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Trelawny League - Saturday 21 April 2018


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Jesus this is long winded! It isn't hard is it? Clearly Probus played (unknowingly?!?) an ineligible player, they will lose the points and the opposition should (varies depending on who you talk to/are!) get the points. It worries me that the answer from the people that be is so vague and they're unsure about it!!!! ??

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9 minutes ago, Sijames said:

Jesus this is long winded! It isn't hard is it? Clearly Probus played (unknowingly?!?) an ineligible player, they will lose the points and the opposition should (varies depending on who you talk to/are!) get the points. It worries me that the answer from the people that be is so vague and they're unsure about it!!!! ??

That’s because it isn’t a decision that the”people that be” make. The “people that be” do not decide or determine what games count as served for a suspension, nor is it down to them to determine player eligibility when suspensions are a factor.

Suspensions have nothing to do with the League, unless the player/team are serving a league-enforced suspension. 

When an eligibility question is raised with the league, we will contact the FA regardless of what we know (and don’t know). When it flashes up on Full Time (to me behind the scenes), I will contact Cornwall FA, regardless of what the club tell me and regardless of what I believe to be correct/incorrect. It’s called procedure.

 

If it is found to be a matter of fact that the player in question was suspended for this game; the team will be charged, they will lose any points gained from the fixture and the game will be awarded to the opponents in accordance with Trelawny League ruling. That is determined by what Cornwall FA say. It will be the same with the sending off yesterday, this will be down to Cornwall FA to decide and then give guidance to the League. We have no say in misconduct. That’s for the County.

 

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In other news...

A massive thank you to Helston Thirds yesterday. After our ref did not show one of their substitutes officistaed the first half and did a great job. Our joint manager, Andrew Mitchell did most of the second half before Michael ‘Porky’ Carter officiated the last 25 minutes after a energy boosting cigarette. 

Thanks to all of them! 

Helston put in a really good performance with Keegan McPhilbin and Ben Stidwell showing their class in central midfield. They deservedly took the lead but we levelled through Coleman.

We got a rather fortuitous winner after a deflected clearance was palmed into the back of the net by the keeper, who went on to redeem himself with several great saves (he pulled off a couple from 1-on-1s in the first half too).

Our fourth team carried on their impressive form, beating Goonhavern 5-0. It takes them up to fourth, great form since Tony Whitehead has taken over! 

 

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I personally haven't got the time, or energy, to read through all the posts on this thread. If we (Probus) have done anything wrong then I'm I'm sure we will apologise, and we will be punished accordingly. My understanding is that a CLUB can select which games for a CLUB that a player will be suspended for eg 1st team or 2nd team from the same CLUB. 

Ps I'm not in any official capacity at the club.

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5 hours ago, John Mead said:

Sorry to harp on about this but - as the FA rule clearly states, qualifying matches relate to the team the player was playing for in the match in which he was sent off. Matches played by a Clubs other teams do not count!

So if a player gets sent off for the first team, and gets a 3 match ban, that is for the first team, so he can play in the “clubs” reserve  team until his ban is up, when he can start playing first team again?

 

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48 minutes ago, Mangle said:

So if a player gets sent off for the first team, and gets a 3 match ban, that is for the first team, so he can play in the “clubs” reserve  team until his ban is up, when he can start playing first team again?

 

No. He's banned from all Saturday adult football until the first team have played three competition games!

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36 minutes ago, John Mead said:

No. He's banned from all Saturday adult football until the first team have played three competition games!

Exactly how I understood it. We had a lad sent off at the end of one season. Next season, through other teams not able to play, no refs, weather (I know it was September but it's true) he had to wait about 6 weeks to serve a 3 game ban! Harsh, but that's his fault for getting sent off!

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Don't midweek games count? Also, seems a bit tough. If a reserve team player stepped up to the first team, got his marching orders, and the first team was not playing regularly for the next few weeks, he could not play for ages even if his regular (reserve) team were playing (refer to @ballsax comments above).

Grass roots football.

I never complain about refereeing on this forum. Never. We are short of referees, I have stepped up and reffed many times myself, including this season. Thankless task. Ultimately, some sendings off, including ones I have witnessed, have been "harsh", whilst other times, clear red cards are not given. I would say at grass roots level, which is in decline massively as we all know, should consider the "team" rule as "club" within the same standard (junior/senior) football. Give the players/clubs a chance!

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Unfairly, in my opinion, players in the higher levels of the game are allowed to play for reserve teams while suspended from first team games. I assume this is mainly because they are mainly full-time pros and it could be regarded as a "restrictive practice" if they were not allowed to play at all?

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Just imagine you’re with a club with two Trelawny League sides.

Youre normally a second team player and you’ve been asked to help out and play for the firsts in their last game of the season, while the seconds have still got a load of games left to complete the season.

