Shameful performance, Read Mutterings for one good reason why.

[Steve Massey]

Now is the time for a clear out, An English Manager, English players with pride who recognize what it is to represent your Country. Not a team of overpaid, over pampered and overrated players.

These players have the talent but the celebrity status and life styles these players lead have taken the edge, hunger and desire out of representing our country.

Please read my Mutterings written last Wednesday, there on my page is the one big reason for our failure and will continue to fail until we all get back to basics.

The Germans are not paid anywhere near the monies of our English so called stars. They live ordinary every day lives, not cloistered or worshipped by agents only interested in putting monies into their own pockets.

Bring in an English Manger now, Relegate these players to the past, cut the foreign players in to the premiership. We need to start building a team to represent our Country with pride and passion.

Lets get back to ALL OUR TEAMS BEING OWNED BY BRITONS, not this nonsense we have now, where everyone from all over the world wants a share. What do they care about our National game? Even the Chelsea chairman sits on the panel so oversee the next appointment of the Russian team manager!! I'm sure he very feels passionate about our England team and where we finish in the tournaments!!

The FA ought to take much of the blame, do not let them believe any of our coaches, managers can not do a better job.

Do we really want to feel like this again? I know I don't want to sit watching overpaid, overrated and uninspired players.

I want to see Joe Public, that's me and you, stand up and do something about this. Boycott buying the England shirt, boycott the Premiership, The HIGHEST HONOUR IN THE GAME IS TO REPRESENT YOUR COUNTRY! NOT TO EARN OVER £100,000 A WEEK!!

Get rid of the agents, believe me THEY ARE THE REASONS FOR DRIVING UP THE WAGES AND PUSHING THIS CELEBRITY LIFE STYLES!

They are the leeches of the game, sucking money out and lining their own pockets. They are only interested in what monies they can earn for themselves, for over 100 years some of the finest footballers in the world managed to survive without them. Kick them out of the game now.

Greed, Greed and more greed, from the Premiership Chairmen down to the Agents and Top brass at the FA, they are all at it. Football should be given back to the ordinary people. For years it was always a working mans game, then came the agents, Hospitalities and huge monies from commercial and sponsors only interested in themselves.

Until the desire and Honour of WANTING TO PLAY FOR YOUR COUNTRY, IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR, in our future footballers eyes AND THE FOOTBALL CLUBS IN THE PREMIERSHIP, we will continue to fail at all tournaments.

Germany took the decision in the early 80's to concentrate on pushing MORE home grown players through and closed the door on many of the over seas players.

The clubs are all behind their country, IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT OBJECTIVE IN THE GERMAN GAME, and that is their national team. And to those German players Money is not the driving force with any of them, it's representing your Country.

Read my Mutterings "Cloistered Stars not in touch with Reality", you might or might not agree with me, But I know one thing for certain, to sit and watch that performance this afternoon hurt. It was a hurt I don't want to feel or see again.

It's about time we all took our heads out of the sand, these players have proved they are NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO DO IT AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. The system has failed them, and until that changes and the mindsets of those in charge of our game are changed we will go on failing at the highest level.

It comes down to what we want from our football? If we want the best league in the World, we have it, BUT ITS TO THE DETRIMENT OF OUR NATIONAL TEAM.

For me and I would think millions like me, I would love to have sat there this afternoon and seen England at least match their opposition and come close to actually WINNING a European or World Cup!!

We can still have the best league in the World, BUT LET'S DEMAND WE ARE GIVEN BACK OUR NATIONAL PRIDE AND TEAM, PLEASE!

Mass

A disillusioned an angry England Supporter!

[Dave Deacon]

It comes down to what we want from our football? If we want the best league in the World, we have it, BUT ITS TO THE DETRIMENT OF OUR NATIONAL TEAM.

For me and I would think millions like me, I would love to have sat there this afternoon and seen England at least match their opposition and come close to actually WINNING a European or World Cup!!

Blame Sky TV! Sorry Steve, I think there are far too many people out there that would much rather watch their club side do well, with not an English born player in sight, rather than watch a League that helps its national side by restricting the number of foreigners!

[Adlestrop]

Excellent summing up,Steve:

But is the Premiership really the best League in the world ? I see little evidence to suppoprt this.

