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Trelawny League Saturday 12th May


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Probus 4-1 Wendron. Div 2.

1st half ended 1-1. When in truth Wendron should have a second from the spot, but missed the retake. 

2nd half and a change from Probus gave us more movement up top and a better battle in the middle. Took the lead from a penalty, before Connor Rhodes was slipped in around the back to finish his hat trick. A 4th came from the penalty spot from Justin Trebilcock.

Overall a well battled game by 2 top of the table fighting sides. And a scoreline that probably flattered Probus. Hopefully enough to secure 2nd place and a 3rd successive promotion for Probus.

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25 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

In the Trelawny Premier today, Camborne School of Mines lost, Lizard Argyle won. I believe that both Wendron Reserves and Lizard are now in promotion positions. If I am right two up, two down from the Combo.

 

Correct, however I have seen TWO league tables today in the combination league, both have Holmans on different points?

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4 minutes ago, Sijames said:

Correct, however I have seen TWO league tables today in the combination league, both have Holmans on different points?

If you look at full-time and then go on Holmans own part of it you will see that for 23rd September Holmans were awarded a home win over Illogan giving them 3 points. This game was actually fixtured for that date and played with Illogan winning 4-3. 

So basically full-time is wrong. Like today it has Port beating Perranporth 4-2 when that score should be reversed.

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There are several things wrong with the full time table.

Perranporth have played 35 games not 36. Even full time shows 3 games to play.

Illogan have played 34 games not 35. Their record reads W12, D7, L15. One of those draws was a classed as a 0-0 when they failed to fulfil a fixture at Perranporth and also lost 3 points. They also lost 3 points for playing an unregistered player earlier on in the season. So their real points total is 42 minus 6. I know full time says 36 but it is a wrong 36! 

Thirdly Holmans should be on 18 points as explained in my last posting. Their record should read W5, D3, L25

13 minutes ago, zebedee said:

So who is to blame for it then Paul ? 

A computer. We need to go back to the days of pencil and paper.

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56 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

There are several things wrong with the full time table.

Perranporth have played 35 games not 36. Even full time shows 3 games to play.

Illogan have played 34 games not 35. Their record reads W12, D7, L15. One of those draws was a classed as a 0-0 when they failed to fulfil a fixture at Perranporth and also lost 3 points. They also lost 3 points for playing an unregistered player earlier on in the season. So their real points total is 42 minus 6. I know full time says 36 but it is a wrong 36! 

Thirdly Holmans should be on 18 points as explained in my last posting. Their record should read W5, D3, L25

A computer. We need to go back to the days of pencil and paper.

It’s really not hard to sort Full Time out, you just need to understand the system. You shouldn’t have 0-0 draws for when teams can’t raise a side. They are not draws - they’ve been unable to fulfil a Fixture so it should go down as a Home or away win.

Very easy to do on Full Time - you’ve just got to know how to work it. 

The perranporth one is messed up because you've added a table adjustment on the 18/12/17 as a game played (drawn/tied on 4/11/18). thats from the Illogan result, yet you’ve got that game down as a H-W so there’s your extra game and I will assume, without counting, they will have an extra point because of that! That’s an administration error.

Illogans showing as an extra game played for that exact same reason that I’ve stated above. That table adjustment! If they lose three points, that’s a table adjustment also. I don’t get what you mean by a “wrong 36”  if their points total is 42 yet they’ve been deducted 6 points, then there actual total is 36? There’s no wrong about it - that would be fact?

These errors are not down to full time, they are down to incorrect administration on the site - a lack of understanding of the table adjustment function.

If you need help figuring it out, I’m able to help if needbe.

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St Ives Mariners 3-3 St Just Seconds (HT 0-1)

An enjoyable end to end game with both teams playing in good spirits. The draw definitely a fair result, with Mariners scoring a last minute penalty. Well reffed and a good game for the neutral!

Great hospitality as always from Mariners, thanks again ??

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Division 3.

Falmouth DC 8-1 Newlyn NA reserves.

Dracaena looked as good as it has all season - i dont think I've seen grass on it in May before ? - and the surface lent itself to a good passing game.

Falmouth took an early lead but were soon pegged back by Newlyn.   However DC then took control and led 5-1 at half time.   In the second half Falmouth played some good football and scored 3 more goals but Newlyn had chances in the game. 

Despite the scoreline Newlyn never dropped their heads.  Many thanks to them for coming back to the bar after game.

Also thanks to https://www.upperdeckfalmouth.com for the food and hospitality after the game.

 

Return fixture at Newlyn next Saturday.

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45 minutes ago, Shifty said:

Division 3.

Falmouth DC 8-1 Newlyn NA reserves.

Dracaena looked as good as it has all season - i dont think I've seen grass on it in May before ? - and the surface lent itself to a good passing game.

Falmouth took an early lead but were soon pegged back by Newlyn.   However DC then took control and led 5-1 at half time.   In the second half Falmouth played some good football and scored 3 more goals but Newlyn had chances in the game. 

Despite the scoreline Newlyn never dropped their heads.  Many thanks to them for coming back to the bar after game.

Also thanks to https://www.upperdeckfalmouth.com for the food and hospitality after the game.

 

Return fixture at Newlyn next Saturday.

Top stuff Shifty. Agreed, FDC deserved winners. We tried our best, but it was not to be. And the Upper Deck.......nice, very nice. Cheers!

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1 hour ago, B_D said:

It’s really not hard to sort Full Time out, you just need to understand the system. You shouldn’t have 0-0 draws for when teams can’t raise a side. They are not draws - they’ve been unable to fulfil a Fixture so it should go down as a Home or away win.

