Standard of refs in ecpl

[B Manning]

Hi Ray, have a good new year and you never know I may catch up with you at some time.

[razor61]

Hi Ray, have a good new year and you never know I may catch up with you at some time.

Same to you Paul! This has been a right saga about the poor old man in the middle and its good to see the likes of you and goodsense, karaoke and smithy giving their points of view. The players and managers have the biggest part to play. Just get on with enjoying the game and playing football and the ref will have an easy time and get no critisism. But you know that players sometimes just want to kick lumps out of each other especially in local derbies and thats when it becomes tough for the ref to handle.

[Dave Deacon]

But you know that players sometimes just want to kick lumps out of each other especially in local derbies and thats when it becomes tough for the ref to handle.

I agree with your idea Ray of everyone getting on and enjoy the game, but something has changed in the last 10/15 years in as much as, players wanted to kick lumps out of each years ago, and probably achieved it, but there wasn't the fuss that there seems to be these days.

Perhaps the "forum" and being able to think and debate the match after playing is one of the problems!

[Silverdogfox]

ECPL yes use of foul/ offensive/ abusive language is a sending off offence no matter how it`s done, we referee`s recently received an e-mail from the FA directing us to enforce that law, so it`s in the hands of the players etc don`t use it and you cannot be sent off for it, simples.

Might I suggest that if the FA have sent that e mail then they could possibly be guilty of bringing the game into disrepute as they allow the players in the western league upwards to use bad language every week - especially in the pro game - eg Premier League

I have witnessed them at western league upwards and if local players behaved in the same way we would have games abandoned every week - that why I agree with several of the posts on here that common sense should be used

If a player or an official of a club swears directly at any of the officials then that should be an automatic red

If done in frustration - not so automatic - but a judgement made as to who could hear it and were they likely to be offended by it. If game attended by two men and a dog - all the sending off would serve is the referee strictly following an Fa directive - Who I believe are not really in touch with the grass roots

[bighairydave]

The directive emailed out was sent by The COUNTY FA not the National FA so applies to SWPL and below not Western League.

[Northernmonkey]

Referee's are like the teachers we had at school. There were;

*Those that were strict... you hated them but you knew where you stood

*Those that had some perdonality.. you liked them and got on with them

*Those that were awful and weak.. everyone took advantage of them!

At the end of the day Cornwall is a small refereeing county. This means the best referees are on the SWP.

This leaves the ECPL with, either:

*New refs who are LEARNING their trade and attempting to move up the ladder

*Old experienced refs who are good but not fit enough to ref a higher standard

*finally those who have found there level

[razor61]

But you know that players sometimes just want to kick lumps out of each other especially in local derbies and thats when it becomes tough for the ref to handle.

I agree with your idea Ray of everyone getting on and enjoy the game, but something has changed in the last 10/15 years in as much as, players wanted to kick lumps out of each years ago, and probably achieved it, but there wasn't the fuss that there seems to be these days.

Perhaps the "forum" and being able to think and debate the match after playing is one of the problems!

A very,very good point Dave!

[THE LYNX AFFECT]

dave and ray the forum is good place to talk about the game we all love.

but there are a few on here who will try and stir things up.

maybe when people come on here slagging people off and not just the referees

the powers of be. can delete the comments so people dont bite to the comments

i know it cant be manned 24/7.

back to the game we all love.

been refereeing 20 years now and i am loving the game more today then i did a few years ago (not cause of the 12 stone weight loss)

i go into every game knowing i will always give 100% TO ENJOY IT

i think i speak on behalf of most of the referees on this forum too.who will do likewise

yes we all have bad days on the field. and a referee will know that.

every referee is different in there way of refereeing

but fellows just remember that referee is not out to ruin YOUR GAME, but to give 22 men a game of football

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL FELLOW REFEREES,, PLAYERS AND MANAGERS. :thumbsup:

[Martin McHugh]

Well said Smithy, love em or hate em, we can't play without em!

MQx

[pointers]

dave and ray the forum is good place to talk about the game we all love.

but there are a few on here who will try and stir things up.

maybe when people come on here slagging people off and not just the referees

the powers of be. can delete the comments so people dont bite to the comments

i know it cant be manned 24/7.

back to the game we all love.

been refereeing 20 years now and i am loving the game more today then i did a few years ago (not cause of the 12 stone weight loss)

i go into every game knowing i will always give 100% TO ENJOY IT

i think i speak on behalf of most of the referees on this forum too.who will do likewise

yes we all have bad days on the field. and a referee will know that.

every referee is different in there way of refereeing

but fellows just remember that referee is not out to ruin YOUR GAME, but to give 22 men a game of football

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL FELLOW REFEREES,, PLAYERS AND MANAGERS. :thumbsup:

Refereeing for 20 years, can I ask why you haven't progressed up through the levels??

