South western lge or South west peninsula lge.

[Cloughie]

Hi,

Question; who prefers the old south western league format or the south west peninsula lge format ?

Personally, if prefered the old south western lge.

[pro]

South western league any day mate.

Good standard and teams never pull out of the league!!!

[The Villains]

South western league any day mate.

Good standard and teams never pull out of the league!!!

So you saying IF iit was still called that, teams would not have pulled out the league!! You could call it what ever name you want, but, teams would have still pulled out over the last few years.

[pro]

Teams r pulling out due 2 travelling cost for example Penzance to Cully? Most teams away games in the prem your looking at over 1hr 30! To much pal

[Nemesis]

1951/52 - SWL

Torquay Utd - St Blazey - St Austell

Barnstaple Town - Newquay

Plymouth Argyle - Saltash Utd

Penzance - Newton Abbot

Truro City - Bideford

1973/74 Clubs included

Bugle - St Lukes College

Penzanze - Holsworthy

1987/88 clubs included

Appledore - Penzance

Teignmouth - Torquay

Millbrook - Newton Abbot

1988/89

Clyst Rovers - Bugle

Oak Villa - Tavistock

Appledore - Penzance

Since then, the many of the Devon clubs pulled out of the SWL, some went to the wall (Clyst recently) we were down to Tavistock and Holsworthy at one point, Parkway joined later on. There have always been changes of clubs, Nanpean were in the SWL as were Plymouth Civil Service, Devon & Cornwall Police, Torrington, Plymouth Command etc. Clubs come and go, change is a good thing.

I cannot see the difference between the SWPL Premier and the SWL, the 2 lower SWPL leagues are poor relations in comparison. If clubs can travel 160-200 mile round trips on roads in the 50's, clubs can do it now (unless on the main roads on Bank Holiday weekends). I read in an old Cornish football book recently, that Newquay had to set off at 8am by horse & cart to get a train at Camborne or Redruth down to Helston, kick off was 3pm. Two points there, no cars and we had rail services that went to Helston, we have progressed with cars and gone backwards with fewer rail services, everything changes !

[The Villains]

Teams r pulling out due 2 travelling cost for example Penzance to Cully? Most teams away games in the prem your looking at over 1hr 30! To much pal

A whole 90 mins, seems that you only want to play if the games on your door step.

[MattP]

Travelling time is a poor excuse. Clubs travel close to 90mins in the Duchy League and ECPL,from the south coast up to near Bude.

[Braidie_Cole]

The traveling is part of the match day experience surely. Good laugh in the car with the lads arruve at the ground and play the game

[hedgerow]

Travelling time is a poor excuse. Clubs travel close to 90mins in the Duchy League and ECPL,from the south coast up to near Bude.

Totally agree with you. The question that should asked "do you prefer the old system of no relegation, so it is the same teams every season, or the current system where Clubs are given the chance of promotion" ? I personally prefer the current system.

The old SWL guaranteed Clubs high revenue every saturday as there were a lot of local derbies taking place i.e Penryn v Falmouth, Porthleven v Penzance etc

[hoppit]

I would prefer the current system if clubs took promotion, but as they don't for whatever reason we might as well have a Cornish Senior league. I don't think it's travelling thats the problem I think it's lack of ambition.

[NORTH DEVON DWELLER]

Hi,

Question; who prefers the old south western league format or the south west peninsula lge format ?

Personally, if prefered the old south western lge.

Once AGAIN this old chestnut.

[Trombone Terry]

South western league was better for football. We had so many local derbies. Now teams don't have any identity and are playing people, who they've never heard of and the distances and exoense is crazy. Teams should play withing their geographical area to a maximum of 50 miles a bit like the school catchment area selection.

[Tommy Matthews]

I remember playing Appledore, Torrington, Holsworthy, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Clyst Rovers, Okehampton, and probably a few others who were outside an hour or so travelling distance.

You could stay for a drink with your opposition and still be home by 8pm easily.

[tyringham ghost]

I remember playing Appledore, Torrington, Holsworthy, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Clyst Rovers, Okehampton, and probably a few others who were outside an hour or so travelling distance.

You could stay for a drink with your opposition and still be home by 8pm easily.

You only stayed if someone else was buying!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trombone Terry]

I remember playing Appledore, Torrington, Holsworthy, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Clyst Rovers, Okehampton, and probably a few others who were outside an hour or so travelling distance.

You could stay for a drink with your opposition and still be home by 8pm easily.

Sorry I thnk you misunderstood I didn't want to be home early I just didn't like the travelling as I get motion sickness

[Trombone Terry]

I remember playing Appledore, Torrington, Holsworthy, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Clyst Rovers, Okehampton, and probably a few others who were outside an hour or so travelling distance.

