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Promotion to combo


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Quote from this weeks falmouth packet:

"Ludgvan have secured second place in the Trelawney Premier division with a 4-1 away win at St Buryan. The result could see them promoted back to the Jollys Combination League.However,Trelawney officials said this will be decided at a meeting held between the Combination league and the Trelawney league officials in June."

Can anyone explain why there is any decision to be made?

Surely if you finish in a promotion place and your ground meets the criteria needed (which Ludgvans does as they were in the league last season) you should be promoted.

It's about time these promotions/relegations were made crystal clear throughout all leagues so you can either celebrate your promotion or be saddened by being relegated at the time of it happening.

any thoughts??????

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Skippy

Thats seems quite (not) fair,

a manager spends all season fielding a good team comes runner up SHOULD be promoted but officials say no lets decrease the number of teams in the league or you have to stay put as we only have 12 teams in the league you should be promoted from.

Let,s hope that Culdrose don,t find themselves in a similar situation.

Common sense should prevail, if you are teams short then only relegate as many as you need to, to allow those in promotion places their chance to go up. Not rocket science is it?

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so is it only penzance that will be relegated to make the combo 20 teams.

surely this will sort it's self out in the next couple of seasons once the trelawney league has settled down and sorted out it's teething problems,

i still feel that grounds/facilities permitting all teams should be promoted,otherwise what is the point of entering a league or even kicking a ball.

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Well put postman pat, as I said everything should be crystal clear before the start of the season.I can understand a club that cannot reach the criteria for senior football but both Goonhavern and Ludgvan have already being there.Same thing goes for promotion in Trelawney league IF teams for whatever reason withdraw then you should only relegate enough teams to allow the three teams in a promotion place the right to come up. In previous years in the old Fal/Hel league they would still relegate three teams even if they were two short in the first place, and promote five, this was decided on the night, and if like myself you question the decision you are told it should be put in writing before the 1st of march so that it can be discussed at the AGM, but if you don,t know whats happening you cant put it in writing in the first place???????

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Much as I would love to see Penzance retain a place in the Combination League, I cannot see how that would be possible. According to "the rules" there is no reason why either Goonhavern or Ludgvan should not be promoted and whether the Combo has 19 or 20 teams next season, the team finishing bottom this season - Penzance - should be relegated! Mullion or Holman's would be saved from a similar fate if the League reverts to 20 teams - which I believe it should because last seasons reduction to 19 was not achieved "lawfully".

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Much as I would love to see Penzance retain a place in the Combination League, I cannot see how that would be possible. According to "the rules" there is no reason why either Goonhavern or Ludgvan should not be promoted and whether the Combo has 19 or 20 teams next season, the team finishing bottom this season - Penzance - should be relegated! Mullion or Holman's would be saved from a similar fate if the League reverts to 20 teams - which I believe it should because last seasons reduction to 19 was not achieved "lawfully".

If not achieved lawfully does that mean that Ludgvan should not have been relegated in the first place

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Guest Monty

Surely is does not matter whether the league has 20,22,18 teams etc they are all going to play every weekend, Plus if a second place has a desire to be promoted and everything else fits the bill then promote them.

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Kevin that's what John is trying to say regarding the AGM. As most people are aware rules passed at the Combo AGM do not take effect until 12 months later. In 2010 a rule change was proposed to drop the league from 20 to 18 sides. This proposal was defeated in a vote meaning that the league maximum remained at 20. 12 months later the bottom 2 sides were Ludgvan and Holmans. Falmouth athletic were the only side who applied and met the criteria for promotion by finishing in the top 3 and were promoted goonhavern and mousehole finished outside the top 3 of their respective league. Where things become a little bit blurred is that Helston applied and met the criteria for the SWPL and were promoted this left the combo one short.

Some people would say Ludgvan probably should not have been relegated last season because Falmouth effectively replaced Helston and no other junior side could be promoted as they didn't finish high enough however it was decided by the league management commitee to relegate Ludgvan and reduce the league to 19 that is probably why john has used the phrase "not achieved lawfully". At the AGM 12 months ago their was NO proposed rule change to reduce the league so the maximum for the forthcoming season will be 20.

This year goonhavern and Ludgvan who are both ex senior clubs have met the criteria required the bun fight will be does the league remain at 19 or go back up to 20 unfortunately by finishing bottom It is a pretty sure bet that Penzance will line up in the Trelawny Premier next season which is an excellent competitive league but a real shame to lose a club with the history, ground and set up that they have. Personally I am hoping that ourselves or Mullion will gain a reprieve and the league will go back to 20. I have been told that the league is going through the correct channels and have contacted the CCFA for some guidance in an official capacity on the outcome of remaining at 19 or going back to 20......I think by by the end of the month either myself or Dave at Mullion will have been notified by the league the outcome depending on which one of our clubs is in the bottom 2. Obviously if I hear any gossip or info I will pst it here......Dave is actually older then father Christmas so any info he gets will be sent in morse code or carrier pigeon!!!, :)

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Based on your last post then Neil, the league should still be running at 20.

