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1st team players in the reserves.


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I have heard on the grapevine that Tavistock in the ECPL will be flooding their team with first team players this Saturday against Saltash Utd. With Launcestons "shock" defeat against Wadebridge in the ECPL i thought this maybe a topic worth touching on. Especially as both Launceston and Wadebridge had 1st teamers in.

I am all in favour for 1st and 2nd teams to work together as a club. A player from the 2nds playing well being promoted to the 1sts or an injured 1st teamer gaining match fitness with the 2nds. But is it right to bring in 6 or 7 first teamers as they don't have a fixture that day? How would the regular 2nd team players feel at being left out?

Both Tavistock and Saltash have good young sides and are a credit to the ECPL. I hope sense prevails and a good game is had between both these reserve sides.

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In reply to your post

As assistant manager to the Wadebridge ECPL side I can confirm we did have 2 first team players in our team last night. Not that I have to justify why they played but in the interest of being 'open & honest' the reason they were involved is that we work closely as a club between each squad and both players had only featured at the weekend for the 1st team but were not available this weekend and they were played to gain some much needed match fitness with the seconds. We could have 'flooded' the side with other 1st team players, as they were at the club last night training but its not how we choose to operate as a club. Instead we choose to have a player from our 3rd's (Ali Feasey, his first experience of being involved with an ECPL game) on the bench with a lad from our U16's (Jacob Nichol) along with a couple of other 2nd team squad players, 1 who was coming back from injury. The 2 young lads both came on during the second half for some valuable experience. Make a note of their names as they will feature in the future for WTFC 1st & 2nd teams. (At the weekend we could well have a couple of players from the 2nds in the first team squad.)

We like to think that we are a club who encourage our players to 'aim high'.

Playing for the first team should be their 'goal'.

Not sure what you can do about the 'grapevine story' in your post with reference to Torpoint but I don't think there is a specific law against it? (Correct me if I am wrong.)

Its a fact of life and you just have to get on with it.

You can look at it 2 ways in my book.

1 - see it as an opportunity to play against better players & gain experience or

2 - 'whinge' about it and reacte in a negative way

Either way its only a game of football and as much as I love the game there are far more important things in life to worry about. For instance, when will Forest win again?? Now thats an altogether different topic!!!

Cheers

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I dont know what grapevine you have been listening to but as Manager of Tavistock i know the side that i will be putting out and it will be picked from the sqaud we have available at the time :clapper:

IF southy reqiures me to give a first team player a run out for some match fitness then as a reserve team manager then i am obliged to do this (after all my job is to get the young boys through the ranks)!!

I am sure you will be surprised :D I am also sure that Saltash will be feilding the strongest side available to them !!

WE DO PLAY FAIR :smiley20:

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Guest Peppermint

When Wadebridge Town played Tavistock Josh Insley was a second half substitute and Lee Cameron did not play so it is logical that they both should have a full game in the Reserves in midweek.Gats makes a very good point that if a First Team Manager like Stuart Dudley or Ian Southcott asks for one of his squad to have a run out in a Reserve game then that is why clubs run second teams.

Players returning from suspension, holidays or injury need some football and that is where your reserve teams come in.

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A little insight from the west of the county, where this issue has been burning brightly for years. Most ex-SWL/SWPL clubs, most of the time, do not "pack" their reserves just because they legally can. It's also true that first team calls on ECPL or JCCL players can weaken a reserve side just as returning/free/fitness-seeking first-teamers can strengthen it. I appreciate the argument that, over a season or several seasons, this may average out.

If all fixtures in the JCCL (I don't know enough about the ECPL to comment) were seen to be fairly and consistently drawn up, this "issue" might be less problematic. Unfortunately there is substantial evidence that some clubs are consistently favoured and others disadvantaged in the timing and particularly in the re-scheduling of fixtures.

I will not bore those who are familiar with the examples I have trotted out in the past by doing it again. I realise that it is not the fault of clubs, SWPL or JCCL, that the Fixture Secretary of the JCCL deliberately manipulates this year after year...and that the show-of-hands voting system persistently intimidates those who privately recognise his corruption from doing anything about it. Had the club where I used to be Secretary been any nearer to the JCCL-ECPL border, I would have favoured moving leagues to get away from him .

It's a fix. We all know it's a fix. But like the neighbours of early Holocaust victims, most clubs turn a blind eye while others are still suffering more acutely than they are.

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:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

When Wadebridge Town played Tavistock Josh Insley was a second half substitute and Lee Cameron did not play so it is logical that they both should have a full game in the Reserves in midweek.Gats makes a very good point that if a First Team Manager like Stuart Dudley or Ian Southcott asks for one of his squad to have a run out in a Reserve game then that is why clubs run second teams.

Players returning from suspension, holidays or injury need some football and that is where your reserve teams come in.

Well said Peppermint :thumbsup:

As i have said i will be picking from players i have available, i have the luxary of a very large 2ND team sqaud that are more than capable of looking after themselfs in ECPL, you will have to wait & see the team that is put out on saturday.

Saltash are a very strong side so it will be a very hard game no matter what team i put out!!!

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Man On The Post. Many would look at your quote and ask "just because they can, does it make it right?"

For example, a team may struggle all season and relegation may rest on their last game of the season. I have seen many a time that team being given the whole of the first team squad to pick from to retain their place in that league, subsequently relegating another team.

