Cornish Identity

[Graham-Hart]

Okay, some very nice and interesting 'facts' have come out on this thread about the 'nation' of Cornwall but nothing that is actually relevant.

Everything I've said is relevant - Otherwise I would'nt have said it. My information is based on seven years of studying Cornish history and identity, not hearsay

Our tin and fishing industrys are, like those facts, a thing of the past and our economy is based almost entirely on tourism. What kind of future would Cornwall have without the support of England

Are you not aware that South Crofty is due to go into FULL production within the next two years, and who said anything about breaking away from England ? Recognition the same as Wales is all I'm demanding. I'm not asking for an assembly or anything else.

There are many antique and obselete 'laws' technically still in effect across Britain, although nobody pays any attention to them, because they are now outdated and laughable, much like the idea of Cornwall being a independent nation!

There is no such thing as 'Obsolete Law'. It's either 'Good Law' or non existent. Law reflecting the Duchy is absolutely rock solid.

These are just my opinions, but what is fact is i am a Cornishman and a Englishman,

You can't be both.

...not because my teachers said so, or because the government says so,

but because I say so,

Delude yourself by all means.

and im sure im backed up by contempary law, even if not by medievel.

I'm afraid your not. You are backed up by over a 100 years of lies. Otherwise known as Cultural Genocide.

What i find hard to take, is not that ive been lied to by teachers and England my whole life .

To be accurate, you are not lied to by the teachers but by the systematic process of cultural genocide that has, taken place all of your life.

...but rather that people i dont even know, or care to know for that matter, are telling me who i am and how i should feel about my home and way of life

Again, Delude yourself by all means. After all it is your life and not mine. I just think it's better to base our lives on truth.

I think what really pisses you off is that you've been decieved all your life and I don't blame you.

I felt EXACTLY the same when I first found out....

Shocking is'nt it ?

Still the best post you've ever seen here Coopsie ?

[Coopsie]

Okay, some very nice and interesting 'facts' have come out on this thread about the 'nation' of Cornwall but nothing that is actually relevant.

Everything I've said is relevant - Otherwise I would'nt have said it. My information is based on seven years of studying Cornish history and identity, not hearsay

Our tin and fishing industrys are, like those facts, a thing of the past and our economy is based almost entirely on tourism. What kind of future would Cornwall have without the support of England

Are you not aware that South Crofty is due to go into FULL production within the next two years, and who said anything about breaking away from England ? Recognition the same as Wales is all I'm demanding. I'm not asking for an assembly or anything else.

There are many antique and obselete 'laws' technically still in effect across Britain, although nobody pays any attention to them, because they are now outdated and laughable, much like the idea of Cornwall being a independent nation!

There is no such thing as 'Obsolete Law'. It's either 'Good Law' or non existent. Law reflecting the Duchy is absolutely rock solid.

These are just my opinions, but what is fact is i am a Cornishman and a Englishman,

You can't be both.

...not because my teachers said so, or because the government says so,

but because I say so,

Delude yourself by all means.

and im sure im backed up by contempary law, even if not by medievel.

I'm afraid your not. You are backed up by over a 100 years of lies. Otherwise known as Cultural Genocide.

What i find hard to take, is not that ive been lied to by teachers and England my whole life .

To be accurate, you are not lied to by the teachers but by the systematic process of cultural genocide that has, taken place all of your life.

...but rather that people i dont even know, or care to know for that matter, are telling me who i am and how i should feel about my home and way of life

Again, Delude yourself by all means. After all it is your life and not mine. I just think it's better to base our lives on truth.

I think what really pisses you off is that you've been decieved all your life and I don't blame you.

I felt EXACTLY the same when I first found out....

Shocking is'nt it ?

Still the best post you've ever seen here Coopsie ?

YES.. He's clearly a realist. 1 capable of seeing things for what they are, rather than how they were. You said yourself that your opinions are based upon studying "7 years of Cornish History".. History is for the past, and for those that wish to cling to it, rather than move on and accept things change..

I truly admire your passion for the County in which you were raised. Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is the people with your "We've got history and everyone should know it" attitude, that are responsible for the county being decades behind the rest of the country it's located in. Because it is you know, located in England ;)

[truros mr mourinho]

Okay, some very nice and interesting 'facts' have come out on this thread about the 'nation' of Cornwall but nothing that is actually relevant.

Everything I've said is relevant - Otherwise I would'nt have said it. My information is based on seven years of studying Cornish history and identity, not hearsay

Our tin and fishing industrys are, like those facts, a thing of the past and our economy is based almost entirely on tourism. What kind of future would Cornwall have without the support of England

Are you not aware that South Crofty is due to go into FULL production within the next two years, and who said anything about breaking away from England ? Recognition the same as Wales is all I'm demanding. I'm not asking for an assembly or anything else.

There are many antique and obselete 'laws' technically still in effect across Britain, although nobody pays any attention to them, because they are now outdated and laughable, much like the idea of Cornwall being a independent nation!

There is no such thing as 'Obsolete Law'. It's either 'Good Law' or non existent. Law reflecting the Duchy is absolutely rock solid.

