margo Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Ref injured hamstring - match abandoned at half-time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Interesting, I thought the senior assistant would have taken over the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south devon Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 see report on Lge website Premier Division Forum thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floss27 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Heard that neither assistant was qualified enough to take over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanks Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 So from reading this report, St Austell are to blame?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 without doubt, and it would have cost over £400.00 for half a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Mansour Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 The link to the comment from the league secretary on the forum thread: http://www.swpleague.co.uk/swpforum/viewtopic.php?t=3599 As a player for St. Austell today it was very disappointing to have the game prematurely ended party by confusion over rules and partly due to Liskeard's unwillingness to play the second half. Having traveled back from Plymouth where i live due to being at university i find it ridiculous that we were unable to complete the fixture. We return to the changing rooms at half time only for the referee to say he is unfit to continue. Shortly after we hear that there is another official available to take over as linesman - game on we think. The referee then states that both managers have to agree to the change of officials - which is not the case. Liskeard for reasons best known to themselves at 1-1 refused to continue as the referee said they had a right to. The financial implications of the abandonment for both clubs will be a major inconvenience as it will be for the spectators who paid to watch these two teams play. Rather embarrassing for all involved. As a footballer i struggle to understand why on a Saturday afternoon you would not want to play football if the option is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubman Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Does this mean that some of our Senior(level 4) referees don't read the league handbooks that are supplied to them each season and are uncertain about the correct procedures ? Having read the CWSPL secs reply where the blame apportioned to the referee, will he now be brought before the league and dealt with accordingly ?. You cannot penalise either team as it was not their fault and to do so would be unjustified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Was the nominated linesman anything to do with either club ?? Or have any links to either?, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Ref injured, half game played, no official ref to continue? Where ' s the arguement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Mansour Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Ref injured, half game played, no official ref to continue? Where ' s the arguement? Both linesmen are official, qualified referees the senior linesman is supposed to take over refereeing duties. There lies the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Cornwall Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I think there is no argument. Surely there would of had to be another qualified official (4th) around in case either linesman or referee got injured as neither linesman would be able to take over from the referee unless there was another qualified referee, which is my argument that the league should at least begin to consider free courses for club linesman in the western league/promoted clubs to premier from east or west. That way they would be able to be considered to take over duties had a referee or another official be injured then it would stop these wasted journeys and fines. Also, if there are no games for a club linesman in the western league they could be considered to assist a premier game to gain experience. Thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2000 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Martin Mchugh, the arguement is..... one or all of the officials that officiated this fixture were able to replace the named referee, i believe this to be a ****-up for want of a better description, not sure of the repercussion's, i don't blame either manager but feel sorry for all us supporters who will again travel and pay to watch the replay. I hope this gives you an explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Thought that both clubs had to agree to to the changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Cornwall Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Martin Mchugh, the arguement is..... one or all of the officials that officiated this fixture were able to replace the named referee, i believe this to be a ****-up for want of a better description, not sure of the repercussion's, i don't blame either manager but feel sorry for all us supporters who will again travel and pay to watch the replay. I hope this gives you an explanation. r2000 another qualified assistant that is the same or higher level than a club linesman level would have to be sent to watch the game in case an official gets injured. This means that there is no other qualified official to be able to take over the assistant that takes over the referee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Mansour Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 There was one present on this occasion who was wiling to take over linesman, obviously if this was not the case there would have been no choice. Martin Mchugh both clubs do not have to agree according to the comment from the league the referee believed this to be the case however and by mistake informed Liskeard they did have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Do both teams have to agree to to the changes???