[karaoke]

But you know that players sometimes just want to kick lumps out of each other especially in local derbies and thats when it becomes tough for the ref to handle.

I agree with your idea Ray of everyone getting on and enjoy the game, but something has changed in the last 10/15 years in as much as, players wanted to kick lumps out of each years ago, and probably achieved it, but there wasn't the fuss that there seems to be these days.

Perhaps the "forum" and being able to think and debate the match after playing is one of the problems!

Dave I think it is several things like what we see on TV, websites, peoples attitudes in general etc etc. It is not just about the referees, when I was playing I would go anywhere for a game of football and not the money but now there are a lot less teams because of lack of interest. We had good, bad and ugly refs then but would only talk between ourselves after the game and it would be forgotten by Monday. We are still talking about this over a week later

[Ecplapectator]

Cos u lot still get paid at the end of it ur decisions can cost leagues,relegations, cups,and hefty fines but its ok it's forgotten about by the Monday

[karaoke]

Cos u lot still get paid at the end of it ur decisions can cost leagues,relegations, cups,and hefty fines but its ok it's forgotten about by the Monday

What a load of CRAP, I stated when I played the referee was forgotten about by Monday. As far as being paid, after you but kits etc you don't come out with much. An average player in the SWPL would get paid more than any ref including the refs expenses

[B Manning]

pointers, he may well have progressed up the levels, there is a point (well was in my day ) where age catches up with and you go no farther and in that case you return to lower level. it happened to me ( been a referee now for forty years) but when you look at a referee you just do not know his/her experiences. Fact , at one game a player asked me " had I not referee`d adult football before" I restrained myself from a reply.

A little example for you , a good friend of mine`s son started playing at under 10 games, one sunday morning he took his son to the game , the manager asked him to run the line ( he didn`t really want to do it but as no one else was available he did it) now during the game the oppositions parents accused him of just about everything and told him precisely where he should put the flag, need I say anymore on that. But they were not aware of where he was on the saturday , actually he was the senior assistant on the Premiership Arsenal v Spurs, so the point I am trying to make is you just do not know the experience of officials that may be on your game.

[THE LYNX AFFECT]

dave and ray the forum is good place to talk about the game we all love.

but there are a few on here who will try and stir things up.

maybe when people come on here slagging people off and not just the referees

the powers of be. can delete the comments so people dont bite to the comments

i know it cant be manned 24/7.

back to the game we all love.

been refereeing 20 years now and i am loving the game more today then i did a few years ago (not cause of the 12 stone weight loss)

i go into every game knowing i will always give 100% TO ENJOY IT

i think i speak on behalf of most of the referees on this forum too.who will do likewise

yes we all have bad days on the field. and a referee will know that.

every referee is different in there way of refereeing

but fellows just remember that referee is not out to ruin YOUR GAME, but to give 22 men a game of football

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL FELLOW REFEREES,, PLAYERS AND MANAGERS. :thumbsup:

Refereeing for 20 years, can I ask why you haven't progressed up through the levels??

i was a level 4..pointers.

but every season we take a fitness test for this level and above.

the bloke doing it failed me by 1 sec on the sprints.gutted was not the word.

so since then (4 years ago) i was on the pennsula league.

but that is life i dont hold a grudge to this bloke

you got to move on very happy to be refereeing in the ECPL and since the losing all the 12 stone feel fitter then ever

i have been ask to go for my level 4 again but really not sure

was very greatful to tony stead who gave me the chance on the league and my time on here i have really enjoyed..

[St Darren]

How can you expect refs at this level to get things right when the flagship of the fa (Howard Webb) is so shite.

His decisions on Sunday were completely baffling. Then there's lee mason who is shocking all the time!

Refs get a fair bit of stick. Some for no reason but there's normally a reason why someone wishes to give them some sort of abuse. They do get paid for being out in the middle aswell don't forget.

[Northernmonkey]

£26 is not a great amount of money for loads of abuse and aggro.

[St Darren]

I get paid less than £26 for the equivalent time and I get more abuse in my job.

[B Manning]

unitedrhino, i really think you should retract that statement, I have been to several hearings and I would never lie . I am sorry but your post is the biggest load of rubbish I have seen in years,,if as you say that is what you said to the referee then if it had been me I would also have reported your comments. Also the £15 fine does not sound like a fine for using foul/offensive/ abusive language.

