El Nino Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 See the subject has been raised again on another thread. Have to ask what are the objections to clubs paying for the best they can afford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 Always has happened and always will.you will never stop it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 Doesn't bother me, just think it's stupid at this level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Paying players as always happened and always will. What makes me laugh is when clubs fork out thousands per season on giving players brown envelopes, then don’t take promotion because they can’t afford it. Some clubs paying out allow their pitches and club houses to fall into disrepair, or say they can’t afford floodlights because the FA don’t give them a grant! Stop paying players stupid amounts then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 If the clubs/managers didn’t pay players they certainly wouldn’t be spending money on floodlights! In the majority of cases the money comes from ‘sponsors’ to see the team do well. I doubt the majority of them give two hoots about the ‘legacy’ of a club by improving facilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Two Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 If Stickers twitter a/c is correct, it looks as if they had the 2nd highest ( after Plymouth Parkway v Tavistock ) crowd in the country at step 6 on Boxing Day v St Austell. Well done Parkway, Sticker, and Godolphin, all of whom were in the top ten, which included teams from Wiltshire, Durham, Leicestershire, West Yorkshire, and Tyneside. Obviously the countrywide weather conditions affected that result, but lets blow our trumpet for those who played and made the news, Parkways crowd figures in particular would stand them in good stead in any step 6 attendance figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFC Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 I have seen that Sticker had a very good turnout, obviously numbers have been increased due to cancellations elsewhere but in my eyes the fortune couldnt have happened to a better club, a lovely village club with cracking facilities, everyone i have spoken to associated with the club are always give a warm welcoming and the management staff are always trying to play the right way, sticking by loyal players rather than trying to sign nearby stars with money the club hasnt got. Delighted for all at Sticker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerninja Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Football and money now go hand in hand. If teams are investing and paying more than others with an ambition of progressing through the leagues then I see nothing wrong with that. What I do find wrong is teams paying silly amounts of money with no intention on promotion, and just seeing themselves as a big fish in a small pond. That's what is wrong with the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henning Berg Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Dare I chirp up about a couple of pretty successful sides not paying the earth for decent squads? Saltash for one - one of the best teams in the division and they certainly aren't paying the earth for their players. Launceston and Falmouth another two sides I believe not shelling out stupid cash on players and are both having excellent seasons. Granted, neither have recent SILVERWARE to brag of, but all are top sides. I take the argument from some of you above though, the top side in the division is paying out money to some players that first and second year pro's of league clubs wouldn't get near at. Parkway have said they will be taking promotion and good on them for that (finally), but I wonder how well backed they are if they have to keep paying out the levels of funds they are for players and take the step up and attribute in those costs. I'm sure they have done the maths though. I would have loved to see Tavvy take promotion this season too. I believe they have a 'healthy' budget but are wary of the added costs by rising to the Western League. A challenge for the future lets hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerninja Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Henning Berg said: I would have loved to see Tavvy take promotion this season too. I believe they have a 'healthy' budget but are wary of the added costs by rising to the Western League. A challenge for the future lets hope. If you read an interview from Henderson in the Herald recently you'll find Tavy won't go up as they pretty much rely on fans from visiting clubs to help fund the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sijames Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Ridiculous at this level, even the clubs who are geographically wayyy out the way seem to pay silly amounts yet don't take promotion. What's the point? Say they pay on average £30 a player, which is considerably lower than most do in the swpl. Probably talking £10,000 a season! Yet only get a couple of grand for winning the league etc, turn down promotion, and watch facilities decline whilst all of this is going on!!??? Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Sijames said: Ridiculous at this level, even the clubs who are geographically wayyy out the way seem to pay silly amounts yet don't take promotion. What's the point? Say they pay on average £30 a player, which is considerably lower than most do in the swpl. Probably talking £10,000 a season! Yet only get a couple of grand for winning the league etc, turn down promotion, and watch facilities decline whilst all of this is going on!!??? Madness. It’s not the clubs paying it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek martyn Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 28/12/2017 at 10:03, SCFC said: I have seen that Sticker had a very good turnout, obviously numbers have been increased due to cancellations elsewhere but in my eyes the fortune couldnt have happened to a better club, a lovely village club with cracking facilities, everyone i have spoken to associated with the club are always give a warm welcoming and the management staff are always trying to play the right way, sticking by loyal players rather than trying to sign nearby stars with money the club hasnt got. Delighted for all at Sticker! Couldn't agree more. Sticker are a great club making excellent progress in a sustainable manner, good luck to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanfare Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 How much do clubs spend on brown envelopes! