Referee standards....

[Veteran Skipper]

Since when does getting headbutted and punched mean you deserve a yellow card??

Also, the perpetrator of the incident gets a yellow card.

This happened in front of the referee, so just wondering what kind of ' fit for purpose ' tests do these referees go through.

Its pointless appealling to the FA as no video evidence is available.

If this happened in the street, the Police would be involved.

Probably just as well the perp punched like a 5year old. Im also wondering if he can get help for his ' short man syndrome ' ??

[mrlaw18]

head butting/punching or even attempted head butting/punching is a straght red card for violent conduct.

I had yellowed a player for aggressive behaviour for pushing player. I was being assessed and the assesser said he should have got the red card because 'he had raised his hands'. Yes he raised his hands but it was not done in a violent way. To be violent the consequence must cause, or a high risk of causing, injury.

[Veteran Skipper]

Ive been playing football along time, and have always known that was the case to be honest mrlaw18.

Now, this referee has seen the headbutt and punch, called us both over and told us both not to do it again.... bearing in mind I had done nothing except put my hands behind my back.... then because the other player was mouthing off, he calls us both over again and gives us yellow cards...??

The ref even opologised to me at half time for booking me..... ?? I ask why he booked me in the first place and he just laughed and muttered something about wanting to keep 11 players from both teams on the pitch!!

Now, I know referees ask for respect, but on this occassion I fail to see how this is going to happen when he doesnt even uphold the laws of the game.

[mrlaw18]

If this is the case then it sounds like the ref is wrong and he knew he was. This is not giving the cornish referee profession a good name. If he wanted to keep all the players on the pitch then he at least should have yellow carded the perpetrater (do him for something rather than nothing at all).

report him to the FA with witness statements and ask for feedback. I dont like sending players off for the sake of sending players off but when players assault other players then there is no option but to send them off.

[Veteran Skipper]

Thats a good idea..... there were plenty of people there that saw what happened.

Thank you mrlaw

[Guest Monty]

Mr Skipper,

This is exactly the situation i as a referee find myself constantly banging my head off a brick wall, If your incident is correct thenm the Referee would of had no choice in red carding the offender? the Referee would of gained more respect in actually having got the laws correct, The laws are there for the Referee to use and if they dont use them correctly or sensibly then they in my opinion the would be better off not refereeing because it has an impact of reputation on all match officials across the county. Also in one of your replies Mr Skipper Quote " I know referees ask for respect, but on this occassion I fail to see how this is going to happen when he doesnt even uphold the laws of the game" Exactly the point on how to start by gaining respect( By getting the laws correct) and a Referee should not in no way on or off the pitch ask for RESPECT. These views are mine personally.

[Club_capt]

I just wish ref's were stronger and would send more players off...I witness some appauling things go unpunished. I even witnessed an awful tackle which led to a double fracture. Ref didn't send the card in! Yet players get carded for bad language and stay on the field after a head butt or a leg breaker. It's a constant gripe.

I think ref's need to be stronger and if you are assaulted on the pitch call the police. A few seasons of a hardline approach and clubs and players would soon sort themselves out. It also needs the club to set its stall out on what it will and will not tolerate. A solid and adhered to club/players charter should be implemented at all clubs.

It's not just down to the ref's its a problem for clubs and players as well.

[Ashes17]

I ve been banned for five games and £50 fine for calling a ref a f*****g p***k, yes I was out of order but he turned up at the start of the game and said to me if anyone ruins today it will be me how can a ref say that,than put in his report I called him a c**t and I get that punishment I admitted to what I said not to his lies its a joke in my eyes but hey the refs have a summer ball to pay for I suppose but my point is telling the truth gets u no where the FA always have and always will side with refs, but most refs have been great this season just the old few who go on power trips

[Pidgeon]

There are plenty of crap refs, just like there are crap managers, crap players and very crap linesman in this level of football. And that isn't ever likely to change. They do a good job which too many criticise without ever having reffed a game themselves.