I think alot of mix up's throughout leagues is when a club withdraws,if league rules are bottom 2 clubs (or in some leagues bottom 3 clubs)are to be relegated,then a team withdraws this should grant the highest place team in the relegation zone a reprieve,or if a team is promoted and no team comes down then again a reprieve for the club highest in the relegation zone.You have been to the same meetings as I have when one or two clubs have withdrawn and the league still wants "as by league rules" to relegate the bottom 3 and promote five, even though two of the teams to be promoted are not even in a promotion place and in the case of the relegated teams after leaving the AGM there are say 16 teams at the end of the season, 2 teams have withdrawn leaving 14 teams only 1 team should be relegated and 3 teams promoted.

Going back to my original post whether there are to be 19 or 20 teams Ludgvan should not be effected and their promotion should,nt be up for discussion.

I for one don,t want Mullion or Holmans relegated as I know how difficult the climb back up is. I think that if no-one has put in to the AGM a proposal to reduce the league to 18 for next season then this would be very difficult to do in the future as the Trelawney league has only 12 teams this year when it should be back to running at full capacity next season and to relegate 4 with only 2 promotions or a year with 2 relegations and no promotions would be a hard route to take.

Will be watching for the St Just v Mullions result best of luck to you and Mullion

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While there is an arrangement between the Combo and Trelawney Leagues regarding promotion & relegation, this amounts to a maximum of two up and two down. Under the current arrangement and the Rules of the Combination League, three (or more) teams cannot be relegated! Furthermore, unless the Combo Rules are changed, it is not possible to reduce the number of teams playing in the league unless a team withdraws or a team is expelled for disciplinary reasons!

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What is the "arrangement"? And with the two up two down scenario surely "Criteria" permitting the top two teams are guaranteed promotion? Therefore why is there a need for a discussion between the two leagues?,should Ludgvan have to wait till june before knowing their destiny?

I can only have a guess why this a grey area!

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While there is an arrangement between the Combo and Trelawney Leagues regarding promotion & relegation, this amounts to a maximum of two up and two down. Under the current arrangement and the Rules of the Combination League, three (or more) teams cannot be relegated! Furthermore, unless the Combo Rules are changed, it is not possible to reduce the number of teams playing in the league unless a team withdraws or a team is expelled for disciplinary reasons!

John when Helston went up to the swpl does that count as a promotion or did Helston withdraw to enter the swpl? If a withdrawal then that would explain the 19 teams this year as athletic replaced ludgvan. What's not clear in the rules is if the league is operating at a reduced number and how the balance to a full compliment is restored the following season

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Hi Neil I would have thought that Helston would have had to apply for promotion to the swpl,then would have had to finish in a top 3 position,therefore it would have had to count as promotion and not withdrawal.

To clear everything up I think that this year only 1 team should be relegated with two promoted, then a notice of intention to reduce the number of teams should be presented to all teams within the league and a vote should take place at the AGM.If it is decided that the league is to be reduced this could be done over a couple of seasons when the Trelawney league promotion places are occupied by teams that may already have their first team in the combo league or cannot meet the criteria so two would still be relegated and 1 poss 0 would gain promotion

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I have suggested in writing to the Combination League that only one team should be relegated in order to restore the league to the 20 teams which should have been there this season; they have asked the CCFA for their opinion on the issue. Unless someone has already proposed a Rule change, there can be no proposal to change the numbers at this year's AGM.

Think also of the knock-on effect there would be on Clubs near the bottom of Trelawney Premier and all divisions below, if more teams were relegated from Combo than were promoted from Trelawney! I don't think teams in the Trelawney League would take kindly to being relegated just to enable the Combo to reduce the number of teams.

The current promotion/relegation provision between the two leagues is quite straight forward and transparent, with no need for a joint meeting to decide anything. The only issue which needs to be sorted is how many teams there should be in the Combo next season!

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Hi Neil I would have thought that Helston would have had to apply for promotion to the swpl,then would have had to finish in a top 3 position,therefore it would have had to count as promotion and not withdrawal.