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Mansour Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 No the comment from the league secretary clarified this. The referee at the St Austell vs Liskeard game thought they did so offered both teams an option whether or not to continue. Liskeard chose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 So who is to blame, the Teams, the officials, the league, someone needs to clarify this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 So who is to blame, the Teams, the officials, the league, someone needs to clarify this? Make your won judgement from the League's Press Release copied below from the Thisiscornwall site:- The Carlsberg South West Peninsula League have issued an apology to supporters who were at Poltair Park, where the premier division game between St Austell and Liskeard Athletic was controversially abandoned at half-time with the score at 1-1. Referee Martin Ault of Redruth suffered a recurrence of a hamstring injury in the first half and decided he could not continue. A Level 6 official from Somerset, in the crowd on his holiday, agreed to step in to run the line if the senior assistant linesman took over from the referee, and both teams took to the field for the second half. But when Liskeard manager Darren Edwards was offered that scenario, he refused to restart the game and Mr Ault decided to abandon it. Peninsula League secretary Phil Hiscox said: "The result does not stand and the match will be re-scheduled. "The circumstances of the matter have been investigated and I have this evening spoken to both club secretaries and the match referee. "The matchday referee was unable to continue due to injury and it was agreed that the senior assistant referee would replace him. The matter then became confused with the choice of linesman to replace the assistant referee. "St Austell nominated a person, the referee wrongly under rules, but in good faith, offered Liskeard the option of accepting this replacement or not, Liskeard believing it was their right to refuse, did so. "The host club did not contact me at the critical time and as such the matter could not be resolved while all were still in attendance at the ground. "In summary it could be suggested that all three parties did not fully follow the relevant rules, and appropriate guidance will be issued. "The league wishes to apologise to all spectators that attended Poltair this afternoon." Edwards said: "It is the first time something like this has happened to me in my football career. "I was not prepared to carry on with the risk of poor decisions affecting my players. If things had gone against us and we had lost our discipline, we could have been affected by suspensions three or four games down the line." St Austell player-manager Garry Penhaligon said he was 'bemused' by Liskeard's refusal to continue playing but said it was up to officials from the league and the two clubs to sort things out. Ryan Richards had given Liskeard a second minute lead before Will Tinsley drove in a 37th minute free kick from Jay Isbell to equalise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Replay. sorted. Goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Mansour Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 The referee made an honest mistake by offering the option of not playing to Liskeard and stating the rules required this. Not sure why St Austell would question the referee and ring the league - the referee's decision is final ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2000 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I stand corrected MR Cornwall, i still found it very hard to understand why todays game didn't continue, i thought that every fixture at this level had two qualified referee's present, oh well a replay it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adlestrop Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Am I to understand that the referee,Martin Ault, is the person who trains referees in Cornwall ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 can of worms now open!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomy Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 The fault here has to lie with the ref. Apparently he injured his hamstring on Wed evening at bodmin so why did he not inform anyone? If he did then a replacement should have been on standby. He turned up, got his expenses and cost a lot of people money. Can't blame liskeard for not wanting to carry on. One linesman was about 80 and one 14...neither could have done the middle. Best to play it when there are three proper officials. As it was, I could've seen liskeard going on to win, they had gone up the slope and had created the better chances, although st austell did get lots of ball into the box. Look forward to watching the replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2000 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Referee's have a tough job making on the spot decisions without any time to use hindsight, often making honest mistakes, today seems like another mistake on this occasion from Martin Ault, no doubt he will take some stick from the sidelines in the future for this gaff,. if Mr Ault coaches and teaches our up and coming referee's then now i understand why we supporters get so irate, we are all human!!! Martin Ault owes all us supporters a pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McHugh Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Lager please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2000 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Martin, right decision....you got that spot on. lo l :drink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave the rave Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Another complete **** up in my eyes. Surely in the top division of the top league of Cornish football the supporters and players are entitled to expect better than this. About time Ray brown started being a little more accountable for these miserable shortcomings in his ranks. Nobody seems to know the rules ?!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floss27 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 The referee should not have taken the fixture after pulling his hamstring at Bodmin on Wednesday evening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish-Ref Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 What has not been stated is that - for a referee to officiate in a SWPPL game, the referee must be qualified to Level 4. The two assistants were Level 6 and level 5 therefore not qualified to take the middle unless the CCFA and the league gave consent. I'm not siding with blame, but just raising the point, that even if the game had continued, it may have continued with a lower standard of refereeing in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Mansour Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 What has not been stated is that - for a referee to officiate in a SWPPL game, the referee must be qualified to Level 4. The two assistants were Level 6 and level 5 therefore not qualified to take the middle unless the CCFA and the league gave consent. I'm not siding with blame, but just raising the point, that even if the game had continued, it may have continued with a lower standard of refereeing in the middle. For one half i'm sure that refereeing one level below would have been fine and the league secretary indicated that a linesman SHOULD take over in the case of an injured referee. Never heard anything like this before couldn't believe with all the people there to watch and with two teams having been put on the field we had to end the game before its completion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Cornish