A Quick Survey Regarding Subs

[cornishteddyboy]

Hi

I want to write an article in our club matchday programme regarding players paying subs to play in the Trelawney League.

I'm wondering do clubs in the lower league pay a smaller fee, do clubs that play on council pitches, etc have to pay more?

Is it possible for you to post on here the following

Club

Division

Subs paid or not paid or the amount.

If you don't want to put down your club just Division and amount will do.

I'll start off the debate

Penzance Reserves

Premier

No

[Roy Keane is GOD!!!]

Gulval

Prem & Div 3

Pay subs, £4 per starting player and £2 per playing sub.

This is to mainly cover the rent of the pitch and ref fees. Anything left over goes to try and get the club financially viable for next season!

[Dave Marks]

Titans

div 2 trelawney

£3 starting 1.50 sub

council owned pitch

[Guest BenTheYeti]

Halsetown

Division 1 and 2

£5 starting £3 sub

We're probably one of the most expensive around.. due to being usurped from our former pitch in Halsetown by new owners of the pub at the time, and having to relocate to St Ives Rugby Club. The above fees are a reduction on last season!

[Magic Mike]

Halsetown

Division 1 and 2

£5 starting £3 sub

We're probably one of the most expensive around.. due to being usurped from our former pitch in Halsetown by new owners of the pub at the time, and having to relocate to St Ives Rugby Club. The above fees are a reduction on last season!

are you at the rugby club again this year??

[Guest BenTheYeti]

Halsetown

Division 1 and 2

£5 starting £3 sub

We're probably one of the most expensive around.. due to being usurped from our former pitch in Halsetown by new owners of the pub at the time, and having to relocate to St Ives Rugby Club. The above fees are a reduction on last season!

are you at the rugby club again this year??

Yes mate, though we've yet to start playing there as we were informed this morning that the pitch is currently unplayable! (The owner has been using it as a camp site and car park for the summer)

[cornishman64]

trelander div5 council pitch starting 11 4pounds subs 2 pounds and thats not making a proffit away games cover cost off home games

[Trombone Terry]

Carharrack £5 per week but we get food and that afterwards

[dillroy]

£2.50 for games and £2 subs :)

[CJW4]

St Merryn

Duchy 5

No match fee but all those who sign on are to pay £40 per season to cover all matches. Good value when you take into consideration that cost of a referee averages £30+ per home game & laundry is £20 per game.

Yet still the players moan......

[Mangle]

£20 signing on fee.

£3 for starting, £1.50 substitutes that get on.

Under 18's pay less than this - not sure the rates.

Take turns each week for laundry.

Council owned pitch.

(At least these were the rates last year - haven't started playing this season yet.......) !!

[Pitty]

Holmans

Own the pitch

New this year £10 per month Sept to April (£5 back if on the bench 2 or more times in the month)

Last year £2 per match £1 for subs that play.......couldn't keep the club running unfortunately at that rate and some people better then paying then others after a game so are trying out this new method

[cornishteddyboy]

Any more?

[mitchy07]

Carharrack £5 per week but we get food and that afterwards

your being ripped off Carharrack subs are £4 and you still get food after

[newlyneastno.10]

St. Newlyn East

Duchy Prem

£5 a game subs (but nothing if you drive and take players to away games)

£2.50 for subs/under 18's/unemployed and students

Last season was £20 signing on fee and £4 subs but again struggled to get the signing on fees so are trying this new method.

[scotchio]

perran reserves home games £3 starting £1 sub away games all subs go to drivers.Home games provide food for free

[ozzybruv]

Trevenson Fc

Trelawny Division 1 & 5

Sign on £20 (for that they get a fleece training top cost club £21 and a Polo Top cost club £13.50)

Match day Subs for all players £3 each (£25 for School pitch, average £30 ref, £20 food at pub, £10 per kit wash)

Training £1.50 (£24 for astro pitch summer & £32 winter with flood lights)

Or pay monthly for training & matches £15

As you can see figures do not add up so we rely a lot on getting sponsorship otherwise club would not run.

