No promotion?

[Sijames]

I've just been told there may not be ANY promotion from the trelawny league premier at the end of this season, if so is this a good move? Surly teams have the right to go up?

[S Abbo]

I have heard Lizard and Wendron are interested... with 2 up from prem ...2 down from combo....

[Martin Eddy]

I agree with babo if there are clubs wanting promotion then they should have the chance.if your team is not good enough over a season then you forfiet the chance to stay up see what happened to Ludgvan/Pothleven the club just stagnated in the combo but by going down they both came back stronger.this is what football is all about

[Fish]

If Illogan coming back down to Combo then probably only one going down??

probably need a league restructure in Trelawny anyway to make leagues more uniform (14 or 16 per league?)

[S Abbo]

2 hours ago, Fish said:

If Illogan coming back down to Combo then probably only one going down??

probably need a league restructure in Trelawny anyway to make leagues more uniform (14 or 16 per league?)

Not sure ... but sure we will all find out soon enough. 

[Martin Eddy]

It may be automatic anyhow because of ongoing talks of amalgamation of the two leagues

[Dave Bartlam]

I can't read the original post (I have blocked the guy) but I am assuming that it's to do with promotion to the Combination? 

Just so you are aware of the facts: 

1. We have had clubs approach the league regarding promotion from Trelawny Premier to the Combination League. Teams do want to get promoted.
2. There has been talk about Illogan dropping down to Trelawny Premier, however I'm yet to hear of anything formal. That will be a decision made between the Combination and Trelawny League Committees in accordance with their respective rules. How that will work is again down to the League(s).
3. The combining of the Combination League and the Trelawny League has been discussed at an "initial" meeting - however nothing has been agreed. Again, I have not heard anything to suggest otherwise. Until anything formal has been agreed, both Leagues will exists as two seperate ones.
4. With the loss of Chacewater (x2), Marazion and Mabe there will be a little bit of "jiggery-pokery" between the divisions. I am yet to hear of any team teams wanting to join the Trelawny League for the 18/19 season (there's been nothing formal). This could mean we lose a division, or it could mean having smaller numbers in each division which could actually benefit the League and the clubs - where match postponements don't have a huge effect on the teams towards the end of the season.

As part of my role, I will be looking at all the teams that we have in the League and I'll create some League tables which will  be discussed at the final league committee meeting before the AGM and then put forward to the clubs at the AGM itself - Your League, Your decision. Those in promotion positions will get promoted (for Trelawny > Combo that is subject to acceptance), those in relegation positions will be relegated (depending on division that they are bottom in - some divisions will only see one relegation due to the aforementioned teams folding). Our League Rules make this pretty clear.

 

We are still quite a way away from the end of the season, many things can (and will) change between now and then. I wouldn't get too hung up on what you see/hear unless it comes direct from the League  

[WendronOfficial]

On 27/12/2017 at 16:51, S Abbo said:

I have heard Lizard and Wendron are interested... with 2 up from prem ...2 down from combo....

Or is this something you assume from last year?

7 hours ago, Fish said:

If Illogan coming back down to Combo then probably only one going down??

probably need a league restructure in Trelawny anyway to make leagues more uniform (14 or 16 per league?)

How can Illogan enter the Trelawny Prem? The only way that this would happen would be if their current Combo team finishes in a relegation place. At this time it does not seem likely with both Holman and Culdrose both off the pace. 

If their first team withdrew from the SWPL - not relegated - their Combination team would become their first team, with their Div 2(?) team becoming their second team. Then, if they were to continue with a third team, they would then have to reapply to gain entry to Trelawny Div 4? Would that be correct? That’s the way I see it anyway? I may/might be mistaken and there may be some other rules&regulations. Still plenty of football this season to play anyway. 

[Sijames]

Close, but their firsts and seconds have both requested to be relegated! I can't see that happening mind you.

[Martin Eddy]

If the first team take relegation then the seconds must be relegated or do you promote disbanding another team.

 

[S Abbo]

Too confusing..  good luck to whoever is sorting this out. ?

[WendronOfficial]

4 hours ago, Sijames said:

Close, but their firsts and seconds have both requested to be relegated! I can't see that happening mind you.

Surely you can’t request relegation? It would be withdrawal from the league? 

 

53 minutes ago, S Abbo said:

Too confusing..  good luck to whoever is sorting this out. ?