These are just my opinions, but what is fact is i am a Cornishman and a Englishman,

You can't be both.

...not because my teachers said so, or because the government says so,

but because I say so,

Delude yourself by all means.

and im sure im backed up by contempary law, even if not by medievel.

I'm afraid your not. You are backed up by over a 100 years of lies. Otherwise known as Cultural Genocide.

What i find hard to take, is not that ive been lied to by teachers and England my whole life .

To be accurate, you are not lied to by the teachers but by the systematic process of cultural genocide that has, taken place all of your life.

...but rather that people i dont even know, or care to know for that matter, are telling me who i am and how i should feel about my home and way of life

Again, Delude yourself by all means. After all it is your life and not mine. I just think it's better to base our lives on truth.

I think what really pisses you off is that you've been decieved all your life and I don't blame you.

I felt EXACTLY the same when I first found out....

Shocking is'nt it ?

Still the best post you've ever seen here Coopsie ?

YES.. He's clearly a realist. 1 capable of seeing things for what they are, rather than how they were. You said yourself that your opinions are based upon studying "7 years of Cornish History".. History is for the past, and for those that wish to cling to it, rather than move on and accept things change..

I truly admire your passion for the County in which you were raised. Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is the people with your "We've got history and everyone should know it" attitude, that are responsible for the county being decades behind the rest of the country it's located in. Because it is you know, located in England

i was there when trev headed in the winner,it will never leave me,i know its history but i still cling on to it :yahoo:

[Guest man on! the sideline]

I'm English by birth, Cornish by the grace of god.

[Coopsie]

Here, this MAY help with this discussion??

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_lizard_point_...lace_in_england

http://www.cornwall-calling.co.uk/gazetter...wall/lizard.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land's_End

I particularly like this one... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornwall

http://www.cornwall-calling.co.uk/

[Graham-Hart]

You said yourself that your opinions are based upon studying "7 years of Cornish History".

..which gives you a logical view of your Identity.....you mised out idenity for the convenience of your POV.

History is for the past, and for those that wish to cling to it, rather than move on and accept things change..

No. It is there to tell you who you are. As for accepting change......well, that a bit much coming from someone who does'nt want change.........or the truth.

I truly admire your passion for the County in which you were raised.

We are not a County but a Duchy and should be referred to as such, as I've already pointed out in post 26 - number 12.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is the people with your "We've got history and everyone should know it" attitude....

or to loosely put it another way: " I don't want to know about anything and prefer to stay a dumbass". Without doubt, the daftest thing you've said to date Coopsie.

that are responsible for the county being decades behind the rest of the country it's located in.

Could you explain how you reached that conclusion please. I'm facinated to know.

Because it is you know, located in England

As much as you would like it to be it is not, as enshrined in the Duchy Charters ( 1337-1338) and the 1508 Charter of Pardon.

With refence to your links, everyone knows how inaccutate wikki is, though strangely, your favourite post does contain some truth in favour of my stance. The others are as ignorant of the facts as you, or deliberate propoganda. - By ignorant, I mean unknowledgable of the subject matter and in no other way.

man on! the sideline wrote; I'm English by birth, Cornish by the grace of god

I said the same thing for 50 years. Then I wised up.

[Coopsie]

You said yourself that your opinions are based upon studying "7 years of Cornish History".

..which gives you a logical view of your Identity.....you mised out idenity for the convenience of your POV.

History is for the past, and for those that wish to cling to it, rather than move on and accept things change..

No. It is there to tell you who you are. As for accepting change......well, that a bit much coming from someone who does'nt want change.........or the truth.

I truly admire your passion for the County in which you were raised.

We are not a County but a Duchy and should be referred to as such, as I've already pointed out in post 26 - number 12.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is the people with your "We've got history and everyone should know it" attitude....

or to loosely put it another way: " I don't want to know about anything and prefer to stay a dumbass". Without doubt, the daftest thing you've said to date Coopsie.

that are responsible for the county being decades behind the rest of the country it's located in.

Could you explain how you reached that conclusion please. I'm facinated to know.

Because it is you know, located in England

As much as you would like it to be it is not, as enshrined in the Duchy Charters ( 1337-1338) and the 1508 Charter of Pardon.

With refence to your links, everyone knows how inaccutate wikki is, though strangely, your favourite post does contain some truth in favour of my stance. The others are as ignorant of the facts as you, or deliberate propoganda. - By ignorant, I mean unknowledgable of the subject matter and in no other way.

man on! the sideline wrote; I'm English by birth, Cornish by the grace of god

I said the same thing for 50 years. Then I wised up.

Seriously, do you actually read anything before responding?. You already admitted previously that you didn't bother reading/recognising that I wasn't born in this COUNTY. You then go on to say that I don't want change, even though I've CLEARLY stated that it's the COUNTY that doesn't want change and refuses to go forward.

You then said "As much as you would like it to be it is not, as enshrined in the Duchy Charters ( 1337-1338) and the 1508 Charter of Pardon.", after I told you that Cornwall IS in England.. Just remind me again as to what the year is TODAY?.

