cornishteddyboy Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 This is an advert for the West Britain so I can't get moaned at for posting bad press and then threatened with a court case. From the This is Cornwall Website © LIQUIDATION: Truro tycoon face to face with Cornish Homes creditors Friday, October 10, 2008, 18:37 Angry local businessmen confronted football tycoon Kevin Heaney as he was forced to come face to face with his creditors over his failed house-building firm. The heated exchanges came at the liquidation meeting regarding the Truro City Football Club owner’s company Cornish Homes (UK) Ltd in Exeter today. The official report by liquidators The Kelmanson Partnership identified 162 businesses and individuals owed money by the company when it folded. A further four were listed as creditors but owed ‘nil’. Mr Heaney, reported to be worth £145 million in the Sunday Times Rich List, told the meeting he had done nothing illegal and was hurt by the firm’s failure, which he blamed on the credit crunch. One of the few creditors who attended, Derek Giles, whose Helston-based construction company DA Giles was owed £38,222 for work at Truro City’s grounds, said: "I’m pretty fed up really. "Our debt was not with Cornish Homes but Truro City Football Club. "We were told to invoice Cornish Homes and subsequently it’s not being paid." Mr Giles also said he feared he would have to let staff go due to the debt. John Kelmanson, who is handling the liquidation investigation, said after the hearing: "It was a long and heated meeting where concerns were expressed by creditors represented which will be forming part of my investigation into the affairs of the company as the duly appointed liquidator. "The company has gone into voluntary liquidation and will not trade under that name again. "There are connections to his other companies within the group that have become apparent today which it may be necessary to include in the investigative function." :: See next week’s West Briton for the exclusive full story of the company’s demise and who was owed how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 It is unfortunate in the LEGAL WORLD that a person can continue running a number of business's when one of the them goes belly up. Why can't a person be responsible for all his debts after all the same person must be a paid director in all of the them. If you have money you can employ highly paid barristers to fight your case and provide the loopholes. It would be interesting to see in this particular case just how this came about. BBC TV didn't pull any punches did they. The plot thickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cornish boy Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Having read the West Briton report today, I must say I am dismayed and ashamed that it seems that the small Helston based firm seems to have had to pay the price for our club to progress into this league. It would seem that without their improvement works to our ground, we would be where we were last season. why should they have to pay £38, 000 for that dubious privilege? Whatever your business leanings and morals, that ain't right not in any one's book. I hear they employ lots of local men. I hope they can go on doing so despite this. It won't do none of us any good if that firm goes belly up cos of this. Less money and all going into the economy or not... and all those families with no income. No matter whose side you are on, its not right and I don't sleep easy at night for it. Esecially not reading bout those trust funds and stuff. Don't try to understand it all, but something aint right. Wake up! What can we do? Hope it all dies a death and goes away? I am not sure about that one. This is gonna rumble on I get the feeling. I don't feel a very proud supporter at this moment in time. Never thought I would ever say that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 There are a great many people who have been waiting for a very long time for the truth to emerge. We are all victims, including the Club, and what is printed on the pages of the 'West Briton' represents only the very tip of the iceberg. It seems that 'truth will out' though. The newspaper is to be applauded for being brave enough to face up to all the bluster, and it's very much to be hoped that they will carry on exposing the real facts as they emerge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Haven't we had this debate on previous posts.While I can understand the frustration of local buisnesses suffering [and I have friends owed money].Mr.Heaney has done nothing wrong LEAGALLY.This happens all the time in the buisness world.Its dog eat dog,especially as the credit crunch bites. Mr Heaney is not Cornwalls fairy god mother,going to wave his wand and make everyone happy. There will be hard times,if one of his companies go bust,as a successful buisnessman,surely got to look after his other assets.Thats common sense and why he is successful. Not everyone will be happy.But this is the hard ,ruthless buisness world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 "Doing it for Cornwall" though Somerset!!! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 What would the football community think,if Mr Heaney paid off all his debts off from his other companies. Then other buisnesses go to the wall,and he has got to quit Truro City Football Club.? So people in buisness are happy.But b-----ks to the football club. Then you got even more unhappy people. Its a no win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 As you quite rightly said, Mr Heaney has done nothing illegal, everything is above board. Its just the way its gone about will upset people. IE: DA Giles, does work for Truro City Football Club, but told to bill Cornish Homes Ltd I'd be very surprised if Cornish Homes were acting as a sub-contractor for Truro City FC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish-blue Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 it will be intresting when more work is needed at truro football club, or for any other cornish homes companys, i wonder which local companys will want to do any works or which ones will be the next to be shafted 165 companys owed money by 1 persons dealings but money still spent on football, i would feel some what embarrassed by the chairman if i were anything to do with TCFC at the moment. you don,t on yr own doorstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Cornish Blue,you talk about on you own doorstep. What would you have done in his position.?Paid back the 165 debts,with a risk of losing the Football Club. Nearly 15,000 smiling faces at Wembley,18 months ago would have made my mind up. What about you.