You could stay for a drink with your opposition and still be home by 8pm easily.

You only stayed if someone else was buying!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha nice one.

Good luck today if you're playing etc

[cornishteddyboy]

This is an all time list of teams who were in the SWL. I was going to start a website for the old league but eventually decided against it. this was going to be one of the pages on the site.

SOUTH WESTERN LEAGUE

ALL TIME CHART

IN THE SEASONS 1951-52 TO 1992-93 A TEAM GAINED 2 POINTS FOR A WIN AND 1 POINT FOR A DRAW. SINCE THEN UNTIL THE LEAGUE DISBANDED A TEAM GAINED 3 POINTS FOR A WIN AND 1 FOR A DRAW. tHUS TEAMS WHO ENTERED LATER ON WOULD ACCUMULATE POINTS MORE QUICKLY THAN A TEAM WHO PLAYED IN THE EARLY YEARS. tO MAKE IT FAIR THIS TABLE HAS BEEN CALCULATED ON EITHER 2 POINTS FOR A WIN OR 3 POINTS (THE END 2 COLUMNS) BUT THE CHART IS ORDERED IN THE 3 POINTS FOR A WIN SYSTEM. tHE TABLE IS ALSO A TEAM TABLE NOT A CLUB TABLE

TEAM SEASONS HIGhPOS GAMES PLAYED WON DRAWN LOST FOR AGAINST DIFF 2 PO FOR A WIN 3 PO FOR A WIN

1 ST BLAZEY 55 1ST 1816 996 314 506 4677 3037 1640 2306 3302

2 NEWQUAY 55 1ST 1816 880 321 615 4057 3161 896 2081 2961

3 FALMOUTH TOWN 45 1ST 1456 893 231 332 4116 2052 2064 2017 2910

4 WADEBRIDGE TOWN 54 2ND 1794 804 345 645 3701 3225 476 1953 2757

5 TRURO CITY 51 1ST 1678 803 302 573 3719 3227 492 1908 2711

6 ST AUSTELL 55 1ST 1816 707 307 810 3517 3731 -214 1721 2428

7 BODMIN TOWN 47 1ST 1564 716 262 586 3175 2924 251 1694 2410

8 PENZANCE 55 1ST 1816 675 342 799 3487 3701 -214 1692 2367

9 TORPOINT ATHLETIC 45 1ST 1518 587 317 608 2912 2995 -83 1491 2078

10 TAVISTOCK 48 2ND 1586 532 314 740 2622 3450 -828 1378 1910

11 SALTASH UNITED 32 1ST 998 461 145 392 2333 2205 128 1067 1528

12 LAUNCESTON 35 1ST 1176 412 222 542 2124 2451 -327 1046 1458

13 PORTHLEVEN 28 2ND 931 417 172 342 1953 1686 267 1006 1423

14 MILLBROOK 27 2ND 934 398 199 337 1679 1505 174 995 1393

15 LISKEARD ATHLETIC 25 1ST 828 406 165 257 1828 1332 496 977 1383

16 HOLSWORTHY 32 4TH 1104 371 243 490 1639 2024 -403 985 1356

17 BUGLE 37 1ST 1204 376 197 631 2021 3076 -1055 949 1325

18 PLYMOUTH ARGYLE "A" 20 2ND 606 273 91 242 1471 1211 260 637 910

19 APPLEDORE & B.A.A.C. 18 6TH 636 221 123 292 990 1129 -139 565 786

20 HELSTON ATHLETIC 19 3RD 562 176 79 307 1024 1577 -553 431 607

21 NEWTON ABBOT (DYNAMOES) 12 6TH 436 153 103 180 628 654 -26 409 562

22 PLYMOUTH PARKWAY 9 4TH 310 143 56 111 606 560 46 342 485

23 CLYST ROVERS 11 6TH 392 113 86 193 574 877 -303 312 425

24 PLYMOUTH CIVIL SERVICE 7 4TH 258 122 53 83 466 350 116 297 419

25 NEWTON ABBOT SPURS 14 5TH 404 112 58 234 640 1169 -529 282 394

26 TORQUAY UNITED RESERVES 7 1ST 220 110 43 63 505 330 175 263 373

27 TORRINGTON 6 2ND 222 97 47 78 410 337 73 241 338

28 NANPEAN ROVERS 12 6TH 364 92 43 229 684 1224 -540 227 319

29 PENRYN ATHLETIC 8 6TH 282 86 40 156 484 641 -157 212 298

30 LOUIS INTERNATIONAL 5 6TH 173 69 47 57 276 262 14 185 254

31 TEIGNMOUTH 6 9TH 224 71 40 113 337 428 -91 182 253

32 ILLOGAN RBL 7 9TH 248 65 56 127 378 584 -206 186 251

33 ELMORE 4 4TH 138 65 33 40 266 214 52 163 228

34 CALLINGTON TOWN 8 12TH 277 62 42 172 393 730 -337 166 228

35 ST LUKE'S COLLEGE RESERVES 9 13TH 302 58 46 198 388 787 -399 162 220

36 PLYMOUTH COMMAND 7 8TH 252 54 45 153 330 610 -280 153 207

37 CAMELFORD 8 8TH 226 50 29 147 360 790 -430 129 179

38 BIDEFORD RESERVES 6 4TH 164 53 18 93 347 487 -140 124 177

39 ST LUKE'S COLLEGE 3 7TH 88 43 9 36 257 196 61 95 138

