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Important rule change vote to take place at trelawny league agm -rolling subs


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The "no - no - no" camp all appear to be assuming that should a rule change such as this happen, all clubs/managers/players and so on would be inclined (or bound) to exercise the new rules in their full glory every 5 minutes of every game. Why would the game become "Americanised"? Are we all thinking that at our level, we will have players that may have been substituted and are brought back on for a free kick situation only to be substituted again after he blazes it over the bar? Or the "special defence team" that comes on for corners, and goes off again after the 6ft centre-forward has scored!! That is the joke in all this.

The concept of the rule change proposal is to allow more particiption in the sport. What on earth is wrong with that? Should we perhaps go back to the good old days (1970's) and eliminate substitutions altogether? "No" I hear you say.....why not? That was a change introduced which I think has benefited the game, and I do not recall any players having to wear skirts after that rule change.

The other thing people have been banging on about is the unfair advantage that teams who turn up with 5 subs have over teams who turn up with the bare 11. And......? What is the difference between that and the team that presently has 3 subs to nil. No one is complaining about that. The "availability" of 2 additional subs is not going to make any significant or measurable difference.

Think about it guys. Five subs.....what kind of quality is going to be sitting on the bench? All 5 subs are going to be superstars? Unlikely. The likelihood is that more youngsters may start playing, and the subs bench will be a mixture of young guys just starting out and a couple of old geezers (yours truly). The main team will remain settled, and the change will have a poistive impact on grass-roots football participation.

It is right to debate a subject like this, but some decent reasons need to be put forward for each side. From what I read here, the reasons for the introduction are far more credible than the "reasons" that are against it.

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Guest BenTheYeti

Aside from some of the dafter comments that have been made on this subject, good points have been raised on both sides of the argument, and it'll surely fire up the AGM somewhat!

I think I'll always be against the idea in it's current format, as in that there is the potential for limitless numbers of substitutions to take place. I personally feel that in matches such as pre season friendlies, it alters the pace of the game, or rather, disrupts any sort of flow. I know we're all mostly a bunch of cobbled together hoofers (well, that's always been the tactic at Halsetown..) and we play the game for the enjoyment of being out there on a Saturday afternoon with your mates, and that it is all about the participation. But my concerns still remain about trying to implement something like this so soon into a league structure very much in its infancy. And you can guarantee that for every team/manager/player that uses the system in a "correct" manner, there will be those that use it to (for want of a better term) spoil the game.

If I were king, I'd like to try extend the number of permitted substitutes in a game as has been muted above, we've all been a situation where there's 4 or 5 of you on the bench, and you wait somewhat anxiously for the manager to make the 1st, 2nd and then 3rd change only to realise you're not coming on.

Anyway, at the end of the day, if we do or if we don't vote this in, let's remember that it comes from a Football Authority much much higher than the lil ol'Trelawny League, and that you can bet it'll be trialled somewhere soon, and if it's there will for us to play with rolling subs, then there's nothing we can do about it.

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Great post Mangle.

I think that a lot of the players that are against this rule are more concerned about it reducing their own playing time rather than trying to improve our game for everyone.

The only reasonable argument against this is whether it would cause too many stoppages and disrupt the flow of the game.

I've heard it suggested elsewhere that if all the subs were to give the ref their names and have their studs checked at the beginning of the game then you could remove the necessity for every sub having to go up to the ref and give their name when they come one. All you would need to do is wait for a natural break in the game, signal to the ref that a sub is being made and as long as the ref checks that a player has left the field of play and another has come on then you really wouldn't be looking at too long a stoppage.

I'm still unsure but am certainly open to the idea, I'd like to see us trial the use of 5 subs using the normal format for a season first.

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Guest Monty

From a referees point of view it could be chaotic, There are too many leagues and junior teams, i.e if you cant get in one side there will be another side close by. Generally teams struggle to make a half decent squad to fulfill fixtures on saturdays and even harder midweek, so i personally dont see the need for a 16 man squad every fixture and it will just take the competitive side away from the game. On another hand it should work for the sunday league, Womens football and kids football because there are not too many clubs around and plus kids football they just want to play with there mates.

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Guest Monty

Hi Darren,

it normally takes 30 secs a sub and if both teams have 3 subs each it could add on 3 minutes which is acceptable, But if you allow each team to make 5 subs each just once that then has added 5 minutes which is also acceptable, If they decide to roll on roll off then you could be looking at least double figure minutes added on and thats without injuries etc etc. Its enough in my opinion to just have a max of 5 subs and allowed to use 5 subs there is no need to roll on roll off because some clubs will use it to try and waste time or disrupt the pattern of the game to there advantage which is wrong. Just my opinion.

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ah, my apologies, you're talking about the 5 sub rule!

imagine how long a game with Larry reffing will take. Roll on roll off wouldn't be a problem, there shouldn't be a delay in it. at the moment, you generally wait until the player has taken his position, ie: right back or something, but roll on roll off, getting the player off is the main thing.

but yeah, what you say I can see that it could be a nightmare

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id ask you the same question, there is no merit in any of the arguments that have been made for the introduction of this rule.

Participation should be increased by exploring other avenues.

Perhaps it would be worth looking to into why there are so many junior sides folding, In the Falmouth-Penryn area alone over we have lost over 50% of junior sides in the last 5 years.

It can be frustrating as a player looking for opportunities but I think the answer is to put the effort in training, and small sides leagues are a good alternative.

