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Billybale
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Guidance for Referees and Clubs when managing repeat substitutions

In March 2012, The International Football Association Board permitted The Football Association to undertake a 2 year pilot on repeat substitutions. Cornwall County FA will be adopting repeat substitutions for all County Cup Competitions apart from the Senior and Durning-Lawrence Charity Cup in the 2012-2013 season.

Law 3 states that in all matches, the names of the substitutes must be given to the referee prior to the start of the match. Any substitute whose name is not given to the referee at this time may not take part in the match.

To replace a player with a repeat substitution, the following conditions must be observed:

The referee must be informed before any proposed substitution is made

The substitute only enters the field of play after the player being replaced has left and after receiving a signal from the referee

The substitute only enters the field of play at the halfway line and during a stoppage in the match

The substitution is completed when a substitute enters the field of play

From that moment, the substitute becomes a player and the player he has replaced becomes a substituted player

The substituted player may under this experiment then take further part in the match and replace a player

There is no limit on the number of repeated substitutions that can be made. However, if the match official believes that a team is delaying the restart of play, then appropriate action will be taken

All substitutes are subject to the authority and jurisdiction of the referee, whether called upon to play or not

Referees are advised to control the ‘repeat substitution’ procedure and manage it effectively, ensuring they have a record of which players are on the field at any one time. This is especially important if a cup competition match requires a result from Kicks from the Penalty Mark, where only players who complete the match i.e. are on the field at the final whistle are permitted to participate.

Referees are reminded that the Laws of the Game must be enforced and repeat substitutions cannot be used as a form of disciplinary action to replace a caution or dismissal.

Clubs are advised that they are responsible for informing the referee when they wish to make a substitution.

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In our Junior Cup game on Saturday, the use of rolling subs made the game drag on by at least 30 seconds! Being able to use rolling subs helped our centre-back recover from a painful knock after treatment and resume about 15 minutes later. Under normal circumstances that would have been the end of his afternoon.

If you see a vets game, there is no problem with the arrangement and I am sure that everyone will get used to it once they have tried it out.

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What a ridiculous rule. This is men's football, not 5 year olds who get tired after 10 minutes. Surely if a team goes 2 or 3 up, they ll just bring on all their defensive players? If they concede a couple... Bring all their attacking players again. This isn't bloody American football. Why change something that doesn't need changing....????

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Great idea should be rolled out across junior football. As you guys know the commitment levels in junior football can be very up and down to say the least. Allowing 3-5 roling subs would mean I can keep a squad of 16 players pretty much happy and match fit. It would also cut down on the amount of counselling I have to do with younger players who don't make the 3 man subs bench or don't get a run out I have ear ache from Thursday to Saturday every week.

If I could bring someone off who is having a shocker have a chat with them show them what they are doing wrong then bring them back on then thats great for my relationship with a player and good for them. If I can bring someone on who I'm not sure about knowing I can bring them off then thats good as well. All in all it means more people get a run out which has to be good for the game. If you want "mens" football then go play senior. I'm not a huge fan of the "junior" "senior" divide however I'm stuck with it and would rather use it to my advantage than put up barriers to change. I have to admit the junior status does provide certain opportunities to improve the enjoyment of the game that would never get a chance in senior football such as adopting rolling subs and is arguably a good(ish) bridge for youth going into senior. Also it allows villages and very small communities to have a football club on budget facilities. Anyway I'm looking forward to rolling subs and hope the league adopts it next year.

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What a ridiculous rule. This is men's football, not 5 year olds who get tired after 10 minutes. Surely if a team goes 2 or 3 up, they ll just bring on all their defensive players? If they concede a couple... Bring all their attacking players again. This isn't bloody American football. Why change something that doesn't need changing....????

Totally agree - here we are trying to improve the standard and "professionalism" within the junior leagues and we get this mickey mouse idea!Leave the social aspect to after the match - people give up a lot of time to run sides - if people want a social jolly then play sunday league pub foootball. You dont see too many social teams being successful.

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So Helston aren't a social team then???

Most definitely - thats why the first team play for free and the reserve sides are also social teams but for the 2 hours of the football and wram up etc they are focused and have their minds on winning - perhaps that is the key to our success. We can all have a laugh but not to the detrement of the game and the result - and for that i make no apologies - ever heard the saying "work hard, play hard"?