Too right. 

[Sijames]

After speaking to an old friend at illogan they have requested that their firsts go down to the combo, combo team down to the trelawny prem. but, this could be flawed as I am led to believe that others who currently sit below illogan in the combo also want to go down to rebuild, so they will have priority over illogan combo! 

Personally after watching trelawny prem & combo games recently there is quite a difference in the top 6-8 teams in the combo and the rest of the league, and a vast difference to trelawny teams! 

With regards to teams entering next season @B_D ( he will have to not log in to see this post as he's thrown his toys out his pram ?). I know of at least 5 'new' teams entering next season subject to the thumbs up. Two of which are existing clubs adding a team and 3 new clubs, which I don't agree with as they will be taking players away again from established clubs and probably fold when the going gets tough (mabe etc!).

[#sausagefingers]

If teams are applying to go into combo the bottom 2 should be relegated from it.we already have teams in trewlany prem not applying that would hold there own in league doing much better than the lower sides in it.

As for illogan can't expect to relegate 2 of there sides without them in relegation places.they should have to fold there swpl side and re-enter a team in trewlany 4 next season with there 1sts being classed as the combo side.

I know of one team applying to get in trewlany next season. You're gonna have to let new teams in as teams are going fold throughout season no matter what but the best situation is to scrap a league and boost the remaining ones.

Alot of teams don't seem to want to play half the time even though they know there is a massive ref shortage and ain't guaranteed one most weeks.

 

[Steve Carpenter]

Promotion arrangements between the Trelawny and Combination are very clear in both sets of rules.  If a team finishes in the promotion places and meets the ground criteria they will be promoted.

The Illogan situation is potentially very complicated and I would anticipate that early in the new year there will be some difficult and protracted discussions to decide on the way ahead for any of the many potential scenarios.  Good luck guys!

[Foot Loose 1]

• Surely if the SWPL agree that Illogan are the team to be relegated from the western division, they will automatically be placed in the Combination League. (This action by the SWPL will save the bottom club from being relegated).
• This will now mean that the Combination League will now have 2 Illogan teams in the league, and will therefore have to relegate their second team, plus the bottom team. (This will save the team in the next to bottom team)
• There second team ,plus the other relegated team, would automatically be placed in the Premier Division of the Trelawny League, making space for two Trelawny teams to be promoted.

[Mangle]

Wendron Official seems to sum this up quite nicely. I can’t see why there is any complications or confusion. Surely, surely, a team cannot request to be relegated, or choose where they want to play their football. Seems crazy to me. What’s that all about? If they have had enough, withdraw. Isn’t it just that simple?

[Steve Carpenter]

38 minutes ago, Foot Loose 1 said:

• Surely if the SWPL agree that Illogan are the team to be relegated from the western division, they will automatically be placed in the Combination League. (This action by the SWPL will save the bottom club from being relegated).
• This will now mean that the Combination League will now have 2 Illogan teams in the league, and will therefore have to relegate their second team, plus the bottom team. (This will save the team in the next to bottom team)
• There second team ,plus the other relegated team, would automatically be placed in the Premier Division of the Trelawny League, making space for two Trelawny teams to be promoted.

This would be the ideal solution BUT Illogan have appplied to withdraw.  As far as I can see (and I'm sure @John Mead will correct me if I'm wrong) there is no provision for voluntary relegation which means that Illogan would need to finish in a Peninsula West relegation spot and for there to be successful applicants to join.  This is one of a number of permutations and a lot can change between now and the season's end.  I won't be involved in the discussions on this so I'm not going to get pulled in any deeper on this, over to those who will.  Back to the packing!

[WendronOfficial]

1 hour ago, Foot Loose 1 said:

• Surely if the SWPL agree that Illogan are the team to be relegated from the western division, they will automatically be placed in the Combination League. (This action by the SWPL will save the bottom club from being relegated).
• This will now mean that the Combination League will now have 2 Illogan teams in the league, and will therefore have to relegate their second team, plus the bottom team. (This will save the team in the next to bottom team)
• There second team ,plus the other relegated team, would automatically be placed in the Premier Division of the Trelawny League, making space for two Trelawny teams to be promoted.

Application to whithdraw is different to being relegated so would therefore follow a different procedure, one would’ve thought. 