I suppose next you'll be advising me not to turn up at the House Of Lords with a suit of armour on?.

Now I have to explain to you how I come to the conclusion that attitudes like yours are the reason why this county is decades behind the rest of the country.. Well let me make it simplistic for you.. You're clinging to a past and a part of the country (it is you know) that died long ago, whilst the rest of the country rebuilds, updates and moves forward.

As I said eons ago in this debate of great tedium, I work all over this country, and also Scotland and Wales too (they ARE their own country), so I'm perfectly able to give an opinion of the country as a whole and get to see first hand, week in week out, the chasm of difference between this county and oh so many others.

1 last thing. If you need history to tell you who you are, how the heck do you plan for your future?. Are you not able to decide for yourself who you are, who you want to be etc?.

Oh, and to label someone who couldn't give a flying fart about the history of a minor County within the country we live, "a dumbass", well that's just ignorant I'm afraid. Which is kind of ironic after all the preaching you've been doing about many of us being ignorant. Don't you think?.

OH, and why is it that EVERYBODY who has said that CORNWALL IS A COUNTY is wrong, but you're right because a few old books told you so?. You even say that ALL the links were wrong/contain deliberate propaganda etc etc..

I guess you must be right?. The whole country is on a personal vendetta aginst you and your county.. :rolleyes:

[Coopsie]

Hey, check out the last entry in the link to your weekly guide to the most beautiful villages in England..

http://travel.newarchaeology.com/beautiful...ges_england.php

Honestly, who writes this nonsense?. Are they not leaving themselves somewhat open to the possibility of being sued for false advertising?.

OR there's your more picturesque villages in England

http://www.picturesofengland.com/England/t...resque_Villages

There are also some lovely places in the South West of England you may be interested in?.

http://www.visitsouthwest.co.uk/

AND there truly are some stunning pictures in this contribution from PICTURES OF ENGLAND.COM.. Some lovely villages and land marks, you may have heard of some of them?. Seriously, go through the pages, they're lovely places. We really are lucky to live in such a picturesque part of England..

http://www.picturesofengland.com/England/C...hips_Lighthouse

[Graham-Hart]

A few old books ! ! ! All terriffic stuff Coopsie.

I use Law, you use anything but. You have completely ignored everything I have said in favour of your opinions.

The thread is tedious to you because you utterly refuse to take on board ANYTHING I 'VE SAID, which is based on law. Understand ? LAW.

Therefore instead of bleating, go find me ANY LEGAL DATA that say's Cornwall is a part of England.

Happy searching. :)

[Coopsie]

I take on board EVERYTHING you said. However, because I took it in, does that mean it's true and that I have to agree with it?.

I have a feeling this article may well be of interest to you?. http://unwrittenwords83.blogspot.com/2009/...-scoundrel.html

Therefore instead of bleating, go find me ANY LEGAL DATA that say's Cornwall is a part of England.

Happy searching.

Straight down to the introduction, third line, in brackets

http://www.scottishindependence.com/cornwall.htm

[Anita]

My name is Noel Thompson and I am at Kingston University and currently conducting a study into Cornish identity. The study is trying to discover the strength and depth of Cornish national identity, through an online questionnaire. It is in three parts and takes about 8 minutes altogether. It requires no personal information. I need as wide a range of people from Cornwall as possible (including footy fans!), so please log on if you have the time. The 3 parts can be done separately, if you use the same computer.

If you have any questions on the study, feel free to contact me at noel-thompson@hotmail.co.uk or if you have any concerns about the study, please contact Dr Annie Hughes at the Kingston University geography department.

The questionnaire can be found at cornishidentitysurvey.blogspot.com.

Thank you,

Noel Thompson

Just wondering if anyones done the questionnaire :blink:

[Coopsie]

Then there's this one. You can skip the jabber and go straight down to "Government"..

http://www.celticcountries.com/cornwall/

Those that govern are part of the "legal" system aren't they?

[baldy]

I did.

[Coopsie]

Just wondering if anyones done the questionnaire

There's a questionnaire? .. Go on Graham, fill your boots (or Wellies )..

[baldy]

I thought you had read everything, Coopsie? :clapper:

[Coopsie]

I thought you had read everything, Coopsie?

Oh don't worry about that, I read it all. Just so much "brown stuff" being spoken that I'd forgotten the original, and opening entry to the topic

Poor Noel must be gutted!!

[Graham-Hart]

Straight down to the introduction, third line, in bracket

which states: (which is its current legal status) That is it's "de facto status" ( meaning accepted ) and not de jur'e ( meaning it's legality )

Your second link is called " Celtic Countries" and Cornwall is listed as one. What more do you want than Main airports: Newquay (Cornwall), Plymouth (Devon, England).

It does'nt say Newquay, Cornwall, England does it ? as in Plymouth, Devon England.

Thanks for that page btw, I've not seen it before. Good example is'nt it ?

[The Ginger Jedi]

Okay, some very nice and interesting 'facts' have come out on this thread about the 'nation' of Cornwall but nothing that is actually relevant. Our tin and fishing industrys are, like those facts, a thing of the past and our economy is based almost entirely on tourism. What kind of future would Cornwall have without the support of England?