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Professionalism in the Duchy League! Come on chaps I'm sure you don't need me to point out the problem with such a suggestion? There is no professionalism in Junior football nor should there be. It's about enjoyment and development and your wrong to confuse enjoyment and development with having a jolly/social outing. You can take Junior football seriously (which I do) without it becoming professional in approach. But don't get your terms and outcomes confused. We get between 20-30 training, the firsts train hard and work to improve the seconds are still getting to grips with some basics. Show me some hard evidence that this proposed change is detrimental to the enjoyment and development of the game at Junior standard? Anyway rolling subs are here and I guess likley to stay.

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As much as I've always said I don't like the idea, it's too 'Americanised', I will try and keep an open mind until we've tried it. But i do find myself agreeing with le boss here. Maybe if a player is always on the bench and not getting any game time, there is a clue there. If the manager can't rotate his squad or subs to use this player, then maybe the manager doesn't have as much belief in him as he would like him to think. Either that, or this player may be playing above himself in which case dropping down a league or 2 may benefit him more? Just my own personal opinion, don't want to get into a debate over it!

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What a ridiculous rule. This is men's football, not 5 year olds who get tired after 10 minutes. Surely if a team goes 2 or 3 up, they ll just bring on all their defensive players? If they concede a couple... Bring all their attacking players again. This isn't bloody American football. Why change something that doesn't need changing....????

Totally agree - here we are trying to improve the standard and "professionalism" within the junior leagues and we get this mickey mouse idea!Leave the social aspect to after the match - people give up a lot of time to run sides - if people want a social jolly then play sunday league pub foootball. You dont see too many social teams being successful.

So Mr Bushy and Mr Le Boss, may I ask what rules for substitutions are the ideal scenario in our beloved game according to your opinions? You may, no no, you obviously do, know the history of substitutions in football. Have we arrived at the optimum scenario (play a maximum of 3 from up to 5 named players)? Furthermore, do you think there should be any distinction between the professional game, and the lowly level of football us lot partake in (with regards to subs of course?
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What a ridiculous rule. This is men's football, not 5 year olds who get tired after 10 minutes. Surely if a team goes 2 or 3 up, they ll just bring on all their defensive players? If they concede a couple... Bring all their attacking players again. This isn't bloody American football. Why change something that doesn't need changing....????

You may ask - thank you for your eloquence and perhaps the word professional was the wrong word - perhaps i should have said disciplined attitude. Of course there is a vast difference between the pro game and our lowly junior amateur football but just go and ask the managers who have been successful in Cornwall - Mr Mewton, Massey, Carey, Gilbert, Hodges and see if they treat their teams as a bit of a laugh and a social outing - i make no excuse for aspiring to better things and trying to copy their attitudes and part of that , in my opinion, is to retain the subs process as it is, if players are not good enough to be part of the squad and then to play, then why kid these players by using them for 5 minutes here and there? It's insulting to both parties. As I said, my opinion, and I am entitled to it and i make no apologies for it. I want to win at everything I do, that's how i was brought up and dn't think it has made me a worse person for it. And no i don't know the history of substitutes, nor do i care to know,but it is how it is done from the top at this point. Amen

Totally agree - here we are trying to improve the standard and "professionalism" within the junior leagues and we get this mickey mouse idea!Leave the social aspect to after the match - people give up a lot of time to run sides - if people want a social jolly then play sunday league pub foootball. You dont see too many social teams being successful.

So Mr Bushy and Mr Le Boss, may I ask what rules for substitutions are the ideal scenario in our beloved game according to your opinions? You may, no no, you obviously do, know the history of substitutions in football. Have we arrived at the optimum scenario (play a maximum of 3 from up to 5 named players)? Furthermore, do you think there should be any distinction between the professional game, and the lowly level of football us lot partake in (with regards to subs of course?

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If rolling subs happens there will be a shortage of players at struggling teams especially small village teams. Teams with bare 11 will just get slaughtered every week as they won't have the spare legs to come on. More lower league teams will fold as they won't have the income of players who couldn't get into higher league teams as those players will be getting game time in higher leagues. It won't work and I hope it doesn't happen

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What a ridiculous rule. This is men's football, not 5 year olds who get tired after 10 minutes. Surely if a team goes 2 or 3 up, they ll just bring on all their defensive players? If they concede a couple... Bring all their attacking players again. This isn't bloody American football. Why change something that doesn't need changing....????

Totally agree - here we are trying to improve the standard and "professionalism" within the junior leagues and we get this mickey mouse idea!Leave the social aspect to after the match - people give up a lot of time to run sides - if people want a social jolly then play sunday league pub foootball. You dont see too many social teams being successful.