[John Mead]

My simple 'take' on the situation is as follows BUT is only my opinion!

Assuming that Illogan1st team are accepted into the Combination League, their Reserves must retire from the competition or be relegated to a lower division - at least that's my understanding of SCOR.

Further, Illogan Reserves should not have to apply for relegation from Combo because it would happen automatically if their 1st team are accepted by the Combination League as a relegated team from SWPL.

It would therefore seem logical to treat Illogan Reserves as any other relegated team and place them into Trelawny Prem.

I don't believe it should affect Illogan 3rds.

I repeat, only my opinion: I've not discussed the situation with either League - or indeed Illogan.

 

18 minutes ago, WendronOfficial said:

Application to whithdraw is different to being relegated so would therefore follow a different procedure, one would’ve thought. 

Any "different procedure" would only apply to the 1st team/Combination League situation.

[Sijames]

8 minutes ago, John Mead said:

My simple 'take' on the situation is as follows BUT is only my opinion!

Assuming that Illogan1st team are accepted into the Combination League, their Reserves must retire from the competition or be relegated to a lower division - at least that's my understanding of SCOR.

Further, Illogan Reserves should not have to apply for relegation from Combo because it would happen automatically if their 1st team are accepted by the Combination League as a relegated team from SWPL.

It would therefore seem logical to treat Illogan Reserves as any other relegated team and place them into Trelawny Prem.

I don't believe it should affect Illogan 3rds.

I repeat, only my opinion: I've not discussed the situation with either League - or indeed Illogan.

 

Any "different procedure" would only apply to the 1st team/Combination League situation.

What if....two OTHER teams than illogan finished in the bottom two and wanted to go down to trelawny premier? To rebuild let's say, world be harsh to be unfairly punished and have to stay in the league just beicase another club has opted for something in another division would it not?

[John Mead]

3 hours ago, Sijames said:

What if....two OTHER teams than illogan finished in the bottom two and wanted to go down to trelawny premier? To rebuild let's say, world be harsh to be unfairly punished and have to stay in the league just beicase another club has opted for something in another division would it not?

Combo rules would mean the second from bottom team would be "saved" from relegation if numbers would be less than 20. If that team did also wish to be relegated, technically, they would have to "resign" and take their chance that Trelawny League would accept them - meaning that the team finishing bottom would then be "saved"

I think we all need to have patience and wait to see how things pan out before speculating what will eventually happen.

 

[Mangle]

But speculation is half the fun of football isn’t it?!

I can’t see what you’ve said being the correct way though. Surely no matter what happens, if the 2 bottom teams both wished to be relegated, then there is no situation that would exist to see them relying on the Trelawny League accepting them. Whatever is decided with Illogan should not have a bearing on another teams “rights”.

[John Mead]

I only quoted the current rules regarding promotion and relegation in the Combination League - which complies with SCOR. The situation would also apply if a Combo team was promoted to SWPL and no-one relegated from above; it "saves" one club from relegation.

I agree that speculating is interesting; however, in the end rules have to be followed and anything that is not fully covered by the rules needs to be carefully considered by the relevant committees after seeking FA advice.

[Asterix]

Bring back Mining League / Fal-Helston

 

Just my opinion 

[bighairydave]

20 minutes ago, Asterix said:

Bring back Mining League / Fal-Helston

 

Just my opinion 

Will never happen. Especially with the Combo amalgamation on the way too.

[Asterix]

11 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

Will never happen. Especially with the Combo amalgamation on the way too.

Shame. Without sounding too Negative and downgrading the guys and girls who put the effort in transition, but never had all these teams pulling out etc, and standard was decent. How many more seasons will it take for the transition to work?

[bighairydave]

9 minutes ago, Asterix said:

Shame. Without sounding too Negative and downgrading the guys and girls who put the effort in transition, but never had all these teams pulling out etc, and standard was decent. How many more seasons will it take for the transition to work?

Very true, but nothing says this wouldn’t have happened anyway. All over the country 11-a-side football participation is on the decline, just like is happening on the cricket league in the county too. People have much changing priorities now unfortunately.

[stevieb]

1 hour ago, bighairydave said:

Very true, but nothing says this wouldn’t have happened anyway. All over the country 11-a-side football participation is on the decline, just like is happening on the cricket league in the county too. People have much changing priorities now unfortunately.

