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Dave Deacon

Trelawny League - Saturday November 11th 2017

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If your game goes ahead today, please post your result, goalscorers and post-match comments - this is the Results thread for Saturday November 11th 2017 fixtures that survive the weather!

PREMIER DIVISION

Halsetown         1-2           Camborne School of Mines

St Day Reserves          P-P         Mawnan

St Keverne      1-1          Troon AFC

Stithians          1-3             St Buryan

Wendron United Reserves        2-4             Lizard Argyle

 

DIVISION 1

Mawnan Reserves        12-1        Newlyn Non-Athletico

Mousehole Reserves    2-0           Hayle Reserves

Penwith Exiles   3-0           RNAS Culdrose Reserves

Perranporth Reserves   1-2          Lanner

Rosudgeon      3-1           Constantine

 

DIVISION 2

Four Lanes      P-P            Storm

Gwinear Churchtown    3-4          Probus

Illogan RBL 3rds            3-4           Frogpool & Cusgarne

Wendron United 3rds     3-1           Falmouth Town

 

DIVISION 3

Holman SC Reserves     P-P         Carharrack Reserves

Newlyn Non-Athletico Reserves     3-5          St Erme

St Agnes 3rds    3-7          Rosudgeon Reserves

St Just Reserves        2-0           St Buryan Reserves

 

DIVISION 4

Constantine Reserves   P-P          Mousehole 3rds

Hayle 3rds       P-P           Madron

Lizard Argyle Reserves  4-1        Penzance Reserves

Perranwell Reserves   8-2            Troon AFC Reserves

Praze-an-Beeble      4-0              Wendron United 4ths

Probus Reserves         P-P         Stithians Reserves

 

PERCY STEPHENS CUP

Falmouth DC     3-2        Mullion Reserves (aet)

Penryn Athletic Reserves         P-P          Newlyn Lions

Redruth United Reserves       P-P             Helston Athletic 3rds

Ruan Minor     P-P          Goonhavern Athletic Reserves

St Agnes Reserves       1-4      New Inn Titans

Trispen            P-P             Threemilestone

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Trispen v TMS no ref yet either.

should these games not be fixtured if no ref? Nothing worse than expecting to play and no ref so no game.

think most people would sooner know a week before, rather than being told at 11am that the game is off.

not an ideal situation waiting till day of game!

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I agree, cancel early and allow players to know we have no Game, rather than hold on til the last minute knowing fully well it's going to take cancellations to get a ref and with 3-4 games waiting for a ref it' going to take that many cancellations to stand a chance 

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That is not always the case, sometimes refs become available who previously made themselves unavailable.

Clubs can’t be that bothered about getting no referees on game day... I put a status on the Trelawny Facebook page over a week ago with the details about the upcoming Referees Course at Wendron (I’ve even added a brand new Nike match ball as a prize for people that shared it)... it got shared 25 times... 25 from over 2,700 individual views.

We can only do so much to get you guys Referees, just like we can only do so much to get players playing for you... we need a little help along the way.

It is crap, it is unfortunate but we do have a shortage of referees :/ 

Anyone who is interested in taking the course, please click here http://po.st/3qnEWr 

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And there you have it players / clubs it is in your own hands either give up a few hours to take the course or volunteer to give up your game and take the whistle so your team mates can play or another option come on the forum and bemoan the fact there isn't enough refs and deny it your problem and expect someone else to go out of their way to sort it out . BD how many have applied to take up the Refs course ? 

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7 minutes ago, stevieb said:

And there you have it players / clubs it is in your own hands either give up a few hours to take the course or volunteer to give up your game and take the whistle so your team mates can play or another option come on the forum and bemoan the fact there isn't enough refs and deny it your problem and expect someone else to go out of their way to sort it out . BD how many have applied to take up the Refs course ? 

2 enquirers for the course at Wendron.

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Completely missed the point  I made.

no one is moaning about lack of refs or their quality, all clubs are asking is earlier notification if no ref.

if no ref by a Thursday evening then call the game off and reschedule, so give every the chance to organise their lives

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2 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

2 enquirers for the course at Wendron.

Thanks for the response BHD  , Now over to the clubs and players time to stop sitting on your hands and act other wise you won't just be losing teams you will not be fulfilling your fixtures ,. Don't expect others to help out do it yourselves  or if you can't be bothered stop coming on the forum and moaning .

