Jump to content
Cornwall Football Forum

Cornish Batman


Recommended Posts

It's becoming very  clear that whatever game you watch in any part of the County, the Match Officials are the main topic of conversation after the match. For several seasons I've watched matches all over the county between different teams yet so many of them have been spoiled by poor refereeing standards. Assistant Referee's (think that's a false title - watch them look at the Referee every time the ball leaves the field and then put their flags up agreeing with the way he is pointing!!) are equally as bad. I appreciate that it is not easy these days to officiate at matches, but they do themselves no good whatsoever with many of the crazy decisions they make. When you realize that all the clubs in Cornwall work damn hard to keep their clubs alive and going in the hope that spectators will see 90 minutes of entertaining football, but in many cases this is not happening. Over the past few seasons Refereeing in the Carlsberg South West Premier League in particular I believe has sunk to an all-time low. When will someone take a grip on what is happening. By this I mean both Ref's improving and sterner action and punishment against players arguing with the Ref's. I would love to see some of these assessment reports that are carried out on Referee's. Are they really telling the truth or just papering over the cracks that are there? In closing I would say that the standard of Refereeing I saw at two games I attended at Truro last season in the National Southern was excellent. Fingers crossed we may one day see an improvement. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More yellow cards perhaps not the answer. That again only causes instant friction between officials and players.  How many times do you see cards being waved for the first heavy tackle made - very few final warnings given these days. More sensible approach and better understanding of the game by the  Officials - heavier action from Cornwall FA on those players showing disrespect to Officials might start  to get things back on track. Even players at time exaggerating contact should be warned. Officials, FA and Clubs should sit down and work out a programme towards improvement on this subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cornish Batman said:

heavier action from Cornwall FA on those players showing disrespect to Officials might start  to get things back on track.

Are you suggesting County FA representatives should be at all SWPL games? Surely they would have to be present to be able to start giving out punishments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Giving out heavier punishments to persistent offenders when they appear in front of the discipline panel. If they instruct Refs to hand out cards for any confrontational behaviour and dissent and they punished accordingly it might begin to stem the problem. Refs are confronted at all games by players on the least serious incidents. I'm not a rugby man but the games I've seen you never get any incidents with Refs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

And you have refereed ......or are an active referee (?)

Older, yes I have refereed and assessed. I too would like to see the reports written by the assessors this season at games where I have been very close to them, ie we have had the same view of the game and its incidents. Cornish Batman, you are spot on, the standard of some referees and some of their assistants has become totally unsatisfactory and in the games that I have witnessed it hasn't even come to the dealing of abusive language etc, more their fitness, being up with play and the general basics of their understanding of the laws and correct decision making together with their assistants. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, unclebuckthebaker said:

Older, yes I have refereed and assessed. I too would like to see the reports written by the assessors this season at games where I have been very close to them, ie we have had the same view of the game and its incidents. Cornish Batman, you are spot on, the standard of some referees and some of their assistants has become totally unsatisfactory and in the games that I have witnessed it hasn't even come to the dealing of abusive language etc, more their fitness, being up with play and the general basics of their understanding of the laws and correct decision making together with their assistants. 

Spot on with your views. I've spoken to many on this subject and they all agree. Nobody ever seems to take the problem seriously as our games are losing their true value and significance. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, B Manning said:

Cornish batman / unbuckle the whatever, if you are so concerned especially you unbuckle with your experience why do you not write into the County FA explaining your thoughts on where improvements are needed, but I bet you won't.

Mr Manning, [nice guy] We know each other well. My statement came from years of experience but for serious health reasons I will not be getting involved in further discussion on here and certainly not with the FA and believe me my old mate if you knew who I was you would totally understand why. I watch my football these days purely from a spectators viewpoint but experience / knowledge is still bound to come into play a tad. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

The County FA held a "Behaviour" meeting at the end of the season before last. Was there any follow up?

The criticism seems to be pointed towards the referees, but I don't think they have really got any worse, it could be that there is far more gamesmanship being applied from the players!

Would not know he answer to the FA Behaviour meetings Mr Deacon and yes in a couple of the games I have seen this season the gamesmanship/continual whinging has been disgusting. Is that partly caused though by the man in the middle covering  not an awful lot more than 'centre circle' duties, and even that at shall we say a very sedate pace hence very rarely to be seen where he should have been to make important decisions. In my day 'keeping up with play' was always towards the top of the agenda during match duties. That is very important but certainly not the only problem, consistency and a good relationship with some assistants has not been acceptable this season. All officials obviously do not come into the 'lacking' category and last season I witnessed some really good performances, a couple that have now been promoted  readily spring to mind, [unfortunately the SWPL will not see a lot of them now], lets hope that this season improves. Fingers crossed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Players have taken to diving, conning the referee, and just basically looking to get every advantage they can. Referees also make mistakes, they are mostly human. It can't be an easy job having 22 players trying to con you, managers, and every Tom, ****, Waterboy and Kitman screaming at you every time make a decision. Then there is the crowd who also get on your back at every opportunity. 

There isn't a game that goes by where the players don't make mistakes. To quote some author "let he who be without sin, chuck the first brick" or some such thing. Personally, I think anybody who yells at the referee should get an instant trip to the sin bin, and a fine. That would sort the attitude out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Bodmin Town v Tavistock Town was a perfect example of the behaviour to match officials.

From start to finish, there was continual barracking of the Referee from the Bodmin Town players, not all of them, but several of them. Jake Ash being the biggest culprit. I do not think I have witnessed a bigger whinger than Jake Ash!!

Whilst the Referee didn't have a perfect game, it wasn't helped by the barracking.

Incidentally, the behaviour of the benches was impeccable, I wonder why?

 

High time football in general rose to the standards of rugby and ceased this thuggish behaviour to officials. No back-chat, no swearing, just accept the decisions made. Referees make mistakes, just the same as players.  Lukaku, who cost Manchester United £75,000,000 missed a penalty on Saturday, what if the Referee swore at him?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Monsoon said:

Just out of interest,is there a fitness test for linesmen ? I find it utterly bizaare that an out of shape unfit linesman that is constantly 30 yards behind play is able to give an offside decision.

What level are you talking about? Cuz if it's at peninsula prem then they are all qualified referees anyway, hence they take a fitness test, surely?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, The Boy said:

That means no then

No I have not been a referee ......who the hell would want to be with all the crap that comes out today (!)

You can come on here and be as nice as pie about how poor the reffing standards are today, but, it is no different to shouting and bawling at the ref on a match day.

This is a mickey mouse standard of football, the referees do the best they can, and give what they see, and how they  see it, and the sooner peeps just get on with watching, and keep their gobs shut the better it will be for all the others who watch football.

The poor old ref comes into the clubhouse after a game, nobody talks to him anymore, he sits all on his own after taking a load of tripe from everyone all afternoon ....what the hell do you think he feels like driving home ....they are human beings with feelings the same as us.

Their treatment is a disgrace to all of those who watch and participate in football.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/28/2017 at 10:49, Monsoon said:

Just out of interest,is there a fitness test for linesmen ? I find it utterly bizaare that an out of shape unfit linesman that is constantly 30 yards behind play is able to give an offside decision.

although you were referring to the prem, there is certainly no fitness test for the West/East division linesman's (having recently taken the test myself), it was a total shambles and everybody passed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What word fronts the FA signage everywhere you see it? - RESPECT - yet the FA seem to do very little on a national scale to bring this about. In my opinion unless 'Respect' is instigated from the very top and forced to travel down through to the roots of footballarrow-10x10.png, then it is never going to happen. New instructions regarding players contact with Refs and the like should be heavily pursued over a season and then analyse the results.  I agree that being a Referee is certainly not an easy task these days, and they are far to easily and readily abused by players and fans, but to my eyes it appears nobody, at local level especially, is grabbing this problem by the tail and pulling it back.  Unless the problem is addressed soon it might become the ruination of West Country footballarrow-10x10.png - something that no genuine football follower would wish to see.  Surely the Referees Association should be saying to Cornwall FA - 'Enough is enough' and the two of them get together with representatives from all leagues and draw up a new (for the want of a  title)  'master' plan to at the very least attempt to reduce the problem?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Cornish Batman said:

What word fronts the FA signage everywhere you see it? - RESPECT - yet the FA seem to do very little on a national scale to bring this about. In my opinion unless 'Respect' is instigated from the very top and forced to travel down through to the roots of footballarrow-10x10.png, then it is never going to happen. New instructions regarding players contact with Refs and the like should be heavily pursued over a season and then analyse the results.  I agree that being a Referee is certainly not an easy task these days, and they are far to easily and readily abused by players and fans, but to my eyes it appears nobody, at local level especially, is grabbing this problem by the tail and pulling it back.  Unless the problem is addressed soon it might become the ruination of West Country footballarrow-10x10.png - something that no genuine football follower would wish to see.  Surely the Referees Association should be saying to Cornwall FA - 'Enough is enough' and the two of them get together with representatives from all leagues and draw up a new (for the want of a  title)  'master' plan to at the very least attempt to reduce the problem?

The Cornwall FA are so out of touch that they wont do anything about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The players on the pitch, make many mistakes a game, so referees are allowed to do it, surely that's just what comes with playing at this level?? Some refs are better than others, and some refs have good games, and bad games.... just like the players?? People screaming from the side, see it from their sides point of view, and normally from miles further away anyway?? Without them we wouldn't be able to play/go and watch local football, they're going to make mistakes. With regard to respect, aren't the Duchy and Trelawney leagues piloting a "sin bin" scheme at the moment? Therefore trying to stop the issue?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not shake the refs hand before the game and say 'have a good game ref'  or if he plays a good advantage, just run past and say 'great advantage just now ref'. Think you'll find most of the refs are human and want to have a good game as much as the players, and most are good blokes. We've got some superb refs in this county. I realise and know you get the odd refs that are bossy and you can't talk to them and treats players like kids but they are few and far between. No ref wants to go to a game wanting to make wrong decisions and ruin it!! Give them a chance, they deserve to enjoy a match as much as the players and as for the lino's, give them massive respect! They are giving up a couple of hours of their time for nothing in most cases, not to be abused every ten minutes! Next match you play in, go to, manage whatever, just try and go out of your way to make the officials feel welcome, you may find out they are actually decent chaps! ?⚽️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair Tom, I know you're  a modest guy but you're exactly what I'm talking about!! Dished out hard but fair tackles, and was on the end of some dirty late tackles, and loads of elbows to your face which I remember well (surprised you're still so good looking mate!) usually by frustrated forwards you were getting the better of and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't ever remember you getting a yellow card which is amazing considering the standard you played at and the position you played in! We knew most of the refs back in those days and they called you by your first name/nickname whatever, they were part of the game, usually had a good bit of banter with them without crossing the line. Try and make the ref feel involved and not there as an outsider, 22 players and a bloke in black no one likes, make it 23 on the pitch all trying to enjoy the game otherwise what's the point!?! I watched a SWPL at the end of last season, there was nothing on the game really, couple of mid table teams and the ref got abuse from both benches, players from both teams, and a small section of the crowd just up from me on the touch line. I didn't think he had too bad a game either to be fair! One bench went berserk because he got a throw in wrong on the halfway line and questioned his parentage!! It was ridiculous to see and not very nice, and I wondered if he had any family there watching to be honest. I don't know how much refs get paid these days but he deserved double at least that night!! I'm not a preacher or anything and I can't say I've never given the odd Lino some grief for an offside or disallowed goal in my time but I'm just saying try and give the chaps a chance. We wonder why we got a refs shortage and not many want to take up the whistle etc well there's your answer! Treat them a bit better and with respect and things may change for the better? ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/28/2017 at 08:39, Dave Deacon said:

The County FA held a "Behaviour" meeting at the end of the season before last. Was there any follow up?

The criticism seems to be pointed towards the referees, but I don't think they have really got any worse, it could be that there is far more gamesmanship being applied from the players!

No it wasn't and no info from the original meeting was received by clubs i've spoken to since.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did get two yellow cards in my playing time but thankfully both for tackles and not for dissent. 

I had times when I didn't like the referees decisions but I still shook hands with them at full time. Yes we knew most by name and treated them like friends and had a drink with them afterwards regardless of how the game went. When you see some of them today they stop and reminisce and still have good things to say. 

I've watched games just like you and while many of those on the touchlines shout abuse at the officials I'm mostly thinking the guy has got it right...again! 

Whenever the ref makes a decision one team is happy the other team isn't. Perhaps just once we should all pick up the whistle and have a go and see just how easy it is. 

I work with two of Cornwall's best referees and neither goes to a game to be the centre of attention and both are honest enough on a Monday morning to tell me if they made a mistake. The best thing to them is to come off the pitch and someone say "Didn't see you today ref!"

I made more mistakes in games than the referee. 

By the way it would also help if everyone knew the laws of the game before they opened their mouths!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

can't be bothered to read it all....

 

but what I've read is another keyboard warrior hiding being a user name. 

let's face it if you can't do the job don't comment. knocking the SWPL refs who are among the best in the  county isn't a smart thing to do. with out them you would either have no game. ermmmm that's a step back. bring in Devon based refs £££ big fuel bibs for these teams or worse still have to lower the standard of ref to do these games. 

yes I am a ref. yes I make mistakes every game. yes I do try to improve and learn from them but then everyone on the field makes mistakes it's human nature. strikers will miss, mid fielders will make bad passes, defenders will give away pen and keepers will let in easy goals and refs will make "strange" calls. but deal with it it's football it is entertainment if you don't like it there are plenty of rugby teams to go and moan about there refs aswel.

also I think the problem isn't refs it's coaches/managers allowing players to be disrespectful I did a game on Saturday and both managers said to the players any gobbing off he will take them off no 2nd chances and guess what I had NO dissent or bad fouls all game and it was a big derby game between the 2. it's down to players and teams at the end of the day. I think it would benefit all clubs to have a qualified ref within the team not necessary an active ref but a ref so they atleast understand all the laws and comp rules etc that would hammer out alot of the B.S that goes on and again if managers took action to shut players up before the refs need to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I, like you Mr. B am fed up with these whiners who turn up on the forum every year with the same moans and groans. However this year perhaps they may have a point. The F.A.'s respect agenda and the C.C.F.A. and Cornish leagues meetings have had very little noticeable impact at the grass roots, and grass shoots at all levels of County football. We can hope that the sin-bin will have some effect, but it will take years to broaden its applications and filter up to levels 5,6 and beyond. 

Are last years discussions going to be continued and implemented? Personally I think we're in for a long wait.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mr Bean said:

can't be bothered to read it all....

 

but what I've read is another keyboard warrior hiding being a user name. 

let's face it if you can't do the job don't comment. knocking the SWPL refs who are among the best in the  county isn't a smart thing to do. with out them you would either have no game. ermmmm that's a step back. bring in Devon based refs £££ big fuel bibs for these teams or worse still have to lower the standard of ref to do these games. 

yes I am a ref. yes I make mistakes every game. yes I do try to improve and learn from them but then everyone on the field makes mistakes it's human nature. strikers will miss, mid fielders will make bad passes, defenders will give away pen and keepers will let in easy goals and refs will make "strange" calls. but deal with it it's football it is entertainment if you don't like it there are plenty of rugby teams to go and moan about there refs aswel.

also I think the problem isn't refs it's coaches/managers allowing players to be disrespectful I did a game on Saturday and both managers said to the players any gobbing off he will take them off no 2nd chances and guess what I had NO dissent or bad fouls all game and it was a big derby game between the 2. it's down to players and teams at the end of the day. I think it would benefit all clubs to have a qualified ref within the team not necessary an active ref but a ref so they atleast understand all the laws and comp rules etc that would hammer out alot of the B.S that goes on and again if managers took action to shut players up before the refs need to.

Typical ref, moaning about people moaning about them and then blaming others...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/08/2017 at 17:01, frank de bouff said:

Typical ref, moaning about people moaning about them and then blaming others...

you wouldn't speak to ur wife, ur boss or school/college tutors the way these players speak to refs and remember with out us..... who is gona ref you? 

if u was pulled over by the police for speeding you wouldn't say **** off copper I wasn't speeding.... so what's the difference between that and a foul. remember just like the police we know the LAW. there is no rules in football just laws. remember this next time u rant at ur ref.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mr Bean, in principle I totally agree with what you have said and the support that referees need, however (and it is a big however), in the SWPL Prem, clubs pay for a highly qualified referee and two qualified assistant referees and despite what many think, these officials are are often paid more than many of the players over whom they officiate.

I watch SWPL Prem matches every weeks (often two games) paying £5 a time, buying a 50/50 and always putting money into the host club through food and dinks however often leave a game feeling very let down by the standard of officiating (whilst I support a club the result never bothers me once the game is over - the better team on the day wins). Yes, everyone makes mistakes and often the same incident can be seen by ten people who will all have a different view of what happened. Yes some teams and players are a disgrace to themselves, clubs and the spectators who pay to watch them. Yes referees are always 'wrong' in the view of half the people there - BUT

1. They have the powers, within the law to deal with abuse and dissent, but THEY choose not to. If a player at this level abuses the referee, assistants, spectators etc - card them, who cares if the manager gets upset?

2. Clubs pay for assistant referees who 99 times out of 100 do nothing. I know the referee will have told them what decision he will make and which ones if any the assistant will make - but when you see an assistant referee giving a throw in from 5 yds and a clear view, yet the referee gives it the other way from 15yds and an obscured view is it any wonder people complain. When some assistant referees give penalties and others are ignored, when some assistant referees are simply not fit enough to keep up with exceptionally fast young wingers, or ignore clear fouls as 'not their remit'.

3. Some referees have a demeanour that quite frankly alienates them from everyone, these are the ones who eat and drink alone at the end of a game. As you yourself know, a good referee talks to players and has good man management skills, we all know which referees possess this and those that don't. Unfortunately some referees do consider themselves the most important person on a pitch - yet as mentioned earlier a good referee is never noticed by supporters as they seemlessly manage the game.

I watched a game recently officiated by Mr Annis, a referee I have previously questioned after last seasons Falmouth v Bodmin game. He was calm, clear and spoke to players in a firm but fair manner. He was up with play and positioning was excellent and explained his decisions, carding when necessary. I didn't agree with all his decisions, but would happily see him officiate another game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two points Bobjfh; the Referees should be getting more cash than the players, who are supposed to be amateurs playing as a hobby and frankly should be paying for the privilege rather than being paid. Secondly, at the end of point 2 you left out the "h", after the 'w' in wingers! Apart from that I, by and large, agree with your main points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

end of the day the ref has the say or what's the point of having him.

 

yes I agree I am very open and happy to explain my decisions to players. 

if I make a call and then think. umm was that wrong I have a large network of high level refs as friends who are very experienced I talk to them and ask for advice. some players will do the same thing they where booked for last game then again the following week and again and again yet never learn and their managers won't say anything as they are afraid to upset the players. 

I'd say alot of refs also talk like I do to more experienced refs to learn and improve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/2/2017 at 11:44, Mr Bean said:

you wouldn't speak to ur wife, ur boss or school/college tutors the way these players speak to refs and remember with out us..... who is gona ref you? 

if u was pulled over by the police for speeding you wouldn't say **** off copper I wasn't speeding.... so what's the difference between that and a foul. remember just like the police we know the LAW. there is no rules in football just laws. remember this next time u rant at ur ref.

But half of the time you don't know the law. You're too set in your traditional ideologies and want the camera to shine on you so make every single decision a mountain out of a molehill to suit you and your hidden agenda...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/09/2017 at 12:35, Bobjfh said:

Mr Bean, in principle I totally agree with what you have said and the support that referees need, however (and it is a big however), in the SWPL Prem, clubs pay for a highly qualified referee and two qualified assistant referees and despite what many think, these officials are are often paid more than many of the players over whom they officiate.

I watch SWPL Prem matches every weeks (often two games) paying £5 a time, buying a 50/50 and always putting money into the host club through food and dinks however often leave a game feeling very let down by the standard of officiating (whilst I support a club the result never bothers me once the game is over - the better team on the day wins). Yes, everyone makes mistakes and often the same incident can be seen by ten people who will all have a different view of what happened. Yes some teams and players are a disgrace to themselves, clubs and the spectators who pay to watch them. Yes referees are always 'wrong' in the view of half the people there - BUT

1. They have the powers, within the law to deal with abuse and dissent, but THEY choose not to. If a player at this level abuses the referee, assistants, spectators etc - card them, who cares if the manager gets upset?

2. Clubs pay for assistant referees who 99 times out of 100 do nothing. I know the referee will have told them what decision he will make and which ones if any the assistant will make - but when you see an assistant referee giving a throw in from 5 yds and a clear view, yet the referee gives it the other way from 15yds and an obscured view is it any wonder people complain. When some assistant referees give penalties and others are ignored, when some assistant referees are simply not fit enough to keep up with exceptionally fast young wingers, or ignore clear fouls as 'not their remit'.

3. Some referees have a demeanour that quite frankly alienates them from everyone, these are the ones who eat and drink alone at the end of a game. As you yourself know, a good referee talks to players and has good man management skills, we all know which referees possess this and those that don't. Unfortunately some referees do consider themselves the most important person on a pitch - yet as mentioned earlier a good referee is never noticed by supporters as they seemlessly manage the game.

I watched a game recently officiated by Mr Annis, a referee I have previously questioned after last seasons Falmouth v Bodmin game. He was calm, clear and spoke to players in a firm but fair manner. He was up with play and positioning was excellent and explained his decisions, carding when necessary. I didn't agree with all his decisions, but would happily see him officiate another game.

Have to fully agree with your comments.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...