"In the October 2001 Business Age Magazine Kevin Cahill, an author and investigative journalist for the Sunday Times, wrote about the economy of Cornwall. In the Killing of Cornwall, he notes that the London Treasury extracts £1.95 billion in taxes out of Cornwall's GDP of £3.6 billion. The Treasury returns less than £1.65 billion, so there is a net loss to Cornwall of 300 million pounds, where the total earnings figure is 24% below the national average."

This would suggest that we (The Cornish) give the Exchequer £300 000 000 more than we receive back from the Westminster Government. This economic fact is rarely reported in Cornwall let alone England and backs up Grahams comments on we are what we are told.

[Guest noel]

Was just going to post the pre-written paragraph below, but this forum has thrown up more discussion than any of the supposed Cornish 'Nationalist' or 'Anglophile' sites put together. Great stuff, but from my point of view; put it all in the survey! Very hot topic obviously, but strange as this sounds, I need Cornish people who aren't interested in the subject as well. Please don't forget to do all 3 parts though. Cheers again.

Thank you to all those who have taken the survey, a very mixed bunch of opinions!

However, the more people that take it, the truer picture of Cornwall and its people I'll get, so if you could find the time and haven't taken it, it would be very helpful. I am also lacking replies from the over 65's and from all females. If you have any friends or relatives who have ten minutes to spare, please let them know the website, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you again.

Noel Thompson

[Coopsie]

Thank you to all those who have taken the survey, a very mixed bunch of opinions!

However, the more people that take it, the truer picture of Cornwall and its people I'll get,

Go to your Google search bar and type in "Deluded dweller of/clinger to the past"... It'll give you as truer picture as you could hope to get of certain members of the Cornish society ...

[Graham-Hart]

Thank you to all those who have taken the survey, a very mixed bunch of opinions!

However, the more people that take it, the truer picture of Cornwall and its people I'll get,

Go to your Google search bar and type in "Deluded dweller of/clinger to the past"... It'll give you as truer picture as you could hope to get of certain members of the Cornish society ...

I just googled " refuse to accept the facts ". It came back ***hole.

Not that I expected any other description. :D

[Coopsie]

Thank you to all those who have taken the survey, a very mixed bunch of opinions!

However, the more people that take it, the truer picture of Cornwall and its people I'll get,

Go to your Google search bar and type in "Deluded dweller of/clinger to the past"... It'll give you as truer picture as you could hope to get of certain members of the Cornish society ...

I just googled " refuse to accept the facts ". It came back ***hole.

Not that I expected any other description.

Guessing you missed the animated emoticons at the end of my last statement Graham?. Tongue was FIRMLY in cheek, though I shouldn't be too surprised you failed to see that.

Look at things another way, why don't you ask the people who have commented on this topic to tell you how many of them are Cornish?. Then take the answer and see how many of them have agreed with you.

It APPEARS to me that people openly acknowledge that Cornwall was indeed it's own little nation, once upon a time. However, it also APPEARS that not so many agree that it is now..

That's NOTHING to do with society being "brainwashed", as you describe it. Or propaganda from the government, or bad educational practice etc etc.. It's simply their opinion.

You have yours, they have theirs, I have mine.. People will NEVER agree on everything, however, no matter how much you try to say it isn't, or how much you want to cover the facts with historic literature. The reality of the discussion is that Cornwall IS in England. The government recognises it, the tax man recognises it, the court of law recognises it, it seems that 99.999999% of the population recognises it. A select few die hard oldies refuse to recognise it, which is their prerogative..

Move on Mr Hart, all good things come to an end. Just like Cornwall as a nation did many years ago...

By the way, thanks for the asshole comment. That's probably one of the nicest thing anybody has said to me in quite a while

Dynnargh dhe Gernow yn Pow Sows :c:

[Smithy]

What a load of old TOSH!!!!!!!!!

take it you never seen a map of England you wally's!!!!

cornish is just a version of slang!!!!

ridiculous for those that think cornwall isnt part of England!!!

[Coopsie]

What a load of old TOSH!!!!!!!!!

take it you never seen a map of England you wally's!!!!

cornish is just a version of slang!!!!

ridiculous for those that think cornwall isnt part of England!!!

Well that's a much more "to the point" way of saying what I've been tryint to say Smithy

BUT mate, are you Cornish?. If not, your opinion will be discarded as brainwashed nonsense :rolleyes:

[Smithy]

What a load of old TOSH!!!!!!!!!

take it you never seen a map of England you wally's!!!!

cornish is just a version of slang!!!!

ridiculous for those that think cornwall isnt part of England!!!

Well that's a much more "to the point" way of saying what I've been tryint to say Smithy

BUT mate, are you Cornish?. If not, your opinion will be discarded as brainwashed nonsense

i am far from bein cornish coopsie matey!! lol

just thought id wind up the cornish die hards that think that cornwall is a country!!!

hahahahahaha---behave peeps!!!!!