3 minutes ago, Fish said:

Completely missed the point  I made.

no one is moaning about lack of refs or their quality, all clubs are asking is earlier notification if no ref.

if no ref by a Thursday evening then call the game off and reschedule, so give every the chance to organise their lives

Times have changed as back in the day when I played you would wait to as late as possible to call games off , and no mobile phones either ,  and a lot more clubs around as well  . Saturdays was football  I know a pain for self employed or swapping shifts  but where do you  start calling games off surely you want to play ?   Can't you sort out someone from the teams involved to step in ?  .

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1 hour ago, B_D said:

That is not always the case, sometimes refs become available who previously made themselves unavailable.

Clubs can’t be that bothered about getting no referees on game day... I put a status on the Trelawny Facebook page over a week ago with the details about the upcoming Referees Course at Wendron (I’ve even added a brand new Nike match ball as a prize for people that shared it)... it got shared 25 times... 25 from over 2,700 individual views.

We can only do so much to get you guys Referees, just like we can only do so much to get players playing for you... we need a little help along the way.

It is crap, it is unfortunate but we do have a shortage of referees :/ 

Anyone who is interested in taking the course, please click here http://po.st/3qnEWr 

I'd love to do the ref course but why have it on the same day as a game. As a manager I don't want to miss a game as I'm committed to my team. If it was put on over a few evenings or a couple of Sundays you would have more interest in my opinion.

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Great point, someone high up obviously thought it was the best day to encourage players or managers to do a course and leave their team short and also charge £100......

Also don' we pay a referee fee beginning of year and a annual fee to league for organised league with qualified refs for games?????

Just stating facts.....

Off to bed now and then I will waste a morning telling all the players not to make plans all morning on the off chance a ref becomes avaliable......

I have asked Probus do they have a person in club  to ref and they haven't neither have Gwinear, but then again we have entered a fully authorised FA league, paid fees to enter a league and also paid a referee fee, but it' our responsibiliy to find a ref.......

Break away league I hear everyone saying where you don't pay to be a member, don't pay to sign on playing and all that money saved we will pay the referees a better fee each game to ensure they see a benefit in staying in the game and not at home........

Again just a thought .....

Should create some great responses to read in morning whilst killing time til 11 whilst waiting for a miracle ref to appear ha ha ha ha 

Right go on the oldies let rip........

Also I want to say I love the trelawney league and some committe members, who are trying to improve the Cornish football but unforunately I think some people need to realise that in some cases the league are letting us down with lack of refs, so I leave you with a thought.......... how many people are unemployed in Cornwall....why not take the key out, open the treasure chest you have with all the gold in, do an incentive for unemployed people that you commit to paying their course fee and buy their ref kit, which helps out the unemployed people in Cornwall and get the referees we as paying member of your league should get every week....

This is a member league, we pay fees so let me put it this way, would you pay a fee to sky or Netflix but every month you can' use their service for a weekend????

Night night 

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15 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Have to admit I did wonder why the course starts on a Saturday!

 

32 minutes ago, Gingster said:

I'd love to do the ref course but why have it on the same day as a game. As a manager I don't want to miss a game as I'm committed to my team. If it was put on over a few evenings or a couple of Sundays you would have more interest in my opinion.

The course runs best when run over two days. 

 

We we have tried to run evening courses with a similar uptake so are in a no-win situation.

 

There will be plans for another course in the close season, perhaps let the new RWO Stuart Kane that you are interested in doing the course in the summer.

3 minutes ago, Portreathlegend said:

Great point, someone high up obviously thought it was the best day to encourage players or managers to do a course and leave their team short and also charge £100......

Also don' we pay a referee fee beginning of year and a annual fee to league for organised league with qualified refs for games?????

Just stating facts.....

Off to bed now and then I will waste a morning telling all the players not to make plans all morning on the off chance a ref becomes avaliable......

I have asked Probus do they have a person in club  to ref and they haven't neither have Gwinear, but then again we have entered a fully authorised FA league, paid fees to enter a league and also paid a referee fee, but it' our responsibiliy to find a ref.......

Break away league I hear everyone saying where you don't pay to be a member, don't pay to sign on playing and all that money saved we will pay the referees a better fee each game to ensure they see a benefit in staying in the game and not at home........

Again just a thought .....

Should create some great responses to read in morning whilst killing time til 11 whilst waiting for a miracle ref to appear ha ha ha ha 

Right go on the oldies let rip........