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgerow Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Keith B said: Parkway have said they would take promotion before now - and didn't. That said, it is a big step financially. Best of luck to them if they do go up. I sometimes wonder if this money we keep hearing about really does get paid to players. Where does this information come from. Most treasurers are tight lipped in my experience as well as having tight purse strings. Do the players blab about getting paid ? Or are a lot of the stories regarding players getting huge payments, simply myth ? ( Who would want the tax man snooping around ! ) Parkway will take promotion to the western league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 The tax man will turn up again one day ....you've been warned. He came knocking once before ....just ask the clubs who got investigated - OUCH!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG AL Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 19 hours ago, derek martyn said: Couldn't agree more. Sticker are a great club making excellent progress in a sustainable manner, good luck to them The facilities at Sticker are superb and supporters are welcomed with a friendly smile - an excellent situation to watch a game of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hetty Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Yes you can even watch from the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattelot Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 19 hours ago, Fanfare said: How much do clubs spend on brown envelopes! ? £2.99 for 50 down trago ! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanfare Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 14 players involved in 40 league and cup games = 560 envelopes Good old Trago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, Fanfare said: 14 players involved in 40 league and cup games = 560 envelopes Good old Trago! You'd have to double that number at Falmouth and probably add a few more white ones. WHOOPS !!!! should have said Penfal - me bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft96 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 While at Tavi some 10 years ago i was getting £50 a game, Falmouth offered £70 then Tavi gave me £80 a game to stay!! Not once did i ask for these amounts but being totally honest i didn't turn it down either. Paying players is and was and will be part football at this standard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Two Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Keith B said: Rubbish - it's all a myth ! Honestly, would you pay over and above travel costs ? 1 hour ago, jft96 said: While at Tavi some 10 years ago i was getting £50 a game, Falmouth offered £70 then Tavi gave me £80 a game to stay!! Not once did i ask for these amounts but being totally honest i didn't turn it down either. Paying players is and was and will be part football at this standard!! There's your answer Keith B. It's always intrigued us to know why the inland revenue aren't interested in those transactions, as taxpayers not declaring an income is illegal, as are undeclared payments by employers, putting both club and player at risk of prosecution. The employers would in effect be the committee members of the offending club, and would be responsible for any fines imposed should the club default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Keith B said: Rubbish - it's all a myth ! Honestly, would you pay over and above travel costs ? No myth Keith, happens everywhere, a lot of times though it is given to the clubs by sponsors and the club may top it up or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Not really worth talking about. It has happened for at least the last sixty years. It will carry on, as it is impossible to police. I imagine a table of clubs total payments to players would look very similar to a league table. When I see how selfish some strikers can be, I wonder if there also are goal bonuses paid out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Two Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, Outsider said: Not really worth talking about. It has happened for at least the last sixty years. It will carry on, as it is impossible to police. I imagine a table of clubs total payments to players would look very similar to a league table. When I see how selfish some strikers can be, I wonder if there also are goal bonuses paid out. The real danger that committees seem to accept as the norm because Inland revenue have as yet failed to investigate club finances, is that if they did and found a club guilty of illegal ( in the eyes of the law ) payments, committee members could be found guilty of being accessories to an illegal act, and would have to accept the likely consequences. Ask any accountant or sub-contractor working on a site what responsibilities they have to inform H.M.R.C. of payment transactions, it's frighting. Regarding tight lipped club treasurers, accounts have to be published annually, and should be made available for public scrutiny. If anyone has any doubts about their authenticity, figures can be challenged