[Dave Deacon]

But is the Premiership really the best League in the world ? I see little evidence to suppoprt this.

Don't know about the world, but certainly the number of English clubs in the last rounds of the Champions League in recent seasons has to be paramount as evidence?

[Goldeneye]

An English Manager, English players

Unfortunately we’ve tried that for most of the time since 1966 and that didn’t work either. Failed to even qualify on three occasions!

In my opinion the coaches who teach our kids have not been good enough. The vast majority of foreign players can use both feet, are better athletes and overall technically better. Much was made of needing Barry because he had a good left foot, but I would have preferred a player who was good with both feet!!

A couple of seasons ago I was watching a youth game at 12 year old level. One boy was particularly good, but the parents on the side were shouting ‘bring him down’, ‘bring him down’. I’m afraid we get what we deserve.

The ‘up and at ‘em’ style of football in our league, although liked by the fans, is not suited to winning the World Cup.

[Pablo]

For me Rooney was the biggest disaster of all. He did nothing throughout the four games to suggest he is a world-class footballer. Rooney was dismal, a failure! Yes England were second-rate but Rooney was third-rate in my opinion.

[Adlestrop]

Don't know about the world, but certainly the number of English clubs in the last rounds of the Champions League in recent seasons has to be paramount as evidence?

In John Terry's case "paramount" ought to read "paramour"

[gashead1980]

You can see it means a lot to the players but they were just better than us! Barry and Rooney did not look fit, Gerrard kept giving the ball away and the defence were all over the place! Has nothing to do with money, they were trying, Rooney was picking the ball up in the centre back position near the end of the game, if anything he tries to hard, for United he stays were Ferguson wants him, up top.

[south devon]

Totally agree Steve, ive been saying for sometime now maybe they should look to the Championship for players who would be proud to give everything for their Country. Every player that took part in the World Cup for us should never be allowed to put on an England shirt again. How about Stuart Pearce and David Beckham given the task of searching for new England players with the pride and passion they always showed for their country.

[Bobby66]

Totally agree Steve, ive been saying for sometime now maybe they should look to the Championship for players who would be proud to give everything for their Country. Every player that took part in the World Cup for us should never be allowed to put on an England shirt again. How about Stuart Pearce and David Beckham given the task of searching for new England players with the pride and passion they always showed for their country.

How about doing something really simple:

1) Don't play John Terry again - too slow, and caught out of position yet again for 3 of Germany's goals. Gets bailed out week in week out for Chelsea by the pace of Carvalho. When Alex plays Terry looks poor

2) What did Lampard bring to the party? Cant tackle or pass, yet Gerrard, consistently England's best centre midfielder gets moved out of position to accommodate him.

3) Give Rooney a foil to play off, with a goal threat - Crouch must surely have the best games to goals record in international football yet didn't play a minute.Yet we still bring on Heskey???

Rant over

[Goldeneye]

How about doing something really simple:

1) Don't play John Terry again - too slow, and caught out of position yet again for 3 of Germany's goals. Gets bailed out week in week out for Chelsea by the pace of Carvalho. When Alex plays Terry looks poor

2) What did Lampard bring to the party? Cant tackle or pass, yet Gerrard, consistently England's best centre midfielder gets moved out of position to accommodate him.

3) Give Rooney a foil to play off, with a goal threat - Crouch must surely have the best games to goals record in international football yet didn't play a minute.Yet we still bring on Heskey???

Rant over

Agree with every word of that. Some of the commentators were having a go at Upson, but Terry was the one who was out of position most of the time!

[St Darren]

I have to admit, I'm one that would rather see Liverpool win the Carling Cup than England win the World Cup, thats cos its more important to me! the club game is bigger than the national game, thats the way it is! Liverpool have been rubbish this year, but I reckon they'd have beaten England this year! we're not as good as people think we are! we should be out to 15/1 something like that, not 7/1.

Upson has got grief tonight! Terry was the man out of position. We play players to accommodate them! Gerrard shouldn't be out on the left! if you want to play Barry and Lampard, then leave Gerrard out and play someone who can play at Left Midfield. Spain manage to leave out Fabrigas!!!

technically, as I've said all along, we are nowhere near it, haven't been for years, 96 was the last time we looked anything like it!! (and that year has a lot to answer for, with all the women in the pubs, the "football's coming home" bollocks, the flags on the cars!!) we don't look comfortable on the ball, we panic if we've played more than 5 passes to each other.