I always think on average, refs throughout each step of football are one step behind the level they should be, due to the shortage of refs. Basically they'll take anyone for the lowest football standard and then refs improve slightly up each step but fall short of matching the standard of football.

But its just part of the game. You have to accept it and move on to next week. Is it really worth getting yourself in trouble for and costing you money? Its only a game at the end of day. There are way more important things in life than whinging about referees.

[peggy78]

There are plenty of crap refs, just like there are crap managers, crap players and very crap linesman in this level of football. And that isn't ever likely to change. They do a good job which too many criticise without ever having reffed a game themselves.

I always think on average, refs throughout each step of football are one step behind the level they should be, due to the shortage of refs. Basically they'll take anyone for the lowest football standard and then refs improve slightly up each step but fall short of matching the standard of football.

But its just part of the game. You have to accept it and move on to next week. Is it really worth getting yourself in trouble for and costing you money? Its only a game at the end of day. There are way more important things in life than whinging about referees.

Of the ref's that we've had in Trelawny 2 this year, some have been excellent, some haven't been great but on the whole they are doing what they can to the best of their ability. What i fully respect is the fact that they are willing (yes, for a small fee) to turn up officiate 90 minutes in all weathers and put up with torrents of abuse and complaints throughout the duration of the match. Without them, there would be no game and while there is a shortage of referees criticising them as a group is not exactly going to encourage more to take up the whistle.

[bighairydave]

I ve been banned for five games and £50 fine for calling a ref a f*****g p***k, yes I was out of order but he turned up at the start of the game and said to me if anyone ruins today it will be me how can a ref say that,than put in his report I called him a c**t and I get that punishment I admitted to what I said not to his lies its a joke in my eyes but hey the refs have a summer ball to pay for I suppose but my point is telling the truth gets u no where the FA always have and always will side with refs, but most refs have been great this season just the old few who go on power trips

Where was my invite for the ref's summer ball then!?

[Anita]

I ve been banned for five games and £50 fine for calling a ref a f*****g p***k, yes I was out of order but he turned up at the start of the game and said to me if anyone ruins today it will be me how can a ref say that,than put in his report I called him a c**t and I get that punishment I admitted to what I said not to his lies its a joke in my eyes but hey the refs have a summer ball to pay for I suppose but my point is telling the truth gets u no where the FA always have and always will side with refs, but most refs have been great this season just the old few who go on power trips

Where was my invite for the ref's summer ball then!?

The same place as mine ;)

[Ashes17]

I ve been banned for five games and £50 fine for calling a ref a f*****g p***k, yes I was out of order but he turned up at the start of the game and said to me if anyone ruins today it will be me how can a ref say that,than put in his report I called him a c**t and I get that punishment I admitted to what I said not to his lies its a joke in my eyes but hey the refs have a summer ball to pay for I suppose but my point is telling the truth gets u no where the FA always have and always will side with refs, but most refs have been great this season just the old few who go on power trips

Where was my invite for the ref's summer ball then!? The same place as mine

[leathalleft]

Would like to be informed by a ref on there opinion on the off side rule st merryn had a free kick in cup final against padstow which padstow had two defenders on the line free kick was taken and hit straight at goalie striker was standing seven yards out and ball bounced straight to him which he then put in back the net lineman ruled it off side as he said both defenders was behind the goal line should that goal not stand in the rules as players are not allowed to leave the field of play with out ref approval... Us st merryn team feel really hard done by and think it was down to the official being to cold and didn't fancy the extra 30 mins play as the weather was to extreme

[Cornish Hoop]

After a few years out of the game and now very much in the twilight of my career at 42 Im finding he standard of refs a lot higher than lets say in the late 90s early 00 s,well done you men in black keep up the good work!

[mrlaw18]

leathalleft....this goal should stand. For the purpose of the offside rule the offside line is extended to were the second to last defender is standing irrespective if this actualy being on the field of play. This includes when a palyer slides off the pitch under their own momentum. This stops defenders just stepping off the field of play to engage the offside rule (form of cheating). If the player leaves the pitch because of injury etc. and its obvious he is no longer taking part in the game at that point then you can argue the offside line extends to the next second to last defender. Hope this helps.