[Graham-Hart]

Guessing you missed the animated emoticons at the end of my last statement Graham?. Tongue was FIRMLY in cheek, though I shouldn't be too surprised you failed to see that.

If' that's firmly in cheek Coopsie, I would'nt hazard to think what it's like when it's floppy

Look at things another way, why don't you ask the people who have commented on this topic to tell you how many of them are Cornish?. Then take the answer and see how many of them have agreed with you.

Don't know if that's possible but I'd welcome a poll by ALL Forum members.

It APPEARS to me that people openly acknowledge that Cornwall was indeed it's own little nation, once upon a time. However, it also APPEARS that not so many agree that it is now..

Ahh , a little movement. It seems the prune juice is beginning to work. I remind you again me 'ole mate, you have totally ignored every legal example I have put before you.

That's NOTHING to do with society being "brainwashed", as you describe it. Or propaganda from the government, or bad educational practice etc etc.. It's simply their opinion.

An opinion ? Based on what ? A crossword puzzle ? It has to be based on something.

You have yours, they have theirs, I have mine.. People will NEVER agree on everything, however, no matter how much you try to say it isn't, or how much you want to cover the facts with historic literature. The reality of the discussion is that Cornwall IS in England. The government recognises it, the tax man recognises it, the court of law recognises it, it seems that 99.999999% of the population recognises it. A select few die hard oldies refuse to recognise it, which is their prerogative..

Move on Mr Hart, all good things come to an end. Just like Cornwall as a nation did many years ago...

It's not a question of agreement Coopsie, its a question of legality and equality before the law. Yes of course the government recognises it, the tax man recognises it, the court of law recognises it, because they are the very people who are going against their own statute to protect the Duke of Cornwall's income and to save him in his duty as our Monarch. £16 million per year earned from his so-called well run private estate, tax free and immune from the Freedom of Information act ! Some bleddy well run private estate eh ? I'm afraid it's you and others of your ilk that are going to have to move on my friend.

Back to the poll though, in a way, we've sort of already had one. To date, this thread has had 74 posts but more importantly has been viewed by 1,182 to date in just under three weeks. The only one remotely close to that is the £20 Million flop,or £30.? thread ( a snip ) over the last four pages that I checked with 42 posts and 1,020 views and that's been running for over two months. Why is that I wonder ? Because of a few old diehards ?

I think not.

[chairman]

:smiley20: Dare an import of some 38 years venture to say this is a futile discussion that belongs elsewhere other than on a soccer forum. :c:

[Coopsie]

Dare an import of some 38 years venture to say this is a futile discussion that belongs elsewhere other than on a soccer forum.

Yet ANOTHER opinion I agree with ... Seem's there's only 1 that I don't

If' that's firmly in cheek Coopsie, I would'nt hazard to think what it's like when it's floppy

You been talking to my wife

An opinion ? Based on what ? A crossword puzzle ? It has to be based on something.

Erm, based on loking at a map of England and seeing the county of Cornwall on the end of it

Look at things another way, why don't you ask the people who have commented on this topic to tell you how many of them are Cornish?. Then take the answer and see how many of them have agreed with you.

Don't know if that's possible but I'd welcome a poll by ALL Forum members.

Why would it not be possible?. You go on to state that you've gone back and counted 74 responses, trawled through 4 pages of old posts etc to compare interest between this and other topics. So surely you could ask people who've commented on this topic how many of them are Cornish and how many of them believe it's not part of England?.

It's not a question of agreement Coopsie, its a question of legality and equality before the law. Yes of course the government recognises it, the tax man recognises it, the court of law recognises it, because they are the very people who are going against their own statute to protect the Duke of Cornwall's income and to save him in his duty as our Monarch. £16 million per year earned from his so-called well run private estate, tax free and immune from the Freedom of Information act ! Some bleddy well run private estate eh ? I'm afraid it's you and others of your ilk that are going to have to move on my friend.

So you AGREE that the court of law, Government, tax man etc etc recognise the fact that Cornwall IS in England, BUT, the thing that is REALLY peeing you off is the money aspect?.. It's been the base of your argument throughout this whole discussion. Ironically, I actually do agree with you about the money side of things , in principal...

Do you think all those nasty, horrible English people say the same thing about coming down here and paying vastly more for almost everything, than they pay in their own respective county?.

You're happy to take from "the English" but not happy for them to take from you?. Somewhat hypocritical don't you think? :unsure:

[Coopsie]

1 last thing...

To date, this thread has had 74 posts but more importantly has been viewed by 1,182 to date in just under three weeks.

So, a thread has 74 posts, but it's MORE IMPORTANT that it's been viewed 1,182 times .. To me, that simply says that 1182 people have been seeing how the argument/debate is building up, probably more out of curiosity than interest, BUT only 6.2% of people give enough of a crap to comment ..

I rest my case,

Dynnargh dhe Gernow yn Pow Sows

[Graham-Hart]

Dare an import of some 38 years venture to say this is a futile discussion that belongs elsewhere other than on a soccer forum.

Hello Mr Chairman. How are you ? Don't think we've had contact since the St Austell campaign, assuming you are the same. I do hope you are well.