Still, just the 2 years to get excited about things again!!!

[Steve Massey]

I agree with everything thats been said, including a very valid point about Sky TV. In fact I meant to have a rant about that as well!

Golden Eye makes an excellent point about not enough qualified coaches, teaching the basics of the game. But my experience is of these coaches only coaching at a younger age group.

But they fortunately do not have anything to do with the boys who work there way up into the youth teams and beyond with the Pro clubs, so the poor coaches don't really have that much if any, contact with the ones making the break through, but take your point and could be argued how many boys have they stopped coming through?!

Sky TV as taken the game into another orbit since it came to being in the 1990's. It's played right into the hands of the celebrity culture of this country.

Unfortunately, the players that have been caught up in it and believing all their publicity, reminds me very much like our performances in tournaments! lots of presentation, hype and self endorsements, but not much SUBSTANCE!

So while Sky have been at the centre of this hyping up of our game and particularly our players!, What happens is the average player thinks he's quite good now, The good one thinks he's very good and so on!

Not for one minute though, do I think we have lost again in the World Cup because of Sky, but they have become the platform, for the many publicity obsessed companies and players to literary be able to air their own propaganda and self importance for the ever attention seeking media that is SKY TV.

The point about "it has nothing to do with money" is has crazy as saying "Sunshine as nothing to do with a summer holiday"!! it has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT!

To say that is to miss the whole point about my rant.

The money and the obscene amounts being earned by the players is at the very fabric of their lack of desire and hunger. Again not for a second do I say the players are to blame, if you are offered these amounts, of course you would accept them. BUT then that money brings all the trappings of a celebrity hollywood life style, it leads to short cuts in your life, believe me when I say IT DOES AND CAN CHANGE YOUR OUT LOOK ON LIFE COMPLETELY.

These players have never got anywhere near the 1966 heroes, those players would have been justified in having a celebrity super star retirement! This batch of players have been found wanting in every department internationally, yet is it going to hurt them? They don't want for anything. Of course they will all be very disappointed, and make the correct PC comments for the waiting media, but after a couple weeks, they will all be believing their own hype again.

That's not just the reason we lost today, of course not, there were tactical errors, positional errors and individual errors, and we were beaten by a better organized and fearless team.

But again I stress the point that our so called best players have for many years now, been very cleverly seduced by the media, their agents and all the sycophants wanting a share of the so called celebrity footballer, who unfortunately believing all that hype, has had that desire, hunger and enthusiasm for representing your country, (that was once at the start of their career's, proudly burning so brightly) slowly but surely squeezed out of them, to the point where they are today, which is now no more than a burnt out ember, AND MONEY, Particularly TO MUCH, is right at the HEART OF IT!

Mass

[cornishteddyboy]

Time for Wales, Scotland, Ireland and England to unite.

Team GB

Might find 11 decent players then!

Best manager England could have? A Scotsman, like David Moyse. He would put passion into the players!

Use only players from non "Glamour Clubs". Foreign players in teams like Man United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc make the English players look good. Take them away and you see what you get. Draw against USA and Algeria, a 1-0 win against small Slovenia and the worst hammering of an England team at the world cup finals.

Must be enough "hungry" players from these teams (Everton, Aston Villa, etc) to start again and make a passionate team. Players who care about the shirt.

Rooney - Ha ha. Bundled off the ball, crosses too strong, couldn't lay the ball off. A white elephant!

[Martin Eddy]

at 52 years of age i have NEVER been as dissappionted as i am tonight.i can take being beaten by a better side but man for man they were far weaker than us.you COULD blame the assistant for the 2nd?????? goal we scored but in truth we were 2nd in every part of the field.not one of our so called big players did anything.it says something when our best player let in 4 goals.cole was okay and lampard was unlucky but the rest shite!!!!!!!!!could not pass keep the ball or hold a position.how many times did we all scream that our defence was out of position,and two centre halfs on the touch line for the second goal would be an insult to a school boy to say it was an error.i have been a supporter of capello but when a team are losing 4-1 and you need a goal "HESKEY" i ask you whats capello's contract 6 million i would do it for 6 quid and get that one right.still only two years before we are made to suffer again."COME ON ENGLAND" :c:

[Richard Chown]

I never thought I would say this, but the only person I thought looked like he wanted to win the World Cup was Ashley Cole!