To be honest the offside rule is not a difficult rule to understand (although its a skill to get right). Because there is so much to the rule people just over-complicates it.

[leathalleft]

Yeah I knew the goal should of stood was just wondering how three qualified refs reffing a cup final didn't no the rules and due to there lack of incompetents ruin a good cup final. I honestly think it was because of the weather being so bad they didn't want to play 30 mins extra time so they made there own rules up I'm so gutted as there were over 350 supporters there. Our team hired a coach people took time off work to come watch a final and something happens like that its sad. Ref Gary Cornish Lino Steve tootle it would be nice to have a formal apology from them to the football club of st merryn don't think they realised how much something like this Ment to this club specially as it was against away derby team padstow.

[stevieb]

have read the post on the state of ref today they are no better or worse than a few years back .but how many ex players take up the whistle or flag to put something back into the game ? not many ,all players have good games or bad ones but do your supporters give them 90 mins of abuse like a lot of refs have to put up with ? from players and fans ,come on guys there are some very good refs out there some not so good but would you give up your football to ref a game if they dont start turning up ?as a club linesman myself have had to put up with alsorts of abuse from being called a cheat to the c word and at times i have wanted to pack it in as i do it for free as it supports my club ,remember guys a lot of you lads are very quick and us old timers cant always keep up,and how many times do players con the ref with their falling over and crying out if they have been shot ? refs are human like us all so guys instead of getting on their case and moaning on this forum [which we are all entitled to] have a thought the next time you play have you done your best today or is it easy to blame the ref for your own short comings

[Trudgiano]

I agree with 'club captain' I played on Wednesday for meva vs st coloumb and some player came through the back of me which I thought was two footed. I said to the ref its a tackle from behind which he has two footed me the ref replied he won the ball I said that makes no difference if he's won the ball or not he came thru the back and he's two footed me. the ref said yeah but he won the ball and if I said anymore I will cost me money.

The problem is the that some refs don't really know the rules and if you question the decision they say shut up or il book you.

[mrlaw18]

trudiano.....its not not knowing the rules which is the problem its applying them to real situations. If what you said it was a two footed tackle from behind then yes he should have walked irrespective if he won the ball or not. The FA wants that type of tackle outlawed because of the potential of season/career ending injuries. Also its HOW he got the ball is more important than WINNING the ball. The player may have got the ball first but the way he got it may have dangered the other player. Like I said before applying the laws is the skill rather than knowing them. Most players do not even know the laws of the game they are playering. I once asked a player, who's been in the game for decades, how many laws are there and he answered 'oh hundreds!' Referees are arbitrators which means the decisions we make are based on what we believe to be the correct decision given the facts presented to us. We are not saying all our decisions correct (although thats are aim) or that they are wrong but what we believe to be correct.

[BryJayLew]

On the flip side to refereeing standards I had the pleasure of officiating the Gunnislake v Pensilva game on Wednesday evening! Both teams were a credit to their respective managers and maybe this is where some of the problems lie???? Not saying all Referees are good or bad, but perhaps its the way some players treat the Ref that makes one or two question themselves during the game. A lot of leeway can be had by both the teams and the referee being able to talk to each other during the game and actually enjoying the 90 minutes!! I will say it again for the record a massive well done to Gunni and Pensilva for doing things the right way

[Trudgiano]

well said mrlaw18 totally agree

[Club_capt]

I do think some of the ref's are quite clueless on the Laws of the Game and go along with some of the silly myths such as giving freekicks for saying "my ball". Actually the amount of times I've heard ref's give freekicks for this is a wind up! Do the ref's get tested on LotG every few years? Would be useful if they did.

[B Manning]

Club_capt, actually it`s not as straightforward as you seem to state, in itself claiming "my ball" is not an offence, it becomes an offence as with any other call or loud noise made with the intention of putting off an opponent, it is then treated as unsporting conduct. But most players think it`s an offence and the amount of times I am screamed at to give a free kick for it is quite considerable.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Nothing wrong with referee's...its the donkey's playing the game who think they're better than they are.