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish-blue Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 you ask what would have i done?? if i had a reported 100million + i would have done the decent thing . with the money he has got paying back the monies owed would hardly make any difference, if you read the paper he is quoted as saying:"even if i could pay back the money owed i,m not aloud to" what a load of , he knew what he was doing its just a shame that the Success of the teams is being over shadowed by the dodgy dealings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Your wrong.The football club is nothing to do with it.Mr Heaney has said that. It would become an issue,if you done it your way. Anyway out of the Companies debt of approx £4m.Wasn't Mr.Heaney owed £2m.? Well I see,your point of view. I'm afraid,I disagree.Mr Heaney have not broken the law,and is looking after the rest of his assets. Any sensible buisnessman,would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish-blue Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 perhaps i am just veiwing it as a small bussiness owner, how can you say "the club is nothing to do with it, heaney said so" i do think the "club" knew nothing about it but come on would you belive what the chairman has to say after the things that have gone on in the last 6 months or so, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Urban Spaceman Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Nearly 15,000 smiling faces at Wembley how many were truro fans and how many went just to see the new stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Come to think about it, I owe myself £100 I'm calling in the legal's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano11 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Have to agree with somerset on this one allthough its not fair thats life. It does happen with a lot of companies everyday this one happens to be with the truro chairman so is abit more high profile Cornish blue no matter what you say you would have done the same in that position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I do sympathise,with the people who are owed the money. But I really cant see what else Mr Heaney could have done. I know Cornish Blue is looking at it from the small buisness point of view. Im sorry Jamthebest,has got it right. The question about the 15,000 Truro fans at Wembley,goes to show their is more to Truro City,than just local support.Its Cornwall. Makes Mr Heaneys decision not to pay his debt,an even easier decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peck1961 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 One of the many things that doesn't 'stack up', is that we've all been told on numerous occasions that what happens with the Cornish Homes group of companies doesn't affect Truro FC at all. Now, from the fallout of the liquidation hearing, we find out businesses who do work for Truro City FC need to invoice Cornish Homes and get paid by Cornish Homes...... so that means if Cornish Homes pays Truro City FC bills, what happens if they're not there anymore, who pays Truro FC's bills, surely a pretty important link methinks!? As my Gran always used to say, 'good liars need good memories'! NB: I think a large number of people went to Wembley on that day 18 months ago to see our brand new national stadium at lower ticket price than for a FA/Carling Cup or England international. Would probably struggle to get a five figure following if they went again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 What ever the arguement,with connections to Truro City,and Mr Heaneys debts. It remains,Mr Heaney has none nothing illegal,and the majority of buisnessmen would do exactly the same,as he has done. Peck,so you believe, if Truro City,reached the F.A.Trophy final at Wembley,they would have less than 10,000 fans there.Absolute rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peck1961 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Peck,so you believe, if Truro City,reached the F.A.Trophy final at Wembley,they would have less than 10,000 fans there.Absolute rubbish. Yeah, call me crazy, but I think they'd struggle. Firstly, the FA Trophy is on a Saturday, when a LOT more fathers would have priorities playing for their local sides. This is unlike the FA Vase on a Sunday, when they could play football on the Saturday, then take the kids/family on day trip to London on the Sunday. The tickets would be upwards of £25, a significant increase on the £15 for the Vase (especially given these times of economic despair) The novelty of seeing Wembley wouldn't be there for some. And probably most importantly, his apparent ruthless business techniques (not knocking it, it's probably what made him successful!) will only increase a lack of empathy from this close-knit county, towards him and anything associated with him. But then again it's not something we'll ever have to worry about, cos they'll never get anywhere near the FA Trophy final. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tavybey Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 "Cornish Boy" and "Watcher" - well done for telling it like it is. "Somerset Spur" - it might be a good idea to stop burying your head in the sand. The game is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishteddyboy Posted October 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 A company does not suddenly owe £4 overnight or even lose that much in a few weeks. A business person should and would know when his firm is going down the pan. If they didn't either they are incompentent as a business person or they have very bad finacial advisors or accountants. I used to run a garage with a turnover of £3m and I knew my balance sheet daily plus I did weekly projections for the future. You had too, to keep on top of things. It would be very interesting to find out when Cornish Homes went into the red and what work was done for Truro City after that time. Surely then if anyone was told to bill Cornish Homes for that work, then whoever told them to bill Cornish Homes was committing fraud as they would know that that person would not get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 As the last thread said,it would be intresting to know.? The trouble on here,apart from the West Briton report, the rest is rumour. As for burying my head in the sand.You want to look where yours is. Facts are as said so many times before,no crime has been committed. If you think the Football Club is going t-ts up.Pop along to Treyew Road this afternoon,for the F.A.Trophy game. I agree it is unlikely Truro getting to Wembley.But my answer was like your comment Peck,hypothetical. The Trophy Final,is the same weekend as the Vase.A lot of people made a weekend of it. Games were cancelled for Saturday and Sunday,plus the final would be near the end of season. Dont you think the CCFA cancel fixtures,just the same,if the Pirates get to Twickenham.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 It's touching that 'Somerset Boy' is so concerned for the legality of Heaney's actions. From the club's fans to the small businesses he owes money to, Heaney has nothing but contempt - his actions speak for themselves, and he thought he'd never get called to account. Well, time's up, Kev mate. Never say never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Dont you think the CCFA cancel fixtures,just the same,if the Pirates get to Twickenham.? No they wouldn't! In any case the decision would be down to the individual leagues and in the past, they have never, ever postponed games because of other clubs involvement in prestige games. When Truro played their Vase final, there was a full fixture programme the day before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 This is getting all a bit boring. I state the facts and the truth,and back Mr Heaney because he has gone and done what any sensible buisnessman,would have done. So then the anti Truro City s--t slingers come on here and spout on about the rumours about being right and wrong. Go and run your buisnesses and play your local football,and sling your rumours elsewhere. Good luck today TRURO CITY.PRIDE OF CORNWALL :c: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I know times are hard for Kevin Heaney at the moment, so it may be that he's taken 'Somerset Spur' on as his personal public relations man. It could be 'Never Say Never' himself! So you think what he's done in the name of 'business' is OK do you? If I wrote you a cheque from my own account knowing there was no money in it and then turned round and said you weren't getting paid because 'that's business', that would be OK would it? Because in anybody else's book that would be fraud, and to any decent minded person I would have conned you. What makes it any different if it's for £50 or £50,000? Heaney owns Truro City, and has cynically used the club as a front to con people into invoicing the company of which he is the sole director for work carried out at the club's ground, which he then puts into voluntary liquidation having stripped out its assets into an offshore trust. Heaney seems quite happy to blur the distinction between his other companies, his own assets, and the club (which is after all only another one of his assets, and just s disposable as any other when times get hard) when it's in his own financial interests to do so. 'Somerset Spur''s loyalty to Heaney is touching, but naive if he thinks Heaney has the same loyalty to the club, its fans, or anyone else. Ask any of his own employees that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Watcher,when is the court case.?When was Mr Heaney charged with any criminal act.? I have said,I sympathise with the people owed money. The facts are there for everyone to see. Just because you think it is fraud.You sling the s--t. Its buisness,thats why he and others make their millions. Take off your blinkers. I have admitted sympathy for people owed money. Cant you see the facts,and see his point of veiw. I repeat he has done nothing wrong LEGALLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 We wait and see with interest. This story has a lot more miles in it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I agree. But I try to comment on the facts in this case. Better start another page. Im sure the rumours will continue,with this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksy007 Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Put it this way. I think Heaney is looking after his interests by winding up a flagging company, in which i completely agree with. But on the other hand, i own one of Cornwall's biggest sign companies, and at this time i would refuse credit facilities for Truro City or Cornish Homes. As for the matter with Gilesy, its always said, money cant buy you class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Nothing wrong with Truro City on the field. 