Also I want to say I love the trelawney league and some committe members, who are trying to improve the Cornish football but unforunately I think some people need to realise that in some cases the league are letting us down with lack of refs, so I leave you with a thought.......... how many people are unemployed in Cornwall....why not take the key out, open the treasure chest you have with all the gold in, do an incentive for unemployed people that you commit to paying their course fee and buy their ref kit, which helps out the unemployed people in Cornwall and get the referees we as paying member of your league should get every week....

This is a member league, we pay fees so let me put it this way, would you pay a fee to sky or Netflix but every month you can' use their service for a weekend????

Night night 

They have tried incentives with no more take up. This included kit too!

 

Until attitudes towards referees changes you won’t get people taking up the whistle.

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Bundi,

The league have absolutely no say nor jurisdiction over the referees in Cornwall. You say that the club's are being let down with the unavailability of referees, so are the league. Each team pays £30 for referee appointments.. that's £1980 that we receive from the club's... Yet the actual cost of referee appointments to the league is in fact just under £5k! 

We do not allocate referees and have absolutely no say in who goes where and does what... That's the Job of the Cornwall FA. When you guys don't get a referee, you call the game off. That leads to a fixture pile up and more work behind the scenes than I think you realise, so trust me when I say that we want to be in the position where we can get referees allocated to games. We've lost many games in seasons past because teams called off when they wanted, only for referees to become available a few hours before kick off.

Instead of having a rant on here about the league (even though it has absolutely nothing to do with us), why not talk to us directly and offer some tips or suggestions if you have them? 

You submitted a rule change last week and it did get discussed at length at our meeting on Wednesday. We do listen

The FA have tried midweek courses, they've tried supplying kit etc but there is never the correct balance for everyone. What you don't realise is that the referee department at the FA is pretty much self-funding. That £100 that the FA charge goes straight back to the referee department - it pays for expenses, observers etc for these newly qualified referees.

We will give the Trelawny refs £50 after ten games... They will make the other £50 back in two games, three at max. Kit can be expensive if buying the decent stuff brand new, or more money can be saved by using eBay.

If we please one person, there's always going to be another who isn't satisfied. There's no way to win.

Trust me when I say though that we are doing the best we can to combat these areas - lack of referees and players etc. You just need to look at the Referee incentives that we offer, the Flexi league and all the other bits and bobs we do. 

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Portreathlegend I disagree with some of your comments. 

I have recently qualified and am in my first season as a ref. I can’t speak on other people behalf but I don’t do it for money, I do it to be involved in football. I’ve spoken to a few people who used to referee and they have given it up because of the attitude and abuse from players. I believe the fa are trying to improve this with the sin bin trial but this will take time for attitude and behaviours to change. I hope if they do some refs might come out of the woodwork to ref again but who knows...

i don’t think you can blame the league for the lack of refs. At the end of the day if someone wants to be a referee my understanding is it is free if referred through a club. 

For anyone thinking of becoming a referee I would say go for it! I’ve given it a chance and for the most part enjoy it.

Tom

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Dave your doing a great job buddy, but I feel targeting players of clubs or club officials to become referees is never going to happen. Players want to play and if you they turn up on a Saturday they wont ref so there mates can play.

Also you turn up with 13 players, turn up and one of your players have got to ref, you now have 1 sub......or can you name the ref as a sub????? But then what happens if the ref then needs to play half way through....who will ref then 

The sin bin.......what I can only describe as a complete waste of time......the player at our club have never been sin binned, because they don' gob off at refs...but I have been involved in 3-4 games already this season, particularly last week where several players and were shouting at the ref and calling him a useless blah blah blah and he just smiled at them and carried on, this happened at lease twice by same player, nothing.

Unfortunately if all refs don' adopt a tough stance on the rules then players wont change or they start to recognise the refs who they can get away with it.

Dave won' mind me saying........first season in a ref shirt he got so much abuse for dishing out cards......now any team that get allocated Dave know that if you gob off your get booked, surprise surprise on the pitch Dave probably very rarely gets any trouble from dissent.

Sometimes a ref will need to help themselves rather than just say players abuse refs.....why walk away from the game when they have the power, probably too worried about upsetting mates and friends by putting them in the sin bin.

Please take me serious with my comments about refs as I myself was booked several times a season or sent off through dissent, now not a single one......

Trust me, it' down to referees to grow a pair and stamp down on the abuse, the FA and league have adopted a very good policy to protect them but a percentage just allow it to still happen............

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15 minutes ago, B Manning said:

Portreathlegend, I actually have a very nice pair, but using them as requested by your goodself gets you nowhere all you can get is grief ,upset the poor little darlings and it’s you the crap sticks to.