Ref, not quite right with your post i`m afraid, in the event of a referee unable to carry on then the senior assistant takes over the game and in this case a level 5 is qualified, you then use the best volunteer available to act as assistant. The clubs have no say in this it`s the referee`s decision and it`s the decisions of the referee taking over as he is now the referee for that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 well its happened now, end of story, pointless arguement, re arranged game. job done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Who travels down on holiday with their ref gear in the boot of the car?! I heard it was one of the St Austell fans who was qualified and willing to do it. Mixed messages or chinese whispers. Either way ref got it wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppit Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Jimmy Hill took over as linesman in an old Div 1 match in the 1960's as per national rules this applies in any league in the country as far as i know. The 3 officials should know this all club officials should know this including the managers, so everyone involved is to blame.In my day as a ref this happened a few times and was never a problem. As soon as a replacement takes the field he or she is qualified to officiate in that match regardless of their level, even if they are plucked from the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Please take off your blinkers, the referee is not the only one to blame, what about the club refusing to accept the replacements and unwilling to continue. Reference the Jimmy Hill scenario in fact he was then only a class 3 in those days the bottom rung so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floss27 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 So its not the referee's fault if he gave the teams the otions to carry on, when quite clearly that should not have happened - referee's decision is final I always thought...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slicedbread Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Who travels down on holiday with their ref gear in the boot of the car?! I heard it was one of the St Austell fans who was qualified and willing to do it. Mixed messages or chinese whispers. Either way ref got it wrong... If that was the case or what was being said don't blame Darren Edwards for refusing to play second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomy Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Like I have already said....none of this would have been an issue had the ref not turned up to game already injured. I don't care what level the linesmen were....one was 80 and the other 14. None wudve done a job...whether for 45mins or 5mins. Blame lies with injured ref not being honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 bloomy, looking at the list I think you are not being fair on the assistants of course they could have done the job, in going back to my dim distant past I was thrown in the deep end when the appointed referee failed to show I officiated as referee between Dunstable Town v Barton Rovers (very local derby) that season I had just qualified as a Class 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppit Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Like I have already said....none of this would have been an issue had the ref not turned up to game already injured. I don't care what level the linesmen were....one was 80 and the other 14. None wudve done a job...whether for 45mins or 5mins. Blame lies with injured ref not being honest. I see your point but the correct procedure should have been followed, why didn't someone call a league official to clarify the situation if [which i find hard to believe] no one knew the rules, surely someone must have had a rule book. Blame an individual if you wish but as i said in earlier post everyone involved is to blame. The refs opinion is only final if laws are correctly applied which in this case they clearly were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argyle Fan Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 You'll never get a referee to admit he is wrong. Each of the club secretaries will have a copy of the League handbook and I know Phil Hiscox has spare copies which he makes available to referees etc. It took me a couple of minutes to find the relevant rule, rule 15.3 on page 73 of the current season's handbook. I believe the rules are issued by the FA and are the same for all Leagues in the Pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppit Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 You'll never get a referee to admit he is wrong. Each of the club secretaries will have a copy of the League handbook and I know Phil Hiscox has spare copies which he makes available to referees etc. It took me a couple of minutes to find the relevant rule, rule 15.3 on page 73 of the current season's handbook. I believe the rules are issued by the FA and are the same for all Leagues in the Pyramid. The ref must have guessed his decision as it was incorrect, he can only apoligise which i am sure he will. Did Mr Edwards know the rules ? Seems he didn't so he is as much to blame as the ref, if he had known the rules the match would have been completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Did Mr Edwards know the rules ? Or perhaps he did and realising others didn't, preferred not to play on because he wanted to give his team a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adlestrop Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I wonder if Mr.Ault handed back half of his fee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppit Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I wonder if Mr.Ault handed back half of his fee? I wonder if Mr Edwards handed back half of his.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave the rave Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Surely all referee's at this level should be expected to know what the correct procedures are in the event that they get injured, basic. Maybe the elusive mr ray brown can come out and tell us all how such unacceptable incompetence is dealt with in the best interest of the respect campaign, don't hold your breath though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green Hornet Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Another complete **** up in my eyes. Surely in the top division of the top league of Cornish football the supporters and players are entitled to expect better than this. About time Ray brown started being a little more accountable for these miserable shortcomings in his ranks. Nobody seems to know the rules ?!!!! Where was Moneyman he would have sorted it, would'nt he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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