Sandgrownun Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I would be grateful if somebody could clarify the ruling on encroachment when a penalty is taken. During the Culdrose V Mawnan game on saturday a penalty was given to Culdrose which they scored from, however the ref gave a free kick to Mawnan due to players encroachment into the box. It was always my understanding that the kick should be retaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 ha ha, thats brilliant!! you sure it was for that? In my opinion if the ball is in the back of the net it doesn't matter because the players coming in would make no difference at all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 In the incident posted correct decision would be to caution the Culdrose player for encroachment and retake the penalty kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Referee Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I HAVE GOT THIS ONE WRONG IN THE PAST SO IT MUST BE AN EASY MISTAKE TO MAKE. IF THE BLUES HAVE A PENALTY AND SCORE FROM IT WHILST THEIR PLAYERS, OR PLAYERS FROM BOTH SIDES SIMULTANEOUSLY,ARE ENCROACHING THEN IT IS A RETAKE. IF THE BLUES SCORE FROM THE PENALTY AND PLAYERS FROM THE RED TEAM ENCROACH THEN THE GOAL STANDS. HERE'S THE DIFFICULT BIT..... IF THE BLUES MISS THE PENALTY WITH REDS, OR REDS AND BLUES, ENCROACHING OR THE GOALKEEPER OFF HIS LINE THEN IT IS A RETAKE. IF THE BLUES MISS THE PENALTY BUT ENCROACHMENT IS FROM ONLY PLAYERS FROM THE BLUE TEAM THEN PLAY IS RESTARTED WITH AN INDIRECT FREE KICK TO THE REDS FROM WHERE THE ENCROACHMENT TOOK PLACE (WHERE THE ENCROACHING BLUE PLAYER WAS WHEN THE KICK WAS TAKEN). THERE NOW, THAT SHOULD HAVE CLEARED IT UP FOR YOU AND MADE PERFECT SENSE TO EVERYONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Was it a penalty in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandgrownun Posted September 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Probably not, but thats not the point. After the game I approached the ref for an explanation and he said that in his opinion giving a retake would be giving Culdrose an advantage which he didn't think was fair. So basically he was making his own rules up. He did say that if he was wrong he apologised, not much good to us though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairman Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Suppose they were in Green? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Roberts Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 St. Darren I find it rather interesting that elsewhere you talk about being able to take only so much "shite" refereeing; now had you been the referee in this game referred to here and made the decision that you have advocated, would that have amounted to shite as well? Clearly, it's not easy being a referee when having to make the decisions, even when your sat at a computer, is it? Period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Not quite sure what you mean Dobby!! my comment saying "was it a penalty though" was merely tongue in cheek. Ref's can take so much shite, I dish it out enough if I feel justified in doing so. I have to admit I didn't know that in this case then a free kick could be awarded to the other side. In my opinion though, if a pen is taken and ends up in the back of the net, what difference has any encroachment made? same as if the keeper moves off his line and it ends up in the net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whuru Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Another one to be cleared up please, if the ball is going out of play, and it would have been throw to us, but the ball hits the linesmans flag who was standing on the touchline and stays in play should it have been a drop ball for encroachment onto the pitch by the linesman or a throw because the ball was going out or a drop ball or carry on ? Mousehole carried on and broke away to score !!!!!!! Just want it cleared up, not that it would have affected the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 If the ball hits the referee or an assistant and the ball stays in play then it is play on as they are all part of "the field of play". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Linesman isn't part of the field of play, he's off the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldasitgets Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Ref's can take so much shite, I dish it out enough if I feel justified in doing so. I have to admit I didn't know that in this case then a free kick could be awarded to the other side. In my opinion though, if a pen is taken and ends up in the back of the net, what difference has any encroachment made? same as if the keeper moves off his line and it ends up in the net 1. You "dish it out if I feel justified in doing so" . Well now I see why referees are in short supply. They get crap from arrogant gits if they make a mistake. The guy is an "arbiter" not GOD. Clubs pay the referee to make the best decision he can. NOT to be right. You hope he's fair but it must be difficult to keep impartial if one side is "dishing out the shite"! 2. In your opinion the blues encroach and break the rules. But, as it didn't make any difference, it doesn't matter. That's a dangerous way to go! The linesman's flag question. The referee is part of the pitch so if the ball strikes him, play just carries on. (see the lovely Jack Rosenthal play, where the referee gets tired of all the crap, heads in a cross and promptly awards a goal.) So, I would assume that so is the referee's assistant. In the Moushole case, that makes the referee absolutely correct. May be wrong. Not a referee myself. Too much shite from players. In the first post. I feel the referee was spot on to say that if he got it wrong, he apologises. He had to make a decision and if he can't just remember the detail of the Law, who's there to help him? I'd guess each team might just give him a different answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Bill, we had a referee last year at Mawnan who gave a goal that he said crossed the line, he was standing on the edge of the penalty area, he got a rocket load of abuse from me (manager at the time) and players, and rightly so, it was impossible for him to have given that decision, and if Damien Stevens is reading this post he will back me up on it. I know they take a lot of crap off some of us players, arrogant is a bit strong to use at the level that I play at thats for sure. The frustrating thing for me as a Junior player is that Senior players can get away with saying a lot more to referees, so where's the consistency in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Postie Pidge Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I was at a game where the ball was easily rolling out of play and the club linesman stopped it before it crossed the line and the referee awarded a drop ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Damian Stevens Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Yes Darren i can definately back you up , never a goal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Linesman isn't part of the field of play, he's off the pitch But in the example given he is on the field of play so he is