Do you play or decline in case of dismissal and thus avoid the risk of missing all those games for your normal team?

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The vast majority of dismissals are correct. Whether straight reds or from two yellow cards. We all love to blame officials, but as players you give them a reason to issue a red card through your own actions. Yes, some may be wrong in your eyes - but the vast majority are correct. 

As far as I can see it, there’s not a better way to police it then the one in current operation - and it’s pretty clear I think? 

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4 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

Just imagine you’re with a club with two Trelawny League sides.

Youre normally a second team player and you’ve been asked to help out and play for the firsts in their last game of the season, while the seconds have still got a load of games left to complete the season.

Do you play or decline in case of dismissal and thus avoid the risk of missing all those games for your normal team?

If that was the case Dave, the suspension would be carried over to next season and he would be eligible to play for the reserves in their remaining season. If he moves during the summer to a different club who have a team at the same level as the 1st team of his previous club, the qualifying matches can move to his new club. If he moves anywhere other than that, the qualifying games remain with the 1st team of his previous club!

Gets complicated doesn't it!

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2 hours ago, John Mead said:

If that was the case Dave, the suspension would be carried over to next season and he would be eligible to play for the reserves in their remaining season. If he moves during the summer to a different club who have a team at the same level as the 1st team of his previous club, the qualifying matches can move to his new club. If he moves anywhere other than that, the qualifying games remain with the 1st team of his previous club!

Gets complicated doesn't it!

?

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Ok. I’m still confused (doesn’t take much). A reserve team player steps up, plays first team, sent off.

1. Can he play for the reserves during the ban?

a) yes, b) no

In the case of a), ok, just cant play for the “team” he was sent off for. In the case if b),  surely first team and reserve team games both count towards the suspension period, as long as the games do not fall on the same day (ignoring double headers).

2. Which club games count towards the suspension? (If this has not been answered above).

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20 minutes ago, Mangle said:

Ok. I’m still confused (doesn’t take much). A reserve team player steps up, plays first team, sent off.

1. Can he play for the reserves during the ban?

a) yes, b) no

In the case of a), ok, just cant play for the “team” he was sent off for. In the case if b),  surely first team and reserve team games both count towards the suspension period, as long as the games do not fall on the same day (ignoring double headers).

2. Which club games count towards the suspension? (If this has not been answered above).

I'm of the understanding that the player can't play again for any Saturday side until his ban has elapsed (the team he was playing for when he was sent off has played the amount of games dictated by the FA on the ban). Only the games played by the TEAM he was sent off for count towards the ban.

 

I've been doing my research today - it can get quite confusing! However, I can confirm that I have been in touch with the County FA and they have said that a players ban will only decrease by the games played by the team he was sent off for. In the case of this player at Probus who was banned on the 14th, he has unfortunately played whilst suspended (the club have been notified). The fact that their reserve team played on the 17th is irrelevant as this is not the team he was banned from, so it doesn't count towards the ban. Unfortunately for Probus, due to a lack of understanding (purely an accident), they will lose the points gained from this fixture and it will be awarded to Storm.

 

I will be sending further guidance out to the Clubs this week as this scenario hasn't cropped up yet this season (until now). It is easy to get wrong - doing so can be costly, particularly if you are chasing promotion or in a relegation battle.

Regardless, the best advice I can give our club administrators is simple: If any doubt exists, contact Cornwall Football Association. They will be more than happy to tell you when the player(s) will become eligible to play again.

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32 minutes ago, Mangle said:

Ok. I’m still confused (doesn’t take much). A reserve team player steps up, plays first team, sent off.

1. Can he play for the reserves during the ban?

a) yes, b) no

In the case of a), ok, just cant play for the “team” he was sent off for. In the case if b),  surely first team and reserve team games both count towards the suspension period, as long as the games do not fall on the same day (ignoring double headers).

2. Which club games count towards the suspension? (If this has not been answered above).

I think the above post by D_B fully explains the situation: the rules haven't changed since match bans replaced days!

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You now know what I was so awful at woodwork Mr Mead, too confused all the time, I didn’t know what was going on! ?

Furthermore, being an upstanding member of the local football playing community, being sent off is nothing I am familiar with,  so no wonder I don’t know the rules!

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Still seems unfair if I’m honest. A player is fully eligible for different teams for the same club, until a suspension comes along, whereby that suspension precludes the player from his availability in other teams (from which the suspension occurred), and at the same time ignoring any games of these other teams that are otherwise being played. A double blow.

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Probus FC would like to apologise to the Trelawny League and Storm FC for fielding an ineligible player on Saturday. It was a genuine mistake, as the individual has represented both teams during the season and due to a misinterpretation of the rules, we believed the ban to be for the club as he was not able to play for either team.