BHD you are right , a lot of teams from the West penwith  leagues joined the old mining league as teams were getting less and less and teams were playing each other several times in various cup games to get matches . From memory teams that made up the West Penwith / Amor shield were , Mousehole (2 ) Marazion (2)  St Buryan (2)  Sennen Ludgvan(2)  Gulval (2) Longrock (2)  Penwith social club , Penzance 3rds, Porthcurnoe exiles , St.Just , Pendeen , Rosudgeon (2)  Hayle , some short lived teams were Shirehorse, Heamoor ., At one stage Longrock had three teams one in West Penwith , Amor and mining leagues but this didn't last for long .  The above list of teams most have now folded so this is not a new  problem , the main difference was players didn't change clubs to often . 

 

[Dave Bartlam]

Falmouth/Helston & Mining League has had it's day. I'd be interested to learn how many teams/players there were involved back then.

In my opinion, Mr Hairy Dave and Stevie are correct - times have changed. Participation has decreased significantly since the ML/F&L to a point where even the Trelawny League on it's own is struggling for numbers. That's not down to location or distance etc, it's to do with changing lifestyles and the evolution of man (over a very short time period, may I add). No-one wants to train anymore, no-one can be bothered to travel a few miles, no-one is interested in sitting on the bench and earning a place in the squad... People want to just turn up, play football and go home. I'm only 30 years old but football has changed so much since even I first started playing that short time ago (compared to quite a few on here). It's a sign of the times.

It won't get any better either, that's the worrying thing. More money is required from the top to pump into grassroots football but the biggest change that is needed is society... No amount of money can change that unfortunately :|

[hedgerow]

5 hours ago, B_D said:

Falmouth/Helston & Mining League has had it's day. I'd be interested to learn how many teams/players there were involved back then.

In my opinion, Mr Hairy Dave and Stevie are correct - times have changed. Participation has decreased significantly since the ML/F&L to a point where even the Trelawny League on it's own is struggling for numbers. That's not down to location or distance etc, it's to do with changing lifestyles and the evolution of man (over a very short time period, may I add). No-one wants to train anymore, no-one can be bothered to travel a few miles, no-one is interested in sitting on the bench and earning a place in the squad... People want to just turn up, play football and go home. I'm only 30 years old but football has changed so much since even I first started playing that short time ago (compared to quite a few on here). It's a sign of the times.

It won't get any better either, that's the worrying thing. More money is required from the top to pump into grassroots football but the biggest change that is needed is society... No amount of money can change that unfortunately :|

I have agree with this post, very close to the truth. Sky and BT are playing a major part in the decline of grassroots football, followed by the FA not pumping money in at this level. This is happening nationally. It costs a lot of money to keep a team going. Before each season you are looking at approximately £1000 to cover expenses etc, not including a new kit. All players and officials want is a game of football a bit of socialising and to enjoy the game. At the moment that is not happening

And by the way

A Happy New Year

[Richard Rundle]

And if the TV companies eventually get their way and are able to televise 3pm Saturday afternoon games, the problem will get even worse.

[Martin Eddy]

Yes cornish rhino but money talks

[stevieb]

On 12/31/2017 at 11:48, stevieb said:

BHD you are right , a lot of teams from the West penwith  leagues joined the old mining league as teams were getting less and less and teams were playing each other several times in various cup games to get matches . From memory teams that made up the West Penwith / Amor shield were , Mousehole (2 ) Marazion (2)  St Buryan (2)  Sennen Ludgvan(2)  Gulval (2) Longrock (2)  Penwith social club , Penzance 3rds, Porthcurnoe exiles , St.Just , Pendeen , Rosudgeon (2)  Hayle , some short lived teams were Shirehorse, Heamoor ., At one stage Longrock had three teams one in West Penwith , Amor and mining leagues but this didn't last for long .  The above list of teams most have now folded so this is not a new  problem , the main difference was players didn't change clubs to often . 

 

Sorry forgot  Madron x2 teams .

9 hours ago, Richard Rundle said:

And if the TV companies eventually get their way and are able to televise 3pm Saturday afternoon games, the problem will get even worse.

In the not to distance future , I can see that you can pay for a televised season ticket for which ever team you support   and can watch any of their games  live  , a bit like pay per view for your favorite boxer .