3-0 down against a team in a play off position in the league above them. They fight back with a equaliser in injury time by Yetton. Thats fighting spirit. Criticise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 against a team in a play off position in the league above them It's always great to get something out of a game when you're three down, but sorry Somersetspur to be picky but Truro City are in the equivalent division of the same league as their opponents today Chesham United. The way I read your last post suggested Chesham were above Truro in the pyramid system. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Odgers Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Not from a League above Truro City (3rd.in SL Div.1SW) Chesham United (5th.in SL.Div 1 Mid) Both at Level 4 in the Pyramid. Sounds like a cracking cup tie -When is the replay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Do apologise. Great result though,was a fair result.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 :SM_carton: While you were off apple-bobbin' Somerset-lad, it seems the cases are indeed being prepared.... I'm still not sure how it is that you profess to know so many of "the facts" ? - it appears that it's the likes of the Revenue, Customs or the Receiver who're digging those out. Watch that space - and Never say Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Why dont you just go back and read my threads. Im getting fed up repeating myself,to the likes of you. Rumours again.?You are getting boring. I dont know if you are intrested,Truro drew 3-3,after trailing 3-0. Then you're probably more intrested,in muck spreading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 :wacko: Then DON'T keep repeating yourself !!! Is it a nervous tick ? Don't think that 'The West Briton' deals in rumours, just facts, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Man on the Post Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 The liquidator is currently carrying out his duties so why don't you all stop posting and wait for his report. I know it's a radical idea, but worth a try don't you think? :angry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I can and will do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Mmmmmmmmmmmm........ Problem with that is that it will take them a very long time to go through everything with a fine-toothed comb, and in the meantime hundreds, if not thousands of people, are suffering through no fault of their own. IF Heaney has the money, then he should do the decent thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Man on the Post Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 A thorough and professional job will take as long as it takes! You have all stated your case, (ad nauseum!), so time to take a deep breath and give it a break. When reading this thread I thought I had been transported to a remake of 'Groundhog Day'. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 :excl: IF..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rabone Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Let me just make it clear that I have no affinity with Somersetsput, Tottenham Hotspur, Truro City, Cornish Homes, Kevin Heaney or anything else related to this topic. In fact I really dislike Spurs!! I am just sharing my opinion based on what I know and what I have seen discussed above. I really don't know why some of you are giving somersetspur such a hard time. Somersetspur is trying to put the facts into context and complaining about the way that limited companies are regulated isn't really going to change anything. Somersetspur didn't make up the rules that allow businesses with limitied liability status to have limited liability! Cornish Homes as a business owe money. Kevin Heaney does not actually owe anybody anything in this instance. If Cornish Homes as a company do not have anything of any value to settle any outstanding debts, then Mr Heaney has no personal liability. These are the core facts, the rest is very objective and depends on your personal perspective on ethics and whether an individual should 'do the right thing' when he has no obligation legally to do so. This is a very emotive topic as we all have different values and opinions about what is right and wrong. There has been plenty of talk about 'personal fortunes' which is making the issue even more complexed. We all know that Mr Heaney has a fair few quid knocking around, in a way this is immaterial if we are talking about Cornish Homes going into liquidation. As per my previous post on another thread, I am just wondering how many people faced with this scenario would just cough up out of their own back pocket? It is too easy to sit there and say 'yeah, I would'... I am sure that there are many people out there who probably would if they had the same amount of money as Mr Heaney has. This matter is made more complicated by the fact that the owner/director still has money of his own. Sadly many failing businesses cause financial ruin for business owners. Imagine you owed 250 grand after your business failed - would you sell your house and your car and everything you have to settle up a debt that you actually had no personal liability for? Would you do that to your family so you could do 'the right thing'? I also know that being in business changes people and you can't account for what money and/or success does to people. Some of the most senior business people I have met can only be described as one thing - a word I cannot use here. Reasonably nice people with a heartless and ruthless streak may be a more appropriate term. Sadly small businesses who act within the parameters of ethics seem to struggle when times are hard. Rightly or wrongly, it is businessmen like Kevin Heaney who will continue to make a success out of what they do regardless of what the circumstances are and as a result he is likely to be considered a successful business person. Maybe not liked - but successful as he has a knack of making big decisions at the right time. I am genuinely sorry for those individuals that have lost money, especially in the volumes that Cornish Homes appear to owe. Cornish Homes don't appear to have collapsed, as