

No player has a good reason to be angry with the referee, by stepping onto the field of play he has agreed to abide by that referee`s (arbiter) decisions and as such should be in control of his actions whether verbal or physical. As I have stated no player will tell me to **** off without me using the red card sanction and no amount of man management skills can help in that situation, if you do not take the appropriate action then you are in danger of losing control/respect because as sure as hell if a player gets away with it once he will consider that is was ok to behave in that manner. Now I do actually speak from lots of experience and believe that if referee`s did the correct thing then maybe we will stop what is gradually becoming more prevalent in our game.

[PUGWASH]

You can be angry or annoyed , without confronting the ref in an aggressive manner.

[mrlaw18]

even when it is said out of frustration Mr. Manning? I believe if a ref talks to players more than useing the cards then the relationship between the two roles will improve. You will still get the village idiots who think they are it and the ref has not choice but to use the cards but im my experience, and I am an experience referee, referees need to look at the whole picture and see things objectively rather than subjectively.

for example, Player A comes in late with a reckless tackle from behind player B. Player B gets up and pushes player A and calls him a 'King idiot' (or worse). The referee yellows player A (no question about that) but does the referee send the player off for using foul language at player A? The question I ask is would I have acted in the same way? I think most of us would not be happy if this challenge happened to us so its safe to say yes I would probably act in the same way. But this does not make the actions of player B correct. This is what I mean by managing the situation. In this case I would probably lecture player B about his future conduct and maybe caution him for his aggressive behavior. I would not send him off because I would argue he would not have said it but for the reckless challenge from another player.

[baldy]

Now I do actually speak from lots of experience and believe that if referee`s did the correct thing then maybe we will stop what is gradually becoming more prevalent in our game.

So are you saying that lots of referees do not do the right thing? I know they don't, at all levels of the game, and if Rooney etc get away with it on TV how can you expect players at all lower levels to abide or not to complain when the ref occasionally does the right thing and send the player off.

[B Manning]

mrlaw18, forgive me but I was under the impression we were talking about a player getting angry with the referee and telling him to **** off.not some what if and maybe scenario.

[hoppit]

even when it is said out of frustration Mr. Manning? I believe if a ref talks to players more than useing the cards then the relationship between the two roles will improve. You will still get the village idiots who think they are it and the ref has not choice but to use the cards but im my experience, and I am an experience referee, referees need to look at the whole picture and see things objectively rather than subjectively.

for example, Player A comes in late with a reckless tackle from behind player B. Player B gets up and pushes player A and calls him a 'King idiot' (or worse). The referee yellows player A (no question about that) but does the referee send the player off for using foul language at player A? The question I ask is would I have acted in the same way? I think most of us would not be happy if this challenge happened to us so its safe to say yes I would probably act in the same way. But this does not make the actions of player B correct. This is what I mean by managing the situation. In this case I would probably lecture player B about his future conduct and maybe caution him for his aggressive behavior. I would not send him off because I would argue he would not have said it but for the reckless challenge from another player.

In the incident that I referred to at the top of the page no foul was committed just a clean 50 50 challenge which he came off second best, the other player was also slightly injured but said absolutely nothing. To be honest the attitude of some of his team mates and his manager was a disgrace and in my opinion has no place in any walk of life.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

When I was playing, back in the jurassic period, we would know what you could and could not do with certain refs. Today, the lack of self control from the majority of players is bordering on insanity, over what is - A GAME.

[isaac rosenberg]

Agree with mrlaw18 about man-management. Keith, the Good Book advises that "Anger resteth in the bosom of fools" , which I interpret as supportive to expressing rather than repressing the feeling. I agree with you that it is better to try to make things better than to remain inactive, but really don't think swearing is a particularly important moral cause compared to wealth redistribution, equality of opportunity or getting rid of John Roberts. As for Cap'n Pugwash's hypothetical offer to put me on my "ass" (is that swearing?) I'm glad to report that I spend much of my life sitting quite happily on it anyway.

We spend too much time worrying about the status, self-importance and pomposity of referees. They should behave as unassuming servants of the game, facilitating public entertainment and being paid for doing so, on the Downton Abbey model. It is not necessary for every arbiter to behave arbitrarily.

Clubs pay them. Simple solution. If they cost your club unnecessary money by throwing cards around, mark them down. The more they behave like lackeys of the CCFA, the fewer marks they get.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

A few bombs in there Isaac ....naughty.

[Bruegel the Elder]

Oh Isaac, you question much but answer little. A side effect of your trade I fear. You wordsmiths are all the same, I remember young Will Shakespeare when he was a lad, much the same, bless him, and he came to nought!

[The Villains]

Agree with mrlaw18 about man-management. Keith, the Good Book advises that "Anger resteth in the bosom of fools" , which I interpret as supportive to expressing rather than repressing the feeling. I agree with you that it is better to try to make things better than to remain inactive, but really don't think swearing is a particularly important moral cause compared to wealth redistribution, equality of opportunity or getting rid of John Roberts. As for Cap'n Pugwash's hypothetical offer to put me on my "ass" (is that swearing?) I'm glad to report that I spend much of my life sitting quite happily on it anyway.

We spend too much time worrying about the status, self-importance and pomposity of referees. They should behave as unassuming servants of the game, facilitating public entertainment and being paid for doing so, on the Downton Abbey model. It is not necessary for every arbiter to behave arbitrarily.

Clubs pay them. Simple solution. If they cost your club unnecessary money by throwing cards around, mark them down. The more they behave like lackeys of the CCFA, the fewer marks they get.

Should have stayed sitting on your backside, then the rubbish you have just quoted would not have been heard! The club pay expenses, not a bung, so the ref can see off the visiting team. The ref is not on any ones side, just there so the game can take place. No ref = No game

[PUGWASH]

Well said Villains.

[shots]

Referees seem to be reluctant to control swearing by players and team officials. Some clubs are far worse than others - they know who they are - and as long as they think that they are benefiting by this, then they will continue to do so. Once referees are seen to being trying to control this and are backed up by the relevant FAs they will, I'm sure, receive support from most people in the game.

Referees at lower levels seem to use cards to control 'foul & abusive' more than those at this level.

Only my opinion, but I'm fed up seeing and hearing clubs constantly abusing officials, and I'm no great fan of the way referees perform in this league!

[Sheikh Mansour]

Until a new emphasis/ directive is put in place meaning that any player who does it always gets the same punishment (a red card) it will never stop, if this was ever introduced this would make for a very interesting season or two as players started to adapt to it (or failed to initially!). Surely after this initial strange period things would improve? As long as referee's were able not to gloat at players and just state that they gave what they saw, ''if it was a mistake apologies but I must of missed it!'' rather than arguing that they were always right. I think it is a case of when this happens not if, just needs a catalyst to start he process going. We shall see..................

[Outsider]

Another thing that gets me is seeing a player bend down to adjust his socks when the Ref is talking to him about an infringement. How disrespectful can they get, and why doesn't the Ref tell him to stand up when he is talking to him?

[B Manning]

Outsider, if a player does that to me the next thing he see`s after his sock/lace is a nice yellow card for dissent. I also do not care if he is angry and misunderstood.