In answer to your question: No, because it is sport/soccer related. As I now you are a man of reasonable intellect I'm sure, I will put this to you:

IMHO, the state of Cornish representative football is at it's lowest ebb ever. The pinnacle is now Cornwall Youth ( where Tommy and his group does a fantastic job. ) and quite frankly, that is a disgrace and we must demand highers goals for the further developement of our players.

Recognition of Cornwall as a nation - which is our birth right - gives us that platform. Yes, an international platform. Now before this thread in inundated with: " we're too small" posting(s), here is a list of small nations in which you will see Countries of small populations who are competing at this level. Not world beaters I grant you, but nonetheless competing. In our case, add a little bit of what Jack Charlton did with Ireland and who knows what we could do.

Whatever, it's got to be better than we have now - which is nothing - and personally, I find the prospect mouthwatering.

Coopsie. Back to map again eh ? they're laughing at you pard, not with you. :c:

[Smithy]

Can someone help me out here please--

whats the starting 11 going to be when the country (not county hahahahaha) cornwall attempt to qualify for the next international tournament????

one answer

there is no such country as cornwall-last time i checked it was a county!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can we just move on and stop talkin aload of old tosh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Coopsie]

Coopsie. Back to map again eh ? they're laughing at you pard, not with you.

Pard??.. Yee har my little Hillbilly English cousin.. Bloody hell, I know you like to drone on about the past, but you're taking it a bit far by still speaking from it

"Note to thine self, thou must protesteth less, and also remember ner to wear thine armoured suit into yon house of commons"

Put it to bed now will you, for Gods sake, and please don't take this offensively. YOU LIVE IN BLOODY ENGLAND

Can someone help me out here please--

whats the starting 11 going to be when the country (not county hahahahaha) cornwall attempt to qualify for the next international tournament????

one answer

there is no such country as cornwall-last time i checked it was a county!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can we just move on and stop talkin aload of old tosh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T HE SENTIMENTS OF OH SO MANY :clapper:

[Graham-Hart]

2.000 views of the the truth I've written Coopsie and coincidently 2,000 views of the hollow head crap you spout .

Here's a joke for ya.

There's a bingo hall in Carbis Bay which, as most will know, is mostly second homes, retirement homes, holiday lets, etc. Just a few locals left.

The bingo hall's business was dropping oiff alarmingly, so Janner decided to do publicity for a new promotion. All non-Cornish winners, they announced, would have their prize money doubled.

On the following week, the place was packed! Which pleased the organisers no end. The first game began.

"Eyes down!" the MC said over the mike. "Here we go."

"Dew ha peswar – peswar war'n ugans . . ."

:D

[Guest KernowGB]

Having read through this thread and decided that it would be impossibly boring to respond to all the negativity that has greeted excellent posts from Dan, Graham, and others, I would like to just focus on what seems to me to epitomise the existence of the Cornish Paradox. Coopsie in his post above #72 summed this up, very precisely , when he stated:

"It APPEARS to me that people openly acknowledge that Cornwall was indeed it's own little nation, once upon a time. However, it also APPEARS that not so many agree that it is now..

That's NOTHING to do with society being "brainwashed", as you describe it. Or propaganda from the government, or bad educational practice etc etc.. It's simply their opinion."

It exposes the two contradictory truths of the paradox; it shows that the negativity (towards a Cornish viewpoint) is based on ‘opinion’ and speculation. Why else, the emphasis? The first part fails to question, why such a change of state has occurred and the second part exposes the denial that would/could/should point to the answer. From where do individuals derive opinions? From propaganda, opinion-creators, media, schools, friends, family, ideology etc. If the foundation is flawed, then so is everyone's perceptions and opinions.

People are perfectly entitled to an opinion, but if they wish to indulge themselves in such an important debate, then perhaps they should be offering something better than opinion. What would have been good, would have been some objective challenge to the specific points made by Graham in his post at #26.

Coopsie, himself relies on various links to web pages, without discussing the specific point that he seeks to make. If it is a page, which relates specifically to Cornwall, then you may be sure that it contains disputed information. So, without a specific reference to comment upon, it would become very tedious – in fact, pointless - to respond to any of them. They only serve to illustrate some of the mechanisms of Cornish genocide. Indeed, another factor to be noted with regard to the first part of the above quote. A nation cannot just disappear - it can only be destroyed!

To use one of Coopsie’s recommended links, namely post #62 and go direct to History we find:“English rule: English king Athelstan conquers Cornwall in 936 AD.” This is pure unsubstantiated rubbish. However, to argue that point here would be pointless, when there are excellent websites - noticeably absent from Coopsie’s recommended links - that cover the issues in some detail. Perhaps it might be sufficient to say that in 1351 the first Duke of Cornwall - who should know something about his Duchy! – differentiates between his estates held within Cornwall and those held within England. Nothing has changed that distinction. Neither can it be changed!

Perhaps it should also be pointed out that the civil administration (now called ‘county’) of the Duchy exists inalienably as an integral part of the Duchy, so, from where does the Westminster Parliament draw its legitimacy to categorise ‘Cornwall’ as an administrative county “of England”, when the Duchy itself clearly distinguishes between Cornwall and England? Does it matter? YES IT DOES! Or should, if you are truly Cornish!