Most players are fine at paying but there are always the few that have never got subs until you go pub and they always seem to manage to get a pint, strange that.

Last year we did manage to get all but £47.50 with most of that owed by players that left the club.

[Guest]

I would like to start a survey.... Clubs charging £2 entry to watch JUNIOR football matches. Your Playing junior football now not SENIOR

[Roy Keane is GOD!!!]

Which clubs are charging to watch junior football?

[Guest]

Which clubs are charging to watch junior football?

Penzance

[Roy Keane is GOD!!!]

I see, must admit i wouldnt pay to see junior football. I dont mind clubs going around with a charity box, making it optional if you want to contribute!

[Guest]

thankyou. thats more acceptable but not charging £2 on the gate. DISGUSTING

[Roy Keane is GOD!!!]

Penzance has always been like that, i think if you are going to charge at the gate it should be stipulated at the beginning of the season and ALL clubs informed, so that if travelling support comes down with little or no money, their embarrasment is saved.

Just my opinion....

[cornishteddyboy]

thankyou. thats more acceptable but not charging £2 on the gate. DISGUSTING

Penzance has always been like that, i think if you are going to charge at the gate it should be stipulated at the beginning of the season and ALL clubs informed, so that if travelling support comes down with little or no money, their embarrasment is saved.

Just my opinion....

Why is it DISGUSTING?

When you have a team of youngsters playing who have to spend some of their evenings/days working to gain a bit of pocket money why should we charge them subs when our first team wouldn't have to pay? How many of those youngsters rely on hand-out from their parents to pay for a pint after the match, etc. What happens if their parents are on the dole?

Are we going to say to a youngster, sorry you can't play for us because you can't pay subs? Are we going to turn players away because their parents can't pay?

No

So the only thing to do is charge at the gate. Everyone pays, covering the cost of the referees, kit washing, equipment, etc.

Too the second point.

I posted on this forum before the season started that Penzance would be charging an entrance fee. As stated above it covers the cost of kit, groundwork, floodlights (as in last nights game), rent, rates, etc.

You say that it is embarrassing for someone to arrive at the ground with no money. Personally I think it is more embarrassing if someone comes up to you during a match and sticks a collecting box under your nose and you've no money. It would be like refusing a charity.

Unfortunately football isn't a free sport to run and too many people expect to get something for nothing.

Having watched a few matches this season, Illogan Reserves would probably beat half a dozen teams in the bottom few places in the combo. Their standard of football is similar or better. So why are people willing to pay £2 to watch a bottom of the table combo side but expect not to pay to watch a top of the Trelawny Premier Division side? You go to watch the standard of football not just to watch a team because they play in a "free League".

One of the reasons I started this posting was to find out who pays subs especially the clubs who have teams in senior and junior football.

Does your junior team have to pay subs whilst your senior side(s) don't? If so what do the junior players think of that?

Do you think your club would attract more players if they didn't have to pay subs, which could be covered by charging an entrance fee?

[S Abbo]

Illogan 2nds and 3rds pay 2 pound on matchdays.. looking at what other teams pay were lucky... however it gets topped up what most spend in the club. :thumbsup:

[cornishteddyboy]

Illogan 2nds and 3rds pay 2 pound on matchdays.. looking at what other teams pay were lucky... however it gets topped up what most spend in the club.

Do you think you should pay when your first team don't because no-one takes money off the spectators? I know you get 30 people watching your Reserve games so roughly 30x£2 = £60.

You wouldn't have to pay.

Do you think people would stop coming to watch you if they were charged a couple of quid?

Doubt it.

They come to watch the team, the standard of football not because it is free.

[S Abbo]

See where your coming from... but what if one week we get say 3 people watch the game. Wouldnt be reliable enough and as its only 2 quid no one really complains.. However its different for pz as i guess they didnt pay last year.

