Guest Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Scenario 1: From a goal kick, it is possible for a defender to stand on the edge of the box, the kick taker scoops/chips the ball up for the defender to head back to the goalkeeper. What if the keeper took the kick, the player outside the area stops it, gets down on his hands and knees and heads it back. Would that be allowed? Scenario 2: Watching a game today, the goalkeeper was dealt a particular high back pass which was controlled and brought down by hand and then kicked out. It wasn't picked up but the fact that hands were used, I thought that should have been an indirect free kick but the referee played on as if nothing had happened. Should it have been an indirect free kick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Willow, First scenario. The ball has to leave the penalty area to be in play. What you've described is legal. There's nothing that says you can't do that... BUT you could penalise for circumventing the laws. I'll get you the quote from the law book in a sec. Second scenario, if the ball was deliberately played back to the goalkeeper, he is not allowed to use his hands at all to control the ball. So, it would be an indirect free kick from the position that the offence took place, unless it was in the goal area, where it would then be placed on the line parallel to the goal line. uses a deliberate trick while the ball is in play to pass the ball to his own goalkeeper with his head, chest, knee, etc. in order to circumvent the Law, irrespective of whether the goalkeeper touches the ball with his hands or not. The offence is committed by the player in attempting to circumvent both the letter and the spirit of Law 12 and play is restarted with an indirect free kick uses a deliberate trick to pass the ball to his own goalkeeper to circumvent the Law while he is taking a free kick (after the player is cautioned, the free kick must be retaken) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JENGLE Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Fairly reasonable questions Willow Tree. Has anyone ever seen Scenario 1 taken place? I for one haven't, but would like to see it happen to see what the referee would do about it. Haven't seen Scenario 2 taken place either. I've only ever seen the ball played back to the keeper and it then have to be tipped over the bar or around the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, JENGLE said: Fairly reasonable questions Willow Tree. Has anyone ever seen Scenario 1 taken place? I for one haven't, but would like to see it happen to see what the referee would do about it. Haven't seen Scenario 2 taken place either. I've only ever seen the ball played back to the keeper and it then have to be tipped over the bar or around the post. If you saw scenario 2 and the ball was tipped over the bar or around the post, if the keeper used his hands then that's an infringement. I've seen someone chip the ball up and the defender headed it back so the keeper could kick from his hands. Also saw similar where a throw in was skimmed off a defenders head straight to the keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JENGLE Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I'm sure it's happened in a game before that I've been involved in. Be it in the men's game or a youth game. With your situation there similar to Scenario 1 I suppose there's nothing illegal about it. But like Dange'rous said, it's still circumventing the law and bringing the game in to disrepute. Not really in the spirit of the game. And I wouldn't really be in favour of doing something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I'd penalise, definitely. Then I'll let the abuse go over my head that I'd receive... "He used his head ref"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I thought about bringing the game into disrepute which is why I was asking as I don't see it as against the laws of the game but merely a loophole. Ungentlemanly conduct was another term but that could also be deemed for the amount of swear words used then there would be so many bookings that the game would end up 7 v 7! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 12 hours ago, Dange'rous said: BUT you could penalise for circumventing the laws Can you explain why please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Dave, If you look at what the law states (I'll quote)... An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences: • controls the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it from his possession • touches the ball again with his hands after he has released it from his possession and before it has touched another player • touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to him by a team-mate • touches the ball with his hands after he has received it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate A goalkeeper is not permitted to touch the ball with his hand inside his own penalty area in the following circumstances: • if he handles the ball again after it has been released from his possession and has not touched any other player: – the goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball by touching it with any part of his hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from him, e.g. after he has made a save – possession of the ball includes the goalkeeper deliberately parrying the ball • if he touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to him by a team-mate • if he touches the ball with his hands after he has received it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate Caution for USB • uses a deliberate trick while the ball is in play to pass the ball to his own goalkeeper with his head, chest, knee, etc. in order to circumvent the Law, irrespective of whether the goalkeeper touches the ball with his hands or not. The offence is committed by the player in attempting to circumvent both the letter and the spirit of Law 12 and play is restarted with an indirect free kick • uses a deliberate trick to pass the ball to his own goalkeeper to circumvent the Law while he is taking a free kick (after the player is cautioned, the free kick must be retaken) For a player to get on his hands and knees, he is obviously aware of the law. He knows he can't kick it back to his goalkeeper so he deliberately goes to his hands and knees to head it back to the goalkeeper, thus circumventing the laws (finding a way around them). This isn't in the "spirit of the game" (2016 term). The scenario has to be set though; if its a cross and a defender heads back to the keeper, that's fine. If the cross comes in low and the defender gets on his hands and knees to head it back to the keeper, also fine... BUT if the defender has dribbled it out of the box or has "positive" possession, then gets to ground, that's circumventing the laws. I'll get you some video examples later, it's a lot easier to understand by seeing it actually happen. Hopefully I've explained it in such a way that you can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, Dange'rous said: This isn't in the "spirit of the game" This is where it all gets a little bit silly! Neither is a goalkeeper, at the opposite end of the pitch, shouting that the referee missed a certain penalty/corner/free-kick. How is it that goalkeeper never gets penalised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 A good question well phrased. It's just become accepted these days. When playing, I appeal. Once dismissed or the moments gone, I drop it. As a referee, I fully expect people to appeal and I accept that, they are entitled to. What I don't accept is continued appeals for the same occurrence, e.g player appeals, I tell him to stop but he continues to appeal/moan etc that is the coming into the realms of dissent. I suppose its a case of referee tolerance and players discipline. I find it funny that I'll call an offside and the goalkeepers/defenders of the opposite team (other side of the pitch) dictate the call, how can they see it from their position? That's players for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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