[B Manning]

Just for interest, I was shown a book a good friend of mine was reading (they are an archeologist) I think the book was titled "The History of Britons" and from the latest DNA profiling it is concluded that the Celtic tribes and I include the Cornish in that, originated from the southwest of France. So in reality the Celtic race is also a immigrant to these Isles.

[Guest KernowGB]

The topic of DNA research has little to do with modern aspects of culture and identity and is an entirely different topic. Nevertheless, I quote a post from the Cornwall24 Forum from another archaeologist, namely:

At the risk of repeating myself: Celtic languages developed from Indo-European along the Atlantic coasts of Europe at the beginning of the Neolithic era (c.4500 BC, or possibly earlier), spreading quickly to the British Isles as a lingua franca of the sea-trading regions (the old Victorian idea of Celtic languages/people originating in Central Europe and coming to Britain at the beginning of the Iron Age [800-500 BC] is defunct and discredited). Chief researchers of this include Professor Sir Barry Cunliffe, Professor Colin Renfrew (archaeologists); John Koch (Aberystwyth), John Waddell (Galway), (linguists). Bit hard to argue with guys of their calibre.

Trade during the Roman occupation was far from "free". It was solely controlled by the Roman administration and restricted trade to cross-channel and North Sea commerce. Once they'd gone, it became free again. It increasingly looks as though Dumnonian entrepreneurs rebooted the Atlantic sea-trading routes and did it quickly. Finds from Tintagel (especially) and many other post-Roman sites such as Glastonbury Tor and South Cadbury Castle, support this. One of the Celtic ships carrying out this trade was found fairly recently off St Peter Port harbour in the Channel Isles, and shows many likenesses to the pre-Roman Celtic ships of the Breton Veneti tribe (and some British ships, too) described by Julius Caesar before his fleet destroyed them.

The sea-trading nations consisted of what is today: Western and Northern Spain, Portugal, the Basque region, the Biscay coast of France, Brittany, southern and western Britain (including Cornwall, Wales, Western Scotland and its islands, plus Ireland). With the probable exception of the Basques, they all spoke Celtic as a first language. Major rivers allowed trade between the Atlantic coasts of Europe and inland regions while the ports towards the southern end of the Spanish coast connected with Mediterranean traders.

Brittany is a nation (as contrasted with a country) in its own right, just as Cornwall is. It has a language, culture and history which is not French. It was an established kingdom, just as Cornwall was. Modern politics do not and cannot alter this fact. Of course the EU designate Brittany as a region; just as it has done for Cornwall (Objective One) – the EU recognises the historical/cultural facts pertaining to each, which is more than London or Paris do.

Even today, Atlantic Europe and Atlantic Britain have more in common with each other than, say, the Cornish have in common with the English, or the Bretons have with the French. And, of course, being on the Atlantic coasts, we are far better placed for global trading than the modern capitals (London, Paris) which continue to insist that everything is done through them.

London and Paris accuse the Cornish and Bretons of 'parochialism', when in fact, it is they who maintain a parochial stance. In the end, we do not need London. London needs us, hence their attitude. Same applies to Brittany and Paris.

If we (Cornwall) could kick free from London, I see the Atlantic Arc, with 6000 years of experience, and its wider opportunities as the way to a better, more prosperous, and freer, future.

[Lee_]

Slightly off topic but KernowGB I like your font ;)

[Coopsie]

It was an established kingdom, just as Cornwall was. Modern politics do not and cannot alter this fact.

:clapper:

[B Manning]

Since when did I state that I was quoting an archeoligist!. I just thought it may be a point of interest but I obviously have trod on a toe. For the record my ancestors are Welsh/Irish, my family name is one of the oldest recorded it`s mentioned in the Doomsday Book and to be perfectly honest I am more than happy to be labeled British.

[Guest KernowGB]

BM, it would seem that you misunderstood the point of my reply, which was to add another 'interesting' pov, with references, on what you had put forward. Not quite sure why you would have included the comment "(they are an archeologist)", if there was no point to it?

Coopsie, it is interesting that you have picked out that item to quote, with emphasis? What is even more bizarre is, that you have failed to see the link and celebrate the obvious fact that 'modern politics' = culpable genocide. :SM_carton:

[Coopsie]

Coopsie, it is interesting that you have picked out that item to quote, with emphasis? What is even more bizarre is, that you have failed to see the link and celebrate the obvious fact that 'modern politics' = culpable genocide.

I never failed to see anything. I chose/choose to see what's actually infront of me. What I see is me and my family living in a beautiful county (absolutely no doubt about that) that just happens to be located in England..

[Guest KernowGB]

A classic example of the process at work.

Santa Zone

comes to mind.

The Denial

[Coopsie]

Bloody hell, this is becoming SOOOOOO tedious ..

Why on earth do you have to argue so much, and be so damn dismissive?.

MY opinion has been overwhelmingly stated in this topic.

MY opinion is that Cornwall is a county within England.