[peggy78]

Club_capt, actually it`s not as straightforward as you seem to state, in itself claiming "my ball" is not an offence, it becomes an offence as with any other call or loud noise made with the intention of putting off an opponent, it is then treated as unsporting conduct. But most players think it`s an offence and the amount of times I am screamed at to give a free kick for it is quite considerable.

Does this include "I got"?

[bighairydave]

Peggy if, in the opinion of the REFEREE, this was to distract an opponent then yes. If the referee thinks it wasn't then a nice polite 'Put your name on that pal' should clear things up.

[Tom Blewett]

Will you lot stop going on about refs without them none of us Will have a Saturday too look forward too will all have too go shopping with the misses

[stokefan1]

some refs we like, some we dont it doesnt matter one bit, paul murphy gives us one we have to deal with it he or she is there too do a job and means we get to play, personally if i could get nigel nicholls, nigel jewell or porky every week i would love it! but aint the way it goes,

no offence to other refs just guys i named had a lot and always got on well as communicate with players superbly and actually allow something called a tackle and plus porky likes decent drink

[Ashes17]

We are allowed to have an opinion and my point was the ref we had wrote aload of crap in his report and I get the punishment like I state I admitted to what I said and still lose but he never admitted to saying I will ruining this game and telling our skipper to stick his flags up his cunting ass when he left and the skipper went after him to return his flags so if a ref like that is going to turn up on a sat I would rather not play

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Will you lot stop going on about refs without them none of us Will have a Saturday too look forward too will all have too go shopping with the misses

And some will even have to go out with the missus.

[Veteran Skipper]

Nothing wrong with referee's...its the donkey's playing the game who think they're better than they are.

Doesnt matter how good someone thinks they are, getting headbutt and punched in front of the referee should be a straight red card for the prep, not a yellow card for each player.

This referee was happy enough to not send this thug off because he wanted to keep 11 players on the pitch for each team and not have the paperwork to do, yet was happy enough to yellow card me for having the audacity of being headbutt and punched because the perp was still gobbing off at me.

Lets hope now that it has transpired that the opposing team knowingly played unregistered ringers for this game, which they have admitted to ( hard to deny it when we have photographs of thee players on the day playing ) , get points deducted and fined for cheating. No wonder they wanted to kick off at 6-30pm on a saturday hey!!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

That is a no no vet skipper....don't agree with the ref on that one. Don't tar them all with the same brush though.

Best of luck with your case.

[Veteran Skipper]

Thankfully Im old enough and wise enough now to realise not everyone is the same, and do treat people on an individuals. We have had some very good referees this season, but on the flip side of that, we have had a couple that have been atrocious.

Its a shame that at the standard we play at, the FA dont have the resources to monitor the referees performances on a game to game basis. Saying that, its a shame some of the FA arent up to speed with the game nowadays. football in the 50's and 60's is nothing like the game today.

[B Manning]

Veteran Skipper, if the teams persistantly mark a referee low then he will have an assessor look at his performance and if needed give the appropriate advice to help him. I do not know quite what you mean by " it`s a shame the FA are not up to speed with today`s game", do you mean referee`s of the FA in general ?.

[THE LYNX AFFECT]

i love being a ref :thumbsup:

i dont hide behind names.. martin smith ply :thumbsup:

[Veteran Skipper]

Veteran Skipper, if the teams persistantly mark a referee low then he will have an assessor look at his performance and if needed give the appropriate advice to help him. I do not know quite what you mean by " it`s a shame the FA are not up to speed with today`s game", do you mean referee`s of the FA in general ?.

Both to be honest.

There are some great referees out there, but there are more terrible ones sadly.... ones that are clearly not fit enough, some that dont know the rules, some that are stuck back in the 1950's......The game has changed, the laws of the game have advanced....

Going back to my original point.....how can headbutting and punching someone in view of the ref result in no initial action, but because the perpetrator was gobbing off, we both got ayellow card....?? Great refereeing there.... that would be assault if it was on the street!!