40 BARNSTABLE TOWN RESERVES 4 4TH 108 38 19 51 248 257 -8 95 133

41 DEVON & CORNWALL POLICE 4 12TH 134 35 26 73 210 312 -108 96 131

42 MULLION 3 9TH 100 28 26 46 153 215 -62 82 110

43 OTTERY ST MARY 2 6TH 72 32 12 26 132 121 11 76 108

44 EXETER CITY "A" 2 6TH 60 25 12 23 131 123 8 62 87

45 OAK VILLA 2 11TH 72 17 19 36 104 150 -46 53 70

46 EXETER CITY RESERVES 1 5TH 36 20 6 10 61 38 23 46 66

47 OKEHAMPTON ARGYLE 3 15TH 102 15 12 75 92 363 -271 42 57

48 GOONHAVERN 2 15TH 70 10 9 51 60 234 -174 29 39

49 UNITED SERVICES 1 12TH 32 10 8 14 69 77 -8 28 38

50 ILFRACOMBE TOWN RESERVES 1 17TH 32 6 4 22 47 110 -63 16 22

[Paul]

Why on earth would you want to go back to the swl? It's great to be able to visit new grounds and see your side playing a new club or two each season. The crowds are no different now then the swl. If you do well, people will come and watch, if not, they wont. You cant have local derbies every week. Stick with it, and keep promoting it and see clubs improve facilities.

[Tommy Matthews]

Ha ha! The way you used to drive we were home before we left!

Good luck today mate!

[sprayer]

The traveling is part of the match day experience surely. Good laugh in the car with the lads arruve at the ground and play the game

Really Dane?

[Ian Pethick]

Why on earth would you want to go back to the swl? It's great to be able to visit new grounds and see your side playing a new club or two each season. The crowds are no different now then the swl. If you do well, people will come and watch, if not, they wont. You cant have local derbies every week. Stick with it, and keep promoting it and see clubs improve facilities.

Agreed . We are where we are . No going back .Local football needs new clubs and challenges in order to reinvigorate itself .

It seemed me that the old South Western League had run its course when it was merged with the Devon League to form the Peninsula League .

When I started following football properly in the mid eighties , we had a strong Liskeard and Saltash in the Western League and a strong South Western League ,the Cornwall Senior Cup was also a real event when Western League clubs came up against South Western League clubs that were looking to put one over on these teams . The Plymouth and District League was also a pretty strong competition with a few sides that were probably of SWL standard .

. The generally uninspiring results of the last few years in the Vase and FA Cup ( Torpoint being an exception recently) have highlighted how much the standard has fallen against teams in leagues of a comparable level . .On a personal level , I got fed up with the same old teams, same old players in different kits (but trying to remember which team they had transferred their allegiance to), and walked away for several seasons .

[Argyle Fan]

This is an all time list of teams who were in the SWL. I was going to start a website for the old league but eventually decided against it. this was going to be one of the pages on the site.

SOUTH WESTERN LEAGUE

ALL TIME CHART

IN THE SEASONS 1951-52 TO 1992-93 A TEAM GAINED 2 POINTS FOR A WIN AND 1 POINT FOR A DRAW. SINCE THEN UNTIL THE LEAGUE DISBANDED A TEAM GAINED 3 POINTS FOR A WIN AND 1 FOR A DRAW. tHUS TEAMS WHO ENTERED LATER ON WOULD ACCUMULATE POINTS MORE QUICKLY THAN A TEAM WHO PLAYED IN THE EARLY YEARS. tO MAKE IT FAIR THIS TABLE HAS BEEN CALCULATED ON EITHER 2 POINTS FOR A WIN OR 3 POINTS (THE END 2 COLUMNS) BUT THE CHART IS ORDERED IN THE 3 POINTS FOR A WIN SYSTEM. tHE TABLE IS ALSO A TEAM TABLE NOT A CLUB TABLE