[unitedrhino]

That's what the Referee's report said! B Manning

I would have accepted the Fine for not shaking hands, because no matter how good or Bad the Referee is, you must always shake his hand, so i was disappointed in myself that i didn't do this because it something i always do or should i say did.

I wrote a response to the charge and apoligised, but doesn't get away from the Fact some or you Ref's Lie when in the tribunal.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

More and more shite from players and managers, he said this, I sad that, should have had 50 penalties, 3 should have been sent off - crap, get on with it.

The referees on here do not need to defend their actions, nor how they referee. They turn up and do their best at all times, same as the players strangely enough.

Stop watching the TV and all that tripe, it doesn't apply at our level. There was more debate on match of the day about the referees decisions than time spent showing the action - bonkers !

I thought Webb got it right on every one, how the hell is the ref supposed to get it right every time when they're all out to cheat him, and that includes this level and below.

C'mon people give the bloke a chance, support the poor old buggers - lend him your glasses to start with, then he may see what you see.

[karaoke]

More and more shite from players and managers, he said this, I sad that, should have had 50 penalties, 3 should have been sent off - crap, get on with it.

The referees on here do not need to defend their actions, nor how they referee. They turn up and do their best at all times, same as the players strangely enough.

Stop watching the TV and all that tripe, it doesn't apply at our level. There was more debate on match of the day about the referees decisions than time spent showing the action - bonkers !

I thought Webb got it right on every one, how the hell is the ref supposed to get it right every time when they're all out to cheat him, and that includes this level and below.

C'mon people give the bloke a chance, support the poor old buggers - lend him your glasses to start with, then he may see what you see.

A man with sense, Happy New Year

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Same to you K and all referees and players managers - enjoy it, don't destroy it

[mrlaw18]

When we make decisions we are not saying it is correct nor wrong. We are saying 'that is what I believe to have happened'. Players take our decisions to personally. Why is it hat a player always complains when a mistake goes against them and not when it goes for them? Do you ever hear referees comment on players performances?

Also just because we get our expenses paid is no excuse for the abuse. If this was the case then that gives the referee permission to reciprocate the abuse back at players who are being paid.

[Undertaker]

Maybe this weekend referees should after their games come on here and tell the forum what player / manager were crap and then we could all discuss them and how poor their teams and standard of football are .

[B Manning]

Undertaker, that sounds a brilliant idea, but that`s what it will have to stay, as referee`s it`s not something we would do or even contemplate doing, hence it`s why you never see a referee on here slagging off people.

[Undertaker]

just to see the shoe on the other foot .. mmmmmmmmmmmmm how would they take it not well I reckon ha ha ha , of cause they would say blah blah blah its wrong for refs to have an opinion .

[unitedrhino]

I thought Referee's were there to apply the Laws of the Game.

The Ref's Job isn't easy and they will never win, but please sometimes don't defend the poor Performances

Happy New Year to all.

[Undertaker]

Well let them apply the laws and leave them alone .

[unitedrhino]

Undertaker it's the Association of Football Rules, not i am in Black and can act and do what i want Laws - Dickhead

[Chris Davey]

Maybe this weekend referees should after their games come on here and tell the forum what player / manager were crap and then we could all discuss them and how poor their teams and standard of football are .

If all Referee's are going to start feeding back on players performances on the forum then I think I will retire!

My opinion, for what it's worth, (and I've given refs my fair share of my views over the last 25 years!) is that 2 way communication is the key to a good relationship between the man in the middle and players/managers. I have never met a referee who has deliberately set out to ruin a game and the majority do a fantastic job.

I have been fortunate enough over the years to have been refereed by most of the refs on this thread and the major qualities that they all have are excellent communication and man management skills. Do they get every decision right - no. Do players make every pass/tackle/header etc every time - no. However the refs on here will manage the situation by explaining their decision if appropriate to do so and players accept what they say. What really enhances a game for me is the banter I can have with a referee, this adds to the enjoyment I get from a leisure time activity, however I understand that not all refs want this.

I strongly believe that we all (players/managers/committee members/supporters etc) have a responsibility to ensure that we retain the refs we have and therefore encourage new ones to take up the whistle - referees are there to enjoy the game as well! The FA should set an example at the highest level and this will help - how long would it take the top managers to pull their players into line if they got a straight red for effing at a refereeing and then missed the next 3 matches? Not long in my opinion! Also managers have to take ownership of their conduct to the officials at the top level - I know it is a highly pressurised environment where they can lose their jobs at a drop of a hat, but they should all understand the impact their behaviour can have throughout football, right down to the grass roots. The eventual knock on effect down to youth football would be beneficial for all to see.