I understand it, this was one part of a group of companies that dealt with the construction side of the business. Cornish Homes would be daft to build houses at a time when people can't get mortgages and confidence is low. If they aren't building houses then there is no revenue for that indiviual company. The other individual Cornish Homes businesses seem to be working fine, have a look at Companies House to see how many standalone businesses exist. I can see that there are a broad range of legal, moral and ethical issues here. We seem to know only a small part of what is happening, so it will be interesting to see what consequences follow. I will await further feedback with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 :SM_carton: :SM_carton "Let me just make it clear that I have no affinity with Somersetsput, Tottenham Hotspur, Truro City, Cornish Homes, Kevin Heaney or anything else related to this topic. In fact I really dislike Spurs!! I am just sharing my opinion based on what I know and what I have seen discussed above. I really don't know why some of you are giving somersetspur such a hard time. Somersetspur is trying to put the facts into context and complaining about the way that limited companies are regulated isn't really going to change anything. Somersetspur didn't make up the rules that allow businesses with limitied liability status to have limited liability! Cornish Homes as a business owe money. Kevin Heaney does not actually owe anybody anything in this instance. If Cornish Homes as a company do not have anything of any value to settle any outstanding debts, then Mr Heaney has no personal liability. These are the core facts, the rest is very objective and depends on your personal perspective on ethics and whether an individual should 'do the right thing' when he has no obligation legally to do so. This is a very emotive topic as we all have different values and opinions about what is right and wrong. There has been plenty of talk about 'personal fortunes' which is making the issue even more complexed. We all know that Mr Heaney has a fair few quid knocking around, in a way this is immaterial if we are talking about Cornish Homes going into liquidation. As per my previous post on another thread, I am just wondering how many people faced with this scenario would just cough up out of their own back pocket? It is too easy to sit there and say 'yeah, I would'... I am sure that there are many people out there who probably would if they had the same amount of money as Mr Heaney has. This matter is made more complicated by the fact that the owner/director still has money of his own. Sadly many failing businesses cause financial ruin for business owners. Imagine you owed 250 grand after your business failed - would you sell your house and your car and everything you have to settle up a debt that you actually had no personal liability for? Would you do that to your family so you could do 'the right thing'? I also know that being in business changes people and you can't account for what money and/or success does to people. Some of the most senior business people I have met can only be described as one thing - a word I cannot use here. Reasonably nice people with a heartless and ruthless streak may be a more appropriate term. Sadly small businesses who act within the parameters of ethics seem to struggle when times are hard. Rightly or wrongly, it is businessmen like Kevin Heaney who will continue to make a success out of what they do regardless of what the circumstances are and as a result he is likely to be considered a successful business person. Maybe not liked - but successful as he has a knack of making big decisions at the right time. I am genuinely sorry for those individuals that have lost money, especially in the volumes that Cornish Homes appear to owe. Cornish Homes don't appear to have collapsed, as I understand it, this was one part of a group of companies that dealt with the construction side of the business. Cornish Homes would be daft to build houses at a time when people can't get mortgages and confidence is low. If they aren't building houses then there is no revenue for that indiviual company. The other individual Cornish Homes business seem to be working fine, have a look at Companies House to see how many standalone businesses exist. I can see that there are a broad range of legal, moral and ethical issues here. We seem to know only a small part of what is happening, so it will be interesting to see what consequences follow. I will await further feedback with interest." Mitch, Yours is a very reasoned and intelligent posting, but for the fact of one phrase in your very first paragraph - "......based on what I know......." which is its one (excusable yet critical) weakness, and one which you clearly recognise yourself - "We seem only to know a small part of what is happening...." If the facts really were as you suggest as one possible reading of them, then fair enough - or not, depending on your morals or viewpoint - but you're right, just how many wealthy, but great souls, does the average person know ? It could just be read as the cut and thrust of the business world. But if there is another reading of the situation which, as you have done, accepts that only some - perhaps only a minute percentage - of the facts are known, then possibly the whole picture starts to look very different indeed. Perhaps it's also worth considering the 'balance of probability' issue - when, and after how long, does a pattern of events, however much spin is put on it, go beyond 'market forces' or 'coincidence', and become either 'unlikely', 'cruel', 'calculated', 'criminal' or 'amoral', to quote but a few of the phrases that other writers have recently been explored ? Our 'Somerset' friend seems strangely pre-occupied with what is legal/illegal, lawful/criminal in what has brought about this hideous state of affairs; less so with the consequences for blameless victims. You say