TEAM SEASONS HIGhPOS GAMES PLAYED WON DRAWN LOST FOR AGAINST DIFF 2 PO FOR A WIN 3 PO FOR A WIN

1 ST BLAZEY 55 1ST 1816 996 314 506 4677 3037 1640 2306 3302

2 NEWQUAY 55 1ST 1816 880 321 615 4057 3161 896 2081 2961

3 FALMOUTH TOWN 45 1ST 1456 893 231 332 4116 2052 2064 2017 2910

4 WADEBRIDGE TOWN 54 2ND 1794 804 345 645 3701 3225 476 1953 2757

5 TRURO CITY 51 1ST 1678 803 302 573 3719 3227 492 1908 2711

6 ST AUSTELL 55 1ST 1816 707 307 810 3517 3731 -214 1721 2428

7 BODMIN TOWN 47 1ST 1564 716 262 586 3175 2924 251 1694 2410

8 PENZANCE 55 1ST 1816 675 342 799 3487 3701 -214 1692 2367

9 TORPOINT ATHLETIC 45 1ST 1518 587 317 608 2912 2995 -83 1491 2078

10 TAVISTOCK 48 2ND 1586 532 314 740 2622 3450 -828 1378 1910

11 SALTASH UNITED 32 1ST 998 461 145 392 2333 2205 128 1067 1528

12 LAUNCESTON 35 1ST 1176 412 222 542 2124 2451 -327 1046 1458

13 PORTHLEVEN 28 2ND 931 417 172 342 1953 1686 267 1006 1423

14 MILLBROOK 27 2ND 934 398 199 337 1679 1505 174 995 1393

15 LISKEARD ATHLETIC 25 1ST 828 406 165 257 1828 1332 496 977 1383

16 HOLSWORTHY 32 4TH 1104 371 243 490 1639 2024 -403 985 1356

17 BUGLE 37 1ST 1204 376 197 631 2021 3076 -1055 949 1325

18 PLYMOUTH ARGYLE "A" 20 2ND 606 273 91 242 1471 1211 260 637 910

19 APPLEDORE & B.A.A.C. 18 6TH 636 221 123 292 990 1129 -139 565 786

20 HELSTON ATHLETIC 19 3RD 562 176 79 307 1024 1577 -553 431 607

21 NEWTON ABBOT (DYNAMOES) 12 6TH 436 153 103 180 628 654 -26 409 562

22 PLYMOUTH PARKWAY 9 4TH 310 143 56 111 606 560 46 342 485

23 CLYST ROVERS 11 6TH 392 113 86 193 574 877 -303 312 425

24 PLYMOUTH CIVIL SERVICE 7 4TH 258 122 53 83 466 350 116 297 419

25 NEWTON ABBOT SPURS 14 5TH 404 112 58 234 640 1169 -529 282 394

26 TORQUAY UNITED RESERVES 7 1ST 220 110 43 63 505 330 175 263 373

27 TORRINGTON 6 2ND 222 97 47 78 410 337 73 241 338

28 NANPEAN ROVERS 12 6TH 364 92 43 229 684 1224 -540 227 319

29 PENRYN ATHLETIC 8 6TH 282 86 40 156 484 641 -157 212 298

30 LOUIS INTERNATIONAL 5 6TH 173 69 47 57 276 262 14 185 254

31 TEIGNMOUTH 6 9TH 224 71 40 113 337 428 -91 182 253

32 ILLOGAN RBL 7 9TH 248 65 56 127 378 584 -206 186 251

33 ELMORE 4 4TH 138 65 33 40 266 214 52 163 228

34 CALLINGTON TOWN 8 12TH 277 62 42 172 393 730 -337 166 228

35 ST LUKE'S COLLEGE RESERVES 9 13TH 302 58 46 198 388 787 -399 162 220

36 PLYMOUTH COMMAND 7 8TH 252 54 45 153 330 610 -280 153 207

37 CAMELFORD 8 8TH 226 50 29 147 360 790 -430 129 179

38 BIDEFORD RESERVES 6 4TH 164 53 18 93 347 487 -140 124 177

39 ST LUKE'S COLLEGE 3 7TH 88 43 9 36 257 196 61 95 138

40 BARNSTABLE TOWN RESERVES 4 4TH 108 38 19 51 248 257 -8 95 133

41 DEVON & CORNWALL POLICE 4 12TH 134 35 26 73 210 312 -108 96 131

42 MULLION 3 9TH 100 28 26 46 153 215 -62 82 110

43 OTTERY ST MARY 2 6TH 72 32 12 26 132 121 11 76 108

44 EXETER CITY "A" 2 6TH 60 25 12 23 131 123 8 62 87

45 OAK VILLA 2 11TH 72 17 19 36 104 150 -46 53 70

46 EXETER CITY RESERVES 1 5TH 36 20 6 10 61 38 23 46 66

47 OKEHAMPTON ARGYLE 3 15TH 102 15 12 75 92 363 -271 42 57

48 GOONHAVERN 2 15TH 70 10 9 51 60 234 -174 29 39

49 UNITED SERVICES 1 12TH 32 10 8 14 69 77 -8 28 38

50 ILFRACOMBE TOWN RESERVES 1 17TH 32 6 4 22 47 110 -63 16 22

Excellent stuff.

So actually more teams from Devon over the life of the league.

[Aberfalman]

I think this table has a better look to it. Never mind the width, feel the quality.

[Trombone Terry]

Cornish Teddy boy really needs to get a grip of the stats and publishing softwear. Falman this is far better

Even his daily league updates although appreciated they make little sense when posted in such a jumbled format.

Why can he do what you do and publish them so they make sense?

Pretty pointless changing the points system too? Why not make you're own league up where Penzance afc get 29 points for a win and a an extra point for each goal? Ridiculous

[Aberfalman]

I don't think that's his fault. You can't post formatted tables here as far as I can see. I got over that by posting an image.