at club A.G.M.s when a seasons balance sheet should be made available to all attendees. The fact that payments may have been paid for the last 60 years, makes it neither legal or immune to retropective justice in the eyes of the law. Our views may seem a bit O.T.T. but we only need one situation where a club is found to be acting wrongly in regard to payments made to players, and a whole can of worms will be opened for all concerned. One point that must be stated, is that clubs who pay players and include those payments in the correct format in their accounts, have nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin richards Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 31 minutes ago, We Two said: The real danger that committees seem to accept as the norm because Inland revenue have as yet failed to investigate club finances, is that if they did and found a club guilty of illegal ( in the eyes of the law ) payments, committee members could be found guilty of being accessories to an illegal act, and would have to accept the likely consequences. Ask any accountant or sub-contractor working on a site what responsibilities they have to inform H.M.R.C. of payment transactions, it's frighting. Regarding tight lipped club treasurers, accounts have to be published annually, and should be made available for public scrutiny. If anyone has any doubts about their authenticity, figures can be challenged at club A.G.M.s when a seasons balance sheet should be made available to all attendees. The fact that payments may have been paid for the last 60 years, makes it neither legal or immune to retropective justice in the eyes of the law. Our views may seem a bit O.T.T. but we only need one situation where a club is found to be acting wrongly in regard to payments made to players, and a whole can of worms will be opened for all concerned. One point that must be stated, is that clubs who pay players and include those payments in the correct format in their accounts, have nothing to worry about. Are you kidding ? Speak to anyone involved at Porthleven or St Blazey about the tax man. Both clubs probably still paying him after being investigated some years ago. They have looked at player payments in Cornish football, & they will look again. Any clubs paying players, make sure your doing it through the books, if not, you may find yourselves being fined a considerable amount of money, much more than it’s costing you to put your teams on the pitch. Can any of you afford that.!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieb Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 12 hours ago, Keith B said: Rubbish - it's all a myth ! Honestly, would you pay over and above travel costs ? Sorry Keith but it does go on , recently a team played against Hayle and after the game there were envelopes left in the changing room , have that from a very reliable source . Several seasons back an away fixture in the senior cup , my mate saw several opposition players being given envelopes in the club house , having had a few sips of ale , he tapped one of them on the shoulder and asked what was in the envelope he replied what was it to him , he replied he worked for the inland revenue ( he didn't ) and had he declare it , quickly he moved over to the other players and they all looked pretty worried and kept glancing over to my mate , who was by this time p.....ng himself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Two Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 28 minutes ago, kevin richards said: Are you kidding ? Speak to anyone involved at Porthleven or St Blazey about the tax man. Both clubs probably still paying him after being investigated some years ago. They have looked at player payments in Cornish football, & they will look again. Any clubs paying players, make sure your doing it through the books, if not, you may find yourselves being fined a considerable amount of money, much more than it’s costing you to put your teams on the pitch. Can any of you afford that.!!! No not kidding, exactly the point that was being made, just reminding clubs and their committee members, the risk they take if payments are not made above board, and offering those who accuse clubs of paying exhorbitant match fees the way to find out if they do and if so how much !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, stevieb said: Sorry Keith but it does go on , recently a team played against Hayle and after the game there were envelopes left in the changing room , have that from a very reliable source . Several seasons back an away fixture in the senior cup , my mate saw several opposition players being given envelopes in the club house , having had a few sips of ale , he tapped one of them on the shoulder and asked what was in the envelope he replied what was it to him , he replied he worked for the inland revenue ( he didn't ) and had he declare it , quickly he moved over to the other players and they all looked pretty worried and kept glancing over to my mate , who was by this time p.....ng himself . Carharrack don't pay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieb Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, Alf said: Carharrack don't pay! Haven't mentioned any team or how recent or insinuated which clubs were involved . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 It is the clubs responsibility to deduct tax at source, if they do not then the club is liable for the tax owed. If when questioned they dispute the amount in question they are given the chance to produce supporting paperwork / evidence. If that is found to be false or not acceptable the sum owed is doubled and a fine of £5000 added....or that is what it was a few years ago. They then are given the chance to enter into a payment plan, default on that and you probably would end up being shut down, and your assets being sold to make the payment. A few clubs have fallen foul on this and have lost their club, and in some cases further down the line their ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Eddy Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Sorry Stevieb I told the boys to take home their envelopes on saturday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 What happens if it is outside “sponsors” who are paying the players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 48 minutes ago, bighairydave said: What happens if it is outside “sponsors” who are paying the players? Makes no difference, the club pays the money - they are liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Just now, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said: Makes no difference, the club pays the money - they are liable. Even if no one from the club touches the money and the envelopes are given to players in the bar by the sponsor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, bighairydave said: Even if no one from the club touches the money and the envelopes are given to players in the bar by the sponsor? That's a different scenario, whoever directly pays the money is liable. I know that that does happen - rarely.... but 99% of the time it is through the club so the sponsor can claim tax relief against the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Two Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 A club is administered by the committees involved, and it would be the committee members who in the first place would be responsible for explaining the finances of the club, ie how the balance sheet figures were arrived at. My question is, do committee members realise the resposibilities they have, and the potential consequences if H.M.R.C. can prove them guilty of making illicit payments that are unrecorded on the balance sheets. We would hazard a guess that it could make quite a dent in your finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Two Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Keith B said: Surely most clubs would be paying an accountant to handle their finances. That said, each Committee member is accountable if the club falls into dept or, is found guilty of any illegal goings on. All football clubs run by a Committee, should make sure that their Committee members are aware of their legal obligations. Accountants will only react to the information they are given, false information means false accounts. Accountants will also ask club treasurers to sign a document stating that the information given is a true reflection of the years financial affairs, which in effect will remove them from any acts of colusion. They stand to lose their livelyhood if found guilty of misrepresentation for financial gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger1000 Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I still can’t get my head around why you would leave any evidence of payments ie envelopes in a changing room....bizarre when you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerkid Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 It may have been Xmas cards in the envelopes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Nino Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Envelopes could very well contain legal, non taxable expense money. Of themselves they are no indication of improper behaviour. Non taxable amounts can be claimed for travel to/from both training and matches, kit and boot allowances, kit cleaning expenses and other expenses relevant to their playing for the love of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Two Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 42 minutes ago, El Nino said: expenses relevant to their playing for the love of the game. Don't think the £80 a game a Tavistock player says he was getting would qualify for the above remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druth1966 Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 50 minutes ago, We Two said: Don't think the £80 a game a Tavistock player says he was getting would qualify for the above remark. Thats a matter for Devon. Nowt to do with Cornwall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Two Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 The laws of the realm regarding paying taxes on earnings are the same throughout the country, Cornwall is not exempt !!!! No one should deride clubs who can afford to, for paying players , providing of course it's done above board and not putting the existence of a club in jeopardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 What happens when a players travel in the same car. Does only the driver get expenses? The driver's car would probably need to be insured for business purposes too. The truth is, the money paid is not expenses, but an enticement to play for a particular club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 A certain amount of legitimate expenses is allowed, but would have to be justified by actual facts and paperwork. They will only tolerate so much before they throw the book at you. But if you record everything correctly you will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockey jackson Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Some clubs pay monthly and some even pay into bank accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 22 hours ago, stevieb said: Haven't mentioned any team or how recent or insinuated which clubs were involved . You said recently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerninja Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 15 hours ago, Outsider said: The driver's car would probably need to be insured for business purposes too You only have to insure your car for business if you use it for work, not commuting to work whether that's covered or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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