[B Manning]

Veteran Skipper, That is a silly remark (some are stuck back in the 1950`s ) the majority of referee`s were not even born then, so maybe it`s you who does not know the " Law`s " of the game. As to your original point i did not witness the incident you state so am unable to make any comment anything I say would be pure conjecture. As to terrible referee`s there are far more terrible players, managers etc.

PS who do or did you play for we may have crossed paths at some point.

[Topper]

Have to say that I am a little confused by what the referee said to you at the time of the incident. I have been a ref for four years now after finally hanging up my boots! I cannot imagine why a referee would feel the need to say that they are trying to keep 22 players on the pitch?! Do I start any match with the intention of cautioning or sending someone from the field of play? NO. What I do and hope every referee will do is apply the laws of the game. Simple really!

In this particular case, and assuming the incident is how you describe it, the referee should surely have sent the offender from the field of play, a simple decision in law. Sounds like they bottled it to me?

As for good and bad referees, I can only speak for myself when I say that I go out to referee a game using common sense, apply the laws of the game and frankly enjoy myself as I no longer play. I have had good and bad games, hopefully more of the former but that is down to individuals to decide upon and not me. I often question myself after a game, wondering to myself if I could have things better or differently. I think importantly, if I am aware I have made an error during the game I'll apologise and I'm also happy to discuss decisions with players as incidents occur.

Sides are only too willing to blame match officials or in fact anyone else rather than admit they may have played badly or an individual has put himself in a predicament where in fact they deserved to be cautioned or dismissed. So the interesting thing for me this season is that as I am returning to management on Saturdays, will be whether or not I get overtaken by the passion of the game and am blinkered into believing it was all down to a crap ref or will I practise what I preach?

We shall see!

[Die Hard]

Tim toppham by any chance?? excuse the spelling if so

[Veteran Skipper]

Have to say that I am a little confused by what the referee said to you at the time of the incident. I have been a ref for four years now after finally hanging up my boots! I cannot imagine why a referee would feel the need to say that they are trying to keep 22 players on the pitch?! Do I start any match with the intention of cautioning or sending someone from the field of play? NO. What I do and hope every referee will do is apply the laws of the game. Simple really!

In this particular case, and assuming the incident is how you describe it, the referee should surely have sent the offender from the field of play, a simple decision in law. Sounds like they bottled it to me?

As for good and bad referees, I can only speak for myself when I say that I go out to referee a game using common sense, apply the laws of the game and frankly enjoy myself as I no longer play. I have had good and bad games, hopefully more of the former but that is down to individuals to decide upon and not me. I often question myself after a game, wondering to myself if I could have things better or differently. I think importantly, if I am aware I have made an error during the game I'll apologise and I'm also happy to discuss decisions with players as incidents occur.

Sides are only too willing to blame match officials or in fact anyone else rather than admit they may have played badly or an individual has put himself in a predicament where in fact they deserved to be cautioned or dismissed. So the interesting thing for me this season is that as I am returning to management on Saturdays, will be whether or not I get overtaken by the passion of the game and am blinkered into believing it was all down to a crap ref or will I practise what I preach?

We shall see!

The incident was exactly as I described it Topper.

I've been around long enough now to know a good referee and a bad one. I will say, I've not always been the easiest of players to deal with in my younger days, but there was a fair few referees I have total respect for, a lot that I still see and happily speak to..... including a couple that have sent me off in the past.

I got sent off against Sticker this year, and although I didnt think the referee was particularly good on the day, I totally deserved my red card. I apologised to the other player after the game, explained my actions and shook hands. One thing I will do is, if Im in the wrong, Ill put my hands up and take my punishment. Now, the player that headbutt and punched me tried to do similar when we played Queens at their place... the guy is an idiot, and I have no idea what his problem with me is, especially as our paths dont ever cross, and this was the first time I can recall playing against him.

The referee on this day, relating to the topic, clearly saw the incident. I put my hands behind my back when chappy approached me and kept them there. All I did was smile at him after his weak arse headbutt and punch.