Very easy to do on Full Time - you’ve just got to know how to work it. 

The perranporth one is messed up because you've added a table adjustment on the 18/12/17 as a game played (drawn/tied on 4/11/18). thats from the Illogan result, yet you’ve got that game down as a H-W so there’s your extra game and I will assume, without counting, they will have an extra point because of that! That’s an administration error.

Illogans showing as an extra game played for that exact same reason that I’ve stated above. That table adjustment! If they lose three points, that’s a table adjustment also. I don’t get what you mean by a “wrong 36”  if their points total is 42 yet they’ve been deducted 6 points, then there actual total is 36? There’s no wrong about it - that would be fact?

These errors are not down to full time, they are down to incorrect administration on the site - a lack of understanding of the table adjustment function.

If you need help figuring it out, I’m able to help if needbe.

It's not me that does it. I have my own website and it's done by paper and pencil.

The wrong 36 points as it does not match their playing record.

http://www.cornwallcomboleague.co.uk/nindex.html

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3 hours ago, B_D said:

If you need a hand correcting it Paul (or whoever does it), let me know and I'll help out. 

I beginning to think I'm in a small minority that thinks recording the score as 0 - 0 for an unplayed game makes it a draw in the league table. Neither team has won or lost the game but there should be a points adjustment for both teams to reflect the circumstances. If you take HW or AW to represent home or away "walk-over" rather than home or away "win" it all makes sense in my mind. At the end of a season if points and goal difference are equal, the number of games won are taken into account when determining league positions and you cannot win a game which was never played - even if you were awarded the points.

I must take the blame for persuading Paul Smith that mine is the correct method of dealing with this situation and that Full-Time has got it wrong - but either way the points total should be the same in any league table!

I must add that I don't administer the Combo Full-Time site!

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8 hours ago, John Mead said:

I beginning to think I'm in a small minority that thinks recording the score as 0 - 0 for an unplayed game makes it a draw in the league table. Neither team has won or lost the game but there should be a points adjustment for both teams to reflect the circumstances. If you take HW or AW to represent home or away "walk-over" rather than home or away "win" it all makes sense in my mind. At the end of a season if points and goal difference are equal, the number of games won are taken into account when determining league positions and you cannot win a game which was never played - even if you were awarded the points.

I must take the blame for persuading Paul Smith that mine is the correct method of dealing with this situation and that Full-Time has got it wrong - but either way the points total should be the same in any league table!

I must add that I don't administer the Combo Full-Time site!

If a team forefeit a game, it's a home or away walkover. That's a “technical” win because they haven't had the opportunity to play a game that they could have won. It's not their fault that the game was forefeited so it goes down as a win for the non offending side. 

If you wanted to do it the way you've explained, you'd need to make two table adjustments - the first would be for both teams as a game played and the other the awarding of points. 

With regards to the relegation/promotion circumstances, in my personal opinion you can't take a game away from a club that they could have won - when it was awarded to them by the opposition. They could have won the walkover game which would have given them an extra three points - that's how it was explained to me when I started using the system. Although they get the three points, they should also have the win stat aswell.

It all depends on your interpretation of the ruling I suppose.

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9 hours ago, John Mead said:

I beginning to think I'm in a small minority that thinks recording the score as 0 - 0 for an unplayed game makes it a draw in the league table. Neither team has won or lost the game but there should be a points adjustment for both teams to reflect the circumstances. If you take HW or AW to represent home or away "walk-over" rather than home or away "win" it all makes sense in my mind. At the end of a season if points and goal difference are equal, the number of games won are taken into account when determining league positions and you cannot win a game which was never played - even if you were awarded the points.

This is catered for in the Trelawny Rules (12a(ii)) as follows:

'.......In the event that two or more teams have the same goal difference and have scored the same number of goals then the highest placed team shall be the team which has won the most matches not including ‘walk-overs’.

A similar tweak to the Combination Rules would make life much simpler for your FT administrator.

15 hours ago, zebedee said:

Or will it be 3 down 2 up ?

Illogan plus 2 ...or just Illogan and bottom team .

really confused now ?

All covered by the various FA and League Rules Dave.

1.  Combination Rules allow for a maximum of 20 teams.

2. Combination (Annex B and Trelawny (12e) Rules cover promotion/relegation and mirror each other.  In simple terms this would mean 2 up 2 down subject to the number of applications and the criteria being met.  I understand that Wendron and Lizard have applied but I'm unaware of whether Lizard have met the ground grading requirements or not.  I assume that they have which would mean that having finished 3rd they and Wendron would be promoted.

3.  Combination (and Trelawny) Rules do not allow 2 teams of the same Club in the same division and FA Rules are clear in that if a team is relegated into a division/league where its reserve team competes then that reserve team shall be relegated.

4.  Trelawny Rules (12b) allows for the Premier Division to have an additional team (i.e. comprise 15 teams) due to relegation due to feeder league system rules.

Roll all of this together and you end up with Illogan Firsts, Wendron & Lizard in the Combination and Illogan Reserves plus whoever ends up in the bottom 2 of the Combination in Trelawny Prem.  This would give a Combination of 20 teams and a Trelawny Prem of 15.

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As I said at the beginning of my post, I'm aware my opinion is not shared by others but the rule says that the result must be recorded as 0 - 0, which can only be a draw! I believe the programmer of full-time thought H/W and A/W related to wins rather than walk-overs and designed the program along those lines - an easy mistake to make as he or she is unlikely to be directly involved in club or league admin. Anyway, I am confident and happy that nothing will change!!

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