[Guest]

Good thread. Unfortunately unless the FA suits are held to account then this will run and run and little will happen. It as all about individual skills and techniques. We just don't have it, but we have been saying that for years. There are so many simple tasks a youngster up to professional should be using every day to improve their play. I remember being at Leicester Tigers who were due to play I cant think who, but Rob Andrew stayed out for well over an hour after training aiming for a single post from the corner flag. It does not matter who you are, there is always room for improvement. Footballers should be no different.

So an English manager, proper coaching from bottom to top. Or a foreigner who cant speak the language and has very, very odd player selections and an aloof school teacher attitude. Unfortunately the FA has dug a massive hole for itself in the ground. They were the idiots who a month before the world cup started decided to take out the clause that said either side could terminate the contract. Now its going to cost the FA at least 12m because the one thing we now now is that he is not an honorable man. If he was then he would have stood down. Surprising how a few bob can focus the mind. Oh and of course his translater wont want to lose his shed load of cash.

[Goldeneye]

So an English manager, proper coaching from bottom to top.

As I've said earlier on this forum the quality of coaching availabe to our youngsters is often very poor. A lot of youth football teams are run by parents who have no coaching qualifications at all. We simply do not have enough quality coaches working with the very young.

Today on Radio 5 they gave the number of coaches in various countries who hold Uefa’s B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. The figures were; Germany 34,970, Italy 29,420, Spain 23,995, France 17,588 and, wait for it, England 2,769. Says it all really!!

[Lee_]

I never thought I would say this, but the only person I thought looked like he wanted to win the World Cup was Ashley Cole!

I concur, easily our most consistent player at the tournament IMO.

[rougvie]

I never thought I would say this, but the only person I thought looked like he wanted to win the World Cup was Ashley Cole!

I never thought I'd say this, but you're right. The problem is that the FA have no power to counter the Premier League free market circus, which is based on making the short-term buck. The myth and hype around the top Premier League clubs (they're not 'English' clubs, in any way, they're multinational franchises) has infected the few English players from that league that are able to constitute a lightweight England squad. They're good footballers, obviously. They genuinely think they're special, but they're not. That's why egocentric twats like John Terry (and I'm a lifetime Chelsea supporter)are able to undermine any manager that takes on the England job.

[rougvie]

So an English manager, proper coaching from bottom to top.

As I've said earlier on this forum the quality of coaching availabe to our youngsters is often very poor. A lot of youth football teams are run by parents who have no coaching qualifications at all. We simply do not have enough quality coaches working with the very young.

Today on Radio 5 they gave the number of coaches in various countries who hold Uefa’s B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. The figures were; Germany 34,970, Italy 29,420, Spain 23,995, France 17,588 and, wait for it, England 2,769. Says it all really!!

Exactly. When I got into the school team, as right back (and only the rubbish ones had to be defenders), the only guidance I had was never to venture over the halfway line. The manager was the centre forward's dad.

[Garf]

So an English manager, proper coaching from bottom to top.

As I've said earlier on this forum the quality of coaching availabe to our youngsters is often very poor. A lot of youth football teams are run by parents who have no coaching qualifications at all. We simply do not have enough quality coaches working with the very young.

Today on Radio 5 they gave the number of coaches in various countries who hold Uefa’s B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. The figures were; Germany 34,970, Italy 29,420, Spain 23,995, France 17,588 and, wait for it, England 2,769. Says it all really!!

Take it that that is the reason Italy and France had an outstanding World Cup then?????????? We can all sit in judgement on who Capello could of taken, but in all seriousness all of us would have taken most of that team. Wouldn't we?

Perhaps it was the formation was the problem? Even then they get asked to play differant formations all the time by their clubs.The players were to blame, no heart, no desire and no idea!

[Goldeneye]

Take it that that is the reason Italy and France had an outstanding World Cup then??????????

Could be why they have been 2 of the last 3 winners though! :D