At half time, the referee apologised for booking me.... if he was sorry then, why did he book me in the first place when he said he saw the whole incident?? Why didnt he sent chappy off??

[Topper]

Tim toppham by any chance?? excuse the spelling if so

Yeah! Who are you, Die Hard?

[Topper]

Have to say that I am a little confused by what the referee said to you at the time of the incident. I have been a ref for four years now after finally hanging up my boots! I cannot imagine why a referee would feel the need to say that they are trying to keep 22 players on the pitch?! Do I start any match with the intention of cautioning or sending someone from the field of play? NO. What I do and hope every referee will do is apply the laws of the game. Simple really!

In this particular case, and assuming the incident is how you describe it, the referee should surely have sent the offender from the field of play, a simple decision in law. Sounds like they bottled it to me?

As for good and bad referees, I can only speak for myself when I say that I go out to referee a game using common sense, apply the laws of the game and frankly enjoy myself as I no longer play. I have had good and bad games, hopefully more of the former but that is down to individuals to decide upon and not me. I often question myself after a game, wondering to myself if I could have things better or differently. I think importantly, if I am aware I have made an error during the game I'll apologise and I'm also happy to discuss decisions with players as incidents occur.

Sides are only too willing to blame match officials or in fact anyone else rather than admit they may have played badly or an individual has put himself in a predicament where in fact they deserved to be cautioned or dismissed. So the interesting thing for me this season is that as I am returning to management on Saturdays, will be whether or not I get overtaken by the passion of the game and am blinkered into believing it was all down to a crap ref or will I practise what I preach?

We shall see!

The incident was exactly as I described it Topper.

I've been around long enough now to know a good referee and a bad one. I will say, I've not always been the easiest of players to deal with in my younger days, but there was a fair few referees I have total respect for, a lot that I still see and happily speak to..... including a couple that have sent me off in the past.

I got sent off against Sticker this year, and although I didnt think the referee was particularly good on the day, I totally deserved my red card. I apologised to the other player after the game, explained my actions and shook hands. One thing I will do is, if Im in the wrong, Ill put my hands up and take my punishment. Now, the player that headbutt and punched me tried to do similar when we played Queens at their place... the guy is an idiot, and I have no idea what his problem with me is, especially as our paths dont ever cross, and this was the first time I can recall playing against him.

The referee on this day, relating to the topic, clearly saw the incident. I put my hands behind my back when chappy approached me and kept them there. All I did was smile at him after his weak arse headbutt and punch.

At half time, the referee apologised for booking me.... if he was sorry then, why did he book me in the first place when he said he saw the whole incident?? Why didnt he sent chappy off??

Then as was previously mentioned by another contributor, put a report in to the CCFA as this is the sort of performance that makes it impossible for all concerned to show a consistant approach.

Good luck, I really hope something is done about this.

[Veteran Skipper]

Veteran Skipper, That is a silly remark (some are stuck back in the 1950`s ) the majority of referee`s were not even born then, so maybe it`s you who does not know the " Law`s " of the game. As to your original point i did not witness the incident you state so am unable to make any comment anything I say would be pure conjecture. As to terrible referee`s there are far more terrible players, managers etc.

PS who do or did you play for we may have crossed paths at some point.

Im a qualified FA Coach, Ive taken the assistant linesman's course, Ive been playing football for over 30 years. Ive also taken a referees course as well as keeping upto date with changes in the laws of the game. Im confidant that I know the laws.

I played senior football in the ECPL and the odd appearance in the SWL. At 43, and with an arthritic knee, a torn PCL and requiring a knee replacement once I hit the required age, Duchy football is my limit. I played for Foxhole last season.

When I said some are stuck in the 1950's, I meant in their mind set, not necessarily their age...although the referee in question on this occasion was 73.

I am fully aware that there are many terrible players , but thats not my point of this post is it!!

[Veteran Skipper]

email now sent off to CCFA.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

email now sent off to CCFA.

About time.

[Veteran Skipper]

email now sent off to CCFA.

About time.

Thank you.