considered to be part of the field of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 hairy, yeah, thats true! book the lino for encroaching onto the field of play. I suppose if that is the case and he was on the pitch then, Play On is the only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldasitgets Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Bill, we had a referee last year at Mawnan who gave a goal that he said crossed the line, he was standing on the edge of the penalty area, he got a rocket load of abuse from me (manager at the time) and players, and rightly so, it was impossible for him to have given that decision, and if Damien Stevens is reading this post he will back me up on it. I know they take a lot of crap off some of us players, arrogant is a bit strong to use at the level that I play at thats for sure. The frustrating thing for me as a Junior player is that Senior players can get away with saying a lot more to referees, so where's the consistency in that. I do remember a game where the ref gave a goal in a similar situation. I think it was Derek Sparks. When asked afterwards, and all had calmed down, he said that he looked the faces of the defenders who were stood on the line. He was, of course, spot on. (I was one of those defenders) And he got all sorts of crap from our management. He's on his own. He has to make a decision on the balance of what he sees. Of course, he couldn't see that the ball had crossed the line and the club lino wouldn't have given it (Though I saw Three given against their own clubs last season - Sunday League!) so he had to work on balance of probabilities. It ain't Match of the Day with 450 cameras. It is, of course disgraceful that senior players get away with the backchat and abuse they give. I've had a an incident in the Sunday league where the club said that their players knew how to treat referees (ie badly) as they had played senior football! I do apologise for using the word arrogant. Ignorant, rude and unsporting would all have been more apposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 yeah, thats fair enough Bill, all those words can describe a lot of us. All I'm saying is that some referee's set themselves up for the abuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sport Lover Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I umpire hockey ST Darren if you gave me a load of abuse for making the wrong descision I would still send you off and you would get banned minimum 30 days. You would learn a bit of respect then :-) When are football players going to learn to respect the officials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldasitgets Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Linesman isn't part of the field of play, he's off the pitch But in the example given he is on the field of play so he is considered to be part of the field of play. The lino can actually be about a foot outside the field of play and still stop "all of the ball crossing all of the line". Just to be pedantic. (Not sure what the diameter of a football- don't have one handy, but it must be about a foot. Some other pedant will tell us.) I still think he would count as "part of the field of play". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Linesman isn't part of the field of play, he's off the pitch But in the example given he is on the field of play so he is considered to be part of the field of play. The lino can actually be about a foot outside the field of play and still stop "all of the ball crossing all of the line". Just to be pedantic. (Not sure what the diameter of a football- don't have one handy, but it must be about a foot. Some other pedant will tell us.) I still think he would count as "part of the field of play". thats what i was tryin to say really. as long as part of him is near enough to the line to stop the ball crossing it we play on. not that i expect it happens very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 The ball has to have a circumference of between 27 and 28 inches, and i'm sure as you all know the whole of the ball has to be over the line before the balls classed as being outta play. I don't know why your all starting on the lines person for being on the line and stopping the ball going outta play, why don't you nag at the managers, subs and other people who stand on the bloody line getting in the way of the lineo :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 That is quite annoyin. and if one person goes forward eberyone else follows. so annoyin when u have no barriers to keep everyone out the way. and even more annoying when they ignore u!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I've found a great way to get them off of my line now. Its quiet evil and gonna hurt them more then it hurts me, :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 As the Culdrose Manager it was hard to take at the time, however, I agree that in all fairness it was probably not a penalty in the first place. The most frustrating part is that we were unfortunately the recipients of exactly the same mistake the season before last! On that occasion we were 1-0 down to Mullion and lost the game by that scoreline. The Referee on the first occasion was very good to his word and phoned to apologise for his mis-interpretation of the rule. We also got clarification from the F.A at the time regarding LAW 14 - Penalty Kicks! Aside from this isolated error the referee had a good game on Saturday, having been out with a lengthy injury. It is very easy for both sides to dispute the initial decision and the resulting misinterpretation and frustration was obviously evident at the time. As most people would agree these things even themselves out over a season and having always been a passionate player and now manager I am as guilty as the next bloke for saying things in the heat of the moment. If it wasn't for these fellas competitive football would not exist and I congratulate the Ref on returning to the game when he could so easily have called it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldasitgets Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 The ball has to have a circumference of between 27 and 28 inches, why don't you nag at the managers, subs and other people who stand on the bloody line getting in the way of the lineo So that's a diameter of 9 inches. Looks bigger than that from memory. But then, that's the case with lots of things. We never have a problem with spectators getting in the way. He always sits quietly on the seat near the half way line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Good job I don't play hockey then isn't it Sport Lover? As I've said before, in football its interpretation of the laws, in other sports they're clearly laid out and therefore hard to argue with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mike Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 darren they would never let u loose with a stick! far to dangerous! at least when u play football its just slide tackles u have to watch out for from u!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I'm like a wing wizard - a gazelle - nowadays!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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