After clarification from the CCFA today the ruling is that the player is banned from all Saturday football until the team has played the requisite number of games.

We did not knowingly play an ineligible player as we believed the first game of the double header on Saturday to be the final game of the ban. The is the first time that I can recall a mistake like this ever being made and we have been punished accordingly.

As someone who holds many roles at the club (including manager, secretary, coach, assistant treasurer, pitch setter up, cleaner and occasion player) I must take full responsibility for the mistake.

On another note it certainly made for a entertaining forum topic and discussion point.

Tony Penrose Probus FC

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1 hour ago, Chris Davey said:

Probus FC would like to apologise to the Trelawny League and Storm FC for fielding an ineligible player on Saturday. It was a genuine mistake, as the individual has represented both teams during the season and due to a misinterpretation of the rules, we believed the ban to be for the club as he was not able to play for either team.

After clarification from the CCFA today the ruling is that the player is banned from all Saturday football until the team has played the requisite number of games.

We did not knowingly play an ineligible player as we believed the first game of the double header on Saturday to be the final game of the ban. The is the first time that I can recall a mistake like this ever being made and we have been punished accordingly.

As someone who holds many roles at the club (including manager, secretary, coach, assistant treasurer, pitch setter up, cleaner and occasion player) I must take full responsibility for the mistake.

On another note it certainly made for a entertaining forum topic and discussion point.

Tony Penrose Probus FC

A genuine mistake, unlike other "mistakes" that have been made over the years.

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On 22/04/2018 at 11:19, #sausagefingers said:

Regarding the suspension rule we had a player for our reserve's sent off  the first team had played 3 games since his suspension date but the 2nds left him out yesterday so his one game ban was served.but reading through posts he could of been selected after all ?

No ambition at the club

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10 hours ago, Chris Davey said:

Probus FC would like to apologise to the Trelawny League and Storm FC for fielding an ineligible player on Saturday. It was a genuine mistake, as the individual has represented both teams during the season and due to a misinterpretation of the rules, we believed the ban to be for the club as he was not able to play for either team.

After clarification from the CCFA today the ruling is that the player is banned from all Saturday football until the team has played the requisite number of games.

We did not knowingly play an ineligible player as we believed the first game of the double header on Saturday to be the final game of the ban. The is the first time that I can recall a mistake like this ever being made and we have been punished accordingly.

As someone who holds many roles at the club (including manager, secretary, coach, assistant treasurer, pitch setter up, cleaner and occasion player) I must take full responsibility for the mistake.

On another note it certainly made for a entertaining forum topic and discussion point.

Tony Penrose Probus FC

Head up mate...its an easy rule to get confused with.. especially as not everyone was sure  on here.. it clearly wasnt on purpose. 

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Play for a club which has a first team in combination & a reserve team in the Trelawney league. In September I played my first ever game for our reserves & got sent off. I had to wait untill our reserves had played 3 games before I was eligible to play again. Due to cancellations & postponements I missed 12 first team games & couldn't play again until February. I phoned the ccfa many times to see if anything could be done, despite Richard Pallot being extremely helpful it turned out I had to sit it out & wait. So I'm ? sure the said player was ineligible and his team will be deducted the points

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21 hours ago, Chris Davey said:

Probus FC would like to apologise to the Trelawny League and Storm FC for fielding an ineligible player on Saturday. It was a genuine mistake, as the individual has represented both teams during the season and due to a misinterpretation of the rules, we believed the ban to be for the club as he was not able to play for either team.

After clarification from the CCFA today the ruling is that the player is banned from all Saturday football until the team has played the requisite number of games.

We did not knowingly play an ineligible player as we believed the first game of the double header on Saturday to be the final game of the ban. The is the first time that I can recall a mistake like this ever being made and we have been punished accordingly.

As someone who holds many roles at the club (including manager, secretary, coach, assistant treasurer, pitch setter up, cleaner and occasion player) I must take full responsibility for the mistake.

On another note it certainly made for a entertaining forum topic and discussion point.

Tony Penrose Probus FC

Should of asked me mate, I'm good at rules. ?

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4 hours ago, addick1 said:

That's an unfortunate mistake that should hand the Division 2 title to Newlyn Lions. Can't see them letting a 4 point advantage slip now with only 4 games left to play.

Newlyn won't drop 4 points in there last 4 games and deservedly will win the league. They are are excellent team who we have battled with for the last 4 seasons. Our objective at the start of the season hasn't changed though and that is we want to try and achieve promotion. Some really difficult games to go but we will give it our best shot.

4 hours ago, manutdfcok said:

Should of asked me mate, I'm good at rules. ?

Wish we had mate! Onwards and upwards for the rest of the season ?

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