MY opinion is something I believe I'm entitled to?.

MY opinion is different to YOUR opinion, that DOESN'T make it wrong

Now as far as I'm aware, I've called you believers things such as "deluded", "past dwellers" and "afraid to move on", but I don't think I've once told you that YOUR opinion is wrong?.

YOUR opinion has been backed up by a huge contingent of ONE member of this forum . A forum by the way which happens to not only be called Cornish Soccer Forum, but also happens to be based in, and commented on by the people of....... Wait for it........ CORNWALL . Surely the complete total lack of support (interest) you and Graham have had on this topic, suggests that people either do not agree, or simply DON'T CARE? ..

[Graham-Hart]

Then why has it had so many views Coopsie.

Seems to me, people are very interested. Don't want to contribute....but very much want to hear the "set in stone" alternative to your 'opinion'. :c:

[Guest KernowGB]

Coopsie, I have already acknowledged that you have your right to an opinion. What you seem unable to grasp is that you persist in justifying yours and I am simply reciprocating that, within a discussion forum, and attempting to give some sense as to why our opinions differ. The reason for your opinion is precisely the same as your perception that nobody else seems to care. In the nicest possible way, ignorance is bliss plus the fact that the system - however it may be described! - has deliberately kept us ignorant by design. I am only attempting to point out that an existence built upon lies and deception is a flawed one. However genuinely held and a bit like believing in Santa! By justifying yours, you are also implying that mine is wrong. The truth is out there and denial will not make it go away. :c:

[Coopsie]

You still BOTH don't get it.. My opinion is NOT based upon what I was or wasn't taught at school. If it was, I'd still think we're governed by the Romans .

Graham, are you psychic?. I believe you have absolutely NO IDEA as to why there have been so many views of this topic. I could just as easily say that it's had that many views because King Arthur arose from his Tintagel resting place and ordered Merlin to cast a spell upon the users of this facility in order to give you reason to cling to hope of a Cornish nation... See, I don't know if that's true or not. But it could be as true as what you say ..

The truth is indeed out there KernowGB, and you're also right that denial will not make it go away.. The problem is, YOUR truth is different to the truth that the rest of the nation, including the Government etc, knows or believes(right or wrong, that's the way it is).. That is the system you live in NOW. It WAS once the case that the system was a VERY different picture BUT I'm afraid it was centuries ago...

Now rather than continue this silly argument about a tiny little nation on the other side of the Tamar river, how about you tell me how a population of almost 61million people are going to be convinced that Cornwall is indeed it's own nation by a posse of about twelve hardened Cornish folk?.

[Guest KernowGB]

Now rather than continue this silly argument about a tiny little nation on the other side of the Tamar river, how about you tell me how a population of almost 61million people are going to be convinced that Cornwall is indeed it's own nation by a posse of about twelve hardened Cornish folk?

Coopsie, since you have now clearly defined that you are part of the problem - could I ever have doubted it? - I must confess that I still have a greater faith in people than you obviously have. Anyway, it is good that you can sleep at night, living such a lie and supporting genocide! Faith is such a wonderful gift.

Not sure where you have dragged up the number 12 from, but it took less than that to change the face of Ireland. As with other matters, revealed above, I also know that you are wrong in your opinion (which you are entitled to hold), because we are, very slowly, emerging from the self-engandising bigotry and arrogance of the Hegemony. We can ignore those with obviously closed minds, keep stating the truth and demanding that Rights, which seem to be available to all and sundry, are made available to the Cornish people. We have many friends out there, but, as with all things, it is we that must spearhead the action. When real people are acquainted with the truth, then they will have a choice, which is currently denied to them. You must feel really proud of that achievement?

[Smithy]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COUNTY!!!

END OF

[Coopsie]

Not sure where you have dragged up the number 12 from, but it took less than that to change the face of Ireland.

You must feel really proud of that achievement?

, it was a not based upon facts, but upon an unsubstantiated representation of the miniscule amount of campaigners compared to the actual population of the country known as England.. (basically, compared to the nationwide population, the voices of Cornwall will make about as much noise as you get coming from the Emirates Stadium )

Yep, it was all ME... Well I had a bit of help from James ii of England a while back, but as you correctly said. I'm proud :c:

[The Ginger Jedi]

Erm, based on loking at a map of England and seeing the county of Cornwall on the end of it

Ha ha, this is the basis of your acceptance of the status quo?

The Basques, are they Spanish, French or Basques?

The Catalans, are they Spanish, French or Catalans?

The Kurds, are they Turkish, Iraqis or Kurds?

The Chechens, are they Russian or Chechens?

The Bretons, are they French or Bretons?

None of the above are peoples from 'countries' drawn on establishment maps, it doesn't stop them believing they are a distinct nation within a state. Cultural imperialism tells them what they are in the same way Westminster tries to tell the Cornish they are English. Certain people don't question this, fortunately more and more are starting to question this once exposed to the truth. To be fair the British are the masters of cultural imperialism (they built the greatest empire known to man on the back of it) sadly Cornwall is one of the last bastions of such an outdated practise.