LAWS OF THE GAME

[ECPL]

Just a little curious about the off side law.  I watched Spurs play somebody in a pre season game on TV.  A free kick came in and a player is well off side, the ball hits the Spurs defender on the head, the ball goes to the goalscorer who carried on his run and is well offside but the goal is given. 

The offside rule keeps changing, years ago it would have been called up for offside.  Then it changed to first phase and second phase, then it was being in an offside position and distracting the goalkeeper.  So what is the actual law now.  Just asking fr the definitive law on offside

[St Darren]

As stupid as it is but that would be the next phase of play. Not sure what determines next phase though. 

Be better to say that if you're offside in the area then your offside regardless of what passage of play as you're looking to gain an advantage

[baldy]

Someone (Dangerous?) put many posts in great detail about new laws a few months ago.

I was told by a referee that you can now be given offside in your own half. I don't think he was joking. If he was I may have to reassess his character!

[bighairydave]

10 hours ago, ECPL said:

Just a little curious about the off side law.  I watched Spurs play somebody in a pre season game on TV.  A free kick came in and a player is well off side, the ball hits the Spurs defender on the head, the ball goes to the goalscorer who carried on his run and is well offside but the goal is given. 

The offside rule keeps changing, years ago it would have been called up for offside.  Then it changed to first phase and second phase, then it was being in an offside position and distracting the goalkeeper.  So what is the actual law now.  Just asking fr the definitive law on offside

The difference is whether the Spurs player tried to play the ball in that direction or not. It appears in your situation above that it should have been given offside, but I didn't see the incident so cannot say 100%.

 

6 hours ago, baldy said:

Someone (Dangerous?) put many posts in great detail about new laws a few months ago.

I was told by a referee that you can now be given offside in your own half. I don't think he was joking. If he was I may have to reassess his character!

Baldy you cannot be given offside for being in your own half, but the indirect free kick can now be given in your own half if this is where you touch the ball/interfere with play. You are penalised for where you are when the ball is played but the free kick is taken from where you commit the offence.

[baldy]

You need to clarify that BHD. Indirect free kick given for what offence?

 

[ECPL]

The free kick came in, the spurs defender tried to head it away but it skimmed off the top of his head into the path of the player who was in an offside position when the kick was taken.   Still confused, anyone got a definitive answer.   The TV pundits (and we know what they are like) said he was not offside

[bighairydave]

11 hours ago, ECPL said:

The free kick came in, the spurs defender tried to head it away but it skimmed off the top of his head into the path of the player who was in an offside position when the kick was taken.   Still confused, anyone got a definitive answer.   The TV pundits (and we know what they are like) said he was not offside

I would say that should be given as offside then.

 

13 hours ago, baldy said:

You need to clarify that BHD. Indirect free kick given for what offence?

 

Offside.

[ECPL]

Surprised no definitive answers from the men in black.  Simple question.  Free kick taken player well offside, ball comes off head of defender into path of player who is now well offside, scores, goal given.  

[bighairydave]

23 minutes ago, ECPL said:

Surprised no definitive answers from the men in black.  Simple question.  Free kick taken player well offside, ball comes off head of defender into path of player who is now well offside, scores, goal given.  

I can't give a definitive answer to something I haven't seen! I habe give you what I believe should happen from what you described! What more could we give you!?

[ECPL]

We know your view but why have all the other men in black not come on to give an opinion or a definitive answer.  Perhaps I should have written in Spanish

[B Manning]

ECPL, How many of us do you want, BHD has given you his thoughts on the incident ( with which I completely agree ) so there is no more to add really.

[Guest]

I'm on my phone at sea at the moment with limited signal so I can't pull up the lawbook to quote.

Any deliberate attempt by a defender to play the ball denies an offside. Basically, if an attacker was on the penalty spot and defence stepped up to 18 yards, ball comes over the top... If a defender attempts to play the ball and he accidently flicks it backwards... The attacker is classed as onside. It's a weird one but that's just how it is. There were two examples of this last season. One in a game in the Euros aswell.  

 

To reiterate what has been said aswell, you can not be offside in your own half. You can however be penalised for the offside (technically it's interfering with play) in your own half.

If an attacker is in an offside positon and the ball is played to him (but doesn't make it past the halfway line), if the attacker comes back into his own half in an attempt to retrieve the ball, he is deemed to be interfering with play. Therefore, he is penalised (idfk) in his own half.

Usually I'd paste the exact wording from the lawbook but it's not loading on my phone out here. Once I'm home tomorrow, if it's still quizzing any of you, I'll post it.

Come to one of the Respect meetings in the next two weeks and this sort of thing can be explained   

[Sijames]

i cant believe the two officials who have commented have got their answers wrong, its a goal!! get your heads into the new law book gents!

[Guest]

It's not a new law... I'll try and get a quote

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who 
deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is 
not considered to have gained an advantage

15 hours ago, ECPL said:

Surprised no definitive answers from the men in black.  Simple question.  Free kick taken player well offside, ball comes off head of defender into path of player who is now well offside, scores, goal given.  

Goal. Deliberate attempt by the defender to play the ball.

[bighairydave]

9 minutes ago, Dange'rous said:

It's not a new law... I'll try and get a quote

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.

Thats the law you are referring too. And yes if he deliberately plays the ball then he would not be offside.

In the original post it said the ball hit the Spurs player. By saying it hit him I assumed that he did not deliberately play the ball (not having seen the incident at the time I could not be sure).