To clear everything up I think that this year only 1 team should be relegated with two promoted, then a notice of intention to reduce the number of teams should be presented to all teams within the league and a vote should take place at the AGM.If it is decided that the league is to be reduced this could be done over a couple of seasons when the Trelawney league promotion places are occupied by teams that may already have their first team in the combo league or cannot meet the criteria so two would still be relegated and 1 poss 0 would gain promotion

As far as I am aware, we at Helston had to serve notice to the Combo League that they wish to "quit" the league in order to enter the SWPL - Helston wanted to retain their combo status but were not allowed to - we wanted a reserve side as close in standard to the first team as possible but because of the debacle of the trelawney team numbers in each of their divisions the 2 sides at Helston were further apart than they deserved and got shouted down at the league meeting. All we got told is rules rules rules but surprise surprise looks like it is all change again for next season.

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I see what you mean in your last post John, what I actually meant was that if the Trelawney lge was made aware that over the next couple of seasons that the combo was going to reduce in numbers having only twelve teams at the moment in their premier div, a couple of places could be left open to take the relegated teams over the two season period of reduction without disrupting their pro/rel system in lower divs

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it seems to me that the trelawny league in its infant period has experienced a few problems which has been aired on this forum, the combo league is always been a bit hush hush.when there is a problem, say with the trelawny league people come on here and say go to the AGM and air your views, but people still dont know know what is what and who is what, what we could do with is an open forum with say an official from both leagues so we can leave questions that can be answered.in respect to ludgvan, they should be promoted as they have finished in the top 2 of the trelawny league, its not their fault that helston withdrew last year or were promoted.the trelawny league was 4 years (i think) int the making, thats a long time to sort out promotion and relegation.what do ludgvan do now try and attract players to play junior football at the highest level or attract players to play senior football.i wouldnt want to sign for as they are neither here nor there until JUNE.pre season in july.we will be back next year with same argument again im sure, oh and st darren, yeah i can see penzance reserves staying in the combo, goonhavern up and theres your 20.

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As I thought I'd explained, there is no debate about Goonhavern & Ludgvan being promoted - they will both be in the Combination League next season - or Penzance being relegated - they will be in the Trelawney League. The only issue to be sorted is if the team finishing 18th will also be relegated to the Trelawney League or if they will be "saved" by the number of teams in the Combo reverting to 20 next season. This does need to be resolved as soon as possible so that Mullion or Holmans are aware of their fate.

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yeah john i agree, but dont ludgvan have to wait until june to find out what their fate is, i think its a bit poor, the league are quick to act when a team does wrong and they have to deduct points etc, so why a delay now.they have had 8 to 9 months of the playing season plus the previous set up years, if i was a official at ludgvan, holmans or mullion i wouldnt be best please.i hope all is done fairly and then rules are made open to the public so when the first ball is kicked in august everyone knows where everyone is standing,subject to facilities etc

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I thought the Evo-Stik NPL was confusing with it's relegation and promotion. It's been quite a few years since it was straight forward and teams could plan for next season. As many have already said, if your ground is up to the right standard, you should take the promotion or go elsewhere.

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juechorley, welcome to the world of the ccfa, combination league and the state of cornish football

Erm, thanks. I think. :D

Just be greatful that the leagues down here don't get lumbered with ex-league clubs or big non-league clubs. We've had to compete with the likes of Telford, Fleetwood, Halifax, Chester and soon to be Darlington. I won't include FC United in that as they started in the correct way, right down at the bottom.

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Think also of the knock-on effect there would be on Clubs near the bottom of Trelawney Premier and all divisions below, if more teams were relegated from Combo than were promoted from Trelawney! I don't think teams in the Trelawney League would take kindly to being relegated just to enable the Combo to reduce the number of teams.

With only 12 sides in Trelawny Premier I don't think they will be too worried about an extra team relegated from the Combo. I'd support 2 up / 2 down. 36 league fixtures is more than any league at this level in all of UK. Considering the lack of floodlit pitches, restrictions due to cricket, cups etc some sides will be playing 3 games a week in April / May if we revert to 20.

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juechorley, welcome to the world of the ccfa, combination league and the state of cornish football

Erm, thanks. I think. :D

Just be greatful that the leagues down here don't get lumbered with ex-league clubs or big non-league clubs. We've had to compete with the likes of Telford, Fleetwood, Halifax, Chester and soon to be Darlington. I won't include FC United in that as they started in the correct way, right down at the bottom.

we will have truro city soon, ok not a league club but near enough
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Just because the constitution of a league has a maximum of 20 clubs, it does not automatically follow that the league actually has to have that many clubs.

I believe the Western League has a consitution stating a maximum of 44 clubs (i.e. 2x22) but the last time it actually contained that many teams was in 2006-07.

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