An idea that could work would be at the start of a season have a meeting/seminar where referees meet with the managers, team captains and a club official from every club. The law changes and new initiatives for the season could be discussed and highlighted, ensuring there are no grey areas. How the relationships between all parties could be developed should be discussed and maybe a newsletter issued quarterly to show the progress e.g. a disciplinary table. If a team chose not to send representatives they could be charged more for referees throughout the season or fined? These are obviously just ideas and I have no idea how practical they would be to implement!

Happy New Year to all football people, players, referees (and assistants) , managers, committee members, groundsmen, supporters, tea ladies, fund raisers, volunteers - anyone involved in the game.

[Halfback]

As an ex player and a ref in junior football, like most players, always found it too easy to blame the ref,, common guys, its not easy in the middle, we are never right. A Ref in junior leagues was lucky if he had a linesman. I never had much of a problem with swearing, just a word with the skippers before kick off would usually be enough, but times do change, It was Twenty Five years ago I was last in the middle,,, Even then, swearing was foul and abusive language, a sending off offence. I have to admit, I tended to use my own common sense, how any swearing was directed,,, As for all you players coming to your end of playing, why don't you give it a go, football is short of refs. That chap in black still enjoys the game, maybe not always able to play,, but is still involved in the game, he does,nt need to have a load of hassle aimed at him on a Saturday night when he has to right reports about red or yellow cards he has issued. Lets face it guys, he dos,nt have to do it,,, the game would be much worse off without them, Happy New Year to you all,,

[Ecplapectator]

Told a Ref after the Game a couple of weeks ago that i wouldn't be shaking his hand because he had a very poor game, we should have had 2 Pens and they should have been down to 9 men. Make sure you swop shirts with the No 5 because you did everything he asked for.

Never swore or raised my Voice. Report goes in Bad Language and swearing at him. Complete and utter Lie.

Outcome £15 Fine + £10 Admin Fee.

The funniest thing about it was there was a Referee assessor there and he said he was poor and we should have had two Pens.

No Sorry from the CCFA for his poor performance, no Letter from the Referee Boss to say Sorry for his performance.

They Lie most of the Times at Hearings, because they can

Most Referee's are a Law until themselves, they are bigger then the game and nothing ever happens when they have poor performances.

Players get dropped and Managers get the Sack. but Poor Referee's still get Paid

Obviously there are still some excellent Referee's around, but are far outweighed by the Poor One's

totally agree

[Ecplapectator]

More and more shite from players and managers, he said this, I sad that, should have had 50 penalties, 3 should have been sent off - crap, get on with it.

The referees on here do not need to defend their actions, nor how they referee. They turn up and do their best at all times, same as the players strangely enough.

Stop watching the TV and all that tripe, it doesn't apply at our level. There was more debate on match of the day about the referees decisions than time spent showing the action - bonkers !

I thought Webb got it right on every one, how the hell is the ref supposed to get it right every time when they're all out to cheat him, and that includes this level and below.

C'mon people give the bloke a chance, support the poor old buggers - lend him your glasses to start with, then he may see what you see.

doesnt apply at our level ur ridiculous the rules are the same no matter what level u play at prem or pnd the laws are the same

[SteveG]

Told a Ref after the Game a couple of weeks ago that i wouldn't be shaking his hand because he had a very poor game, we should have had 2 Pens and they should have been down to 9 men. Make sure you swop shirts with the No 5 because you did everything he asked for.

Never swore or raised my Voice. Report goes in Bad Language and swearing at him. Complete and utter Lie.

Outcome £15 Fine + £10 Admin Fee.

The funniest thing about it was there was a Referee assessor there and he said he was poor and we should have had two Pens.

No Sorry from the CCFA for his poor performance, no Letter from the Referee Boss to say Sorry for his performance.

They Lie most of the Times at Hearings, because they can

Most Referee's are a Law until themselves, they are bigger then the game and nothing ever happens when they have poor performances.

Players get dropped and Managers get the Sack. but Poor Referee's still get Paid

Obviously there are still some excellent Referee's around, but are far outweighed by the Poor One's

My sympathy is with the referee. Regardless of whether or not he made any mistakes, the man is doing his very best and it is bloody awful bad manners to refuse to shake his hand.

Perhaps you might consider taking up the whistle yourself?

[unitedrhino]

Steve G - You are correct Bad Manners not to shake hands, i hopefully put right by a letter of apology.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Back of the papers again today, shoot the ref, hang him, quarter him - bollocks. More about his decisions than the game, same on TV, trial by television and the pundits.