Look if you just want a kick about, go and play football in the park with your mates, don't try and change the rules . especially if its because your too old to play 90 mins as one person said, hang up your boots and give someone else a chance.

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Guest Monty

To cut a long story short, I dont think we in Cornwall have a problem of players not playing at grasssroot level its more of a problem that clubs cant attract players because there are so many teams in a close proximity. Its hard enough running a club that finds it difficult to get 11 players every week let alone a sleepy village with 2 sides. Like i said before just introduce 5 subs with 5 subs to be used at JCCL/ ECPLand below and see how it works.

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as a reserves manager at a club with two teams ( we used to have three), i`d like to say yes to five subs but NO to rolling subs.This season we`ve barely managed to field 11 or 12 at best due to first team commitments.( THIS WILL CHANGE DUE TO NEW FIRST TEAM MANAGEMENT)Put that bare squad against a one team club who have 16 good players and i think there is an unfair advantage.Also i just don`t think rolling subs is football.As a manager i have a job to do and thats to pick my best 11 and know that i`m allowed X amount of subs but once they are off they stay off whether its 3 or 5.Please dont belittle the game i love after i`ve only just rekindled my "love " for the game...which i`ve payed for in one cracked heel, two cracked ribs and a fractured ankle and thats all this season...someones getting older!

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i know that is not true monty, there is a problem with people not playing. just go and have a look at the squad sizes on the fa site.

As a manager i have a job to do and thats to pick my best 11 and know that i`m allowed X amount of subs but once they are off they stay off whether its 3 or 5

I agree with that, but 5 subs is half a team, it is too big a change.... and what a waste of time for 5 people if you dont use them

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"i know that is not true monty, there is a problem with people not playing. just go and have a look at the squad sizes on the fa site."

Have you considered that the size of some squads, and I include ours on this, is so large due to unavailability rather than being regular week in week out?

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id ask you the same question, there is no merit in any of the arguments that have been made for the introduction of this rule.

Participation should be increased by exploring other avenues.

Perhaps it would be worth looking to into why there are so many junior sides folding, In the Falmouth-Penryn area alone over we have lost over 50% of junior sides in the last 5 years.

It can be frustrating as a player looking for opportunities but I think the answer is to put the effort in training, and small sides leagues are a good alternative.

Look if you just want a kick about, go and play football in the park with your mates, don't try and change the rules . especially if its because your too old to play 90 mins as one person said, hang up your boots and give someone else a chance.

I've been involved for a long time with a small team that has come close to folding over resent seasons and I'm telling you , I'm not sugesting to you I'M TELLING YOU THAT 5 SUBS WILL HELP RESOLVE THE PROBLEM

Superb idea no lad should turn up and take off a clean unused kit at the end of the game at this level of football it has to be about enjoyment and for a team like mine with no reserves , I always start with a squad of 16/17 players pre season and end up in February with a bare 11 as you can not keep more than 14 players happy , the lad who turns up for the 1st few weeks and doesn't get a game moves on so come mid winter a couple of injuries and work commitments plus your star player who has been promised the world be a senior team but in fact is warming their bench your down to 11 , I personally think this gives us smaller teams a better chance to keep a squad together so to be able to give 16 players a good run out each and every week is a huge thumbs up !! :thumbsup:

.

As for the 5 sub rule I for one have been screaming for it ever since taking up coaching , I've said it above and I've said before on here it is near impossible to coach a one team club and keep it competitive for a full season with a squad of 14 . We have had lots of topics on here about reasons why so many junior teams can't for fill fixtures through out the season or have to fold all together one very very big step will help this and as a small club which came very very close to folding during a difficult period having a squad of 16 rather than 14 would be a step in the right direction instead of people moaning when these teams cancel games let's try and understand and find solutions to help prevent it in the first place.

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love this idea ! brill! i could play 20 mins then come of for some light refreshment and check my facebook page. then go back on for a while ---- can i come off again later as my e-mails may need sorting or will i have to stay on and get dirty knees?

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Guest BenTheYeti

To quote one of our lads today "what a great idea, that way I could be on and off every 15 minutes, which means I could go out every Friday and get s***faced!"

FACT:

Rolling Subs breeds alcoholism

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Pro's and Con's? Does it matter?

Not for me, as a manager regardless of 3 subs, 3 subs rolling, 5 subs, 5 subs rolling, it wouldn't matter a jot.

The reason being as a manager I would pick what I thought was my best 11 at the start and make substitutions based on gaining a strategic advantage, fresh legs or injuries. The same principle would apply to any "subs" ruling.

If I thought rolling subs on and off would disrupt the team and hinder any chance of winning a game, I just wouldn't do it.

In all, it just doesn't matter.

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It's not just in Cornwall that the FA wants to try this out; the Amateur Football Combination (one of the largest leagues in the country) is also proposed to be a test area.

I get the sense that it's likely to come in in a couple of years anyway (the FA has always been very keen on the idea, and have been pushing the IFAB to include it in the laws of the game for a while now).

I'd certainly like to see it being given a trial here

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The Football Association has received the approval of the International Football Association Board to pilot a 'Rolling Substitutes' scheme for leagues outside of the National League System (i.e. leagues below Step 7) for a period of 2 years. The decision as to whether to take part in this nationwide pilot or not, and if so how many substitutes will be allowed, will be voted upon at the League AGM. All Club Secretary's have received a copy of the FA trial document which is also attached to this notice. Club officials, team managers and players are encouraged to discuss this document within their clubs prior to the League AGM.

Steve Carpenter

Full Details on the Pilot can be found at: Link

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