That makes it sound as if you’re intimidated and don’t do anything about it!

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That's the issue, officials like mr manning are more worried about their club marks than anything else nowadays! Change that system and you'd see the laws implemented much more!!

its funny to see that teams in the lower leagues actually have officials appointed for today's games over teams in higher leagues, how on earth does that work like that, ridiculous?!

'bundi', from what I gather you've had as many clubs as BD so although this topic is completely different one you have already a tarnished reputation when it comes to loyalty to a club, so to then have an opinion on what the men in black should be doing as they're paid to do so or the league are is just extremely naive of you to think anyone will listen to what you have to say. 

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16 minutes ago, Sijames said:

That's the issue, officials like mr manning are more worried about their club marks than anything else nowadays! Change that system and you'd see the laws implemented much more!!

its funny to see that teams in the lower leagues actually have officials appointed for today's games over teams in higher leagues, how on earth does that work like that, ridiculous?!

'bundi', from what I gather you've had as many clubs as BD so although this topic is completely different one you have already a tarnished reputation when it comes to loyalty to a club, so to then have an opinion on what the men in black should be doing as they're paid to do so or the league are is just extremely naive of you to think anyone will listen to what you have to say. 

That's because there is no order of precedence between each league, so if a referee pulls out of a Trelawny league game in say the Premier division, there is no protocol to swap a referee from the lower division. Unlike if Combination League/SWPL has a referee pull out as they are the next step up the ladder so are higher up the order of precedence (although the 4 day rule is in place so technically the Trelawny league can refuse to release a referee if the change is Tuesday or beyond for a Saturday game).

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22 minutes ago, Sijames said:

 

its funny to see that teams in the lower leagues actually have officials appointed for today's games over teams in higher leagues, how on earth does that work like that, ridiculous?!

Why shouldn't they though, all clubs pay the same for ref fees, what do you suggest that teams in the lower leagues don't pay as much for refs as the top teams???

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25 minutes ago, jolzy10 said:

Why shouldn't they though, all clubs pay the same for ref fees, what do you suggest that teams in the lower leagues don't pay as much for refs as the top teams???

No I am suggesting that part of the incentive to get to the top, and stay (not fold!) should be that you get priority for match officials, simple!

bighairydave when the combination becomes part of the trelawny league next or the following season will there be a gap in steps in Cornwall then? As you'll be losing that league? What step is combination currently and trelawny for info? 

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1 hour ago, Portreathlegend said:

1. Dave your doing a great job buddy, but I feel targeting players of clubs or club officials to become referees is never going to happen. Players want to play and if you they turn up on a Saturday they wont ref so there mates can play.

2. Also you turn up with 13 players, turn up and one of your players have got to ref, you now have 1 sub......or can you name the ref as a sub????? But then what happens if the ref then needs to play half way through....who will ref then 

3. The sin bin.......what I can only describe as a complete waste of time......the player at our club have never been sin binned, because they don' gob off at refs...but I have been involved in 3-4 games already this season, particularly last week where several players and were shouting at the ref and calling him a useless blah blah blah and he just smiled at them and carried on, this happened at lease twice by same player, nothing.

4. Unfortunately if all refs don' adopt a tough stance on the rules then players wont change or they start to recognise the refs who they can get away with it.

5. Dave won' mind me saying........first season in a ref shirt he got so much abuse for dishing out cards......now any team that get allocated Dave know that if you gob off your get booked, surprise surprise on the pitch Dave probably very rarely gets any trouble from dissent.

6. Sometimes a ref will need to help themselves rather than just say players abuse refs.....why walk away from the game when they have the power, probably too worried about upsetting mates and friends by putting them in the sin bin.

7. Please take me serious with my comments about refs as I myself was booked several times a season or sent off through dissent, now not a single one......

8. Trust me, it' down to referees to grow a pair and stamp down on the abuse, the FA and league have adopted a very good policy to protect them but a percentage just allow it to still happen............

I think it's easier to respond to this one by paraphrasing.

1. We've had a few club officials and players take the course and they've been doing it ever since (like myself). We've also had club volunteers who have taken the course (and are going to take the course) who will step up and referee when they haven't got a game (Tempo for example), so it does work.

2. There is nothing wrong with doing a half each between the teams. Although it's not common practice, you can name a ref as a sub - I've reffed games in the first half and then played in the second before. Both teams worked together and done a good job.

3. I have stats which show the effect that the Temporary Dismissal has had. I can not comment on the actual statistics yet but the sin bin is being taken positively. I can't really comment as I have only reffed one Trelawny game (I used it once) but the refs who officiate mostly in the League are almost all in favour of it and feel that it has had a positive effect - I am also of that opinion. It has certainly had a deterring effect, which is what it's all about. It should also be noted that teams have been leading games before losing a player to the TD, they've then gone on to lose the game. What more of a deterrent do you want than that? Imagine the feelings in the dressing room because one player has cost you a loss because he couldn't keep his mouth shut?

4 & 5 - You set your stance. I can not stand people gobbing off at me or anyone else on that field. So I deal with it. I have a very low tolerance level for dissent and abusive language and behaviour - people soon learn that and adapt to it. We all have our own individual styles - for example more players will get away with a clumsy tackle with me than other they would with other referees. But then, people will find themselves in the book quicker with me for gobbing off than others, its the way it is.

 

13 minutes ago, Sijames said:

No I am suggesting that part of the incentive to get to the top, and stay (not fold!) should be that you get priority for match officials, simple!

bighairydave when the combination becomes part of the trelawny league next or the following season will there be a gap in steps in Cornwall then? As you'll be losing that league? What step is combination currently and trelawny for info? 

It won't happen. All teams in the Trelawny League pay the same amount for the Referee Appointments. Paul Murphy will go out of his way to ensure that all teams without refs are different each week. You have to remember though that some referees are pulled off games by the League and the FA aswell which is why some gaps appear. Primarily that happens because clubs fail to confirm with the officials/opposition.

SWPL Prem is step 10, SWPL East and West are step 11. That's as far as the steps go. Everything below this is classed as recreational football. The Combination Leagues has no standing on the pyramid system, just like the Trelawny League. However, the Combo is classed locally as "senior" because it is used as a bridge between Trelawny and SWPL, there are also certain criteria that has to be met - kinda like a stepping stone.

I leave for my deployment today so unfortunately I'm unavailable to attend the meeting between the Leagues (to talk about the possible amalgamation). Nothing is set in stone yet and the talks are being held at this stage purely to get opinions and ideas from the Leagues (ECPL/Duchy and Combo/Trelawny)

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21 minutes ago, Sijames said:

No I am suggesting that part of the incentive to get to the top, and stay (not fold!) should be that you get priority for match officials, simple!

bighairydave when the combination becomes part of the trelawny league next or the following season will there be a gap in steps in Cornwall then? As you'll be losing that league? What step is combination currently and trelawny for info? 

I would imagine things may change, or part of the negotiation will be that the priority will still be for that division to have referees first.

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20 minutes ago, Sijames said:

No I am suggesting that part of the incentive to get to the top, and stay (not fold!) should be that you get priority for match officials, simple!

 

Fair point and I get that but us at St Erme have been going for 6 years now without issue and Div 3 is a tough league and each year it gets tougher to get out of it and so your suggestion would be that being in Div 3 and 4 means we'd hardly get a ref because we're at a lower level than Prem, Div 1 and Div 2 and in turn punishing us even though we pay the same as the other teams!

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BD just stated the combination has no real (not local!) higher status, therefore how many weeks do you see that one of their games has no official and trelawny league games do? NEVER!!!!!!! So why the difference? If you do it for them yet they are no real step higher why doesn't it follow suit down the leagues in order of standard which is exactly what is happening with them?

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2 minutes ago, Sijames said:

BD just stated the combination has no real (not local!) higher status, therefore how many weeks do you see that one of their games has no official and trelawny league games do? NEVER!!!!!!! So why the difference? If you do it for them yet they are no real step higher why doesn't it follow suit down the leagues in order of standard which is exactly what is happening with them?

That's not what I've said: " However, the Combo is classed locally as "senior" " - This is why they get the referees allocated first. They have a higher standing than Trelawny in Cornish football - but not in the National Pyramid System. You've misunderstood what I've said.

The Combination League has gone without referees in the past because a referee has been pulled out - Paul will not pull one off a Trelawny game to allocate to Combination. The only time I'd imagine he'd do this is if there was an important game that had to go ahead.

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Yet again a feed has turned in to a chance to slate refs etc. This post is supposed to be about cancelled/postponed games and the results of the games that go ahead. I offered previously to do the course but being the only goalkeeper we have I wasn't a viable option really. So until we have enough able volunteers we will ji have to put up with the shortage 

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as a tutor of referees we try to run courses in closed season this didn't happen this year due to rdo/ developments so we are trying to catch up if a midweek evening course is required then I'm sure it could be arranged but we need the interest  

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