[new ol]

ctb im not picking an arguement but we played on wenseday your players was moaning how long it takes to get the ball back!! i said get your guys to get the balls on when it goes off!! and the lad said we cant afford to many balls..we all team together at gwin to fund raise and pay subs to get threw each year!! And we definetly wont charge on the gate to watch junior football.!!

[St Darren]

Are you allowed to charge to watch junior football?

Go with a box by all means asking for donation, but to charge on the gate??

[Pitty]

Paul I can understand the reasoning behind a club charging a fixed fee but unfortunately in many eyes mine included if their continues to be a two tier system of junior and senior football one of those ways of differentiating the level of football played is a club charging to enter their ground. Many clubs with both a junior and senior side will only charge to enter a ground for the senior side I know for a fact we do it and so do Illogan as well as I'm sure a lot of other clubs who have a trelawny side and one in a more senior league

Your comment on the donation box is very true but if you can get a volunteer to do it obviously it's worthwhile but I think spectators watching trelawny games shouldn't have to pay a 'fixed' fee but feel free to pay an amount of their choice if a club has taken the time and effort to ask....it's like the old church donation it can be either 2p or £2 as long as it makes a rattle as it goes in

On the subject of charging players subs I'm not comfortable only charging the junior side match fees as its not fair and can cause a bit of a split in the two camps I'm a big believer in players understanding the costs it takes to allow them the freedom to compete in a league hence why we charge both teams even though we would normally take on average £25-£30 at a 1st team home gate which is great as it pays the ref but still leaves you short for new footballs, kit & training fees throughout the winter. Unfortunately football costs big bucks clubs just need to find sustainable ways to meet those costs without alienating spectators or driving players away to different clubs......if anyone finds the golden answer can they drop me a line :)

[cornishteddyboy]

Nothing in the rules. You can charge what you like in junior football.

Combo has a rule saying maximum entrance fee £2 but in junior football no such rule.

[Dave Marks]

ctb on pz results so far i know not to turn up to watch and cough up £2.00 as well. I can see you need to fund lights kit etc as pointed out but if you have as many youngsters on board as you say then they have plenty of energy to do some much needed fund raising as already stated. If you have a small but reliable following in the stands perhaps someone would be interested in a fund raiser that would get the whole club interested. Do you have any other events going on at pz that money goes into the club for specifically the football. I watched Illogan res v Carharrack on wednesday night at Illogan but certainly would not of paid £2.00 to watch it. I took my son as well so as a 14yr old it perhaps would cost me £3.00. I enjoyed the game ( abbo was amazing seeing as hes on here) but in all seriousness i would not expect to pay for junior football. You have plus points which clearly make sense, 30 people £60.00 saturdays bills all but covered, but you have a following through being combination, if the rule applied to all i cant see me telling the kid on the motorbike who drove over the pitch 20 mins before kick off that if he wants to rev his throttle all game to wind us up hes got to give me £2.00. Oh theres sheila whos let her dog out the back gate for a s--- Oi sheila £2.00 and bring your shovel as well love cos YEP? :D

[John Mead]

I knew that charging admission for Penzance Reserves home games would be a contentious issue - as it was when Ludgvan did the same last season. However, It's up to each individual Club to make the decision on how things are financed; at Penzance we've always charged admission and will continue to do so. There are few things in life which are free and football isn't one of them. To collect money on the gate is the easiest way of raising the money needed to pay match day expenses - but you have to have an enclosed ground and people to 'man the gate'; we are fortunate to have both. Where else can you get 90 minutes of entertainment for only £2 !

[Roy Keane is GOD!!!]

Pz are glad to take the youngsters that have been paying subs at all the other junior sides around here.!

Maybe if the players that was getting paid in your senior side took a reduction or even played for the shirt and not the money, maybe you would be more financially viable.........

Judging by the responses so far, virtually all the clubs are self sustained, raising their own rent,ref fees and insurance.