Lets settle it by the pundits and armchair experts having a button to vote on every decision, referee by camera, yeah ?

Should only take about 4 hours per match - bit like American football, that would be really exciting.

[Deadcert]

More to the point are the players in this league up to the standard of the referees? I think not mickey mouse lge filled with junior players who are simply not good enough . As I said before scrap east/ west peninsula it will fill combo aNd ecpl lges with better players and also boost junior lges get back on the map. It will also stop junior players slagging of refs as they won't be playing above themselves

[B Manning]

mmm, the only small problem is that it`s not just junior footballers who slag off the referee`s.

[THE LYNX AFFECT]

honestly can we just stop NOW.. i think enough as been said on the subject??..DONT YOU??

At the end of the day it boilds down to how everyone sees the game..

and that is why we love this game we all take part in :thumbsup:

[karaoke]

At the end of the day..................................................................it gets dark

[razor61]

At the end of the day..................................................................it gets dark

Amen!!

[humf]

After reading all the statuses on here,must just say ECPL please put your referee kit back on.At last a person who knows how to ref with COMMON SENSE.Sadly a lot of the referees on here do not have have that ability and that is the problem we have today.Personally I would say a bad tackle is a lot worse than swearing,but unfortunately people like B Manning and Goodsense don t see it that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also may I add players play for the love of the game,pay their subs maybe at this standard?????? there is always going to be confrontation,which maybe is natural in competition at this standard????.All I would like to say referees do get paid (and sometimes quite well) at this standard.Would they do the job if they were not getting paid ????? like the players ??.Just asking the question ???

[bighairydave]

I love how so many people say that referees are paid a lot of money! £27 for a game, where some days you can leave at 1pm and arrive home at 5.30-6. So 5 hours work at £5.40 an hour (below minimum wage) sounds like a lot of money! Out of that they then have to pay for washing, kit, and the time to do post match administration. I think the fees are small compensations for the trials and tribulations of a referee!

[B Manning]

humf, I am pretty sure that myself and goodsense are far more experienced referee`s than you give us credit for and reading ECPL`s post`s i get the impression more experienced than him, I stand to be corrected on that of course.

[Guest]

You are indeed, but it don't make you right.

[B Manning]

it does not make me wrong either.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

To all the referees, don't answer any of the nonsense that people put on here regarding refereeing standards, it just fuels the trolls !!!!

Pellegrini said it today, the players cheat, giving you no chance. From the top to the bottom, and this level is the bottom.

[stevieb]

another thread bashing the refs getting tiresome now , same old they are paid cant talk to them no banter , ref freindlly with opposition no common sense bla blah blah , refs lino call them what you want are human like the players every one has an off day be at work at play or in family life .even top class refs make mistakes at epl level and these games have every mistake pulled apart by the so called experts on motd or sky ,so now the armchair fans see this and the in thing at present blame the ref . if any of us for instance were out having a drink would we be putting up the language dished out to officials and turn the other cheek ? i doubt it . the game has changed for the worst over the last twenty years at local level be it with quality of players and attitude of players towards officials , to many scream as if being shot when tackled and roll around as if there is a serious injury to gain a free kick or to get an opponent booked or sent off it is cheating plain and simple , in the old days players would hide their pain as not to show they were hurt as it was classed as weakness and to try and kid the other team you were stronger in body and mind and would not give any ground or concede any as well , players badger the ref over the slightest infringement now and the language directed at him is a disgrace and when they get the foul by hook or by crook how pleased they are is this right ?

guys yes lots of teams at our level pay subs and the refs get money for the game but they deserve it for two hours on a sat to put up with moaning . diving swearing , if you want to change the way you are reffed perhaps look within your own clubs at players management , and supporters do you show respect to the refs? before during and after the game. at the combo league level i have seen the respect signs all over changing rooms club house ect but then the teams go out and harrass the ref for the next two hours is this the right way , i have witnissed this 1st hand as a club lino with some things directed at myself which would not be tolerated outside the football world and some would end up in court for saying or actions and no i dont get paid for it i try to put something back into the game that i am no longer able to play as age caught up with me , but i have a few times seriously thought about packing it in as the abuse is not right and then after the game the same players want to shake your hand and say well done unbelievable , players managers if you want to be treated as adults try acting like it you never know you might end up liling yourself and the refs , keep bashing guys as in a minute there will be no refs left and then what will you all do

[Dave Deacon]

I'm told this thread is getting tiring, and so no one will mind that I've locked it