that you don't know, Mitch, why he's getting such a 'hard time' from some - perhaps it's all a question of degree. You know, cause and effect; reap what you sow; do as you would be done by - and all that. Old- fashioned values, but not from old-fashioned people. What you say about so-called business ethics, or the state of the markets, is of course true enough, because a lot of it comes down to matters of opinion. Yet the fact remains, as part of a much, much bigger picture, that 'rights and wrongs' can, should, and will be judged in due course. Success is not just a question of apparently having "the knack to make big decisions at the right time". It can also flow from appearances, and practised approaches; a PR wall, or the armour that acquisition can provide, for example. And in such cases, there are inevitably costs beyond the most literal, by which I mean the human ones - real people, real adults, real children, real families and real lives. It's not just "business", not just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rabone Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Watcher - thank you. It is such a real shame that we are talking about matters that have huge consequences for individuals who do not deserve to be in this position. As mentioned, I have no idea about the true extent of this matter and I doubt any of us will ever really know exactly what has happened. I do know that in the end less people will gain and many more will lose out, telling me that proportionally there is a gross injustice occurring. We have to hope that there is enough transparency in the process to establish the extent of the bigger picture that you refer to. I just find it concerning that trading legislation allows the freedom for this type of matter to occur. I have personally been a creditor who has lost money when a limited company ceased trading. There was clear evidence of wrongdoing yet the limited liability aspect meant that I, along with a number of others, lost money. It still makes me sick to think about it, yet the former owners are now trading under another name and have set up a new business trading in a very similar fashion. It is outrageous that this is allowed to occur and it tells me that where there is scope to act in a cruel, calculated, criminal or immoral manner, then ultimately some people will do so, exploiting the opportunity without any real consequence or deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truros mr mourinho Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 thanks so much watcher,i was having troulble going off to sleep,then i read your posts and hay presto off like a light so f/./../g boring :angry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DAHughes Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 thanks so much watcher,i was having troulble going off to sleep,then i read your posts and hay presto off like a light so f/./../g boring I think I agree to a certain extent. The erudition of the post referred to above clouds the message to the extent that it has become meaningless. However, trying to avoid the legal/moral issues relating to the demise of Cornish Homes, surely Kevin Heaney needs to protect his other business interests and so help protect the prospects of Cornish people (not just those willing TCFC to greater success) I'll agree that there is a strong moral issue regarding the invoicing of Cornish Homes for work done at the football club (I'm not sure whether TCFC is a limited company or not and this may have some relevance to the invoicing matter). There is also a need for caution with regard to the West Briton digging for the truth, as they are a Cornish Homes creditor, they have an interest in any resolution of the issue. Can they be relied upon to provide a balanced and unbiased view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somersetspur Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Here are some facts ,not rumours. It seems our wonderful Prime Minister,Mr.Brown and his super Goverment,are going to introduce a financial plan to help ALL small buisnesses that are having problems due to the present financial climate. If we can beleive Mr.Brown,it would seem the small buisnesses that are going down the pan,could get aid. There may be a couple of things that could happen now.[if this is true] The small buisnesses owed money by Cornish Homes,may be compensated in some way.Good news. On the other hand,Cornish Homes may also be in a position to claim some sort of financial help from this Goverment scheme. Wouldn't be an added bonus that ALL small buisnesses in Cornwall get help,and also Cornish Homes, Mr.Heaney,Truro City all come out of this happy. Would that not be ironic.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watcher Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Here are some facts ,not rumours. It seems our wonderful Prime Minister,Mr.Brown and his super Goverment,are going to introduce a financial plan to help ALL small buisnesses that are having problems due to the present financial climate. If we can beleive Mr.Brown,it would seem the small buisnesses that are going down the pan,could get aid. There may be a couple of things that could happen now.[if this is true] The small buisnesses owed money by Cornish Homes,may be compensated in some way.Good news. On the other hand,Cornish Homes may also be in a position to claim some sort of financial help from this Goverment scheme. Wouldn't be an added bonus that ALL small buisnesses in Cornwall get help,and also Cornish Homes, Mr.Heaney,Truro City all come out of this happy. Would that not be ironic.? How are these "facts", when in the next breath you say, "if this is true." ? Looks more like SS propeganda again. Are you on the payroll ? And how is this "ironic", exactly ? Are you thinking that we could all access higher Spelling lessons ? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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