Look at all the youngsters now adays, mobile phones, laptops, xbox etc, you cant tell me that they cant afford to pay £2 a week?

[Roy Keane is GOD!!!]

Nothing in the rules. You can charge what you like in junior football.

Combo has a rule saying maximum entrance fee £2 but in junior football no such rule.

Probably because its an unwritten law that no body charges to watch junior football!!

If pz were to drop to div 4 trelawney, would you still charge?

[Roy Keane is GOD!!!]

CTB, I quote " Are we going to turn players away because their parents cant pay, No! " .

So what about the supporters that are on the dole/ financially stricken, they are still expected to pay! Will you turn them away?? Yes!

So, who really needs to be keeping the club going first and foremost?? players, not spectators !

[Phil]

I don't see why players can't be expected to pay subs to play football, its not cheap to run a side or two with all the affiliation fee's, players and public liability insurance, pitch rent, ref's fee, kit wash, winter training and believe it or not someone has to buy at least 1 ball. You have to pay £300 or £400 a year to be a member of a gym, over £500 to join a golf club. Probably £4 quid a session just for a swim, so why not a fiver for football? 30games x £5 = 150 quid for the season. A cheap hobby in comparison.

[Guest smashing pumpkin]

I dont mind paying a fiver if i win

[newlyneastno.10]

I dont mind paying a fiver if i win

Good good mate, as you owe a fiver from when you played 2 weeks ago dude :D

[le boss]

No subs charged at Helston, scratch card done to pay for ref. Players get fines but that goes towards their social do's throughout the season - so all you great players that are skint, you know where to come. Track suits and polos are sponsored and food is laid on after the matches.

When i first read this topic, i wondered why anybody would want to know who has to pay for what - oh yeah - for the cause of journalism - yeah right. Think this will be used as advertisement by managers as above lol.

Why the continual, almost obsessive, fascination with the finances of clubs? Maybe when we play our next game I will ask our opponents for their income tax returns. Does it really make any difference???

[Guest]

Age to play mens football now a days.... 16. Pretty sure the "youngsters" at penzance can get little part time jobs! Bet they can always afford a saturday night out, etc! This is junior football for f*** sake! Most of the guys on the local football scene have had to pay subs ever since they started!

Just think its wrong, as I bet you (penzance) are the only ground in junior football people will have to pay admission for! Absolutely shambolic!

[cornishteddyboy]

This thread wasn't intended to be about Pz or become a let's bash Pz thread.

I wanted to find out

1. Do junior players pay whilst their senior players don't

2. Do players pay less the lower down the Trelawny Divisions a team is.

3. How big a variation there is in a typical division

4. Ideas to raise money to keep clubs going that other clubs might find interesting.

5. Do players who play on council pitches have to pay more than players who play for clubs that own their own ground.

That was all!

[scotchio]

think you found your answers :P

[Dave Marks]

I wanted to find out

1. Do junior players pay whilst their senior players don't

2. Do players pay less the lower down the Trelawny Divisions a team is.

3. How big a variation there is in a typical division

4. Ideas to raise money to keep clubs going that other clubs might find interesting.

5. Do players who play on council pitches have to pay more than players who play for clubs that own their own ground.

That was all!

Think to be fair ctb thats self explanatory . You will find that almost all junior teams have to contribute something, and more or less its similar amounts if evened out over the trelawney league, certainly amongst the pub clubs, social clubs, with the exception of helston, PZ, and probably a few more big boys. Im not having a dig at pz personally, and the question is a cracking one to of asked, its nice to hear from a senior club/junior as well now how you foresee it all. perhaps i should not hang out our financial side but we play out of the Camborne cricket club and use a council pitch as stated previously the two costs us around £500 per season before we start on the rest. I believe in my opinion that to run a junior club for 1 season including most costs would set you around £1,800 without kits tops etc.& balls. We take £3 per game over 30 league games £90 x 11 at minimum = £990.00 plus some sub money & cup games but only around half of the target. We have a superb sponsor in Duchy Hampers who give us funding, and the rest is fund raising. Dont start me on the fund raising but its anything from horse racing nights at the club to sponsored bike rides from your lovely Lands end to the cricket club. I cycled from the road entrance of the cricket club to the gate this year about 80 metres, bloody exhausting Poor bike frames all bent and its out of shape now like me. :D