So Mr Bushy and Mr Le Boss, may I ask what rules for substitutions are the ideal scenario in our beloved game according to your opinions? You may, no no, you obviously do, know the history of substitutions in football. Have we arrived at the optimum scenario (play a maximum of 3 from up to 5 named players)? Furthermore, do you think there should be any distinction between the professional game, and the lowly level of football us lot partake in (with regards to subs of course?

I can understand why people believe this is a good idea, and I agree to a certain extent that it is by giving fringe players a chance. But realistically, do you honestly believe that teams aren't going to abuse this system? How many subs are going to be made in the last 10 minutes from a team that's hanging on for victory in a bid to waste time and break up play? How often are teams going to bring all their strikers on when going forward, and then defenders when defending...? How will a referee distinguish between teams 'taking the p*ss' by making too many substitutions, and genuine substitutions?

The system will never be used as it should and teams with big squads will gain a huge advantage over teams with small squads.

Maybe some teams in the dutchy leagues are happy looking at their games as a bit of a jolly, but I'm pretty sure the majority take their games very seriously, want to win, and don't want to be made a mockery of by introducing kids/veteran/american rules to their games.

Better fit the fa tried modernising the game at the top end of the spectrum (goal line technology/sin bin for diving/3rd eye) than changing things that don't need changing at the bottom.

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If rolling subs happens there will be a shortage of players at struggling teams especially small village teams. Teams with bare 11 will just get slaughtered every week as they won't have the spare legs to come on. More lower league teams will fold as they won't have the income of players who couldn't get into higher league teams as those players will be getting game time in higher leagues. It won't work and I hope it doesn't happen

Tempo, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Le Boss, well done for not even trying to answer my question, and hence proving a point to me.

glad i proved a point

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Guest BenTheYeti

There seems to be an overwhelming sense of deja vu here..

At the end of the day, this is something which comes from much much higher in the echelons than any one League Committee.. and if they say "You will use rolling subs" we will be using rolling subs.

If clubs/managers/players don't like it, there is likely to be three options. 1. Quit the game you love 2. Don't use the rolling sub system (there is nothing in the rules saying you have to make a substitution after all) 3. When in Rome...

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Why dont we go the whole way here 5 subs is half a team (minus goalkeeper) lets increase that to 10 we then could have a defensive team and an attacking team which could be brought on and off as needed, we could also split the game into quarters and bring in timeouts for lots of touchline chats etc,, we could also increase the number of referee`s and have a minimum of one in each half plus touchline assistants and not forgetting the goal line/penalty area assistants, plus we could always increase the number allowed on the pitch that would give lots more participation. But of course we could stand by the old saying " if it aint broke dont fix it".

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Why dont we go the whole way here 5 subs is half a team (minus goalkeeper) lets increase that to 10 we then could have a defensive team and an attacking team which could be brought on and off as needed, we could also split the game into quarters and bring in timeouts for lots of touchline chats etc,, we could also increase the number of referee`s and have a minimum of one in each half plus touchline assistants and not forgetting the goal line/penalty area assistants, plus we could always increase the number allowed on the pitch that would give lots more participation. But of course we could stand by the old saying " if it aint broke dont fix it".

It's the ever present scenario of somebody sat at a desk somewhere coming up with a 'brilliant' idea. All looks fantastic on paper, but never actually works! But hey... The people at the top always know best!!

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Why dont we go the whole way here 5 subs is half a team (minus goalkeeper) lets increase that to 10 we then could have a defensive team and an attacking team which could be brought on and off as needed, we could also split the game into quarters and bring in timeouts for lots of touchline chats etc,, we could also increase the number of referee`s and have a minimum of one in each half plus touchline assistants and not forgetting the goal line/penalty area assistants, plus we could always increase the number allowed on the pitch that would give lots more participation. But of course we could stand by the old saying " if it aint broke dont fix it".

Don't forget the cheer leaders....!!!!!!

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Sorry I forgot the cheerleaders, now how many of those do we have ?. we could always have the crowd take part,we could issue them with an electronic device so they could either agree or disagree with a ref`s decision and we then go on a majority vote, just think everybody could participate.

I always wanted It's a Knockout and Jeux sans Frontier back!!!

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Do you all realise that back-passes did not used to be allowed, offsides did not exist, goals never used to have crossbars, teams were not allowed any substitutions and so on? At some point, each of these changes occurred. For the better, or worse?

I tried asking Mr Bushy and Mr Le Boss (and now Mr Manning can be added to the list - and feel free Tempo)..."Have we arrived at the optimum scenario (play a maximum of 3 from up to 5 named players)?". At some point in the not too distant past, this law was passed. Before it, something different existed. Was that other existance "Americanised", a "jolly", or any of the other "kickabout" names you are insistent on calling it?