Edit: BTW...I wasn't referring to the quality of the table presentation. I meant I'd rearranged the table to reflect a team's performance...not to how many points they had accumulated through playing more seasons.

[RobbieS]

The SWL for me was so much better. I think that there are some good sides in the Premier division of the SWPL, but the western division is poor. And the knock on effect to the Combo is there for all to see, as the standard there is pretty awful.

All in all I don't think that football in general in Cornwall has gained anything at all, especially when you see how many local games have been lost, and the great banter & rivalry that used to be there, seems to have almost gone.

Went & watched Falmouth at home to Camelford last week. No spark about the fixture, no spark on the field, and no spark in the crowd, or should I say lack of a crowd? Never have I seen so few people watching Falmouth Town at home? Told myself and Spanner all we needed to know about the "progress" of Cornish football. Dying on it's feet!!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

I remember playing Appledore, Torrington, Holsworthy, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Clyst Rovers, Okehampton, and probably a few others who were outside an hour or so travelling distance.

You could stay for a drink with your opposition and still be home by 8pm easily.

You only stayed if someone else was buying!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha nice one.

Good luck today if you're playing etc

You are joking, he can't ferkin move from the last one, ho ho ho, happy days John.

[Ian Pethick]

The SWL for me was so much better. I think that there are some good sides in the Premier division of the SWPL, but the western division is poor. And the knock on effect to the Combo is there for all to see, as the standard there is pretty awful.

All in all I don't think that football in general in Cornwall has gained anything at all, especially when you see how many local games have been lost, and the great banter & rivalry that used to be there, seems to have almost gone.

Went & watched Falmouth at home to Camelford last week. No spark about the fixture, no spark on the field, and no spark in the crowd, or should I say lack of a crowd? Never have I seen so few people watching Falmouth Town at home? Told myself and Spanner all we needed to know about the "progress" of Cornish football. Dying on it's feet!!

Agreed (mostly). The standard of football in Cornwall has been going backwards since Falmouth,Liskeard and Saltash came out of the Western League .

Do think though that declining attendances are as result of the times we live in . More people have to work Saturdays nowadays , you also have live Premier League football on Saturday lunchtimes and teatimes . Football watchers seem happier to sit in their living room or pub watching on telly rather than getting out and watching the real thing .Likewise a lot of players , the five and six a side leagues are certainly thriving in the Plymouth area at the expense of the Saturday eleven a side leagues . Twenty years ago you had 6 divisions of Plymouth & District and 4 divisions of Plymouth Combination . We are now down to 3 divisions of a combined league .The standard of the top divisions was pretty high and it was a useful stepping stone for youngsters between the youth leagues and the senior leagues . A combination of different working cultures , poor council pitch facilities and the expense of running a park team have contributed to these leagues downfall . It is now more attractive to play in smaller teams on a decent playing surface, over a much smaller duration in the evening with decent car parking and changing facilities .

Can't vouch for the Devon & Exeter league , but have heard that the once strong South Devon League is also in decline .

To conclude I don't think it would have been any different if we still had the old SWL in place , we would have found something else to be nostalgic about . There are many other underlying reasons .