Now I have seen the incident 

I can say that Dange'rous has interpreted it correctly.

 

The law as he described from the link below on page 78. http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/79/92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf 

[Guest]

1. Offside position

It is not an offence to be in an offside position.
A player is in an offside position if:
• any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the
halfway line) and
• any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than 
both the ball and the second-last opponent

The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not 
considered.

A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
• second-last opponent or
• last two opponents

2. Offside offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by
a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:

• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly
 obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or 
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action 
impacts on an opponent or 
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an 
opponent to play the ball 
or
• gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent
when it has:
• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
• been deliberately saved by any opponent

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who 
deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is 
not considered to have gained an advantage.

A ‘save’ is when a player stops a ball which is going into or very close to the 
goal with any part of the body except the hands (unless the goalkeeper within 
the penalty area).

3. No offence
There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
• a goal kick
• a throw-in
• a corner kick

4. Infringements and sanctions

If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the
offence occurred, including if it is in the player’s own half of the field of play.

A defending player who leaves the field of play without the referee’s 
permission shall be considered to be on the goal line or touchline for the 
purposes of offside until the next stoppage in play or until the defending team has played the ball towards the halfway line and it is outside their penalty area.

If the player left the field of play deliberately, the player must be cautioned when the ball is next out of play.

An attacking player may step or stay off the field of play not to be involved in 
active play. If the player re-enters from the goal line and becomes involved in 
play before the next stoppage in play, or the defending team has played the
ball towards the halfway line and it is outside their penalty area, the player
shall be considered to be positioned on the goal line for the purposes of offside.
A player who deliberately leaves the field of play and re-enters without the 
referee’s permission and is not penalised for offside and gains an advantage, must be cautioned.

If an attacking player remains stationary between the goalposts and inside 
the goal as the ball enters the goal, a goal must be awarded unless the player
commits an offside offence or Law 12 offence in which case play is restarted 
with an indirect or direct free kick.

2 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.

Thats the law you are referring too. And yes if he deliberately plays the ball then he would not be offside.

In the original post it said the ball hit the Spurs player. By saying it hit him I assumed that he did not deliberately play the ball (not having seen the incident at the time I could not be sure).

Now I have seen the incident 

I can say that Dange'rous has interpreted it correctly.

 

The law as he described from the link below on page 78. http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/79/92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf 

Yeah I haven't seen the incident, it's literally just the fact the defender played the ball that got me to my decision. I cent remember the game in the Euros where it happened, it may have been a Vardy goal. German officials got it absolutely spot on as the defender got the slightest touch. Vardy in an offside position, receives the ball and scores. Goal allowed. A fantastic piece of officiating  

[bighairydave]

The video above shows the incident from the Spurs game. 

 

Correct the Vardy goal v Wales 

 

 

[baldy]

That all seems clear now. It is very similar to the old "played-on" rule but with the emphasis on the DELIBERATE.

Let's do this with all TV incidents!

[bighairydave]

I will try during the season to find videos of incidents that happen in our games to try and help

[Guest]

Club assistants won't be clued up on this part of the law  That leaves referees in a bit of a predicament in some games

[ECPL]

Crikey who would be a referee nowadays.  The game used to be so simple.    Thanks for the exclamation.  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ECPL said:

Crikey who would be a referee nowadays.  The game used to be so simple.    Thanks for the exclamation.  

There's a great deal that is open to interpretation. 

Im going to find another video... Tell me what you think when you see it

In your own personal opinion, Do you think it's a goal?

[fenman]

I have a feeling that it should be 2 players behind the ball , we forget about the goalkeeper  mostly . In this instance he is in front of the scorer so there is only one player behind the scorer . No goal !!!!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Both goals are perfectly legal.

If the assault on referees continues, the "best decision a referee will ever make"  -  is to pack it in.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Both goals are perfectly legal.

If the assault on referees continues, the "best decision a referee will ever make"  -  is to pack it in.

The first one described in this post is perfectly legal.

the second one you refer to, is that the one in the video clip that I posted above?

[ECPL]

Offside.  There was a player on the goal line but you have to have TWO players between the attacker and the goal.  With the goalkeeper flying through the air the attacker was clearly offiside.  Must have been an ex player as a commentator.  . 

[Guest]

Spot on ECPL. To be offside, the attacker needs to be forward of the second last defender. The defenders had advanced, leaving one defender on the line. Between him and the second last defender was an attacker, ball played through, offside. In that situation, you have to class the defender on the line as the keeper and look at it from the usual perspective, 

You will always see the referees assistants running with the second-last defender. The assistant in this game was spot on, as was the one in the England/Wales game and Spurs/Athletico game.

This refereeing malarkey can be difficult. Some people don't understand just how difficult it is until they actually try it. It just goes to show that more often than not, the officials are usually right when everyone else in the stadium and on that pitch thinks otherwise. Commentators that don't understand the laws really don't help.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, ECPL said:

Offside.  There was a player on the goal line but you have to have TWO players between the attacker and the goal.  With the goalkeeper flying through the air the attacker was clearly offiside.  Must have been an ex player as a commentator.  . 

LOL eclp...of course he's offside - so what the hell you been going on about.

Cast a line - see what you get.

[baldy]

I remember calling that one correctly at the time!

[ECPL]

Older what on earth are you rabbiting on about.  I suggest you think before you write.  My question was about the Spurs game, my last answer was about the Mexico game.  Must be an age thing.  We all have our moments   .