Any attempts at answering are welcome.

Adding substitutions would be one of the least revolutionary of all the changes to football.

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But realistically, do you honestly believe that teams aren't going to abuse this system? How many subs are going to be made in the last 10 minutes from a team that's hanging on for victory in a bid to waste time and break up play? How often are teams going to bring all their strikers on when going forward, and then defenders when defending...?

I think the main valid point against the rolling subs idea is this.....teams who abuse the system. However, although I think this may well manifest itself somewhere on some occasion, I honestly believe that this will not be too evident at most games. I think some people are being a bit blinkered and almost looking at the idea as being compulsory. Every game will not be ruined. You also have to consider that although some of the worst case scenarios are possible, each manager will have to try to keep his players happy. They will be as off as everyone else on the pitch if he makes a substitute every two minutes.

Also, some of the views that some teams will be tremendously disadvantaged as they only have 1 sub and the opposition turns up with 5 to roll-on roll-off as they please...I'm not convinced. Many teams regularly turn up with one or two subs only. Not even 3, or the maximum you can name - 5. So should this rule come into league football, I doubt that every team will turn up with 5 subs. It is aimed at increasing participation at our level, and I think it will, but only over time.

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Mangle, I actually was playing when your team only had 11 players, I was also playing when the 1 sub came into being. I am of the opinion "if it aint broke dont fix it " and to me it`s pretty good as it is. Also in pre season matches I have always allowed roll on roll off subs for obvious reasons of the managers needing to look at players, but I have had instances where they have been used to the extent when it has become a pain in the backside for the official. Now more of my thoughts on this subject, the idea of subs was not participation but to keep the sides egual in the event of an injury this even applies to any 3 from 5 as you could now have a specialist on the bench ie goalkeeper to use if needed, now with 5 roll on roll off if one team turn out with the bare 11 and I can assure you that happens then in this scenario the team with 5 subs is at a far greater advantage throughout the game. So perhaps we should allow each side to have the same amount from none to the full 5. Just my thoughts.

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If this idea is so great why is it not being adopted from the top down - I really don't know the history nor do i really care - what I am asking for is uniformity throughout. If you see it happening at The Emirates or Old Trafford then we will all have to fall into line but the powers to be are obviously not totally convinced or else we would not have guinea pig tests.

Of course the other concern is a player "going cold" and then going on and getting injured - and remember that most have to work on a Monday morning. With the best will in the world players rarely warm up properly despite everyone's best efforts.

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My opinion would be to only have roll in subs for the bottom few divisions in duchy and trelawney. I think as this system can be abused easily despite the obvious benefits, it should only really involve the standard of football that is set to benefit from it the most.

What a snobbish quote! Lets inflict change on the lower teams! With youre attitude im suprised you think the lower sides are organised enough to accomodate such a change!

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  • 2 weeks later...

My opinion would be to only have roll in subs for the bottom few divisions in duchy and trelawney. I think as this system can be abused easily despite the obvious benefits, it should only really involve the standard of football that is set to benefit from it the most.

What a snobbish quote! Lets inflict change on the lower teams! With youre attitude im suprised you think the lower sides are organised enough to accomodate such a change!

kash totally agree lower divisions shouldnt have to play to any different rules than anyone else, pretty poor judgment from you pidgeon my opinion is keep same it will only punish smaller club in junior who have not got as big squad as some of the other higher leagued teams
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Lets get this straight before this weekend coming as most of us play in the Junior Cup.

You give the referee the names of 5 subs.

During the match can you use use all 5 or just 3 from 5 and roll on roll off only those 3 for the whole game?

On the County website I can't find anywhere in the rules to say how many or all those 5 subs can be used.

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Cornishteddyboy and all who may be interested,

Rolling Substitutes – for teams in the NOMINATED COMPETITIONS , a player who has been substituted himself becomes a substitute and may replace another player at any time subject to the substitution being carried out in accordance with Law 3 of the Laws of Association Football. A Team must not have a squad greater than 16 players. The referee shall be informed of the names of the substitutes prior to the commencement of the match.

Nominated Competitions (CCFA)

Cornwall Junior Cup

Cornwall Sunday Cup

Cornwall Women’s Cup

Cornwall Rathbone Trophy (U18)

Cornwall Luke Cup (U16)

Nominated League

Active Groundworks West Cornwall Sunday League (All Competitions associated with this League)

This is information which was sent to all referees at the start of the season.

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