[cornishteddyboy]

In the last 12 months we've organised 2 race nights, a quiz night and ladies night in our clubhouse, The Magpies Venue. We've also had a sponsored walk and one of our supporters runs a weekly stall outside of the clubhouse selling nick-nacks, etc

What is annoying though, this all this is organised, run and supported by our supporters. The players don't do anything, just a few turn up to the events. Frustrating.

[Guest BenTheYeti]

In the last 12 months we've organised 2 race nights, a quiz night and ladies night in our clubhouse, The Magpies Venue. We've also had a sponsored walk and one of our supporters runs a weekly stall outside of the clubhouse selling nick-nacks, etc

What is annoying though, this all this is organised, run and supported by our supporters. The players don't do anything, just a few turn up to the events. Frustrating.

Without wanting to sound like I'm having a pop, because I'm not.. I think you'll find that in most of the Trelawny League, the supporters of the clubs are the players themselves. Our attendance goes up 582549% whenever one of the teams is playing at home and the other doesn't have a game

[Nelly Furtado]

What is annoying though, this all this is organised, run and supported by our supporters. The players don't do anything, just a few turn up to the events. Frustrating.

You've identified the issue you have ctb, so you should be able to improve the situation over the course of the season. In my opinion the biggest problem clubs will have in getting players involved in fundraising is changing their attitudes. Rather than players essentially just using the clubs so they can play football on a Saturday, they need to be actively engaged in the running of the club and be made to feel like they are more than just a player in a team. If they get bought in to what the club is trying to achieve (which in most cases is to be competitive at as high a standard as possible, but doing it with a smile on your face) then they are more likely to want to get involved. Get players engaged in the club, build a good atmosphere, and you will be surprised how willing players are to get involved.

I think you will then see less turnover in players, and as a result improved fundraising.

I can speak both from the position of a player and a club administrator, and the biggest problem to fundraising comes from the lack of loyalty to clubs. Minimise that as much a possible, and the more attached players become to the club, the more likely they are to get actively involved.

[Roy Keane is GOD!!!]

What is annoying though, this all this is organised, run and supported by our supporters. The players don't do anything, just a few turn up to the events. Frustrating.

You've identified the issue you have ctb, so you should be able to improve the situation over the course of the season. In my opinion the biggest problem clubs will have in getting players involved in fundraising is changing their attitudes. Rather than players essentially just using the clubs so they can play football on a Saturday, they need to be actively engaged in the running of the club and be made to feel like they are more than just a player in a team. If they get bought in to what the club is trying to achieve (which in most cases is to be competitive at as high a standard as possible, but doing it with a smile on your face) then they are more likely to want to get involved. Get players engaged in the club, build a good atmosphere, and you will be surprised how willing players are to get involved.

I think you will then see less turnover in players, and as a result improved fundraising.

I can speak both from the position of a player and a club administrator, and the biggest problem to fundraising comes from the lack of loyalty to clubs. Minimise that as much a possible, and the more attached players become to the club, the more likely they are to get actively involved.

Unfortunatley there is not alot of loyality in junior football any more. When you have the likes of St Day, Penzance etc paying people to play how can we, at grass roots compete with that? I agree with what you say, get the players involved, get them paying and give them a sense of purpose, even if its only a quid.

The club i was associated with has sponsorship with a local social club, they dont get any money in hand, they give us 30 drill tops and we arrange 3/4 social nights back at their place, ie darts, pool, euchre etc... it gets the club together as a unit, we help the sponsor and we have a few social pints!! ( then the club sells the tops to the players) :smiley20: