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Results of recent CCFA hearings


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1. Cameford 1st v Wadebridge 1st – 2nd August 2016 (Pre-season Friendly)

Ben Joyce of Wadebridge Town is charged for an Alleged Breach of FA Rule E3 - Improper Conduct (including threatening behaviour and abusive language)

After being dismissed by the match official under Law 12 Section S6 Mr Joyce threatened the referee and used abusive language towards him

Charge - Proven

Suspension 112 Days – 01/10/2016 – 20/01/2017

Fine £100

***

2. Roche 1st v Bude Town Reserves - 13th August 2016 (East Cornwall Premier League)

Jack Barbery of Roche has been charged for an alleged breach of FA Rule E3 - Improper Conduct (including abusive language/behavior)

Jack Barbery, the manager of Roche, was dismissed from the technical area by the referee for repeatedly using abusive language towards him

Charge – Proven

Suspension – 5 Matches (Stadium Ban)

Fine - £50

***

3. Roche 1st v Bude Town Reserves - 13th August 2016 (East Cornwall Premier League)

Trevor Osbourne of Roche has been charged with an alleged Breach of FA Rule E3 - Improper Conduct

After the match Mr Osbourne approached the referee and used abusive language towards him

Charge – Proven

Suspension – 3 Matches

Fine - £30

***

4. Penryn Athletic 3rd v Chacewater 1st – August 22nd 2016 (Trelawney League)

Scott Roberts of Penryn Athletic 3rd is charged for an alleged breach of FA Rule E3 - Improper Conduct (including abusive language/behavior)

The referee removed Scott Roberts from the technical area for repeated use of abusive language towards him.

Charge – Proven

Suspension – 3 Matches (Stadium Ban)

Fine - £30

***

5. St Agnes 1st v Perranporth 1st – 23rd August 2016 (LWC Drinks Combination League)

Ben Lawrence of Perranporth has been charged for an alleged breach of FA Rule E3 - Improper Conduct (including abusive language)

After being dismissed from the field of play Mr Lawrence used abusive language towards the referee

Charge – Proven

Suspension – 3 Matches

Fine - £50

***

6. Torpoint Athletic 2nd v Bere Alston United – 20th August 2016

Torpoint Athletic are charged with an alleged breach of FA Rule E20 - Failure to control their spectators

A spectator from Torpoint Athletic repeatedly used abusive and offensive language towards the referee and had to be removed from the ground, the same spectator then returned and again had to be removed

Charge – Proven

Fine £75 with £50 suspended for 12 months due to the action taken by Torpoint to deal with the incident when it occurred

***

7. St Agnes reserves v Perranporth reserves – 24th August 2016 Trelawney League

Colin Wheeler of Perranporth is charged for an alleged breach of FA Rule E3 - Improper Conduct - including threatening behaviour and/or abusive language

At half time Mr Wheeler, who was a spectator at the game but is a registered player for Perranporth, came onto the pitch without permission and repeatedly used foul and abusive language towards the referee and acted in a threatening manner. Mr Wheeler was removed from the ground

Charge – Proven

Suspension – 5 Matches

Fine - £50

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Great to see that positive action is being taken by the CCFA for abuse towards match officials - sends out a clear message and a bit of 'name and shame'  

Concerning the Joyce suspension, I know there have been changes affecting the application of Rule E3 in friendlies as opposed to sanctions resulting from cards in friendlies - but I can't help see a slight issue of double standards.

If a players commits a totally reckless tackle and breaks someone's leg in a friendly and is red carded (by example), they will only get a ban from future friendlies - if after being dismissed they use abusive language to the match official they get banned from league / competition matches. 

I know the FA must be firm and support and protect officials, it's long overdue - but on the issue of friendlies they seem to have created inequality?

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In reply to the question raised relating to friendlies.........the county have offered this clarification:-

"Any red card issued in a friendly results in a 1 match ban for the player from the next friendly match (this includes foul and abusive language), however when the report comes in should it be considered that the red card warrants more than the 1 match ban and it is the best interests of football, a further charge can be issued, so in the case of a wild and reckless leg breaking challenge this would usually be done once further statements have been gathered and the incident further investigated.

Misconduct charges under FA Rule E3 or E20 are no different for friendly matches or competitive fixtures and should we receive a report of Misconduct it would be dealt with in the normal way."

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The CCFA are doing what they can. It is important to note that these charges becoming public (well distributed; papers, social media etc) is as a result of the Respect & Behaviour Working Group. The suggestions coming from the clubs/officials. So, bare in mind that the ideas, recommendations and feedback that we received from the clubs and officials has been noted and acted upon. Keep an eye out in the near future for the compiled document from the meetings.

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Have just read the West Briton and seen a full page article by Rhod, showing these findings of guilt and outstanding charges to be heard. Once again totally support this push by the CCFA - not quite so keen on the outstanding charges bit as players are surely innocent until a hearing and may consider trial by media inappropriate?

All of the findings and charges are for foul / abusive / threatening behaviour towards the referee, which is appropriate - however I just have a couple of questions to the better informed out there:

Having watched a lot of SWPL games, a couple of the 'top' teams (players and coaches/managers) are renowned for being abusive towards match officials, surrounding them and verbally challenging nearly every decision against them - yet these teams do not appear on the list of those charged. Is this because the officials go to those matches 'expecting' to be challenged so therefore do not react by submitting charges, or is it that bigger clubs are given more leeway?

Secong point is, and partly relates to another thread about language by a player (but in no way directed at that player) is there anything being done within the 'respect and behaviour' group concerning behaviour by players towards players / spectators etc.. For example if a players is continually foul mouthed towards other players / spectators, what action can / should the referee take against them - I know it's a thorny topic as football is a contact sport and much is said in the heat of games - but we all know some players who are just foul mouthed throughout a game and by their actions make the game far less enjoyable to watch? The same applies to spectators who are abusive towards players - if to the referee they are banned from ground if to players little seems to be done..

In essence are the great steps forward being looked at holistically for the game - and not just limited to officials?

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7 hours ago, Bobjfh said:

Have just read the West Briton and seen a full page article by Rhod, showing these findings of guilt and outstanding charges to be heard. Once again totally support this push by the CCFA - not quite so keen on the outstanding charges bit as players are surely innocent until a hearing and may consider trial by media inappropriate?

All of the findings and charges are for foul / abusive / threatening behaviour towards the referee, which is appropriate - however I just have a couple of questions to the better informed out there:

Having watched a lot of SWPL games, a couple of the 'top' teams (players and coaches/managers) are renowned for being abusive towards match officials, surrounding them and verbally challenging nearly every decision against them - yet these teams do not appear on the list of those charged. Is this because the officials go to those matches 'expecting' to be challenged so therefore do not react by submitting charges, or is it that bigger clubs are given more leeway?

Secong point is, and partly relates to another thread about language by a player (but in no way directed at that player) is there anything being done within the 'respect and behaviour' group concerning behaviour by players towards players / spectators etc.. For example if a players is continually foul mouthed towards other players / spectators, what action can / should the referee take against them - I know it's a thorny topic as football is a contact sport and much is said in the heat of games - but we all know some players who are just foul mouthed throughout a game and by their actions make the game far less enjoyable to watch? The same applies to spectators who are abusive towards players - if to the referee they are banned from ground if to players little seems to be done..

In essence are the great steps forward being looked at holistically for the game - and not just limited to officials?

Some great points/questions here which I will try to answer.

The FA are releasing the information so that the public can see it. I have already spoken to one person who was named on this list after two outbursts on social media, one page being the Trelawny Facebook page that I run. That comment was removed and I messaged the person in question directly. Whilst freedom of speech is all well and good, sometimes the content posted isn't All I can ask is that those that have the powers to monitor the comments do so with a bit of thought, this Forum included. Conduct on social media is one of the areas that the working group has focussed on.

I'm afraid I can't talk about the SWPL referees as I'm junior to them and do not officiate in the SWPL. They haven't yet been briefed by the CFA (to my knowledge) about the policies being laid down. They will do once it has been released. 

Players who foul mouth other players, substitutes, team officials and/or referees used to be punished by stopping play and issuing a yellow card, with the resulting restart being an indirect free kick to the non-offending side. That law has changed. It is now punishable by a direct free kick or penalty kick from where the incident took place. Gob off to a player inside your own box... You could be giving away a penalty for your trouble. This also applies for members of the same team. You gob off at each-other, have a bit of handbags... the opposition get a free kick.  The lawbook states: If the ball is in play and a player commits an offence inside the field of play against: • an opponent – indirect or direct free kick or penalty kick • a team-mate, substitute, substituted player, team official or a match official – a direct free kick or penalty kick • any other person (spectator) – a dropped ball. Referee's have a way of managing these types of situations though, so I'd like to think that in most cases, that's what would happen. I personally have a very low tolerance of abuse, foul language etc so I would stamp it out very early on, it's a pet hate of mine. Again, this is all about the referee and the way in which he/she manages the game.

All the steps that the FA are taking are aimed at clubs and officials alike. Some aspects will only apply to referees, some just to the clubs whilst the rest will be aimed at both.

As soon as the document is released, I'll get it on here and answer all of your questions :)

 

 

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Are these Appeal Hearimgs ? From what I gather, these are the outcomes from Appeal Hearimgs where the accused is in protest at one or many factors of the case or punishment against them.

Is it safe to assume that those that accept the punishments and fines are NOT listed in this publication....? 

Either way, it's the right thing to do. This public display of abusive behaviour towards Officials, Clubs, Supporters and Players should be dealt with publicly, the offenders deserve to be named and shamed. 

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2 minutes ago, ECPL said:

Now all the officials have to be consistent or it will flat on its face.  Good work CCFA

One point that we are trying to put across to everyone is that referee's are all different. They/we have different ways of managing games and different ways of approaching/dealing with situations, exactly the same as players. You will never have consistent referees week in week out. By that statement, I mean that they won't be the same person; the won't have the same style and approach etc. The main point that we are putting across is that individual referees have to be consistent over the duration of the game. I hope that makes sense.

 

1 minute ago, referee said:

Are these Appeal Hearimgs ? From what I gather, these are the outcomes from Appeal Hearimgs where the accused is in protest at one or many factors of the case or punishment against them.

Is it safe to assume that those that accept the punishments and fines are NOT listed in this publication....? 

Either way, it's the right thing to do. This public display of abusive behaviour towards Officials, Clubs, Supporters and Players should be dealt with publicly, the offenders deserve to be named and shamed. 

The statements where you see the charges (bans, fines etc) are the ones that have had hearings. The rest are charges which will be heard within a few weeks.

It's my understanding that all charges will be documented and placed in the public domain, even those that accept them. That is down to the Governance Officer though so it will be up to him.

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It's all very well publishing cases that have been dealt with but those that are just allegations at this stage? Can't help feeling that it is a bit of a kangaroo court and not the correct procedure. In the highly improbable scenario that one of the accused is exonerated, will that then be published too?? The dinosaurs at CCFA bang on about respect but surely it is a two way street and these accused command respect too? Whoever is in charge of this charade should have thought it through. That person sure has hell hasn't earnt any respect from these playground-type actions. Can see solicitors rubbing their hands together with all the libel cases on the horizon. 

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If it is still at the 'Allegation' stage or an Appeal Hearing has not yet been heard then the Clubs and Individuals should be allowed anonymity until found guilty. 

Only those cases that have been fully finalised should be published, otherwise everybody and his dog will be on the forums and wanting to attend the Hearings with the possible outcome of altering the course of justice. 

 

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It's exactly the same as any other offence in the real world. You read in the papers "so and so arrested and is charged with theft. Court date next week" etc. It's exactly the same. Being charged with an offence is different to being "heard" (the case heard by a jury, or in FA case, a committee).  These individuals are being charged with the offences (the term used by the CFA is "is charged with") and then when the case has been heard, it turns to "has been charged" (if found "proven"). It's no different to a normal court procedure. Of course, if those individuals aren't found "proven" (innocent) for the offence which they have been reported for, that will be made public via the same channels I assume.

I know very little about the hearing procedure but I will pass on your comments to the CFA if you wish and I'll post their answer when I receive it. As I said in a previous post, it is down to site administrators to manage the content on their forums/pages.

This was the clubs, referees and individuals request. They wanted to see and hear about these charges. It was a recommendation. :c: Personally, I think it's a positive step. You hear about everything at the top level.

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17 minutes ago, Dange'rous said:

It's exactly the same as any other offence in the real world. You read in the papers "so and so arrested and is charged with theft. Court date next week" etc. It's exactly the same. Being charged with an offence is different to being "heard" (the case heard by a jury, or in FA case, a committee).  These individuals are being charged with the offences (the term used by the CFA is "is charged with") and then when the case has been heard, it turns to "has been charged" (if found guilty). It's no different to a normal court procedure. Of course, if those individuals aren't found guilty for the offence which they have been reported for, that will be made public via the same channels. 

I know very little about the hearing procedure but I will pass on your comments to the CFA if you wish and I'll post there answer when I receive it. As I said in a previous post, it is down to site administrators to manage the content on their forums/pages.

This was the clubs, referees and individuals request. They wanted to see and hear about these charges. It was a recommendation.

Well if that is not ass about face then I don't know what is. Now I know CCFA stands for cornwall confused football association. And this is some petty swearing not criminal law so let's have a little perspective. As I said - kangaroo court.

 

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Dange'rous - just a quick point. I know you try to answer as many 'official' questions as possible on the forum and it is much appreciated.

If you are speaking to the CCFA I would suggest that you do raise the issue of going to print on matters which have not been before any discipline hearing. These cases are not the same as a 'normal' court and there are strict reporting conditions that can / cannot be applied for court proceedings. Individuals who appear in the paper as 'charged' with an offence have already had their case reviewed by an independent body and a prima facia case shown - this is not the same as the CCFA preparing a charge to be heard and will result in complaints that may deter from the actual offence committed. For the sake of 14 days it would be must more preferable to publish every week those cases where the case has been heard and the individual / club been found guilty - Richard should know this.

 

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18 minutes ago, Bobjfh said:

Dange'rous - just a quick point. I know you try to answer as many 'official' questions as possible on the forum and it is much appreciated.

If you are speaking to the CCFA I would suggest that you do raise the issue of going to print on matters which have not been before any discipline hearing. These cases are not the same as a 'normal' court and there are strict reporting conditions that can / cannot be applied for court proceedings. Individuals who appear in the paper as 'charged' with an offence have already had their case reviewed by an independent body and a prima facia case shown - this is not the same as the CCFA preparing a charge to be heard and will result in complaints that may deter from the actual offence committed. For the sake of 14 days it would be must more preferable to publish every week those cases where the case has been heard and the individual / club been found guilty - Richard should know this.

 

I'll put that point across. I can only answer questions which I know the answers to (or can research) I'm afraid. I'll get an answer to you as soon as I can.

21 minutes ago, le boss said:

Well if that is not ass about face then I don't know what is. Now I know CCFA stands for cornwall confused football association. And this is some petty swearing not criminal law so let's have a little perspective. As I said - kangaroo court.

 

It might be petty swearing to you, but it happens too often. I've been refereeing for a year and I've already suffered enough abuse to annoy the hell outta me. But, I've had many, many more games where I've had no problems and enjoyed it :) 

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2 hours ago, cornishteddyboy said:

Does it make a difference if the referee concerned is a player of the opposing team and was referee because at the moment he/she is injured?

One word against another.

Whoever steps on that field to officiate a game is empowered to carry out his/her duty within the realms of the Laws Of The Game and competition rules, regardless of whether that referee is associated with a club or not. Now, in these circumstances I will assume that the referee/player you mention, should he/she be a currently registered referee, would have been appointed to that game by the Referee Appointments Officer. Due to the current shortage of referees, particularly over the last few weeks, this scenario probably occurred on a few occasions. I'm almost certain that if a referee is affiliated with a club, the club's secretary would have also had the courtesy to inform the other team's secretary of the circumstances.

In your case, being a representative of Penzance, I should imagine the fact you kicked off at 12pm last week shows an agreement being made between two clubs. I can only assume this was so you could have a referee who was already allocated to a game that afternoon, take charge of your game earlier in the day in order to allow both teams to have a game of football.

No need to be cryptic, come straight out with it, it's alot simpler :) 

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I am not representing Pz but just making an general inquiry as come towards the end of the season when games might become really important re promotion and relegation having players banned for extra matches could be very damaging to a clubs future. Will we see more games called off as clubs won't want to take a risk on a club referee not dishing out red cards and seeing players banned more than a couple of games.

Also before making a choice on the extra punishment does the said committee read the reports on the referees from the clubs?

What do you mean by your last comment by the way?

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Of course it could be damaging to a clubs promotion/relegation battles when they have players missing through suspension. But players should seriously think about their conduct before blaming a referee, at the same time they should consider their conduct and think about the effect it could have on their team/club. On that note, I received a very grown up apology yesterday.

With regards to discipline cases, that is all dealt with internally by Richard Pallott and the FA panel. I can't answer any questions based on the process as I'm unsure of what it involves. They definitely read the reports.

My last comment was based around your original post; it was obviously aimed at me, after I refereed New Inn Titans (for who I'm the secretary of) and Penzance Reserves the week before last. Sanctioned by the league and agreed with by both clubs (I have the emails) :) 

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44 minutes ago, Brianmooreshead said:

I don't understand what CTB means by a " Club " referee - Do you mean someone from one of the clubs that stands in when a ref fails to arrive ?

Basically, there was a noticeable referee shortage over the last few weeks due to a number of games being played in FA competitions across the County (it's the same every season at that time of year).

I'm an active referee and have been for a while now. I got injured on the first day of the season ( The doctors think I've ruptured a disc in my back - finally got my MRI scan tomorrow :yahoo:). Because of that injury, I've not been playing. Once it became comfortable to run on again, I put my name forward to referee regularly instead of just when I'm not playing.

The day in question that CTB talks of, there was no referee assigned to the game (there was about 8 in the league with no referees). I'm the club secretary of Titans. Their management team asked me to referee the game, I said no for two reasons... I'd been assigned a game already; and the last time I refereed my own team, I cautioned a player for dissent... he never spoke to me again and left the club at the end of the season. I'd have rather not had that problem.

Anyway, as the weekend drew nearer, I got asked again by the manager. I said I'd see what I can do; so I emailed the opposition and the referee appointments officer. After a few emails between us all and everything was agreed, I was appointed to the game officially and kick off was moved to 12 o'clock so that straight after the full time whistle, I could get in my car and head across towards Falmouth for my next game. 

Unfortunately until we get more referees through the course, this will happen more and more, especially in the ordered period at the end of each season. Treat referees better (I got verbally abused in this game and in the aftermath on social media, hence why CTB mentions players being banned) and I'm sure that these situations won't come about too often. 

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Dange'rous i can't be the only person who reads your posts and think......please shut up with your BS! :SM_carton:

your a self appointed "referee spokesman"......when in reality your just a  very busy jobs worth! trying to make a name for yourself by getting your fingers in as many pies as you can!

anyone could answer any refereeing problem or question as you do by using the law book and "copy & paste"........but hats off you do it so well! 

NO referee should be allowed to be as involved in a club the way yourself and others are weather it be as a secretary, manager or a player.  as in my opinion your just putting yourself in the firing line needlessly, if an when something doesn't go right or in the way of a team! (I'm not calling your credibility / integrity into question)

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10 hours ago, Richard Rundle said:

I'm going to be interested if there is ever a case at these hearings which is not "proven", as all that seems to be necessary to accuse, charge and convict a player is the word of the referee.

A couple of seasons ago a supporter was accused (not by me I was just the ref) of racist comments, it went to appeal and he won and the charges where dropped. Being the ref I had to go along and give my side of the story and was as honest as I could of been. 

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13 hours ago, Keith B said:

Hang on Richard, you're getting into dangerous water now. We know and indeed most refs will admit, that at times they get it wrong, and indeed it's good when a ref acknowledges it on the field and perhaps cancels a decision, or rules in another direction BUT - if we start challenging a refs decision every time we don't like it, where do we go from there. In the pro game the TV ref could be given a more active roll, but at our level who could be called on to adjudicate ?

We must have faith in the system whereby officials are trained and brought through from junior levels before being given charge of senior games AND, we must trust in the officials honesty and integrity. Most of the time I believe the officials get it right. Lets not cast doubt on the system that stands or chaos will ensue. The FA and CCFA are constantly assessing officials, please let's leave it at that.

Dangerous water? I don't think so. I fully accept that in the vast majority of games, referees do a superb job. I saw a young referee today handling a Duchy League match and did so in a way that gives me hope he will be reffing at a much higher level in the future. It is a difficult job, I sure wouldn't want to do it and of course without the people in black we wouldn't have a game to watch.

What I can't accept is that if it is one persons word against another, the referee's version of events will in 99.9% of occurences be treated as gospel and players are banned from playing and given substantial fines. If there are other, independent witnesses to back up the referee's word of course that becomes different.

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4 minutes ago, Richard Rundle said:

Dangerous water? I don't think so. I fully accept that in the vast majority of games, referees do a superb job. I saw a young referee today handling a Duchy League match and did so in a way that gives me hope he will be reffing at a much higher level in the future. It is a difficult job, I sure wouldn't want to do it and of course without the people in black we wouldn't have a game to watch.

What I can't accept is that if it is one persons word against another, the referee's version of events will in 99.9% of occurences be treated as gospel and players are banned from playing and given substantial fines. If there are other, independent witnesses to back up the referee's word of course that becomes different.

But the player has everything to gain by lying and the referee has nothing to gain by doing so. Most of the time the referee's report is the only part the referee takes in a appeal hearing, unless the representative has any questions to clarify from the report.

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1 hour ago, Keith B said:

Where would we find these unbiased independent witnesses Richard ?

Exactly ! 

I am an old man in the middle of a field all by myself. I get a whole range of abuse and occasionally send them off or report managers/supporters etc for misconduct for offences before or during or after the game.

I have no independent witnesses out there on Saturday afternoon or at 7:30pm on a Tuesday evening at CCFA offices. The offenders concerned can turn up with their friends and say that they were stood right next to him the whole game and that nobody said nothing to nobody never and I am sat there by myself with no support whatsoever. 

As a Referee , I have no say in what the bans of fines will be. I no longer turn up for Appeal Hearings unless I am there to support a fellow Referee - I now simply add that I will not be attending and that I have nothing to add or remove from my original report. What leniency they get or the drop in fines or bans is none of my business so I try my best not to involve myself with it.

However, I do browse the Disciplinary Lists whenever I have sent someone off to see what ban they got. It is interesting stuff to read. !! 

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I know a lot of referees and work with three very good ones. I've never heard them say they were looking to send someone off and are happiest when they feel they've managed the game well enough not to wave any cards around. 

Believe it or not they look forward to Saturday afternoons as well so why would they wish to invite a load of grief? 

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If only it was as simple as letting the players play, the referees officiate, the managers/coaches encourage and the fans support. Everybody would have such a simple life but then again without the fines how would funds get into the county coffers!

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2 hours ago, Willow Tree said:

If only it was as simple as letting the players play, the referees officiate, the managers/coaches encourage and the fans support. Everybody would have such a simple life but then again without the fines how would funds get into the county coffers!

Sponsored walk (?) LOL

Seriously, I have noticed a change from the referees in the games I've seen (other than Helston/Argyle) whereby they have had strong words with the players when they have let rip with a few ahem's, good I say.

My opinion at present - I detect a change - albeit small - a beginning.

And good on the referees, and please tell them not be apologetic about it....they have enough with all the other stuff that goes on.

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11 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Sponsored walk (?) LOL

Seriously, I have noticed a change from the referees in the games I've seen (other than Helston/Argyle) whereby they have had strong words with the players when they have let rip with a few ahem's, good I say.

My opinion at present - I detect a change - albeit small - a beginning.

And good on the referees, and please tell them not be apologetic about it....they have enough with all the other stuff that goes on.

It's very positive to hear that you've noticed a change. 

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6 minutes ago, Dange'rous said:

 

1 minute ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Well - where before you could sense they did not really want to deal with the player as such, they now seem to feel they have the authority and support to face the player - and sort it (!)

The players seem to be aware that it is now not to be tolerated, and have not "had a go" afterwards....loving it.

 

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