Last season Torpoint were in the ECPL cup final. They lost to Tamarside 1-0. A Tamarside player was outstanding that day and was head and shoulders above everyone else on that park. He had played a handful of games that year to qualify to play in the cup for them. Is this morally right? I wouldnt have envyed the managers job on cup final day telling a season regular you are dropped for a so called ringer.

I am all for clubs working closely together. Players will always move between 1st and 2nd teams. Match fitness, players coming back from injury and 2nd teamers being promoted. What i don't like to see is 7 or 8 first teamers playing for their reserves just because they dont have a fixture that day. I wouldn't be impressed if i were a regular 2nd team player being told i was dropped!!!!!!!

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Man On The Post. Many would look at your quote and ask "just because they can, does it make it right?"

For example, a team may struggle all season and relegation may rest on their last game of the season. I have seen many a time that team being given the whole of the first team squad to pick from to retain their place in that league, subsequently relegating another team.

Last season Torpoint were in the ECPL cup final. They lost to Tamarside 1-0. A Tamarside player was outstanding that day and was head and shoulders above everyone else on that park. He had played a handful of games that year to qualify to play in the cup for them. Is this morally right? I wouldnt have envyed the managers job on cup final day telling a season regular you are dropped for a so called ringer.

I am all for clubs working closely together. Players will always move between 1st and 2nd teams. Match fitness, players coming back from injury and 2nd teamers being promoted. What i don't like to see is 7 or 8 first teamers playing for their reserves just because they dont have a fixture that day. I wouldn't be impressed if i were a regular 2nd team player being told i was dropped!!!!!!!

Well you dont need to worry cos you aint in my sqaud :yahoo:

You obviousley Dont know me, so know nothing about my standards and our clubs standards,We have a sqaud at Tavistock out of that sqaud, players are picked for the 1st team & 2nd team those teams can change week to week depending on suspensions or injury,so no matter what team i feild on saturday, you will probably say that some are 1st team players, i will leave it there now & post my sqaud, if you so wish on this forum on Monday :P

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Guest Man on the Post

Jannerlad could you let us have your definition of a first team player. You mention that you don't like seeing 7 or 8 first teamers in the reserves, so I presume that you think 5 or 6 is ok? I once heard somebody complaining that the opposition had included 4 first teamers and this was in the first match of the season!

Richard Chown and gats are right this is senior football and teams should be picked from a first / second team squad. Players in the second team should be striving to play for the first team and when dropped first team players should should be striving to get back into it. :thumbsup:

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Definition of a first team player = someone who would prodominently play for the first team!!!!!!!!

Gats this isn't aimed as a dig at Tavistock. Was told earlier on in the week from a Tavistock player that they were playing for the 2nds this weekend along with 4 or 5 others. I'm gauging peoples thoughts regardless of whether its Tavi, Wadebridge, Saltash, Torpoint etc etc on whether just because the peninsula side dont have a game it's right to put them into the reserve side? The player i spoke to plays week in week out for the first team so there is no argument of being unfit or needing match practise for him.

I'll reiterate again that i feel first teams and reserves should work together for the better of the club but every team will have a core of players with them week in week out. Is it correct to drop one of these core players for someone who will only possibly be available that one game?

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Guest Peppermint

With repect to Jannerlad and the ECPL Final last season - I am quite sure if I remember correctly this was not a regular member of their side but someone who had played Peninsula League football for another club and then a few games for Tamarside.

This is a totally different scenario to the playing of players within the same club teams and giving players a run out if needed. This certainly is not the case in most clubs that the whole of the first team are drafted in for some fixtures because then the regular second team players would have reasons to complain.

In most clubs cases it is to give someone who has missed games for a variety of reasons a method of getting match fit. Plus the other reason mentioned on postings - to give second team players a way of getting used to first team football and integrating them into a better standard and playing with better players.

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Hey Gats, nice to know that people on here know who is picked for what team before we do.!

As for Jannerlads comment's if I have lads that have been out for several weeks and short of match practise it is makes perfect sense for me to ask Gat's to give them a runnout whether we have a game or not. Likewsie, if I have a player or players who have been on the bench and not getting much of a game I would also ask for them to have a runnout.

However, all of this is down to communication between the managers and the first question should be what are you like for players and it is also importnat that those who play 'week in - week out' do not have their noses put out of joint.

We are not a first or second team, we are a club and try to work as a club.

I'v told Meedo, Arsky, Bev's, Matty, Menner's, Kracky, Hunzo, Hobbo, Southy, Cocko, Jimmy, Strings, Nigel and Cond's to be there for 1.15 Gats, is that ok? ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Are we getting away from the definition of a "club"?

Lets face it, a team is more than 11 on the field, the 11 chomping at the bit to replace them, the barman(if you have one, VERY important!, the cook, the mug who watches every week!!!

A club is the dreams of many, if you have a seconds or thirds and they help the firsts, and they inturn help the others.... then the club win... is this old fashioned? :huh: :huh:

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No m8, that is totally correct. I can understand the frustration when it happens to your club, however, a club is a club, wether you have 1,2 or 3 teams. When our 1st didnt have a game last week, i had all the 1st team players offering to play for the reserves, as they should do because they didnt sign for Porthleven 1st team, they signed for Porthleven FC. The one thing to remember here lads is, its only 11 v 11, if you want it enough, you will get it. My answer to you is, go out there & show them you are every bit as good as them no matter what league they normally play in !

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